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He's not the best ever but he's a young guy who still has considerable potential.
While I believe a guy can improve his ability to catch the ball by doing some training drills... very good catchers of the football look natural doing it, like its second nature to them.. Greg Little has always looked awkward and uncomfortable catching the football, like it is really something he has to think about...
That is why I think he catches it better (ala Braylon Edwards) when he is in traffic.. because then he doesn't think, he just uses his natural athletic ability.. but he drops the easier ones because he DOES have time to think...
I honestly wonder if the drops early in his career really got stuck in his head... because he just looks anxious and awkward trying to catch a simple slant route...
And I'm not sure what it will take to overcome that.
yebat' Putin
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He just needs to get his head back in the game like he had it at the end of last season.
if he did that we wouldn't have to wait for him to gain 20 lbs. 
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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Someone just needs to point out to him that whether he is here, or if he gets traded... if he wants to keep working in this league, he needs to have his 'A Game' with him every week, every snap.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Is anyone else ready to consider Greg Little a bust yet?
No.
Beat me to it.
Imo, going on last years 2nd half and this years first 2 games..............
No doubt he's not a #1 Wr. In this years first 2 games and going against, for the most part teams #1 CB's, he wore them "like a blanket"! 
As the #2 WR during last years 2nd half of the season and being covered by, again for the most part, teams #2 CB's he seemed to step up his game. Most fans, including me, were pleasantly surprised at his turnaround.
This past Sunday vs the Vikes and with Gordon on the field getting most of the DB's attention he seemed to be more at ease/more of a contributor. With Bess as the #2 I think it did/it will def help Little.
He just needs to keep Alonzo Mourning on speed dial.
Let this sink in..... On 12-31-23 it be will 123123.
On the flip side, you can tune a piano but you can't tune-a-fish.
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Legend
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Wes Welker had 3 drops in the last game I watched, actually they were highlighted in a game review. Should we consider him a bust?
I can't believe how there's not a single player that comes and goes from this team that this board can agree is any good. Except Joe Thomas, and Joe Haden, hmm. I wonder if anybody, anybody can retire a Cleveland Brown. If Phil Dawson couldn't do it, if Josh Cribbs couldn't, can anybody.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Wes Welker had 3 drops in the last game I watched, actually they were highlighted in a game review. Should we consider him a bust?
Are you really comparing the two? You are aware of everything Welker HAS accomplished in the league already, right?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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LOL you ain't wrong. Get back to us when Welker leads the league in drops As for Little. Average, and trending average.
#gmstrong
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Using the scale:
Above NFL avg
NFL avg
Below NFL avg
I have him as a below.
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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I'm not ready to call him a bust...yet.
I would like to see him line up as a TE though. RB to TE seems like a more natural change for many guys.
He's got the height and looks like he could gain some weight on his frame. He's a very good blocker...he would be a match up nightmare for LB & S.
I know the dropsies are his issue and TEs who can't catch, darn well better be great blockers...but maybe his dropsies improve when lesser coverage-defenders are guarding him?
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Using the scale:
Above NFL avg
NFL avg
Below NFL avg
I have him as a below.
You have to at this point. That's not to say it can't change, but what has he given us? Not much.
There's no excuse now. Josh Gordon and Jordan Cameron are commanding tons of attention, if he's not producing soon, he never will.
It's really sad because you can see potential for him to be solid, and that's all the Browns are asking for.
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I haven't read any posts in this thread, but Weeden made two All-Pro caliber throws to Little in traffic against Baltimore that were just beautiful...and he dropped them both. I think if Little catches those passes it would have bought Weeden a little more time to prove whether he can be the guy or not...sans injury. So not only is Little a bust...I wish we would just cut him already...he was also making Weeden look worse than he is.
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Funny thing is, if you re-watch Hoyer's game winning drive. He makes three inaccurate passes that were not only caught but turned into crucial 1st downs. One the slant to Gordon on 3rd&10 which was thrown well behind but Gordon made a body twisting catch and had the luxury to slow down because the coverage was non existent, then one to the flat high to Obi who had to stretch but THIS time makes the catch and then again the last first down to Gordon again thrown behind him. It's all there for free on the nfl.com highlights.
What a difference a go to WR and the half drop or great catch by your FB/RB makes. Yet one is the new hope and the other the scapegoat, although bottom line playing pretty much a similar game, though being totally different style of QBs.
We will see, Hoyer deserves this sunday's start, if only for the game winner, even if Weeden was healthy, but if he turns in another performance like that vs Cincy (which wont be enough to win it, unless the D dominates), then Weeden should get the keys back
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Weeden had Gordon last year. He also had Richardson catching balls out of the backfield.
In that time, he never once showed what Hoyer showed on Sunday.
I don't think Hoyer's the new hope. He'll hit his wall eventually, probably as soon as this week.
But I'd start him over Weeden.
Weeden has a cannon. And that's it. He's football dumb and he has no leadership skills whatsoever.
I think there's a strong chance Weeden will get back in there at some point this year, but I wouldn't bet on him being on the team next year.
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Legend
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Weeden had Gordon last year. He also had Richardson catching balls out of the backfield.
In that time, he never once showed what Hoyer showed on Sunday.
I don't think Hoyer's the new hope. He'll hit his wall eventually, probably as soon as this week.
But I'd start him over Weeden.
Weeden has a cannon. And that's it. He's football dumb and he has no leadership skills whatsoever.
I think there's a strong chance Weeden will get back in there at some point this year, but I wouldn't bet on him being on the team next year.
Never showed what? The ability to score in the waning moments? Weeden led the team to s similar TD, only with 4 minutes left instead of 1 minutes left in the Dallas game.
People are going a bit to overboard with regards to Hoyer. Yes he showed some good things in the game, but there were also reasons for concern. He wasn't perfect by any stretch. Yes he showed poise that went beyond what one might expect from a guy with his limited playing time, but it was one game, against an opponent with a weak defense, who had nothing to work with as far as what to expect from Hoyer. Brady Quinn tore up a weak Lions defense in his 1st ever appearance as a Browns QB too. He showed a lot of stuff that DA didn't show. Unfortunately, after that one game, his upside turned dramatically downward.
You expect that Hoyer will "hit the wall" .... which I presume includes crashing the bus ...... but you would start him over Weeden anyway. Why? If Hoyer crashes and burns, then I think that we have to look at the guy with some potential upside left, if only to completely eliminate him from future consideration.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Never showed what?
Leadership skills, pocket awareness, football intelligence.
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The ability to score in the waning moments? Weeden led the team to s similar TD, only with 4 minutes left instead of 1 minutes left in the Dallas game.
The game where he publicly threw the coaching staff under the bus after they lost?
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but you would start him over Weeden anyway. Why?
Because he has upside and potential. It's very limited, but it's more than Weeden has.
I think Hoyer could turn into a really solid backup in the NFL. Weeden will be out of the league in a year or two.
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...One the slant to Gordon on 3rd&10 which was thrown well behind but Gordon made a body twisting catch...
I disagree. The throw was behind Gordon but only slightly. Hoyer waited to put the ball on him where all he had to do was catch it and fall forward. Gordon is a stud and made a play there, but he made nothing near a "body twisting" catch. I don't think Weeden makes that completion.
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...then one to the flat high to Obi who had to stretch but THIS time makes the catch...
Stretch? You have got to be kidding me. That throw was in stride with touch. Stretch?
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and then again the last first down to Gordon again thrown behind him. It's all there for free on the nfl.com highlights.
You mean the throw on 2nd and 7 that Hoyer threw for a first down on the go-ahead touchdown drive? My spell-checker thinks those last four words are in error. That was the worst throw he made on that entire drive. It went for a first down in the red zone.
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What a difference a go to WR and the half drop or great catch by your FB/RB makes.
Half drop? What is that? Oby is a fullback. Weeden waaaaay overthrew the wide open fullback. These subtle attempts to place blame anywhere other than with Weeden are ludicrous. Later in that game, Oby made a Willie Mays catch of a Weeden batted-ball. He's a damn good receiver. If Weeden put that muffed throw anywhere near him, Oby would have caught it.
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Yet one is the new hope and the other the scapegoat, although bottom line playing pretty much a similar game, though being totally different style of QBs.
I've not read ONE post where anyone in here thinks Hoyer is the new hope. Weeden isn't a scapegoat...he's just not good. Playing a similar game? You have got to be kidding. Hoyer made several throws that Weeden simply cannot make...Hoyer feels the pressure and throws the ball away to avoid game-losing sacks...Hoyer looked and played like a leader. The two could not play any more differently.
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We will see, Hoyer deserves this sunday's start, if only for the game winner, even if Weeden was healthy, but if he turns in another performance like that vs Cincy (which wont be enough to win it, unless the D dominates), then Weeden should get the keys back
Weeden only gets the keys back when he borrows them if Hoyer is out for some reason.
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If you really believe those throws were "accurate" or even "in stride", then more power to you, it's there for everyone to see....Obi's arms were stretched out high and at least one of his feet clearly left the ground to make that catch, yeah, to me that's stretching out. What's it for you? Is 2 feet above the head accurate all of a sudden? and we're talking a simple pitch to the flat here.
I know what I saw and if he makes some of those throws with only a little bit better coverage, then those will fall incomplete as Gordon won't have the luxury to slow down or make those plays going against better than backup type CB he faced vy Minny, so I don't expect him to be this open, this often again. Whoever thinks Hoyer is a more accurate QB is being delusional, he never came close to hitting 60% for a longer period of time, be it the NFl or even College. What he does have is more poise, moxy, mental toughness than Weeden, no doubt, but he is not more accurate or has anywhere close to Weeden's upside left. He is what he is and that's why even the Pats drafted an upgrade over him as backup and let him go.
Hoyer makes a fine backup QB who can spot start here and there, but he will never be more. Weeden is trending the same way, but at least I want to find out how he looks given a real chance with Gordon and a real RG before I cut him or trade him for nothing. If anything, try to up his trade value, something that Hoyer does not have whatsoever, because he has no upside left
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Acknowledging that Hoyer is what he is will not make Weeden any better and will not suddenly raise Weeden's ceiling. That said, I believe that we have seen Weeden's ceiling...and it's not pretty.
We can debate stride vs stretch all day long. The ball Hoyer threw to Oby was catchable and he caught it. The ball Weeden muffed to Oby would have required a Gordon-esque player to be the target. To think otherwise is laughable.
Hoyer had a similar play but to Gordon who's defender had slipped. Hoyer threw that one a tad short too...because over-throwing it - ala Weeden - would have cost us a TD. Oh yeah...again he got the completion...not to mention the TD.
This is my first real foray into the Weeden debate. I've now seen enough of him to know the following: He has an NFL arm for the rocket throws...and nothing else. No feel, no touch, no command, no sense of pressure or timing or situation...none. At age 29+ he's not going to suddenly get it either.
You can have the last word in this thread. I apologize to all for derailing it.
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Legend
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He has an NFL arm for the rocket throws...and nothing else. No feel, no touch, no command, no sense of pressure or timing or situation...none. At age 29+ he's not going to suddenly get it either.
That's a pretty good summation.
And I don't know if you need to apologize for derailing this thread...the answer to the title's question is 'yes'.
Little doesn't seem to have it between the ears. Those kind of drop problems very rarely go away at this juncture.
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Never showed what?
Leadership skills, pocket awareness, football intelligence.
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The ability to score in the waning moments? Weeden led the team to s similar TD, only with 4 minutes left instead of 1 minutes left in the Dallas game.
The game where he publicly threw the coaching staff under the bus after they lost?
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but you would start him over Weeden anyway. Why?
Because he has upside and potential. It's very limited, but it's more than Weeden has.
I think Hoyer could turn into a really solid backup in the NFL. Weeden will be out of the league in a year or two.
PDR you and i know that ytown is the biggest Weeden fan in the world. He's just upset because he was wrong about Weeden being a good player.
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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I have every reason to believe that we will draft a QB with our first pick in the coming draft. In fact, we may have to trade up to get the guy we want.
We have 2 QB on this team that seem to have any real likelihood of seeing the field this year, Hoyer and Weeden. Now, maybe the whole world has been wrong about Hoyer and he is a savior .... but I doubt that so many NFL teams could be so wrong. He played for the Pats for a few years, (and was cut in favor of Ryan Mallet) and being a fairly long term backup there, he also played for Arizona and Pittsburgh last year, cut 3 times this preseason, and now he's in Cleveland. There is a possibility that so many teams missed so completely on him, but it's unlikely.
Weeden does still have some potential based on his physical talent. We all know that physical talent alone means little to nothing, and that he needs to process things faster on the field .... but if we are to see if he is able to do that, he has to be on the field. If I thought that Hoyer had the potential to be the long term solution, then I would be all for playing him. Unfortunately, I don't. We all have doubts about Weeden, but given his superior physical ability, we should find out if he can improve on the mental side of things, and speed up his reads. Unless his teammates greatly dislike him, which I have not heard coming from anywhere, then I feel that the team owes it to themselves to find out if he can develop, or if he will remain where he is today and need to be replaced. I have doubts as to whether or not he can be that guy ..... and he did look slow in the preseason ... but when your receivers are not getting open at all, you are going to look slow if you try to let routes develop. We got Gordon back for week 3, and he was a man among mice at WR for our team. He is so much better than anyone else we have that it's almost scary. Weeden did not get to play with him in the lineup. I have to think that Gordon would make some difference in Weeden's play. Enough t justify keeping him? I don't know. I am not certain about Weeden. I'm not for giving up on him, though, until he gets to drive the car with all 4 wheels on it.
If Hoyer is not the long term answer at QB, then I don't see the advantage of starting him for the rest of the the year. We should have a pretty good idea what we have there. We also have a fairly solid idea what we have in Weeden, but he is still a very young player, (in terms of NFL experience) and I think that we need to see what he can give us. Hell, if he does nothing to show improvement for a couple of starts, then you pull him and very little has been lost. I just don't see any real upside to starting Hoyer. I want to, but I don't.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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You are too smart to give the long winded non-sensical defenses of Weeden that you're trotting out. Weeden has a cannon. And nothing else. You may as well defend Jeff Geroge. You cling to the one or two decent games he's had. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GeorJe00/gamelog/Look familiar? He's a bum. Get over it, You're not a guru. It happens. You're correct in your evaluation of Hoyer. Lean on that.
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j/c
Of course a discussion about Greg Little turns into a QB thread. Why wouldn't it?
Anyways, I'm not ready to declare him a bust just yet.
I have a similar idea to someone, I think it was Ytown, put forward earlier in the thread.
I think a position change is in order, but not to TE.
Greg has good size, around 6'2" 220, good speed, somewhere in the mid to low 4.5 40 range, can block well, and is a decisive and explosive runner.
Greg Little, RB, is worth a shot in my mind.
We're thin at RB and it's his natural position. If he works out, awesome! We don't need to spend resources in FA or the draft trying to address the need. If he doesn't work out, well, we're exactly where we were before.
Most importantly, to me at least, I hate to see a guy that has worked as hard and obviously wants to help the team as much as Greg fall by the wayside. He's a blue collar guy who seems to have the right disposition for a RB. Guys like that, if they can produce, are glue guys for the team. I really hope he can be a great player for us.
It is literally a no-lose situation. Make it happen, Chorv!
Go Browns!
Last edited by 4thandPunt; 09/29/13 06:05 AM.
Proud fan of the Pulaski Academy football strategy.
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j/c
Label Greg a bust? I'm extremely close to it. If the trade rumors with Detroit getting a 5th round pick for him, I'd say do it and NEVER look back! He drops those balls but what the off-field actions (the driving stuff and etc) completely ruins it for me.
He came on strong end of last season, and is right back this season as he was the beginning of last with the catchable but dropped passes. If he is lined up against anything other than a team's 3rd string corner or less, he won't get separation.
If possible, trade him, activiate Cooper and let Travis be the 4th WR. Let Gordon, Bess and Cooper out there. IMO that is what should be out there anyway. Benjamin sucks, Little is unreliable - give the younger kids a shot to produce...
JMO
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Vinnie was a bust too ..... until he got it.
Other QBs have taken more than a year to "get it" in the NFL. Many QB, if not most, probably never do .... but I just don't see what we gain with Hoyer. If he can become the starter, then that's one thing ...... but again .. I don't see that happening.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I just don't see what we gain with Hoyer
if hoyer can play good football the rest of the year, we can draft our guy this year and hopefully have the luxury of having him sit and learn. throwing rookies into the fire have ruined a lot of careers.
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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.... but I just don't see what we gain with Hoyer. If he can become the starter, then that's one thing ...... but again .. I don't see that happening.
I don't see that happening either but I can still see what we may gain.
Let's say they have their mind made up concerning Weeden and they know he will be gone after the end of this season. If that's the case, playing Weeden serves no purpose.
Where as, if you feel Hoyer may be your long term solution as your back-up, getting him experience and making him feel poised and confident in their system makes a lot of sense.
To me, it's all a question of where they see Weeden in their plans moving forward that would determine the best way to invest the playing time at QB for the rest of the year.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Weeden will return as the starter as soon as he's 100% unless Hoyer suddenly becomes superman and to pull him would defy all logic.
Chud and Norv saw enough tape on Weeden and still made the decision that they could make it work with him this season. That decision is not going out the window after 2 games even given a decent showing by a third-string backup.
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Considering that it's been reported that the Browns won't take less than a 2nd round pick for Weeden, (per MKC) I don't see what it gains us to hang on to him and ride the bench.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Weeden will return as the starter as soon as he's 100% unless Hoyer suddenly becomes superman and to pull him would defy all logic.
Chud and Norv saw enough tape on Weeden and still made the decision that they could make it work with him this season. That decision is not going out the window after 2 games even given a decent showing by a third-string backup.
I really wasn't saying they will keep Hoyer as the starter as I was saying that if they did, I could see the logic behind it.
And I guess my question to you would be, if Hoyer has success where Weeden hasn't, would they stick with Weeden simply because they made those statements, or because it's the best decision at the QB position?
I just read the post where you pointed out the things Hoyer does, that Weeden simply doesn't have the ability to do. So why then would it be logical to start Weeden over Hoyer?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
So why then would it be logical to start Weeden over Hoyer?
Good catch.
I been rethinking that post after I wrote it. Sometimes when I write something immediately after I hit enter I think about what I just said and wonder if it makes as much sense to me as it did 2 seconds ago or does it sound stupid which is my wont.
It wouldn't be logical for me to start Weeden over Hoyer. But it could be for them. Now as I said, if Hoyer becomes superman they may wish to go with the hot hand and keep playing him. I certainly would not oppose that.
Here comes the re-thinking part...
It could be also that a part of the reason Chud and Norv publicly said they could work with Weeden is because there simply were no other options. Bad draft for QB's and no FA's worth a real look as a starter. If that was the case then yeah, maybe they do give up after 2 games if Hoyer looks even marginally better.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
I won't say that Greg Little is a bust yet... only because I don't know what we'll be able to get for him in a trade.
If we can get a 4th rounder or better for him, he wouldn't have been a bust. If we can't, then yes, it'll have been a bust.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 497
1st String
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1st String
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 497 |
Yes. He's a bust. Stone hands and doesn't think on his feet.
Never have hope. You won’t be disappointed.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
He returned some nice kicks today.
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,846 Likes: 950
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,846 Likes: 950 |
He also had a couple of great blocks on those screens early on.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,974 Likes: 355
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,974 Likes: 355 |
He is our best blocking WR by far. He might even be a better blocker than our TEs.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 433
1st String
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1st String
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 433 |
He won't be here next year.The FO is cleaning house,and him and Weeden will be of the first to go.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Is anyone else ready to consider
Greg Little a bust yet?
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