DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Weeden on what he learned from sideline: "Don't get hurt"

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I don't think there is any doubt, after what Weeden has been told for the last 10 days, that he'll get the ball out quicker.

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This would suggest that Weeden is making conscious decisions to hold the ball, and that a week's worth of coaching is going to fix the problem.

My stance is that Weeden has been coached on this problem in the NFL for a season and a half. This isn't a simple fix where a coach says "Hey, Pokie, get the ball out quicker." Weeden lost his job in no small part because of this issue. Had he been able to overcome it sooner he would have.

Weeden isn't going to improve significantly. He's a 30-year old QB who can't mentally pull the trigger in a league that requires him to.

He shows the talent to make any NFL throw, but he also shows that he's got a slow NFL mind and his accuracy is shoddy.

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There is no doubt in my mind, though, that this game will make or break Weeden's career in the NFL.

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I would note that his career was already broken. He'd been benched in favor of Hoyer. If he has a good game it won't suddenly create an impression that he's turned the corner, and a bad game won't get him benched because there's no point to turning to Campbell, as the team has to hope beyond hope that the light may come on.

I won't say Weeds has become a laughingstock in the NFL, but when the announcers and analysts clown him for being the slowest releasing pocket QB in the NFL, that tells anyone who doesn't have blinders on that his career is already busted.

There's always the slight chance a player can turn the corner, but it's going to take a string of solid starts before anyone takes Weeds seriously. There's just too much bad tape on a 30-year old to suggest proof says he's getting markedly better.

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There's always the slight chance a player can turn the corner, but it's going to take a string of solid starts before anyone takes Weeds seriously. There's just too much bad tape on a 30-year old to suggest proof says he's getting markedly better.

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So you're saying there's a chance!?

Or are you just giving yourself an "out" again in case he actually succeeds?

Fence Rider

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2. There are miles apart in your two selections. The difference between "multiple picks" and "plays great" are two ends of the spectrum. I believe the outcome will actually be somewhere in the middle of the two, not one of those two extremes.

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There may be miles separating the two, but do you think that he will--or won't--make bad decisions if he gets rid of it quicker? In other words, do you think he can read coverages accurately while doing it quickly?

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Two questions:

1. Do you think he gets the ball out quicker this game?

2. If you answered yes to the first question, do you think he throws multiple picks or do you think he plays great and leads us to a win?

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1. Maybe on occasion. But I think if he had the mental quickness to do that he would have been doing it already.

I must confess that I've wondered/hoped if maybe he is reading coverages ok but is hesitant to trust what he sees so he holds onto the ball too long. Throwing the late ball inevitably goes to the wrong guy, falls incomplete or gets picked. Any of those makes it a bad decision.

If if it is the case that he's typically seeing the coverages quickly enough but lacks the confidence to pull the trigger then maybe he can force himself to just trust what he sees and trust his receivers. If so, he could be quicker with his release.

But even as I type this I'm aware that it is pure wishful thinking in a best case scenario kind of way because I want/need so badly for him to improve.

2. Since my answer to No.1 was a "no" with a tentative "hopefully maybe" I'd have to answer this one with a probably he throws multiple picks but with a tentative "hopefully maybe" that it can lead to some big plays that "hopefully maybe" would overcome the picks and could result in a win.

As Chud said, he has confidence in Weeden by reason being that he's all he's got, then likewise I have hope in him by reason being he's all we've got.

j/c

Brandon Weeden makes Cleveland Browns "definitely an easier team to beat'' Steelers safety Clark says in interview

CLEVELAND -- Browns quarterback Brandon Weeden had to overcome boos from his home fans last week, and was ripped a day later by Steelers Pro Bowl safety Ryan Clark, who proclaimed on national television that "Cleveland is definitely an easier team to beat with Brandon Weeden at quarterback.''

During in interview on ESPN's FirstTake the morning after Weeden pulled out the 37-24 victory over the Bills, Clark explained that his winless Steelers can still win the division, because the 3-2 Browns -- tied for first heading into Sunday's game against the Lions at FirstEnergy Stadium -- have Weeden back in the saddle.

"We're in a division where right now the Cleveland Browns are leading at 3-2, and they're an extremely good team, but they do have cracks,'' said Clark, whose Steelers are 0-4. "Brandon Weeden is now the quarterback. I think it's a team we can definitely compete with and beat.''

Clark, who will face the Browns No. 24 in Cleveland and Dec. 29 in Pittsburgh, wouldn't let up on Weeden throughout the interview, conducted by Skip Bayless, a Weeden supporter.

"For me, I feel like he's easier to defend,'' said Clark. "I think we'll do a good job against him, being able to confuse him, make him hold the ball and get some pressure, so Cleveland is definitely an easier team to beat with Brandon Weeden at quarterback.''

Clark wouldn't even give Weeden credit for coming from behind to beat the Bills with some big plays down the stretch, including a 47-yard pass to Greg Little and a 37-yard touchdown strike to Josh Gordon.

"You can obviously see, Brandon Weeden was ready to go (vs. the Bills with his sprained thumb), and they didn't want to put him in,'' said Clark. "They still wanted Brian Hoyer, and if it's not for (returner) Travis Benjamin being electrifying in the first half, I think they still lose that game.''

He also suggested that offensive coordinator Norv Turner had to simplify things for Weeden.



"I give a lot of that credit to Norv Turner as well,'' Clark said. "He took the guesswork out for him. He made some big throws downfield early, got his confidence up and once his confidence was going, he made throws down the end of the game, and in the stretch of the fourth quarter that allowed them to win.

"I don't think it's a physical thing. It's definitely not a lack of talent with Brandon Weeden. We see more and more with these spread quarterbacks coming out of college though, it takes them awhile to adjust to the NFL game, adjust to being under center, staying in the pocket and I think those are things Brandon is still working on right now.

But Clark thinks Weeden -- who turns 30 on Monday -- may be too old to catch on to the pro game.

"At his age, though, it may be too late to actually master these things,'' he said. "He may be maxed out as good as he's going to get.''

Clark stressed he'd fear the Browns more if Brian Hoyer had't been lost for the season with a torn right anterior cruciate ligament. Hoyer, who went 3-0 including the Bills victory in which he played only a series and a half, will undergo surgery next week at the Cleveland Clinic, and coach Rob Chudzinski said he hopes to have him back for organized team activities in the spring.

"I feel like Brian Hoyer came in and he gave them first of all a spark with his story, but also he was a guy we had in Pittsburgh last year,'' said Clark. "He was running the scout team reps and there were times when you didn't want to try to intercept the ball even when you knew where it was going because it had such velocity. It was always on the mark. We felt like he was a guy going into this year that we would try to sign in the offseason and get back. Obviously he went to Arizona and played there last year, and then Cleveland made a smart pickup by getting him in.''

If Weeden is to prove Clark and the rest of his critics wrong today against the Lions, he'll have to get the ball out quickly against their relentless defensive front.

According to ESPN Stats and Info, Weeden was holding the ball for 4.3 seconds compared to 2.8 for Hoyer heading into the Bills game. Afterwards, profootballfocus.com had him ranked sixth-slowest in the NFL with a release time of 3.12 seconds.

“I don’t know who has the stopwatch and who’s looking at it,'' Turner said of the release figures. "Some of it is by design. Some of it is by who we’re playing, what we’re trying to get done. There’s certainly the same emphasis.We do need to get the ball out.”

Turner added that, "it’s not physical, it has to do obviously with decision-making and giving him things where he has the option to get the ball out quick and emphasizing that."



In his three games, Weeden has been sacked 16 times, which is tied for third-most in the NFL. But projected over five games, it's 27 times, which would be first in the NFL. Hoyer was sacked six times in his two-plus games, which would be about 15 over five. Miami's Ryan Tannehill leads the NFL with 24 times sacked.

"(Weeden) can speed up the process when the play's not there and get the ball out of his hands quicker and that would help our protection a little bit, but in some cases it's not going to help the result of the play,'' said Turner. "The thing that was important to me is when Brandon got comfortable playing again, he made all the key plays down the stretch. He made plays throwing the ball deep to get us in the end zone when were down by seven. He made key plays in drives to get us down there and key plays to get the second field goal that gave us a chance to play the type of defense that we've been playing."

Turner said the rule of thumb is to release the ball "when he sets his feet and steps up in the pocket, you want the ball to be out of there. it doesn’t always work that way, but generally if you do, if he has options to get the ball to, you’d like to get it out of his hand. Brandon made two big plays the other day by taking a little extra time and holding the ball and getting the ball thrown. you’ve just got to go play is what you have to do.''

Weeden will face a formidable Lions defensive front that includes two-time Pro Bowl defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh, rookie end Ziggy Ansah, who leads the team with 3.5 sacks, and defensive tackle Nick Fairley. The Lions only have 10 sacks this season, but have rattled some good quarterbacks, including Jay Cutler. In a 40-32 victory over the Bears, they pressured Cutler into three interceptions, sacked him three times and stripped him once.

"From a second from a secondary standpoint, I know they’re gonna be back there, hopefully getting him to hold the ball,'' said Suh. "We always make it a point, no matter who we’re going against, to shut them down and get them to hold the ball and be in their face as fast as possible, very similar to how we went against the Chicago Bears. They were getting the ball out fast the first three games and we got an opportunity to get after that particular quarterback in Cutler. We look forward to doing the same thing against Weeden''

The Lions are also superb in three other key defensive categories:

* They're No. 2 in the NFL in third-down defense, allowing 17-of-63 conversions for 27%. Weeden completed 3-of-9 third down attempts against the Bills and was sacked three of his five times on third down. Overall, he's 33rd out of 34 in the NFL with two picks and no TDs on third down for a 35.9 rating. However, he converted a huge third down against the Bills, an 18-yard pass to Gordon that led to a field goal for a 30-24 edge.

* They're tied for fifth in the NFL with 11 takeaways, and are second with eight interceptions.

* They're third in the NFL in red zone defense, allowing just a 33.3-percent conversion rate.

"They create a lot of turnovers on third down,'' said Turner. "You're not going to convert every third down. When guys get into trouble against Detroit, they think they have to make a miraculous play, then Detroit ends up getting a sack, sack-fumble or an interception -- and they're very good at it.''

Quarterback Jason Campbell, who will be the No. 2 on Sunday, said Weeden needs to understand he doesn't have to hit the big play all the time.

"We know he has a strong arm, but the home run isn't always going to be there,'' said Campbell. "I think he's starting to learn that. Some guys that may not have the same arm strength he has, they understand that they have to get it out quicker. A guy like him, he believes in his arm and he believes he can still throw the deep ball no matter what.''

Campbell said he was the same way when he was young.

"I always thought no matter what, I could throw the ball down the field and out-throw the defense,'' he said. "Sometimes the best thing to do is throw the ball away and live too see another day.

Campbell was one of several players, including Gordon and T.J. Ward, who calmed Weeden down on the sidelines last game.

"He went out there and the crowd started booing and he started pressing and wanting to do well,'' Campbell said. "I said, 'you have to block that out and just work yourself into the game. I said 'your defense is playing great, they're not giving up anything, just get yourself into the flow. Don't try to win it on one or two plays.''

Once again, Weeden will be out to prove his many critics wrong.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/10/brandon_weeden_makes_cleveland.html

I would just remind Ryan Clark that Weeden is 1-1 against the Steelers in his career. That's better than most Browns QBs ..... and I expect that he will, at least, maintain a .500 record against them.

He's not wrong though.

He already looks like an idiot. He's always saying stupid stuff. He's still not wrong.

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"At his age, though, it may be too late to actually master these things,'' he said. "He may be maxed out as good as he's going to get.''

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I see this all the time. I don't know if it's true or not. What evidence is there that increasing age correlates with decreasing ability to learn the game?

Clark is probably right that we might be an easier opponent to defend, but trying to beat our D might be a problem for the Steelers.

Anyway, he should probably not talk until they win a game.

That's a player, a veteran and a pretty stand up guy in Ryan Clark flat out saying Weeden is terrible, maxed out and makes us worse than the 3rd string, backup QB.


Crazy.

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He's not wrong though.

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Really ? your going to side with a freakin steeler....going to let him bash one of our players...Nothing worse than an 0-4 team bashing one of our guys...

That scum bag is talking out his ass... we haven't played them once yet... and take some damn pride in being a Browns fan...We are at the top of division.. not the bottom like they are... and I love it....

I get pissed at Weeden too... But as of now We got to beat the Lions....And if we do.... that's another step toward a winning season and winning attitude....

If some of you guys want to bash Weeden (and I do ) just don't agree with what a SQueeler says....We're going to kick their ass TWICE this season....

Deezy!

Way to step up!

It's just like family: we can trash each other all we want... but don't let the Hatfields say some mess about one of us McCoys.....

them's fightin' words!

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As for the comments by Clark, he's an ass, but he's a truthful ass.

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This reminds me of the quote by Joey Porter: "Browns are soft."

I hated him for saying that crap. I hated him for not only saying it, but I also hated him for the fact that what he said was true, at the time. Then, I 'came to Jesus':

If the Browns want to make this asshat look stupid, tey'll have shove his words back down his throat. Joey as lucky.... we never fielded a team that could actually do that, during his tenure in Pittsburgh. We were 'soft' when he said that... and there's no backing away from the harsh truth that moron spouted in that interview.

Our "Soldjah" (K2) actually extended the hand of friendship/respect to him after he made those statements... only to be dissed yet again by a thugpunk who was lucky enough to play for a team that had enough firepower to make him look good.


Ryan Clark isn't Joey Porter. AND- he's playing on a team that can boast an 0-4 record, to date. At this point, his mouth should be zippered more tightly than a gigolo with a case of the clap.

BUT- to the point of this thread:

Weedz has a skillset that will force Norv to actually earn the money he's being paid. Given his track record, I fully expect him to put Weedz in the best position to make the best of what he's got, talent-wise.

For the first time (in a long time), I trust the Browns coaching staff to move the chess pieces in such a way as to give us a chance to win every game we play. We've never had that before.

Bottom Line: We now have the horses to pull the plow through through any NFL-level game we play. Weeden won't be the sole reason we live or die, from week to week.

It's now the least of what we fans have always wanted, and now we seem to have it.

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I understand that we might not be looking at a QB who can "ride us to the promised land"... but I see a team that is able to carry its QB into the playoffs- be he Weeden or Campbell... and that's a damn sight better than we've recently seen.

We're tied for 1st place in the division, after the season's 1st quarter. We have tough but winnable games for the next 4 joints. 2-2 over the next four puts us still above .500 at the halftime.

Toader, My Dawg: a "one and done" question for you:

Despite Ryan Clark's comments, do you (as a fan/student of The Game first) see the Browns with any chance to reach the playoffs this year? With Weedz under center?

I can (Ravens, 2000) ... but I'd love to hear your thoughts on this take.

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I understand that we might not be looking at a QB who can "ride us to the promised land"... but I see a team that is able to carry its QB into the playoffs- be he Weeden or Campbell... and that's a damn sight better than we've recently seen.

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I don't know if I necessarily agree with that.

We still have to score, and move the ball. We have an extremely limited running game, and our defense isn't like the Bears defense that scores almost every week, and sometimes more than once in a game. Our defense may be very good, but in 2 of our wins we still allowed 27 and 24 points. With a run game that has scored only 1 rushing TD all season, we need the QB to do his part too. Your description sounds like the Niners in 2011 ... but they had a great, productive run game to go with their defense.They ran for 2044 yards, and 14 TD. We are on pace for 1264 rushing yards and 3 or 4 rushing TDs. We need the QB to play well if we are to win. He doesn't have to be Peyton Manning, but he also can't be Trent Dilfer. Our defense doesn't create turnovers at a great enough pace, and they don't score enough to carry a struggling offense consistently. We have won one game this year 17-6, and lost one 14-6. Other than that we have scored 31 and 37 (30 offensive points) in the 2 other wins. We might win a game here or there where we can score only 14 points ... or 17 .... but in most cases we are probably going to have to score 21-24+.The QB has to come through, at least to some degree, to get us there.

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Really ? your going to side with a freakin steeler....going to let him bash one of our players

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It's hard to argue with someone when they are right. We are worse with Weeden. Doesn't everyone already know that? I guess I can bash him for stating the obvious.

The funny thing is that Clark has never faced Hoyer as a member of the Browns, (and has only faced Weeden once) and has probably never seen Hoyer play beyond SportsCenter highlights. (especially given that we won't play them until November 24th)

So .... I think that was him just trying, somehow, to stir up crap. He should remember who is in last place, looking up at a 3 way tie involving the rest of the division.

j/c:

I guess it is expected that people ignore the truth of the message and instead passionately try to belittle the messenger. We've seen this same thing play out over and over and over on the boards.

Nah guys........Weeden isn't the problem, it's everyone who thinks--that he struggles reading coverages, has the playbook dummied down for him, struggles w/the mental part of the game, etc---who is wrong.

Deez,, tell me you think that weeden is a better fit than Hoyer was looking to be? I think that Weeden under center may well weaken the offense to a degree.

Now, this guy plays on a team that has yet to win a game this year. And they've looked pretty bad in those losses. So he's got no room to talk. And they haven't faced our D yet.

Yes vers everyone in this thread was praising Weeden and bashing the rest of the Browns. We have our Tom Heckert headbands and our Mike Holmgren underoos just waiting for someone to make a mistake so we can bash Banner and Lombardi. The Clique strikes again.

Now you can tell me to kiss your arse and I'll buy the next brew lol

No Mourg, but they were ignoring the issues. Same as always.

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Our "Soldjah" (K2) actually extended the hand of friendship/respect to him after he made those statements...

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He sure did! Here's the "olive branch": (I couldn't find a Youtube clip)

http://www.dailymotion.com

Their is a chance Weeden can become successful and their is a chance that he will continue to look pathetic.

I don't take either side of the ball on this one, because I don't trust Weeden but I understand what this amount of criticism can also do for a professional athlete.

Once again, another doubter. If the light was ever going to go on for Weeden, it'll be today. I would not put money on it happening, nor would I put money on him becoming a starter in the NFL, but this is a unique situation where a guy can completely turn his career around.

Hope for the best, expect the worst.

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No. Here let me help you. . . . what you wrote is ""Nah guys........Weeden isn't the problem, it's everyone who thinks--that he struggles reading coverages, has the playbook dummied down for him, struggles w/the mental part of the game, etc---who is wrong.""

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LOL........your reading comprehension is the problem, tough guy. But, keep talking real tough. Odds are that I will get scared and submit to your terrifying presence.