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Arps wrote this on another thread: Quote:
I see a lot of guys saying Hoyer isnt the long term answer. Why? I know its only 2 games, but he looks better than a lot of guys. What is it that makes folks think he cant grow into the "long term" guy?
I have to admit I have been thinking about it a bit after the Bengal game. I saw guys like DC, Daman, BpG, and others wondering the same things out loud. So, let's discuss it.
I think there are some reasons to believe he isn't the guy:
--Where was he drafted? Heck, was he drafted?
--How many years has he been a back-up?
--Hasn't he been let go by two teams?
--He lacks experience.
--His physical stature and arm are not overwhelming.
--Does anything ever come easy for Cleveland?
Some reasons to believe he could be the guy:
--Tom Jackson said on ESPN last night that Hoyer is delivering the ball faster than any other qb in the league. That leads to some other things---
--He is reading coverages.
--He sees the field.
--He is not taking as many sacks.
--His arm is strong enough. It's not great, but the ball gets there w/some zip on most throws.
--He has quite a bit of poise.
--He seems to have "it." Players are responding to him. Players seem to be playing w/a sense of hope and are more enthusiastic.
--He has been good on 3rd downs.
--He has lead TD drives when we needed TDs.
--He is pretty darn accurate.
So, is he the guy?
I don't know. I doubt it. I am hoping that he is. I didn't think there was any way he was the guy until I actually saw him play. At least I give him a chance now. I don't think he is a guy that the fans and media are going to be very patient with. He'll never receive the excuses of a guy like Weeden. He's gotta play well early and maintain it. A couple of bad games and the masses will turn on him quickly.
I wanna believe, but why wasn't he drafted higher? Why did two teams give up on him? Why wasn't he a hot commodity? Does anything ever work out well for the Browns?
I don't know. He probably isn't the guy. Maybe defenses adjust and take away what he does well. But, I have to admit that I do have a little hope for him and that excites me. Can you guys imagine how pretty we would be sitting if Hoyer is the guy?
We will have two first round picks, one second round pick, two thirds, two fourths........and free agency. Are you stinking kidding me? We could be address so many needs. Dang man...........that is so exciting.
It probably won't happen, but Hoyer looks to be at least a solid back-up. And if he's more...........we just hit the jackpot.
Thanks Mike Lombardi!!!
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I think the reason nobody has seen him is because of the teams he was on. He sat behind Brady and learned for 4 years, then last year he was picked up by Arizona I think and was there just three weeks and then started against San Fran. He had a decent game. Arizona then picks up Palmer, and Pittsburgh brings him in. He is not replacing Ben, and with little time on the field with mostly third stringers, just as he did in NE, he goes unnoticed.
Now Lombardi brings him here, where again he is playing only with the third stringers. I myself saw him at the family fun night and thought he was not that good, but, he again was playing with nobodies. Then in the last preseason game, while still playing with back ups e looks pretty good, and IMO showed something to Norv that he liked. I honestly believe it was Turner who decided to start him.
Just as guys like Kolb sit for years and then get a shot, they look like a player that can play well. The thing is for every guy like Schaub, there is a Flynn. The thing with Hoyer, is he is just now getting his chance to play with the starters. I have to wonder if the coaching staff may be just as surprised as many of us are.
The thing is, many back up QBs fade away behind good starters never being able to show what they have learned. Some do, like Kolb, only to show that they were good in that system only. Others such as say a young Brady, only get the chance due to injury. We may never have seen Brady if Bledsoe would have maintained a high level, and didn't get hurt.
I have no answer to which one Hoyer is going to be, but right now, IMO he looks to be the best we got. If he continues to accel, and even improves, I don't think it is such a far fetched thing for him to become a quality player. I hope the staff continues to give him a chance to succeed, he just might be a huge surprise.
Many always claimed rookie QBs need to sit and learn, but in these days of instant gratification needed in every aspect of life, and players like Luck coming along, things have changed quickly. I believe Hoyer was not that good out of college. I also believe that him being tutored Brady has helped him improve. Five years of sitting and learning might just be exactly what he needed. Time will tell, but I would never say never as to him becoming "the" guy for now.
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Nice thread Vers and something I have been thinking and talking a lot about. I think you hit on a lot of good points.
If you told me that a UDFA would be starting for the Browns, I probably wouldn't be too surprised. Add him to the list of 19 starters since our return. When I see what's happened the last two games with him at the helm though and some of these (to me) insane/strange moves...something is working.
If he started for us last year or the year before, would we have the same success? I'm not sure. What I do know is that these past two games have been a BLAST to watch. Between our D just lighting people up and our offense not being not only overly nauseating to watch like usual but not nauseating at all, I really like what I'm seeing.
Hoyer is no Brady (or is he?) but their stories are similar. Maybe the kid was in the right place at the right time and really ready to lead this football team.
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A lot of good points and I agree w/almost all of them. I was just trying to present opinions/facts on both sides. Trying to set the tone to be rational.
I really like your point about Brady teaching Hoyer things. Hoyer often mentions Brady when talking about playing qb. I think he listened to the master. I think Brady made a huge impact on him. Does that mean he'll be good? No, but it's something. Good point.
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Something i've been thinking of as well and i concur, if QB isn't a need (and thats a big unknown right now) we are looking great for the offseason push. Couple of things: Quote:
I wanna believe, but why wasn't he drafted higher? Why did two teams give up on him? Why wasn't he a hot commodity? Does anything ever work out well for the Browns?
Well....good QB's as we know do develop after a poor draft. Tom Brady is the one peddled about of course but the facts are that success percentage does drop off the later you go (or undrafted also) but anomalies do happen.
Secondly....all Brady's back ups don't stick. The reason, is of course, Tom Brady. Longevity in New England doesn't happen, the Arizona situation needs more scrutiny than New england. what was his tenure like there? Who was he behind, what was the offence, how did he fare in practice and pre season games and his opportunity to start?
How much opportunity as he really had? He was #3 right through our training camp also, i don't believe the light has suddenly come on for this guy, there had to be something. For the guys that attended camp, did Hoyer look like he does now?
Worst case scenario Vers, at this current stage, in a QB needy league we've seen people sell the farm for the next big thing such as the production line of Brady back ups or Kolb or the kid that bounced to Seattle and then the Raiders etc. I tell you if we do target one of the shiny new QB's in next years draft, Hoyer is doing nothing but sky rocketing his trade value here if we don't go with him; someone will pay us 
About time we caught some breaks man.
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He might be the long term guy if he manages to do well for a while. Not to be captain obvious here folks but the only answer to this question is time. How he does next week and the next and the next. We've had a few flashes in the panses and we should be wary at this point of even thinking "franchise guy" after two wholle good games. Well, oneand a half if we're honest. Let's chill and just see how it unfolds. I have my hunch he's Kelly Holcolm all over again but hey, Holcolm was a darn good back up and teams need those.
Last edited by 10YrOvernightSuccess; 09/30/13 07:52 PM.
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Quote:
What I do know is that these past two games have been a BLAST to watch.
Man, that is so, so true. I haven't had this much fun watching games for a long time. There is something there.
I think it is H-O-P-E. And we all know that man needs hope to survive.
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I think I can answer a couple of these questions: Quote:
I wanna believe, but why wasn't he drafted higher? Why did two teams give up on him? Why wasn't he a hot commodity? Does anything ever work out well for the Browns?
He wasn't very good in college (he didn't get drafted). But many player aren't at their best right out of college. Sometimes it takes a little longer to develop.
The Patriots gave up on him because they drafted Ryan Mallett and didn't want to carry three QBs. The Cardinals cut him because they traded for Carson Palmer. He was also on the Steelers for two weeks in 2012.
He wasn't a hot commodity because what career backup is a hot commodity?
Stuff does work out well for the Browns. Josh Cribbs is a recent example. Also, one would say that after the string of disasters eventually something would have to swing in our direction.
Another thing, I was watching the NFL Playbook show on NFL Network the other night. Sterling Sharpe was breaking down Hoyer's game against the Vikings and he said that Hoyer's two TD throws to Cameron were just as good as any throw Brett Favre ever made (or something along those lines).
If Hoyer is "the guy," we are set up brilliantly for the future. We have a ton of draft picks that we can use to supplement Hoyer and turn our defense into one of the best in the league (if it isn't already). He definitely looks like he can be at least a league average QB.
Hoyer has only started two games for us. It is still too early to tell if he is "the guy." But we have to ride him while he is hot and hope he doesn't cool off.
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Quote:
Secondly....all Brady's back ups don't stick. The reason, is of course, Tom Brady. Longevity in New England doesn't happen, the Arizona situation needs more scrutiny than New england. what was his tenure like there? Who was he behind, what was the offence, how did he fare in practice and pre season games and his opportunity to start?
Another good point. Very good.
So far, so good guys. Well done.
Oh.........and the idea for this thread was not mine. It was Arps. He deserves the credit.
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I just wanted to add that Lombardi will look like a genius if Hoyer is good. He has been talking him up for years and now Hoyer has fallen into his lap. Kind of amazing.
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There are some athletes that just don't look like an elite performer in practice situations. Give them the opportunity and the pressure of a bona fide athletic event, they are gamers that know how and will do what it takes to win. The likes of Drew Brees, Brian Sipe and Kurt Warner come to mind. Does Hoyer fall into this mold? Time will tell.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Great topic, great questions.
He is our best chance to win, that's all we really know. He definitely has earned the job, and at worst he becomes a solid, quality back-up.
If we do find ourselves in need of a QB next year, Hoyer will likely lead us to a draft position that will make it difficult to choose a top QB, even with Indy's pick. We may end up with a second-tier guy that we hope turns into a stud, a kind of a surprise.
Now, don't get me wrong. I do not advocate losing or tanking, and I stopped listening to the local sports radio guys because they are convinced trading TRich and his 3.5 ypc meant we were tanking the season but our coaches are screwing up by winning. I am thrilled to have won these games, and I am enjoying watching this team now. If Hoyer leads us to a poor draft spot, then I am good with that.
For now, he is the guy.
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he made 3 passes yesterday that makes me think he can do it. The mid level cross he threw late in the game to Gordon was a Peyton Manning type throw. This was the same throw he was picked on last week with the backer slipping into coverage. He was patient enough to wait for Gordon to come free of the inside backer in his drop back zone.
If you can throw an accurate slant on the 3 step you can be a force in this league and folks, Hoyer does it as good as anyone out there.
The little swing pass to OB was special. I know its a throw that all QBs should make but its also a throw that is very easily overthrown or underthrown and picked. Its the same touch he has shown on the tear drops to Cameron.
Most important however has been his ability to come up with the big drive at the end of games.
I have my concerns with arm, upside, to many miscues on offense. Its just a wait and see and let it play out. I know he has been in the league awhile but he is really like the rookie QB that has been groomed and most have forgotten lol but it does take time for that QB to come into his own. He doesnt have the game day experience.
I think this is an incredibly strong roster and as i said before the season, weeden does anything and this is a 10 win team. I still feel this team has a strong enough cast to be an 8+ winner. We get Lava back and then we will see how the run game works. Get a run game to go with this top 3 defense and Hoyer avoids mistakes like he did last week and he could easily be in the Eli and Flacco category. Not great but enough to win a super bowl if everything else is going well.
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Until he proves he's not the "GUY", he's the guy IMHO. I don't really care about the past because he is really an unknown commodity. He wasn't going to start over Brady, Palmer (who the cards paid top dollar for) or Big Ben (even though he was there to back up Charlie Batch when Ben was down). Currently he's playing a very solid ball and seems to be getting better. Even if he loses a few games (because great QBs never lose  ) he should still get the start for the foreseeable future. I wouldn't mind Weeden being traded at this point if we can get some value out of him, however I think he still deserves a look by somebody if not us. I think if you cut both QBs tomorrow somebody picks Hoyer up the fastest. JMHO I like his story too, a browns fan (Bernie is his hero), 3 years behind Brady and really never got a decent shot anywhere. Not to mention that he is only 28 and still in his prime. oh and btw, he reminds me of Brian Sipe. After 2 starts I'm not ready to say he is the one, but I'm not ready to say he's not either. For now he is the starter and I think he's doing a good job. AND HE IS WINNING, which is a big plus  . So let's just watch for a while and talk about him more when we know what he truly is...
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 09/30/13 08:31 PM.
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More good posts, guys.
Mourg...........Super Bowl? Nah man.
Cap.........are people really saying we are screwing up by winning? Man, I said from the start that we were NOT tanking the season. Got ridiculed for it. That is why I started the Tank This threads. I don't want to throw this thread off topic, but are they still fighting that fight?
Back to Hoyer.
Mourg, I loved the slant pass to Gordon, too. Also, the late game drives.
Love the comparison to Sipe. You're right. Hoyer doesn't look like the prototypical QB. However, I do love his body language and how guys respond to him. The entire team looks energized. Anyone else notice that?
cfrs---------how exactly did we acquire Hoyer? Street free agent? We didn't have to give anything up for him............or did we?
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Free Agent off the street I think.
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Tom Brady's back ups also haven't done a whole lot as starters once they leave me England
I was wondering as well if he could become the guy.... I haven't seen him play (hope to Thursday) but was happy to see the ints cleaned up this week
And even if he's not th man I think we qt least found someone who can come off the bench... As a browns fan I keep waiting for him to blow up and for us to win just enough games to get the 6th pick or something where we'd have to trade up to get a qb
But I'd love it if we didn't have to go qb this off season
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I'm saying that, Hoyer could possibly be "the guy"... but at the same time it's possible he's not. I'll hold out judgement through the whole season.
He looks like he has all the tools to be a good QB, we'll see how they hold up through the season
If he is... great, bring in 2 massive offensive weapons in the offseason to make the offense even more dangerous...
If not... package the firsts and move up.
The name on the back of the Jersey changed, but the plan stayed the same.
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Quote:
cfrs---------how exactly did we acquire Hoyer? Street free agent? We didn't have to give anything up for him............or did we?
The Cardinals cut him, he went through waivers unclaimed, and then we signed him as a street free agent. The Cardinals tendered him with a second round pick in the off-season which is means he was getting paid pretty well for a backup, which is probably why they cut him.
Quote:
The Arizona Cardinals on Monday cut quarterback Brian Hoyer, who had been tendered at a second-round level.
Hoyer would have cost a team a second-round draft pick as a result of his tender if he was signed to an offer sheet during the period to sign restricted free agents. He was scheduled to make $2,023,000 in 2013.
The 27-year-old Hoyer, who spent three seasons as a backup to Tom Brady in New England, was claimed on waivers by the Cardinals late last season and started the team's season finale, becoming the fourth quarterback to start for Arizona in 2012.
He finished last season with 330 yards, with one touchdown and two interceptions, completing 30 of 53 pass attempts in two games.
The Cardinals, however, traded for Carson Palmer and signed Drew Stanton this offseason, pushing Hoyer down the depth chart at quarterback. Arizona also has Ryan Lindley, who was drafted by the team in 2012, at the position.
The Cardinals also announced they have signed second-round pick Kevin Minter, as well as center Adam Bice and quarterback Caleb TerBush.
The Cardinals used the 45th overall pick in this year's draft to select Minter, a linebacker from LSU who was a finalist for the Butkus Award for the nation's top linebacker.
Bice and TerBush were undrafted rookie free agents who participated in Arizona's rookie minicamp last week.
Link to the above article
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Brian Hoyer's release from the Arizona Cardinals, reported Monday, clears $2 million in salary-cap room while reflecting significant roster changes at quarterback since Hoyer started in Week 17 last season.
The team released Kevin Kolb, released John Skelton, acquired Drew Stanton and acquired Carson Palmer in remaking the position.
Hoyer, tendered by the Cardinals as a restricted free agent, was once a fallback in case the team could not add a clearly defined starter. Palmer's arrival by trade signaled Hoyer's likely departure from the roster, particularly after Stanton received a $2 million signing bonus.
Financial realities made keeping Hoyer unrealistic. Palmer's contract counts $4 million against the salary cap in 2013. That is a modest figure for a starter, but Kolb's deal is counting the same amount. That is because some of the money paid to Kolb previously had not yet counted against the cap. Rules require Arizona to account for that money even after releasing him.
Five quarterbacks will count against the Cardinals' cap in 2013 even though only three remain on the roster. Releasing Hoyer had no negative cap consequences because he had received no guaranteed money. Releasing him meant subtracting from the cap equation the $2 million in salary he would have earned.
Ryan Lindley is the only quarterback remaining on the roster from last season.
Link to the second article.
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Quote:
I think there are some reasons to believe he isn't the guy:
--Where was he drafted? Heck, was he drafted? = Doesn't Matter
--How many years has he been a back-up? = Doesn't Matter in fact it can be viewed as a plus.
--Hasn't he been let go by two teams? = Doesn't Matter
--He lacks experience. = Doesn't Matter
--His physical stature and arm are not overwhelming. = Doesn't Matter unless it limits his ability which I haven't witnessed.
--Does anything ever come easy for Cleveland? = Heck No.
Some reasons to believe he could be the guy:
--Tom Jackson said on ESPN last night that Hoyer is delivering the ball faster than any other qb in the league. That leads to some other things--- = If he's throwing the ball ala Anderson regardless of the field, based on pre-snap read, then this might be a bad thing. More games is the only way to tell.
--He is reading coverages. = Its early. Lets see how he does once teams have 4-5-6 games to study.
--He sees the field. = All 3 points on this side are pretty similar. See above.
--He is not taking as many sacks. = Definately appears to feel the pressure.
--His arm is strong enough. It's not great, but the ball gets there w/some zip on most throws. = I have not seen a glaring weakness here.
--He has quite a bit of poise. = So far so good!
--He seems to have "it." Players are responding to him. Players seem to be playing w/a sense of hope and are more enthusiastic. = As above and again a similar type of "positive" - So far so good.
--He has been good on 3rd downs. = 100%
--He has lead TD drives when we needed TDs. = 100%
--He is pretty darn accurate. = So far so good.
SEE COMMENTS ADDED TO YOUR QUOTES ABOVE.
The true barometer will only come with games played. The more game tape teams have on him, the more of a challenge it will be for him to continue to look and play as well as he has done so far. . . .
Biggest negatives for me were the 3 horrendous INT's in his game against MIN. If he does that "frequently" - he sure as heck aint the guy.
Biggest positives - poise/command - timing/touch - 4th Q drives to win games.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Quote:
I'm saying that, Hoyer could possibly be "the guy"... but at the same time it's possible he's not. I'll hold out judgement through the whole season.
He looks like he has all the tools to be a good QB, we'll see how they hold up through the season
If he is... great, bring in 2 massive offensive weapons in the offseason to make the offense even more dangerous...
If not... package the firsts and move up.
The name on the back of the Jersey changed, but the plan stayed the same.
To the point and correct. Well done.
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Excellent information. Thanks.
That actually makes me a feel a little bit more hopeful. Seems like it was a financial decision along w/new coaches coming in.
Maybe we got lucky, guys???
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Quote:
All 3 points on this side are pretty similar
No kidding?
Perhaps that is why I wrote this:
Quote:
That leads to some other things
you know.........right before I made those three points. 
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well, he definitely has time on his side to be a legitimate Franchise QB. been in the league for 5 years and still is 2 years younger than weeden...that seemed really weird typing out.
i wanna believe. i do, but we have been burnt so many times before.
but honestly, i'm going to look at it like this: Thursday Night. the NATION will be watching this game. its going to be a SC highlight of the night game. i wanna see how he performs when the entire country is watching.
i know its not a really good reason, but performing on a bigger stage to me is just as important as any other 1 pm game.
the bills secondary is weak. their DLine is good. their D is a couple notches lower than the bengals, so in theory, you're suppose to be able to beat weaker competition. he's already beaten 2 playoff teams back to back. so lets see if he steps up and post some great numbers against a weaker D, or plays down to their level.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Thursday Night games are always wildcards. Crazy stuff happens with the short week.
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Is their secondary that weak?
--They are 23rd in passing yards. Not very good.
--They are 18th in pts. per game. Around average.
--They are first in interceptions. That's very good.
I wouldn't say they stink, but that is just by stats. I really don't know that much about them. Any knowledge from posters would be appreciated.
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One advantage he has is that he got to work behind Tom Brady in New England for 3 years. He came into the league as an UDFA, managed to make the team, and got to watch how Brady does things for 3 years. I have to think that would be valuable for a guy who came into the league without much in the way of physical talent and accolades.
I do think that our current offense looks more like New England's offense than the San Diego/Cowboys offense. Almost all of the throws are shorter, quicker throws. We really have only had 1 downfield throw in the 1st 2 games started by Hoyer. That's the way that the Pats run their offense. Very rarely does Brady throw a pass that travels 20+ yards in the air. He gets almost all of his yards on shorter throws that he places well, and that allow his receivers to run with the ball. With the New England defense it's all placement and timing.
Hoyer has brought that to this offense, and the coaches have called plays that let him play this way. They haven't tried to force him into an offense that would not have accentuated his best abilities. He has played well as a result.
Can he continue? I don't know. He seems to have decent accuracy and placement. He seems to understand the offense. Is that enough? We'll find out.
Some names seem to think that he can be the guy. Obviously Lombardi thinks so. Phil Simms also has said that he sees a lot of Brady in Hoyer. I think that's going overboard, but there are some superficial similarities. However, some people in the media who have played in the league certainly seem to think that he can play, and play well. However, I have heard that before. (Quinn being the most NFL ready QB, McCoy having talent that would translate to the NFL, and so on)
Right now, I don't know what we have in Hoyer. If people are honest, none of us really do. There are some encouraging signs. Is that enough for him to continue to improve? I don't know.
Edit to add one very important thing:
I looked at my very own signature, and was reminded of what the Browns have stated they are looking for. The very first thing behind being bold is a Championship Level QB. I just don't know if that's Hoyer. I think that he looks solid so far ..... but I don't know if he looks like a Championship level guy. I guess that he has the rest of theseason to show that he can be that kind of guy.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The nice thing is, we are one step closer to having a championship quality qb. Is it Hoyer? Who knows. We do know it's not Weeden.
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Buffalo has just one fewer sack than we do.
It's only been two games, but Hoyer is passing the eyeball test. Third-down efficiency and clutch play.
I think it was Brady who said he would make a very good OC some day. A good football mind. Couple that with being quick and decisive. It's only been two games.
I don't put much stock in the concept that he shouldn't be able to be doing what we have seen him doing, but it's only been two games.
I think these are the only two games he has started with a full camp and preseason with the team. He has two major offensive weapons in Gordon and Cameron and what should be a good pass-blocking OL. Plus what is certainly the best D since the return, and possibly the best Browns D I have seen in 46 years.
If Skrine can continue to progress, along with Gipson, the secondary is starting to look good. If the running game can improve, and maybe Little get his head out of his butt, Lava comes back, the O can really step it up a notch. But it's only been two games.
In just three days we may go over .500 for the first time in Six Years, while tied for the Division Lead.
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What I'm curious about is to see him in action when both JC and Gordon get taken out of plays... will he be able to get the ball to his other guys consistently?
The best QBs find ways to burn other teams by finding the 4th 5th 6th option and exploiting the other Defense with it.
If you want him to be "The guy" that's one of the attributes that the top 5 qbs in the league do well.
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Top 5?
Well, we may be getting way ahead of ourselves. I am not even sure he is a starter.
Top 5?
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j/c
gruden just gave Hoyer the Gruden Grinder award for the week on offense.
Believe me... everyone in the NFL has taken notice of Hoyer.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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I saw that, too.
Pretty darn exciting that we might have a player that is worthy of praise.
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All Pro
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Quote:
Arps wrote this on another thread:
Quote:
I see a lot of guys saying Hoyer isnt the long term answer. Why? I know its only 2 games, but he looks better than a lot of guys. What is it that makes folks think he cant grow into the "long term" guy?
I have to admit I have been thinking about it a bit after the Bengal game. I saw guys like DC, Daman, BpG, and others wondering the same things out loud. So, let's discuss it.
I think there are some reasons to believe he isn't the guy:
--Where was he drafted? Heck, was he drafted?
--How many years has he been a back-up?
--Hasn't he been let go by two teams?
--He lacks experience.
--His physical stature and arm are not overwhelming.
--Does anything ever come easy for Cleveland?
Some reasons to believe he could be the guy:
--Tom Jackson said on ESPN last night that Hoyer is delivering the ball faster than any other qb in the league. That leads to some other things---
--He is reading coverages.
--He sees the field.
--He is not taking as many sacks.
--His arm is strong enough. It's not great, but the ball gets there w/some zip on most throws.
--He has quite a bit of poise.
--He seems to have "it." Players are responding to him. Players seem to be playing w/a sense of hope and are more enthusiastic.
--He has been good on 3rd downs.
--He has lead TD drives when we needed TDs.
--He is pretty darn accurate.
So, is he the guy?
I don't know. I doubt it. I am hoping that he is. I didn't think there was any way he was the guy until I actually saw him play. At least I give him a chance now. I don't think he is a guy that the fans and media are going to be very patient with. He'll never receive the excuses of a guy like Weeden. He's gotta play well early and maintain it. A couple of bad games and the masses will turn on him quickly.
I wanna believe, but why wasn't he drafted higher? Why did two teams give up on him? Why wasn't he a hot commodity? Does anything ever work out well for the Browns?
I don't know. He probably isn't the guy. Maybe defenses adjust and take away what he does well. But, I have to admit that I do have a little hope for him and that excites me. Can you guys imagine how pretty we would be sitting if Hoyer is the guy?
We will have two first round picks, one second round pick, two thirds, two fourths........and free agency. Are you stinking kidding me? We could be address so many needs. Dang man...........that is so exciting.
It probably won't happen, but Hoyer looks to be at least a solid back-up. And if he's more...........we just hit the jackpot.
Thanks Mike Lombardi!!!
OK, just to answer some of the questions. In my opinion of course.
Where was he drafted? Not really a good question. Some greats get drafted low, some busts (Couch) real high.
How many years backing up? Look who he backed up. How many QBs would start over his "mentors".
Let go and experience, see above.
Stature is an issue. Arm looks accurate and has touch, touch is underrated on sports center. Have you ever caught an absolute missile? It hurts!
Easy for Cleveland? Only in dreams.
The big plus for me is that he "looks good". I quoted that because after 2 games, he doesn't frighten me. I think he is going to make a good decision, not throw into triple coverage.
He does seem to see the field. And quickly.
Third downs have been better than average. But opposing third downs (especially vs. the Bungles) are awesome. Could his third down conversions be giving the D some breath.... And hope?
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Quote:
Top 5?
Well, we may be getting way ahead of ourselves. I am not even sure he is a starter.
Top 5?
You mis-read
I'm saying that the top 5 QBs, or at least the top 4 (Manning, Brady, Rogers, Brees) in particular, know how to exploit defenses with their 4-6th options on the depth chart all the time.
If Hoyer wants to be "That guy" that... should be something that he should be able to aspire to... taking a PS guy and making him look like the best receiver out there (exaggerating).
Last edited by The Collector; 10/01/13 12:03 AM.
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If he had Weedens arm strength he'd absolutely be franchise QB caliber. I think Hoyer can be better than Alex Smith under Haurbaugh.
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Quote:
If he had Weedens arm strength he'd absolutely be franchise QB caliber. I think Hoyer can be better than Alex Smith under Haurbaugh.
If he winds up being an Alex Smith type, then he'll be replaced. This team wants a championship level QB, and Smith has been more careful and solid as opposed to being a championship level QB.
Honestly, I see us taking a QB in the 1st no matter how Hoyer does. The only question at that point will be how soon the new kid takes the field. I think that the ideal would be for Hoyer to be pretty good, and play through next year ..... then the new kid takes over in 2015, when the new uniforms hit the field ..... and we go win it all. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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We dont know for sure...that much we do know...but we can look at the evidence.
Brian Hoyer places the ball INCREDIBLY well...that is one of the biggest pluses a QB can have. I mean his throws that are caught always seem to be right where it needs to go to make sure his guy can not only catch it, but can do something with it. In addition, its also thrown where only his guy can get it, and if his guy cant get it, no one gets it. Love that. That alone makes it so that he can be a successful QB in this league.
Other things...
He has good pocket presence. He's felt pressure very well, and has been able to slide and step into places away from the pressure and manage to keep his eyes downfield...He has kept plays alive where our other QBs and past QBs just go down, or make a bad choice.
His only bad decisions have come from safeties or linebackers being in the passing lane. Where he didnt read them...This is something that film study and experience can eliminate.
He doesnt stare down receivers...he has held the safeties well enough to complete passes.
He has patience...While he gets the ball out quick, he isnt forcing the throws out of nerves or any other reason. He is doing what he needs to and doesnt rush it.
Poise...He doesnt get rattled...in the past I watch the QBs we have get hit a couple few times, and or make a bad throw or two and couple it with more terrible plays...Hoyer has shown he can rebound. Two games in a row hes snapped out of an ugly stretch in the 2nd half to lead a game winning/sealing TD drive.
Fight...he is willing to battle. Its the one biggest thing that I think Derek Anderson and Brandon Weeden, Brady Quinn, and Charlie Frye never had. They never seemed to battle when they needed to. They never worked through issues, they never fought throughout a game to get out of a funk or make sure their guys didnt lose. Hoyer has shown in two weeks he doesnt give up. Not on a play, not on a drive, not on a game. Past Browns teams dont score those late game TDs that we have in 2 straight weeks...thats a lot on our QB refusing to let it go.
Other QB solids. He has been good on 3rd down...doesnt force or make a bad decision on 3rd downs either...on Sunday he took a 3rd down and threw it away to move on to the FG...thats new. He's had decent completion percentage. The offense doesnt appear to be shooting itself in the foot with bad plays from the QB or the guys in the huddle. He seems to be going through his reads and progressions.
The negatives on this guy right now are all speculative. The arm strength? Hasnt been a problem yet. He put the 47 yarder to Gordon on the numbers. Draft position? Ask 80% of the NFL if it matters to them where they got drafted when they get and keep a starting job. You think Ahtyba Rubin, Tashaun Gipson, Buster Skrine, John Greco, Oniel Cousins, Jason Pinkston, Shaun Lauvao, Davone Bess, Jordan Cameron, or Gary Barnidge care where they got picked? Nope...theyre starting. Thats all that matters. You get into the league, you make the most of your opportunities...thats all there is to it. It dont matter how you get there, it matters what you do when youre there. Same time...do you think Haden, Phil, Sheard, Mingo, JThomas, Mack or the high picks care? Na...make the most of your chances.
If you were to ask me to draft tomorrow...I wouldnt take a QB. I'd let Hoyer do his thing.
I hope...that if he has a bad game or two, we dont bury him. He has shown good things.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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The pass to Gordon wasn't "on the numbers". It was well behind him, and forced Gordon to slow considerable and still reach back for the pass. Fortunately Gordon has so brutally beat his man that he was able to do so and still be open by 5 yards. That said, it was thrown well enough to be completed ..... but it was far from being a pass that was "on the numbers", unless the numbers were the ones on Gordon's back. The pass was in the neighborhood, and close enough to be caught, but that catch was on Gordon, not Hoyer.
Hoyer was up and down in the 1st game. He had some good throws, and some bad ones. he made some good decisions, and some bad ones.
In his 2nd start, he was much, much better. I seem o recall thinking that there were only a couple os passes that I would consider to be bad passes, and a few exceptional throws. Most of his throws were just good, professional NFL throws, and that's damn good.
He did scramble himself into a sack instead of getting rid of the ball on one play I remember. He had time to get rid of the ball, and chose to try and scramble instead. However, on another play it appeared that he was going to get buried, and he got out of it.
I wasn't quite as enthused about Hoyer's 1st game as most were .... but he showed significant improvement in many regards in his 2nd start. If he can continue to keep showing small improvements, game by game, then he might be the answer. I'm not willing to bet our future on it though. If we can get a QB in the coming draft who looks like a franchise guy, then I think we should. If worse comes to worse, we should be able to trade the 2nd best guy for a premium.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I think he's simply a backup and benefits from a couple of circumstances:
- wins always cloud fan opinion positively, vice versa with losses. Especially for the QB Position. He looked really bad for half the game in both starts, but that gets overlooked, because other parts of the team made up for it.
- he really only played backup DBs so far as the Vikings and Bengals were crippled there, so are the Bills btw. He's a backup taking advantage of backups covering the likes of Gordon and Cameron, who bail him out often. Examples: the big play to Gordon, who made a circus catch over Pacman on a bad throw or the INT breakup by Cameron or the busted coverage TD to Gordon vs a backup CB
- while it's true that he had big Name QBs ahead of him, These teams all did not have a backup and he even was replaced as such in NE. Also, the Cards had the most terrible QB situation the past season and still let him go....then he was a FA for a loooong time. 32 NFL teams sleeping on a potential franchise QB with league tape of him? Yeah, right
- he never was accurate in his career and I still dont see it, he also throws some ugly wobblers. Watch some replays. His game is all mental and it needs to be on Peyton level to make up for his physical shortcomings
There's a lot to like about him and I think he's the perfect backup. He reminds me of Tim Rattay, that's more than I ever expected, but whoever thinks he can be the guy is being delusional, because of the wins, the story and because he's more likeable than Weeden. Couple that with a perfect storm situation, which to his credit, he's has grabbed by the horn, displaying his mental capabilities. Anyone loves a good overachiever story and often expectations bend perception and ultimately the evaluation. I think thats at work here more than anything.
Even if he isnt the ONE, Lombo deserves credit for recognizing his talents, although it doesnt change his QB pimp list history by much. He still hasnt even liked a QB that turned out to be any good. In fact, Hoyer might be his best. Here's hope he doesnt outsmart himself again come April, because thats where our potential fQB will have to come from.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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