DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The belated TRich trade thread

I think we signed him because we'd just traded TRich and because no other back on our roster is very good?

Wow, I guess we'll have to wait and see if he'll contribite. And if you are right, we won't have to wait very long.

My opinions of Richardson don't play a role in my opinions of the trade. Teams win or lose in this league because of the QB, and unless your name is Peyton Manning, the offensive line.

Right now, we have neither.

There's no sense continuing on with a soon-to-be 30 year old QB that doesn't look like he turned the corner in the most-important 2nd season. There's no sense throwing good money at bad money. Do what you have to do to get a QB, and that starts with acquiring picks.

If you can get a 1st round pick for a player that can be replaced in a reasonable fashion in order to rebuild the roster in the way you see fit, you do it. No point in waiting to see if you can win with the last regime's players. Go get your own and do it your way, win, lose, or draw.

I dig Richardson, but I dig the trade more.

The FO managed to get a mulligan on one of the 1st round picks spent by the previous idiotic failed regime. We won't be able to get anything of value for Weeden, but that's the way it goes. In the end, they'll be able to pair picks to get a good shot at a franchise QB. While there are no guarantees, they've given themselves the best possible chance. It was a brilliant move by a FO that has caught a ton of undeserved heat.

And, for the record, I hope Holmgren is enjoying eating his mountain of crow for whining like the little beoch he is. He spoke out yet the majority of the people in the know disagreed with him. What a tool, what a fool, and I'm elated he's in the dessert kicking rocks.

Changing directions here while sticking with the theme, if I'm the FO I'm calling teams like Detroit and others which have had DE's go down and I'm trying to get a 2nd rounder for Sheard. Afterall, I've just spent a 1st round pick on Mingo and I'm trying to restock the roster. Sheard can still come at the passer but is a work-in-progress in coverage, as we've all seen. Try to deal him to a 4-3 team to gain another high pick. If we're going to sacrifice the season for the future, do it right.

I have a similar opinion but completely different take.

Weeden they didn't like in the first place...that's fine, and he's played his way out...and Hoyer highlighting strengths that he didn't have hurts him even more. That's what kills him.

As for TRich trade...McGahee and a 1st is better than TRich in my opinion. Teams passed on Willis because of injury concerns not talent concerns. He had 730 in 8 1/3 games last year, and just hasn't been looked at because everyone wants to get young.

I see McGahee as a guy that not only this year, but next year could be our lead guy, with a mid-late round pick backing him up/splitting time with him, and then either taking over, or being replaced by a higher pick.

He is an insurance guy. He wont be bad, but wont be elite. We don't need elite ya know...just a body that can get it done, which he is. Willis will be good for us. It's his style to not suck.

Had a lot of thoughts about the T Rich trade, but the one new for today is.
It is a great excuse for the results of the season we can expect. For instance, suppose the team does mediocre, they can say, well we did mediocre without T Rich. But if they did the same and he was still here, it would mean, (Ya,) this Is how good or bad the team is.

Ahem. Mourgum and Myself wanted Ryan Tannehill, Before the draft, and looking at the whole situation today, ehhh they could have done worse.
What might have been.

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The other place is still the fickle dumpster board filled with homers and pitchfork people, what a waste of time.

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What a sweetheart of a guy.

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The timing was odd combined with the public dismantling of Weeden and almost everyone being on the trade block, even young good players along with our FO already talking about the 2014 offseason. I was like "hello, we just started THIS season!".

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It wasn't odd. We wouldn't have received a first round pick before or after the season for him.

Additionally, we were 0 and 2. We were 29th in rushing and 31st in scoring. TRich was averaging around 3.5 yards per carry. That is pedestrian.

Everyone on the trading block? Really? Any facts to support that claim or are you now believing in wild rumors? Btw.........Santa is coming to your house in December.

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Pulling this stuff after two weeks can only lead to one or maybe both of the following conclusions: either the new FO was incredibly dishonest with their fan base or they're flat out incompetent by going into a season with a roster they didn't like and gad all kinds of ways and time to upgrade to their wishes.

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Those are the conclusions of a person who wants the FO to fail. That way he can tell us....."I told you so."

I think it is entirely plausible that the team wanted to give Weeden a chance under Norv and Chud. When it became apparent that Weeden was still his same old, pathetic self.....all bets were off. When a chance to improve the team and fix one--and perhaps two of H and H's mistakes presented itself.......the Browns jumped on it. Thank God they did.

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We will see how this plays out, but I don't feel overly optimistic about the prospects of Lombanner of "rebuilding" a roster that already was rebuild with a dozen+ young core players in place.

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A couple of things are obvious to me when I watch the Browns.

1. They are not as talented as most teams.

2. Some of our best players this year were brought in by the new guys. Bryant might be the second best player on the team. Kruger is tough. Mingo looks very good to me. Bess is a very good receiver.

You keep fighting your crusade on behalf of a couple of losers [14 and 34 in three years.] It will be interesting how you spin it after the Browns become a good team. I, for one, am going to enjoy reading your recreation of history.

Oh it's good to have the bickering back.



Thanks again Purp.

DjangoBrown,

Weren't you same guy that said this front office knows we will be bad and are wasting this year just like Holmgren did with Mangini?

There was a rumor circulating a couple days before the trade that Trich had some major swelling in his knee before the Ravens game because he had skipped out on treatment several times during the week, so I wasnt surprised when we did trade him.

Personally, I loved the trade. I just got tired of seeing holes that OB would have busted for 20 and Trent was getting 2 out of. Love the kid in college but he has no vision and anticipation right now.

I was a huge Heckert fan and feel he made a lot of great moves but I didnt like his last draft although I did love the picks of Schwartz and Winn. I am not surprised with Weeden but I never imagined Trish would become a tentative dancer.

I hope we just dump the fullback and make OB our #1.

I would go ahead and see if I could trade for Mallet. send them Weeden and a 2nd.

I HATE THE TRADE

From 2 different views.
1. We gave up 4 picks to get him 3rd in the draft. Now we will probably have 20-28 range in the 1st. I dont see the value there.

2. Comparing Trich to what we could get for him now and what he could be for us, I'd rather see what he could do for us once we had a passing threat. Going up against 9-10 in the box with zone blitzing is tough for any back. Whether he became a superstar or not, he would of had definite value for this team, great character, and a leader. Those qualities are hard to find. He may not have ended up a superstar, but he was a threat in the backfield we had been missing for many years. Now we have to fill the spot again, McGahee is not the answer. This is what his 11th season??? He's a fill gap 1 year player.

And for those who want to say ... see I told you so, look how he played for the colts. This must be the most absurd thing i've heard. How can you critique him for having 1 practice and playing? He doesnt know the system. He doesnt know how the line moves. He doesnt know the FB. Different terminology. Different timing... Come on guys, Really???? Thats the basis for your arguement?

Did you see that link above? It changed my views on Trich. I'm not sure his trade value would have been any higher that it is now.

No i did not.

But I dont think you should make a trade cuz his value is the highest at that time.

The question is how long does it take and what do we have to give up to replace him?

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But I dont think you should make a trade cuz his value is the highest at that time.

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On the other hand, I don't think you turn down a 1st round offer because you gave up a lot to acquire him. As Riddler said, that's pretty much irrelevant. The bottom line is we were 5-13 and 3.5 yds per carry with him. He was supposed to be a game breaker and it just didn't work out. He was a running back, not a qb....production should come sooner rather than later. That said, I really hope he works out for the Colts. That would make it a win-win situation, and other teams will be more open to dealing with us.

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1. We gave up 4 picks to get him 3rd in the draft. Now we will probably have 20-28 range in the 1st. I dont see the value there.

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The old FO made a huge mistake in packaging those picks. He was drafted to be our version of Adrian Peterson at a position where you quickly adapt. He wasn't. Given the situation, new regime, offense, and his YPC, I think the value was right.

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Going up against 9-10 in the box with zone blitzing is tough for any back.

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I don't ever recall seeing this. But, if you look at elite backs who defenses scheme to shut down, you notice they seemingly always find a way to succeed. Guys like Peterson hit the whole with such ferocity you feel like they're pure energy sometimes. Never saw that with Richardson, as much as I wanted to. Also, I think someone pointed out a stat showing that he did t go up against 8 in the box an irregular amount of times.

Also, to respond to your post in the other thread, where do you get that Banner wanted to tank the season and Chud somehow stuck it to him?

Per PFF for the 2012 season:

Trent Richardson Vs. 8 Or More In The Box In 2012
Carries Percentage Of Total Carries
Trent Richardson 48 17.98%
League Average 23.25%

Richardson facing staked boxes is a myth.

And the Browns run blocking was rated 14 out of 32. Notably average.

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1. We gave up 4 picks to get him 3rd in the draft. Now we will probably have 20-28 range in the 1st. I dont see the value there.

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The day Heckert was fired Richardson's previous status went out the window. The new guys valued the first round pick (and a potential franchise QB) more than they value Richardson.

Fortune favors the bold.

Vick Ballard's injury probably made Richardson's value go up for the Colts. If you offered up Richardson in preseason they'd probably say.."well we already have Ballard and Bradshaw, I guess we can give you a 2nd-3rd for Richardson?"

Try not to worry or comment at Vers' sniping comments. He seems to be the only person around here convinced people are pro any regime...I think most people can see the pros and cons of individual moves and see both positive and negative in every regime we've had.

Basically..don't fall into the troll pit DJ

I could see Ballard being an argument if we got a 2nd or 3rd, but to pay a 1st you have to love the player you trade for and reportedly they did when they drafted Luck. Whenever you pay a 1st a FO thinks "franchise plaer". They signed Bradshaw because they didn't believe in Ballard to begin with, so I doubt he was in any shape or form an obstacle to pay a 1st for a player they believe to be a clear upgrade and a "franchise player"

And you're absolutely right about the other stuff...

It gets complicated when we are talking about player evaluation vs. team need. You are right, they likely have always had Richardson as a player worthy of a 1st round pick. I believe it is either Irsay or their GM that was making that pretty clear. Just when we talk about player need it becomes complicated.

I need to rehash my sentiments. I don't think the Colts increased what they would give up for T Rich. But given the circumstances they were better able to justify the move. If Ballard was healthy I don't think they make the move.

Here is my opinion of the trade:

Were we a better team with TRich on our team?

It depends on how you define better.

Better in the win column? No. TRich never showed to be the difference between winning and losing ... just like almost all other RBs in todays NFL.

I don't understand the tanking mentality some of the fans and media have. We didn't win WITH TRich on our team anyway! We never won BECAUSE of him.

Almost every GM type has said that this was a landslide win for the Browns. Many lamented that they didn't get to the Colts first. Teams just don't trade 1st round picks for RBs anymore. The value just isn't there. Somehow Banner talked the Colts into it though. I think that's well done.

ok, thanks.

i had read that but i am pretty much disregarding everything that La Canfora says about our team. he seems to be in the bag with Lombardi.

but, that is fair as he mentions other GMs as sources, which is all that you had said. Thank you.

I just thought you would commend the front office for not using this season as a throwaway to buy another year (like Holmgren did with Mangini).

The way I look at it is, where do you think TRich would go in the 2014 draft knowing everything we know about him as a player and his injury history? You also know you only have 2 years left on his deal and you know his exact cap number, etc. If it was Andrew Luck, we all know he would still go #1 overall in 2014. Where would TRich go? He certainly wouldn't go in the top 5. I'm not sure he would even go in the first round considering everything. Indianapolis looks like a playoff team that can go deep into the playoffs so our return on their draft pick would be a late first. I still think we got value. I like TRich and still think he can be a good player, but I don't think he will ever help his team as much as a #3 overall pick should.

Richardson still runs like he's at Alabama and can take whatever angle he wants.

If someone offers you a first rounder for a running back who lacks vision and can't hit holes, you make that trade immediately.

What remains to be seen is what we do with the pick.

Trent Richardson did the conference call with the Jacksonville media today in advance of the Colts-Jaguars game Sunday.

Almost all of the questions for Richardson were about last week’s trade from the Browns — and Richardson had some interesting things to say, including that he sees “people enjoying their jobs” with the Colts and that the Browns coaches had promised him more carries before the surprising trade.

Below is the transcript of the call distributed by the Colts, picking up three questions in.

How different is the atmosphere? Cleveland where they’re rebuilding and Indy is coming off a playoff berth – can you tell in the locker room?

“Yeah and the atmosphere here with the players is way different. It’s much cooler, much family vibe, people actually come to work and are just ready to work and have fun. People are enjoying their jobs. I don’t think it’s one guy. I can look to my left and to my right and say that this guy is not trying as hard or he’s not giving it all to him because these guys will get onto you about that and make sure you’re working.”

Were some guys in Cleveland not giving their all?

“I can’t say that they weren’t giving their all but there were times that it was a Wednesday or it’s a Monday or something like that. Sometimes you have a mindset saying you don’t want to go to work today or something like that. I’m not saying these guys don’t get a day off but here you can just hear the different vibe with the family and the brotherly love here.”

How has the transition been for you personally? Did you have a house in Cleveland?

“Yeah, I had a house in Cleveland. It’s tough. I’ve got a family and a house in Cleveland so I’ve got to put my house on the market and I’ve got a find somewhere to stay here even if I’m just going to lease for a year. With the process of moving and stuff like that and the kids and their school was the biggest concern to me because anywhere I go I know I can play football. It doesn’t matter. It’s a process with the kids. I’ve got a first and kindergartener and I’ve got a son that’s going to be a year next week. With saying that I’m not there and we’re planning a birthday party for him for the big “one” and it’s difficult trying to see them at the same time. For the first two games that I have here are two away games. I actually had a (luxury) box in Cleveland too so getting all of that stuff cancelled out for the rest of the year and I can’t get a box here because they’re all sold out. It’s been difficult.”

Were you disappointed with the way you found out that you had been traded? That’s weird having a friend call you?

“Yeah it was weird. I was very surprised and disappointed. At first it felt like they just really gave up on me. I thought I was doing all I could to be a Cleveland Brown and I get traded. I heard that and I was like, ‘What are you talking about?’ One of my friends called and I was like I’m not getting traded, what are you talking about? Then when I turned up the radio it was breaking news that ‘Trent Richardson has been traded to the Colts.’ I’m just leaving a complex and just got done ice bath and stuff like that and trying to take care of my body and getting ready for the next week. Later that night I was flying to Indy to do my physical the next morning and get ready to be a on the practice field.”

You never saw it coming in Cleveland?

“No, none of that. I was pretty good people there with everybody and everybody was always turned to me when it was coming to games on the line or needed advice on certain stuff. I thought I had built up enough chemistry with the players that we had enough respect for each other that they could come to me and say anything. I was on a leadership group, a captain group, whatever they called it. The coaches and I were good and they were telling me that we are going to get it done and we will get you the ball more. I was just telling the coaches it didn’t matter, let’s just win and get that win first. It doesn’t matter about the carries. I just want to win, that was the big issue and the big point of emphasis I tried to make every week.”

Do you feel like you went to a place that’s closer to winning?

“Oh yeah. It’s funny because the rebuilding year was last year and we still have a young group. We have our vets and stuff too. Our vets lead like no other leaders. They do a tremendous job with it but here you’ve got Luck and me and then you’ve got guys like Dwayne and you have our other tight end. We’ve got young guys and a young coach here. People don’t realize how much Indy has been a Pro Bowl system with the backfield when you’ve got Marshall Faulk coming from the same system, the same program, you’ve got Edgerrin James, Joseph Addai, so Peyton Manning always had a good running back.”

I know going to the Colts worked out well but it hurt your pride that a year later Cleveland doesn’t want you?

“I look at it as this, as far as me having a chip on my shoulder and saying with that I kind of felt like they gave up on me. They hurt my pride because I know I can play football and that’s always been my dream. I’m going to keep my head up high and put that behind me. Now, they asked me if I would ever go back to Cleveland? That’s tough to come about but I figured on an up and coming basis that I would be there longer and I would have been there longer. It played like it played and it’s probably the best move ever for me. I don’t know about on their end. It might be, but on our end I think it’s one of the best moves ever that they would make for me.”

Because you went to a winning team?

“Yeah, a winning team with a winning coach. Ahmad Bradshaw took a big load off of me. Andrew Luck, Reggie Wayne, the offensive line, it’s a big load being taken off of me. When you don’t have to play behind you can really get the touches that you really want to to fill out the game. We’ve got a two headed monster like me and Ahmad. It’s crazy. Ahmad had been blessed to be with a team like he was at the Giants with a two headed monster when him and Brandon Jacobs were running the ball.”

Do you feel you have anything to prove because the casual fans across the country wonder why Cleveland would trade you a year later? Is there a problem?

“I think I’ve got a lot to prove because I never want to have that taste in my mouth again. No matter if it’s a good one or a bad one I want to be committed to a team and want the team to be committed to me. On that end I think I’ve got a lot to prove because I was the third pick of the draft, it was a year ago and being a player that I was last year playing with broken ribs and two knee surgeries, so I thought that the harder I went out there they would have stuck by me a little bit longer. I never caused any problems. It’s a business and at the same time with that business trip they just had, I’ve just got to put that behind me and say this never happen again, nothing that I don’t know about.”

It sounds like they were committed to you then this happens.

“I don’t think Norv Turner had anything to do with that. And Chilly probably had nothing to do with that either. A lot of stuff can come from up top and you don’t know why they do stuff. When that stuff happens it just happens. One thing Coach Saban always taught me when I was in Alabama he said, ‘It’s nothing personal, it’s a business.’”

Now you want to be a long term member of the Colts?

“Oh yeah, most definitely. This place here is where I think I want to be home as far as playing in my NFL career. I don’t want to be on another squad, I want to be here for the long run.”

Any particular goals, like leading the league in rushing, Pro Bowl?

“That’s down the line. That stuff is a goal every year. It’s going to come, I know it’s going to come. When it comes it’s going to come big and saying with that it’s a lot of team goals I still have for this team here. A lot of personal goals and at the end of the year I’m going to look at my tablet and see that I reach most of it, and I set my expectations high so if I reach just most of it or at least half of it I’m going to have a pretty successful year.”

How old are your kids?

“Seven, five and one next week.”

Two girls and a boy?

“Yeah.”

They’re still in Cleveland?

“Yeah, they’re still in Cleveland.”

They must have been shocked too?

“Yeah, it’s kind of hard to explain but I think my kids have been taking it well. They don’t know what’s really going on and they ask why. It’s hard to tell them. I can’t explain it to them because half of it and most of it I don’t really know. I just said Daddy got traded and we’ve got to pick up and move unless you want to stay here in Cleveland.”

How fast will you find a place and get them to Indy?

“We have been fine and we have been looking the last two days and it’s been coming along. I’ve been looking for some places. We should be wrapped up by next week or the week after that.”

You’ve already looked at houses?

“Yeah. I’m not wasting any time. I want to be here and I want my kids to be settled in so I can be feeling at home.”

You hope to make lemonade out of a lemon of a situation then?

“Oh yeah. Freshly squeezed.”

http://fanmonster.com/?p=6503

He has been there one week, and already considers himself an equal to Wayne and Luck, GMAFB. I never thougt he was a diva, but he seems in this article to have a me me attitude. I also find it funny that people say he was late for treatments and a loner in the locker room, but in this interview he portrays himself as a team leader. I like when he says players could come to him, as if he had done something to earn this type of status.

IMO, he has an overblown opinion of himself. Good luck to him, but I seriously doubt he becomes a game changing player.

I bet that they edited out a few "Most definitely's".

Most definitely.

I am more and more warming up to the trade. Was against it at first, but becoming more of a better decision. We didn't win with him here and the next injury he gets, at least we won't have to deal with that...

I still think he's a beast. I look for him to have a good career in Indy with Luck. Teams won't stack the box on him otherwise Luck will shred them.

Teams weren't stacking the box against him here. Someone posted the stats as far as how often he faced 8 in the box, and it was pretty rare. That makes sense with as many times as we sent 4 receivers into the pattern that needed to be covered. Maybe he faced 7 .... but nit 8 very often. (especially not after Gordon established himself as a deep threat that required double coverage)