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At first, I was just stunned. I wasn't mad but I felt they were tanking the season. But the more I thought about the trade and looked back on the history of TRich with us, the more I liked it.
I think the front office saw him for what he is, a tenative RB that had some injury concerns and a running style that doesn't fit the offense we're running here. So they cut ties, got a high draft pick and moved on.
I think the conventional wisdom is that you don't build around a RB in today's NFL. If you have a QB and an offensive line, you can fill out the rest of your offensive depth chart with mid-round draft picks and free agents.
And I watch most of the Indianapolis game on Sunday, Bradshaw was BY FAR the better RB. While TRich had a TD on his first carry, it was only a 1 yard run, he didn't do much the rest of the game.
I'm happy about the trade. And I'm happy that most of the media, and maybe some fans, will eat some crow about ripping the FO on this trade.
Your thoughts?
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I am very grateful the board was down for a while. It would have been ugly around here.
After watching Richardson knock off a 2.7 yard average with Indy I feel much better. I'll have to see how the rest of his season goes before I pass any further judgment.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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It makes sense even though it's hard to stomach losing a Top 3 pick from a year ago. Everyone ripped on Richardson for leaving yardage on the field and plodding along up until the moment he was dealt; then suddenly he's one of our best players. If he stays around as bad as he is now, a 1st is easily good value for him. Sell high. Having a "good" RB without a QB is like putting rims on an old Buick, especially in today's NFL. I have a feeling it's not going to be super hard to replace his career 3.5 YPC.
We're... we're good?
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Quote:
At first, I was just stunned. I wasn't mad but I felt they were tanking the season. But the more I thought about the trade and looked back on the history of TRich with us, the more I liked it.
I think the front office saw him for what he is, a tenative RB that had some injury concerns and a running style that doesn't fit the offense we're running here. So they cut ties, got a high draft pick and moved on.
I think the conventional wisdom is that you don't build around a RB in today's NFL. If you have a QB and an offensive line, you can fill out the rest of your offensive depth chart with mid-round draft picks and free agents.
And I watch most of the Indianapolis game on Sunday, Bradshaw was BY FAR the better RB. While TRich had a TD on his first carry, it was only a 1 yard run, he didn't do much the rest of the game.
I'm happy about the trade. And I'm happy that most of the media, and maybe some fans, will eat some crow about ripping the FO on this trade.
Your thoughts?
I agree with 100%
I think we unloaded a stock who's value was at its peak (at least for us). He may flourish in Indy, but he was struggling here.
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Quote:
And I'm happy that most of the media, and maybe some fans, will eat some crow about ripping the FO on this trade.
Your thoughts?
That will all depend on if they get the draft pick right next year. Given the history of this team, I have my doubts.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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Oh yes, the trade isn't ready to be graded yet. As you said, we still need to use the pick and then wait for that pick to develop on the field. That's a long way off. But as of today, I'm happy with the move.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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J/C ... I think that the front office made out like bandits on this trade. In an era where the RB position is largely devalued, and where you can find top end players in the 2nd round through UDFA market, getting a 1st rounder for a RB is astonishing. I like Trent, but it was obvious that he wasn't getting it done here. He missed too many wide open alleys, and turned what could have been huge gains into short gains instead. I was truly stunned when I went back and looked. I think that it is obvious that we don't have our franchise guy on the team now. Weeden will probably wind up with another shot to prove himself, but I just have my doubts that he will be able to do so. Anyone wanting to tell me that I was wrong may feel free to do so.  I am not as sold on Hoyer as some are. I think that he played a solid game, but the Vikings have been truly awful on defense this year, and he did gain a huge advantage when Gordon returned to action. Anyway, with Trent gone, Brandon probably gone next year, and Schwartz struggling mightily, last year's draft is not looking so hot. Hopefully Schwartz can get himself turned around and become an effective RT. I know that he had to play next to Cousins, but man, his play has been brutal this year. Anyway ..... we'll probably grab a RB in the 2nd or 3rd round of next year's draft, and he'll probably do better than Trent did this year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I think that it was an absurd trade, but when you look at how we played post-trade, it seems pretty obvious that we don't really care about being able to run anyway, so it probably is moot.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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BpG. Thanks for posting this: web page Great article on the lack of vision that Richardson had last year. Maybe that can be coached, but it sure displayed his lack of seeing the hole. It also restored some of the faith I have in this FO.
And the next head coach is ......
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Thank you very much for the work to get this board back up  The other place is still the fickle dumpster board filled with homers and pitchfork people, what a waste of time. Regarding TRich: the value was very good. The timing was odd combined with the public dismantling of Weeden and almost everyone being on the trade block, even young good players along with our FO already talking about the 2014 offseason. I was like "hello, we just started THIS season!". Pulling this stuff after two weeks can only lead to one or maybe both of the following conclusions: either the new FO was incredibly dishonest with their fan base or they're flat out incompetent by going into a season with a roster they didn't like and gad all kinds of ways and time to upgrade to their wishes. We will see how this plays out, but I don't feel overly optimistic about the prospects of Lombanner of "rebuilding" a roster that already was rebuild with a dozen+ young core players in place.
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"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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If there is anything I enjoy about DJ's posts it is the hammering of the word value over and over again. Rb's in the first...in the top 5? terrible value. By that logic swapping out T Rich for a 1st is a steal I'm quite happy with. For some reason I bought into the notion we were tanking the season, while simultaneously believing T Rich stinks and Hoyer is probably better than Weeden (who is injured anyways). It didn't make any logical sense to believe those facts simultaneously, but I had Bridgewater fever for a few days  I view running backs as interchangable bodies that need speed, burst and vision/ the ability to find the hole. All of which were lacking in T Rich's game. Give me a guy like Dion Lewis and I am happy. Someone cheap and fast. I'm a huge fan of scatbacks vs. plodders. For all I know we may be happy with Hardesty if he can ever find the field. Give me an elite QB and I could care less about the running back, even a player resembling Browns relics Jamel White or Jason Wright would be fine by me. I don't know how things will go in the future for this team. But I like the T Rich trade on its face.
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I was shocked like everyone else.
It looks bad PR wise, but I wasn't all that mad because what has Trent done for us? I don't want to say bust, because he's still young but after seeing Bradshaw carve up SF's defense and Trent run like he did when we had him, I don't think he's ever going to be one of those top level backs. Take AP out of the conversation, because he's a once every other decade freak, but how about Lesean McCoy? Look at the footwork. It's not even close. Trent is half a step behind him.
I like the trade even if Indy makes the playoffs. It's a chance to either put together something for a QB or add to a position where we need it (Corner, guard, etc)
Regardless, you need to come out of next May with a QB (assuming Hoyer doesn't go legend this year) with either that pick or our own. Period.
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j/c
It's a two edged sword to me. There are various ways to look at it. I do feel IF you wished to make a trade of TRich, you were never going to get more than they did for him. So in that aspect, they did get the most bang for their buck in regards to dealing him.
One has to wonder if Money Ball was not involved, and in this case, it may have been a good thing. He was drafted before the rookie cap went into place. His salary cap number was much higher than what he can be replaced for will be.
For those that question his "style" in this O, he can run, catch and block, so his style fits anywhere.
IMO, there is no right or wrong in this as of yet. What will determine it, will be what TRich becomes and what they get out of the pick they acquired for TRich. The jury is still out on that one and will be for a while.
Considering they made trades in last years draft for this upcoming draft and the trade of TRich, they're putting all of their eggs in one basket. That is the upcoming draft. If they don't hit a home run in this years draft on several levels, there will be hell to pay. And rightfully so.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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People talk about trading down in a draft for value, but when you trade draft picks for value, you better be sure that even a "mismatched" trade truly has value.
We traded the 6th overall pick in 2011 to the Falcons. They used that pick to acquire Julio Jones. In 2 years and 3 games, Jones has 2500 yards receiving, and has caught 18 TD passes. He has averaged 15.8 yards/catch. He has been nothing short of spectacular.
In return we received 5 picks. With those picks we acquired:
Phil Taylor:. Definitely a valuable player. It has yet to be determined if he can be a game changer. he has played 27 games in his career, and has 78 tackles and 6 sacks over that time frame.
Greg Little: Definitely an up and down career thus far.
Owen Marecic: Umm yeah ......
Brandon Weeden: Well, moving on ....
James Michael Johnson: Well ...... what can be said here?
So, would you rather have the superstar receiver, or the 5 picks that created "value"?
As it turns out, it appears that this trade will wind up being a trade of Julio Jones for Phil Taylor. Taylor is a very good player ..... but man, Jones would be such a weapon for us, I would not trade Jones for Taylor straight up, as much as I like Taylor. The trade that Heckert maneuvered may have been a good trade with poor ensuing execution, but right now it looks like a clear win for the Falcons.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
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For some reason I bought into the notion we were tanking the season,
I still believe that we are, especially if we trade anybody else.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I think the value of that trade was pretty muddled to begin with. There was some debate about Jones potential to be a true #1 WR which he seems to have quieted. When it comes to taking running backs (..the top 5) the picture is much more clear. Same with some positions like guard and the DeCastro debacle going on. If doing that trade meant we ended up going after Josh Gordon I am pretty happy about it...but he's my favorite Brown so I'm pretty biased In the end value just means acquiring good players at the cheapest possible price. #1 WR's are damn hard to come by much more so than whatever we got for Jones, the Falcons definitely ended up winning that one. It is debatable how good Taylor is for his draft slot, considering we have Rubin, Winn, and Hughes at much lower rounds. Can we find a guy to match or exceed T Rich's performance at a cheaper price? Well we already have two in Dion Lewis and Hardesty. It remains to be seen if we'll go after another one.
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j/c I wanted Claiborn and Doug Martin instead of Richardson and Weeden nuff said about my opinions 
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Initially after the trade, I was shocked. We were basically giving up on a top 3 pick, barely a year and a half after we made it, and seemingly giving up on the season with the news of Hoyer starting and Little getting benched. I think the hardest pill to swallow was knowing that we took a #4 pick in 2012 and essentially traded a 4th, 5th and 7th rounder so that we could trade DOWN to what might be a #20'ish pick in 2014. Ouch!
But then looking at the trade itself, it's actually a pretty decent trade for us. If anything, it shows us what a horrible pick it was in 2012. I remember being really disappointed in 2012 when we trade up ONE spot to take a Runningback. It wasn't so much that it was TR, it was the fact that teams are built around the passing game these days. Runningbacks are slowly going the way of the Fullback. They just aren't that important. Even teams that had generational guys like Adrian Peterson or LT never made it very far in the playoffs. You were much better off with a very good QB than a legendary RB.
But I was willing to give TR a chance. If he became a stud like AP, I'd take that ... But that's the thing. He never did. Granted he only had a year to prove his worth, but the thing with RB's is ... they aren't like QBs. They don't need 2-3 years to learn an offense and catch up to the speed of the game. They usually hit the hole running, and quickly deteriorate from wear and tear after that.
And TR just wasn't doing it. He wasn't showing any potential to be the next AP or LT. He was gaining a lousy 3.5 YPC, was looking tentative when hitting holes, and wasn't exploding when he hit the second level. He just didn't look like a franchise back ... someone you could build the entire offense around. He was also getting injured a lot.
So now we bring in Norv who likes a vertical passing game, we've got a QB that likes to operate out of the shotgun in Weeds, and a RB who doesn't seem to fit in the system, and can't be relied on to be a franchise back. It was just a square peg/round hole scenario. We traded him for a first rounder, which actually seems like a bargain, considering what he was outputting for us.
So does it suck that we blew a #3 pick less than 2 years into his career? Yes. But consider that a #1 pick is probably going to be the most we would ever get for him if he continued his current production.of 3.5 YPC and being a true RB in a offense that wants to be more of a passing threat.
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j/c I wanted Claiborn and Doug Martin instead of Richardson and Weeden
nuff said about my opinions
Yeah, I'm usually pretty homer-istic and can get the logic of just about any draft pick made be our front office. Yet that draft really left me scratching my head and disappointed. A RB in a pass-happy league that we used other draft picks to trade up and get ... and a QB that was older than Aaron Rodgers in the first round. It just wreaked of desperation from Holmgren to try and get some instant offense and we over-drafted quite a bit for two guys that needed to produce right away ... and naturally, didn't.
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Quote:
People talk about trading down in a draft for value, but when you trade draft picks for value, you better be sure that even a "mismatched" trade truly has value.
We traded the 6th overall pick in 2011 to the Falcons. They used that pick to acquire Julio Jones. In 2 years and 3 games, Jones has 2500 yards receiving, and has caught 18 TD passes. He has averaged 15.8 yards/catch. He has been nothing short of spectacular.
In return we received 5 picks. With those picks we acquired:
Phil Taylor:. Definitely a valuable player. It has yet to be determined if he can be a game changer. he has played 27 games in his career, and has 78 tackles and 6 sacks over that time frame.
Greg Little: Definitely an up and down career thus far.
Owen Marecic: Umm yeah ......
Brandon Weeden: Well, moving on ....
James Michael Johnson: Well ...... what can be said here?
So, would you rather have the superstar receiver, or the 5 picks that created "value"?
As it turns out, it appears that this trade will wind up being a trade of Julio Jones for Phil Taylor. Taylor is a very good player ..... but man, Jones would be such a weapon for us, I would not trade Jones for Taylor straight up, as much as I like Taylor. The trade that Heckert maneuvered may have been a good trade with poor ensuing execution, but right now it looks like a clear win for the Falcons.
I said before last season that the trade would hinge on Brandon Weeden. If Weeden became a guy that you could see starting more than a year, the Browns would be more than happy with the deal. Quarterback for the forseeable future > star WR. Don't care how you cut that.
Didn't work out that way. I love Phil Taylor and he's a good player, but Julio Jones is a difference maker.
Marecic, Little, JMJ....
Atlanta won that deal by a mile.
To be fair though, had we taken Julio, we'd have Colt McCoy throwing to him.
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I was honestly amazed at how quickly the national media go on the "you know... this kind of makes sense" bandwagon... I fully expected weeks of being bashed by the Browns but once the immediate shock value was gone, a lot of the "experts" started talking about how this might be a great deal for the Browns.. Of course winning the game helped, I'm sure if we had lost 30-7 with 26 yards rushing it would have been different.
I wish Trent the best, first class guy from what I've seen... but we need the picks, we need a QB...
yebat' Putin
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To be fair though, had we taken Julio, we'd have Colt McCoy throwing to him.
Bleh.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
I was honestly amazed at how quickly the national media go on the "you know... this kind of makes sense" bandwagon... I fully expected weeks of being bashed by the Browns but once the immediate shock value was gone, a lot of the "experts" started talking about how this might be a great deal for the Browns.. Of course winning the game helped, I'm sure if we had lost 30-7 with 26 yards rushing it would have been different.
I wish Trent the best, first class guy from what I've seen... but we need the picks, we need a QB...
The game definitely had that potential.... and our rushing game wasn't dramatically better than that 26 yds. Two of our longest runs were the Fake Punt and the reverse with Gordon. Aside from that , Obi Wan had a single 22yd run and a 1 yd run. Everything else combined netted us.... exactly 26 yds.
The gimmick plays and Gordon were the difference.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Quote:
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For some reason I bought into the notion we were tanking the season,
I still believe that we are, especially if we trade anybody else.
First, thanks for putting the board back up!
Secondly, I disagree. I don't think you tank the season by running fake punts and fake FGs. I originally thought we were, but the way they played last weekend proved me wrong.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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For some reason I bought into the notion we were tanking the season,
I still believe that we are, especially if we trade anybody else.
First, thanks for putting the board back up!
Secondly, I disagree. I don't think you tank the season by running fake punts and fake FGs. I originally thought we were, but the way they played last weekend proved me wrong.
I do, because I don't think this franchise can even tank a season without screwing it up 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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BpG. Thanks for posting this:
web page
Great article on the lack of vision that Richardson had last year. Maybe that can be coached, but it sure displayed his lack of seeing the hole.
It also restored some of the faith I have in this FO.
you're Welcome.
Some of those holes, especially the one against Pittsburgh. Absolutely unacceptable to miss them. Everyone is real quick to blame the O-line, meanwhile this guys getting stacked up for 2 yard gain, when he literally had a 7 yard gap to run through.
When I saw that article, any doubt I had about the trade was erased.
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Haha, fair enough. Maybe if we go all in to try to tank the season, we'll win the Super Bowl!!!
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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So is T Rich and Eddie Lacey just a product of a far superior offensive line at Alabama? Mediocre talent and a super line?
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Quote:
I was honestly amazed at how quickly the national media go on the "you know... this kind of makes sense" bandwagon... I fully expected weeks of being bashed by the Browns but once the immediate shock value was gone, a lot of the "experts" started talking about how this might be a great deal for the Browns.. Of course winning the game helped, I'm sure if we had lost 30-7 with 26 yards rushing it would have been different.
I wish Trent the best, first class guy from what I've seen... but we need the picks, we need a QB...
I feel the same way.
I feel like a lot of these "experts" or analysts or whatever you want to call them don't watch the Browns. They might watch condensed versions of our games, but they don't sit down and watch play after play after play.
Being transplanted, I get a lot of the same stuff from Bears fans or other fans. They all thought "Colt was a good QB" yet none of them watched him play with the Browns and just went off what they saw in college.
Therefore, nobody really watched Trent, so I thought they'd all figure Indy was getting the Alabama Trent and not the sub 4 ypc Trent that we had.
I can't blame people for not watching the Browns because the product has been bad, and we're never on MNF or SNF or the late afternoon Sunday game that everyone watches when their game is over. It almost never happens. I just hate when they make blanket statements about the team without really knowing the facts.
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Quote:
Quote:
BpG. Thanks for posting this:
web page
Great article on the lack of vision that Richardson had last year. Maybe that can be coached, but it sure displayed his lack of seeing the hole.
It also restored some of the faith I have in this FO.
I seriously believe that anyone who thinks we were taken by the Colts in that trade, really needs to look at the article in this link. Sure not all rb's are going to see the hole on every play, but the huge hole that was shown against the Steelers could have been walked through by a blind man.
Now lets hope that Banbardi can get that 1st rounder right next year. Also here's hoping that Indy falls to pieces this year, in the hopes of improving that pick.
you're Welcome.
Some of those holes, especially the one against Pittsburgh. Absolutely unacceptable to miss them. Everyone is real quick to blame the O-line, meanwhile this guys getting stacked up for 2 yard gain, when he literally had a 7 yard gap to run through.
When I saw that article, any doubt I had about the trade was erased.
And the next head coach is ......
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Yeah Punch, I was in total shock.. Then, like you, I had time to process things and I wondered, what did we really give up? TRich is a good kid. Seems to be smart, certainly showed class with the trade and how he spoke of the team, FO, Coach and players and the fans. Some guys aren't smart enough to do things that way. So we did lose a quality young man.
But, did we really lose anything that was going to cause total chaos for our O? Until Sunday when I saw us without him, I had a few questions, then they just went away.
We appear to be a better team without him and Weeden in the lineup.
And we got another 1st round draft pick that can either be used to move up to get a QB (is there one worthy?) or we can add two quality 1st round players.
At this point, I'd guess Weeden will be the next big departure.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Hall of Famer
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So is T Rich and Eddie Lacey just a product of a far superior offensive line at Alabama? Mediocre talent and a super line?
Too early for Eddie Lacy but Mark Ingram and Trent Richardson as examples would be hard to argue against that logic. Trent seemed to have all the tools, but clearly something was not right.
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
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For some reason I bought into the notion we were tanking the season,
I still believe that we are, especially if we trade anybody else.
First, thanks for putting the board back up!
Secondly, I disagree. I don't think you tank the season by running fake punts and fake FGs. I originally thought we were, but the way they played last weekend proved me wrong.
I do, because I don't think this franchise can even tank a season without screwing it up
LOL ... I agree, the Browns should have tried to tank every season.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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After 24 hours to let the shock recede, I was good with the trade, mainly for the reasons you offered, punch.
1st-round pick aside, TRich wasn't a standout for the Browns, didn't fit in with Chud's offence, and has shown not much in the way of potentially being an elite back.
Two seasons ago McGahee went to a Pro Bowl. He might be able to help us.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Legend
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Legend
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Two seasons ago McGahee went to a Pro Bowl. He might be able to help us.
Zero chance of that.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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All Pro
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I agree with that.... if he can just average 3.7 we won't miss a beat.
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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Legend
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We should just make Aubrey our starting running back, dude averages like 40 yards a carry.
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I really want to see him used this week. if we have RB by committee he needs to be part of it.
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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Two seasons ago McGahee went to a Pro Bowl. He might be able to help us.
Zero chance of that.
Zero??? You aren't even giving him a 3 per cent chance? Or even 2 per cent?
gmstrong -----------------
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The belated TRich trade thread
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