GOP Donors Revolt Against Republican-Led Government Shutdown
by David Freedlander Oct 3, 2013 5:45 AM EDT It’s not just Democrats who are angry at the Tea Party-led shutdown. Republican donors are furious their party has managed to ‘grab defeat from the jaws of victory’ on Obamacare—and some are withholding funds, reports David Freedlander.
On a Monday last month, Rep. Greg Walden, chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee, met with some top GOP donors for lunch at Le Cirque on Lexington Avenue in Manhattan. The donors, a youngish collection of financial industry types and lawyers, had some questions for Walden, a mild-mannered lawmaker from eastern Oregon known for speaking his mind.
Why, they asked, did the GOP seem so in the thrall of its most extremist wing? The donors, banker types who occupy the upper reaches of Wall Street’s towers, couldn’t understand why the Republican Party—their party—seemed close to threatening the nation with a government shutdown, never mind a default if the debt ceiling isn’t raised later this month.
“Listen,” Walden said, according to several people present. “We have to do this because of the Tea Party. If we don’t, these guys are going to get primaried and they are going to lose their primary.”
Walden asked how many of those seated around the table were precinct captains. These were money men, though, not the types to spend night after night knocking on doors and slipping palm cards into mailboxes.
“A lot of the people there didn’t even know what a precinct captain was,” said one attendee.
Not a single hand went up.
“I hear this complaint all the time,” Walden said. “But no one gets involved at the local level. The Tea Party gets involved at the local level.”
(An NRCC spokeswoman disputed that Walden mentioned the Tea Party at the event.)
It is unlikely that the gilded power brokers in the Republican Party are likely to join their local county political club any time soon, but as the stock market wobbles amid the government shutdown and the continued demand for an Obamacare delay, a number of GOP donors are wondering if it is time for a little outside counter-pressure to sap the Tea Party of some of its energy. To be clear, none are considering joining the Democrats, and they find plenty of fault with President Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. The deficit, taxes, and regulation remain top concerns. But several top GOP donors say figuring out a way to “break the fever”—as Obama once put it—or at least keep their fellow party members from damaging the economy any further has become Topic A in their social set.
Why, they asked, did the GOP seem so in the thrall of its most extremist wing? The donors, banker types who occupy the upper reaches of Wall Street’s towers, couldn’t understand why the Republican Party—their party—seemed close to threatening the nation with a government shutdown, never mind a default if the debt ceiling isn’t raised later this month.
“Listen,” Walden said, according to several people present. “We have to do this because of the Tea Party. If we don’t, these guys are going to get primaried and they are going to lose their primary.”
Walden asked how many of those seated around the table were precinct captains. These were money men, though, not the types to spend night after night knocking on doors and slipping palm cards into mailboxes.
“A lot of the people there didn’t even know what a precinct captain was,” said one attendee.
Not a single hand went up.
“I hear this complaint all the time,” Walden said. “But no one gets involved at the local level. The Tea Party gets involved at the local level.”
(An NRCC spokeswoman disputed that Walden mentioned the Tea Party at the event.)
It is unlikely that the gilded power brokers in the Republican Party are likely to join their local county political club any time soon, but as the stock market wobbles amid the government shutdown and the continued demand for an Obamacare delay, a number of GOP donors are wondering if it is time for a little outside counter-pressure to sap the Tea Party of some of its energy. To be clear, none are considering joining the Democrats, and they find plenty of fault with President Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. The deficit, taxes, and regulation remain top concerns. But several top GOP donors say figuring out a way to “break the fever”—as Obama once put it—or at least keep their fellow party members from damaging the economy any further has become Topic A in their social set.
Quote: This kind of sums up the GOP strategy...it's just a game to them...
They're discussing that Obama & Harry Reid keep saying that 'We WON'T negotiate!" and they keep saying that their own plan is that they will not cave on defunding Obamacare but will negotiate on everything else.
That's not really any kind of revelation. Rand Paul was only telling McConnell what he had just finished doing on a CNN interview.
I happen to like most of what Rand Paul says and knowing what I do about McConnell, I don't like him very much at all.
As far as it goes, I hope the government continues to be partially shutdown. My hope would be that more of it is shuttered, but I don't think that making a concerted effort to make the visits of people to national parks and memorials as miserable as possible is the way for Obama and his minions to sway public opinion.
It seems that public opinion has turned on him and the American people are sick of the antics.
I've been to the WW2 memorial. It's literally just off the sidewalks. It's just a few steps (or a HC ramp) away from the public and there were never any park service personnel there. I simply walked right up to it. No fee was paid. No ticket was procured. Nothing.
The WW2 Memorial from Google Maps. Go to the street view and you can see it, minus the barricades to keep people from enjoying it.
They're actually paying more to keep it closed than they ever did to keep it open to the public. That's liberal logic for you!
As far as it goes, I hope the government continues to be partially shutdown. My hope would be that more of it is shuttered, but I don't think that making a concerted effort to make the visits of people to national parks and memorials as miserable as possible is the way for Obama and his minions to sway public opinion.
It seems that public opinion has turned on him and the American people are sick of the antics.
Obama kept saying how the economy would tank if the government shutdown. That didn't happen. All of his scare tactics have failed.
Quote:
They're actually paying more to keep it closed than they ever did to keep it open to the public. That's liberal logic for you!
Obama will keep people out of the WWII memorial, but won't keep people from illegally crossing our boarders.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
Barrycades: Feds Try to Shut Down Privately Owned Mount Vernon
“Deliberate effort by Obama to hurt the public”
Paul Joseph Watson Infowars.com October 3, 2013
The National Park Service erected barricades to shut down parking lots surrounding Mount Vernon despite the fact that the tourist destination is privately owned, another example of how the feds are deliberately worsening the government shut down.
Mount Vernon is the former plantation of George Washington and is owned by the Mount Vernon Ladies’ Association, which doesn’t receive any government funding. The attraction’s official website reads, “NO SHUTDOWN HERE – The Federal government may be shut down, but Washington’s home remains open. Mount Vernon has remained a private non-profit for more than 150 years.”
However, a dispute began when the National Park Service began putting up barricades to block off the facility’s car park, blockading the entrance as well as a spot where tour buses turn around.
The parking lots are co-owned by Mount Vernon and the NPS, but require no immediate maintenance at all, meaning the decision to close them down was completely unnecessary.
The feds even blocked off a small area consisting of just three parking spaces.
After blogger Stephen Gutowski exposed the situation, Newt Gingrich got in on the act, tweeting, “The tour bus turnaround at Mount Vernon has been closed by federal police. This is deliberate effort by Obama to hurt the public. Disgusting.”
Numerous other sites around DC have been unnecessarily closed by the NPS and other federal agencies in what critics are labeling a cynical political stunt which only serves to punish the American people.
In some cases, efforts to shut down these sites actually require more manpower and resources than if they had been left open, highlighting the fact that this is an act of partisan theater by the Obama administration to pin the blame for the government shutdown on Republicans and opponents of Obamacare.
- Numerous hiking and biking trails throughout the greater DC region, despite requiring zero immediate maintenance or patrols, have been closed down. Irate citizens are merely flouting the law and using them anyway.
- The NPS has stationed officers along the Chesapeake & Ohio Canal that runs 184 miles from Washington, D.C. to Cumberland, Maryland to make sure nobody uses the bike paths. It would have required less manpower to keep this trail open. The handles on all the well pumps have also been removed.
- The feds also shut down a tiny park in which children play on fake turtles, prompting angry mothers to remove the barriers, only to see them put back up. “The park is extremely small and sort of seems pointless to block off,” reports the Daily Caller.
- Lincoln Park in DC, which is known to be used by several Democratic Senators, was not shut down, but numerous national parks across Montana were closed.
- The most widely reported case occurred at the World War II memorial in DC, where the NPS tried to prevent veterans from seeing the monument by erecting barriers and even threatening vets with arrest. The veterans stormed through the barricades anyway. “People had to spend hours setting up barricades where there are never barricades to prevent people from seeing the World War II monument because they’re trying to play a charade,” Senator Rand Paul told Fox News.
Senior Republicans on the House Natural Resources Committee are considering opening up an investigation into where the Obama administration directly ordered the “outrageous” closure of the memorial as part of a ploy to “make the current lapse in appropriations as conspicuous and painful to the public as possible,” according to the letter from chairman Doc Hastings, R-Wash., and subcommittee chairman Rob Bishop, R-Utah.
I love how CNN is trotting out tons of people, story after story, about how people are going to lose their houses and such because of the government shutdown .....
This was 2 days in.
They had person after person saying his it was causing their family to break up, they were getting divorced, and they have no ide how that would put food on the table.
2 days in.
I bet that not one person had missed their paycheck at that point. of course, if you can make it lok like small children are starving, and parents can't afford chemo for their sick child, then it makes the Republicans look bad.
I don't agree with the shutdown. I do think that the Republicans should fight for an across the board budget cut instead of continuing to fight Obamacare. Just wait till union workers with "Cadillac plans" start getting taxed extra for those plans. Many people already don't like Obamacare.Many more will really hate it when they realize that their "free" healthcare isn't free at all. When there is a massive public outcry, that's the time to make major changes. The best thing the Republicans can do right now is to let people start getting taxed. I would pass a budget with full funding of this disaster. Let people find out what it really costs them. .
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I don't know what all the hubbub is about. People are worrying about the Government partial shutdown. I'm more worried about them opening back up again
I swear, if you took away the elected officials paychecks (in other words, furlough them as well) then it would never get to a shutdown. They'd find middle ground and make it work..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: I don't know what all the hubbub is about. People are worrying about the Government partial shutdown. I'm more worried about them opening back up again
the Catastrophic Consequences of a U.S. Default Explained By Matt Nesto | Breakout – Fri, Oct 4, 2013 1:02 PM EDT
As we close out the first week of the government shutdown, a bigger and even more toxic disaster is creeping into the fray that could make the contentious budget battle look like a slap fight. The Treasury Department said Uncle Sam will be broke by October 17th unless something is done. Treasury secretary Jack Lew hammered home that point Thursday by releasing an unusually ominous statement that warned of catastrophic risks to the economy.
House Speaker John Boehner has said he won't let the government default on its debt, but until steps are taken to raise the nation's debt ceiling, the possibility of default is still theoretically alive.
"If they seriously default on the debt, what we're really talking about is a depression," says veteran financial sector analyst Richard Bove, VP of research at Rafferty Capital Markets. In the attached video he explains how the fallout would be a lot worse than the recession suffered in 2008 and the aftershocks would be felt for at least a decade.
"The first thing you have to do is look at who holds the debt," Bove says of the $16.7 trillion of bonds the U.S. currently has outstanding. "The first, biggest owner (of U.S. debt) is the social security fund, so you'd have all of these people who are receiving social security payments who now have to question whether they'll get their payments."
Clearly, that would cause a huge disruption to millions of Americans. But Bove says that is only the beginning since the second biggest holder of Treasuries (at about 12% of the total) is the Federal Reserve, which has "91% of its assets backed by U.S. government debt."
If the value of those assets were to decline, which they indisputably would in a default, Bove says the net effect would be that "we have nothing of value backing the dollar."
They're actually "Federal Reserve Notes" as well as the number one asset of choice held in the reserves of governments and businesses all over the world. A plunge in Treasuries would also devalue the dollar, which would instantly make everything we buy more expensive, and in turn destabilize countries and economies all over the world.
"Eleven-percent of all U.S. debt is owned by the Chinese," he says. "That $1.4 trillion represents about a third of the reserves of the People's Bank of China, so what we've now said to the PBOC is, 'Watch out, we may hit the value of a third of your assets and you can't do anything about it.'"
And this isn't even half of it.
As Bove explains, money market funds, which are used by virtually every person with a savings or investment account, are also "heavily loaded with Treasuries." So are most bond funds and so-called balanced funds (growth and income funds). A default on U.S. debt would not only cause money funds to "break the buck" --not be able to pay 100-cents for each dollar invested)-- but would also cause forced selling by countless other funds that are mandated to immediately sell any asset that has defaulted.
"That could easily put $750 billion of Treasuries on to the market" Bove says, inferring that rates interest rates would also spike, and normal borrowing/lending transactions would end.
Speaking of banks, the U.S. banking industry holds over a trillion dollars worth of Treasuries and another trillion dollars of government issued mortgage-backed securities, Bove says. If those bonds were to go down in value, he says the banks would also have to "write down the value of those assets and, in essence, wipe out their equity." It would make the banks insolvent.
To summarize, Bove asserts that a default is unthinkable because it would trigger a huge reduction in the value of U.S. debt, which would go beyond disrupting social security payments. A default would upend money markets, destroy bond funds, slam the brakes on lending, cause interest rates to spiral, make our banks insolvent, and deal a blow to our foreign trading partners and creditors around the globe; all of which would throw the U.S. and the world into economic disarray.e
As sad as one might think it is to say this, I think that defaulting on that debt will turn out to be better than if they increase the debt ceiling.
Will it hurt economically in the short run? Absolutely. Our nation's borrowing costs will go up substantially immediately.
What it would force upon our government is a measure of spending restraint that it doesn't appear to have at the moment.
It will immediately make borrowing money more expensive for the federal government to do. So, I suspect that what they would do is to continue to monetize it by having the Fed continue to purchase treasury bonds for as long as the bond market remains an option. When that option closes, they'll go all Zimbabwe on it and we'll see berhyperinflation.
I noticed the board was shut down MUCH sooner than I noticed the Gov't shut down.
I love this premise...the Gov't just shut down...it just shut down. Like an engine that's gonna overheat or something. Just shut it down. The government.
They should shutdown the money presses and the spending actions, and just fire everyone and start over. This beaurocracy sucks. We've safeguarded ourselves to the point where we cant achieve anything, and instead of improving anything we just increase the failing status quo.
"It has to start somewhere It has to start somehow What better place than here? What better time than now?"
Some healthcare is better than none. I don't know how any adult that would want to work for a small business. I've worked for one for the past 4 years, and the only healthcare offered was 60/40, $1500 deductible, and almost $250 per month. I'm single, and there was no way I could afford/want crap insurance like that. I've purchased a few 6 month policies in that 4 year time frame for only $90, and it was 80/20, with a $500 deductible. Now that Obamacare is almost here the owner only offers coverage to 2 workers that are salary. Today I went to the parent company looking for a better job, where I could get insurance, and have an opportunity to advance my career.
Quote: Some healthcare is better than none. I don't know how any adult that would want to work for a small business. I've worked for one for the past 4 years, and the only healthcare offered was 60/40, $1500 deductible, and almost $250 per month. I'm single, and there was no way I could afford/want crap insurance like that. I've purchased a few 6 month policies in that 4 year time frame for only $90, and it was 80/20, with a $500 deductible. Now that Obamacare is almost here the owner only offers coverage to 2 workers that are salary. Today I went to the parent company looking for a better job, where I could get insurance, and have an opportunity to advance my career.
So, in other words, you want health care, but you want someone else to pay for it, right?
You don't want to work for a small business where you have to carry your load......you want to work for a big business so some one else will carry your burden. Got it.
Obama care used to seem right up your alley. Until the facts started coming out and you see that you'll have to pay. One way or another, you're going to pay. You honestly didn't ever think otherwise, did you?
Obamacare (the "affordable" healthcare act ) is a joke....a painfully expensive joke. Anyone with half a brain knew it would be, and smelled the stench a mile away. Now we're seeing what national healthcare (managed with the efficiency only the government can provide), is all about. Is it any wonder that the crooks, shysters and idiots in the Obama administration did everything in their power to hide what was contained in the bill? It is what we thought it was.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Quote: I've purchased a few 6 month policies in that 4 year time frame for only $90, and it was 80/20, with a $500 deductible.
Yeah, right! Those were most likely castestrophic plans.. Not full med.. and you also must be very young.
I tried to find a health insurance plan after my COBRA ran out, and I couldn;t find anything less than $450/month. That was for a high deductible/high coinsurance plan. IIRC, it was a $5000 deductible, with 70/30 coinsurance. There was no prescription coverage, and doctor visits were not covered that I could see.
It was cheaper for me to pay my own way. If I had a catastrophic problem, St Elizabeth's offers care to those without insurance who fall into specific income brackets ..... which I do given that I am on Social Security.
Now I am heading to Medicare ..... so I'll be covered for far less ... so that's good.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: I've purchased a few 6 month policies in that 4 year time frame for only $90, and it was 80/20, with a $500 deductible.
Yeah, right! Those were most likely castestrophic plans.. Not full med.. and you also must be very young.
I tried to find a health insurance plan after my COBRA ran out, and I couldn;t find anything less than $450/month. That was for a high deductible/high coinsurance plan. IIRC, it was a $5000 deductible, with 70/30 coinsurance. There was no prescription coverage, and doctor visits were not covered that I could see.
It was cheaper for me to pay my own way. If I had a catastrophic problem, St Elizabeth's offers care to those without insurance who fall into specific income brackets ..... which I do given that I am on Social Security.
Now I am heading to Medicare ..... so I'll be covered for far less ... so that's good.
There are (actually were) plenty of plans out there that are cheap depending on your age, health, pre existing conditions, but rarely will you find a full med plan.
We had a plan whereby a person, say like you, with pre existing conditions, you could get a plan from my former carrier (still my carrier until Jan 1.) You could have gotten a plan as a single person for about 35.00 a week. But again, it's not even close to a Full Med plan. In fact, it's ok but not at all great. You would be better off doing what you did than take that plan.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
What are you talking about? Small businesses are set up for the owner, very few else. And its nothing personal. I work 60 hr work weeks. Why would i work for a small business, when i could increase my salary by 25 percent, and get better benefits. I pay my own healthcare. Learn to read. And it covered a 5000 outpatient procedure. You are a bitter old man. You have thick skin.
Keep the government shut down, with the exception of the military, and payments to SS and other senior bennies. I'd like for people to see how little they actually need their government.
I was a US Navy contractor during the last shutdown, and my wife worked for the DOC. She got a 2 month paid vacation with pay, and I never missed a day of work. Traffic was great. They are managing right now to run the government with less of a 1/4 of government workers showing up for work. If they can do it now, do we really need all those people in a normal situation? Should we keep paying taxes for 3/4 of non-essential people? They keep telling us there is no where to cut, but it seems to me there is a lot of cuts they can make. Not to mention, if they can get rid of 1/2 the government employees, we should pay less taxes. The time has come to change this government again, to get rid of the progressives, both dem and repubs, and get this country back to the fiscal policies we should have. We should not be taxed as much as we are. We should not have over bearing government. We should not fear our government, they should fear us. It's time to stop the upcoming progressive utopia they are trying to put us in, for I want to get by on my own merits, not by what they permit me.
Quote: Keep the government shut down, with the exception of the military, and payments to SS and other senior bennies. I'd like for people to see how little they actually need their government.
I was a US Navy contractor during the last shutdown, and my wife worked for the DOC. She got a 2 month paid vacation with pay, and I never missed a day of work. Traffic was great. They are managing right now to run the government with less of a 1/4 of government workers showing up for work. If they can do it now, do we really need all those people in a normal situation? Should we keep paying taxes for 3/4 of non-essential people? They keep telling us there is no where to cut, but it seems to me there is a lot of cuts they can make. Not to mention, if they can get rid of 1/2 the government employees, we should pay less taxes. The time has come to change this government again, to get rid of the progressives, both dem and repubs, and get this country back to the fiscal policies we should have. We should not be taxed as much as we are. We should not have over bearing government. We should not fear our government, they should fear us. It's time to stop the upcoming progressive utopia they are trying to put us in, for I want to get by on my own merits, not by what they permit me.
We could get rid of a lot of waste by getting rid of the military. There's no reason why we should be fighting two wars at the moment.
Quote: I pay my own healthcare. Learn to read. And it covered a 5000 outpatient procedure.
So, your $90 policy (not sure if you mean per month, or for 6 months) Covered a $5000 outpatient procedure. That's awesome for you. Honest question: Why wouldn't you keep doing that? If the insurance you got on your own was so great, and so cheap - why not take your promotion and stick with your 6 month insurance policies? You have thick skin.
Quote: Keep the government shut down, with the exception of the military, and payments to SS and other senior bennies. I'd like for people to see how little they actually need their government.
I was a US Navy contractor during the last shutdown, and my wife worked for the DOC. She got a 2 month paid vacation with pay, and I never missed a day of work. Traffic was great. They are managing right now to run the government with less of a 1/4 of government workers showing up for work. If they can do it now, do we really need all those people in a normal situation? Should we keep paying taxes for 3/4 of non-essential people? They keep telling us there is no where to cut, but it seems to me there is a lot of cuts they can make. Not to mention, if they can get rid of 1/2 the government employees, we should pay less taxes. The time has come to change this government again, to get rid of the progressives, both dem and repubs, and get this country back to the fiscal policies we should have. We should not be taxed as much as we are. We should not have over bearing government. We should not fear our government, they should fear us. It's time to stop the upcoming progressive utopia they are trying to put us in, for I want to get by on my own merits, not by what they permit me.
We could get rid of a lot of waste by getting rid of the military. There's no reason why we should be fighting two wars at the moment.
Get rid of the military? Dumbest comment I've read on here.
Quote: Keep the government shut down, with the exception of the military, and payments to SS and other senior bennies. I'd like for people to see how little they actually need their government.
I was a US Navy contractor during the last shutdown, and my wife worked for the DOC. She got a 2 month paid vacation with pay, and I never missed a day of work. Traffic was great. They are managing right now to run the government with less of a 1/4 of government workers showing up for work. If they can do it now, do we really need all those people in a normal situation? Should we keep paying taxes for 3/4 of non-essential people? They keep telling us there is no where to cut, but it seems to me there is a lot of cuts they can make. Not to mention, if they can get rid of 1/2 the government employees, we should pay less taxes. The time has come to change this government again, to get rid of the progressives, both dem and repubs, and get this country back to the fiscal policies we should have. We should not be taxed as much as we are. We should not have over bearing government. We should not fear our government, they should fear us. It's time to stop the upcoming progressive utopia they are trying to put us in, for I want to get by on my own merits, not by what they permit me.
We could get rid of a lot of waste by getting rid of the military. There's no reason why we should be fighting two wars at the moment.
Get rid of the military? Dumbest comment I've read on here.
Signed,
SSgt Hewett USMC
Should have read down when I said obv. not all of it.
Quote: There's no reason why we should be fighting two wars at the moment.
Actually, we'd get rid of a lot more waste in the military if our government would allow the military to fight the wars to win, not just 'kill the bad guys'. If someone attacks us, we should make war like the Romans did with Carthage. Go in, kill everything, destroy their infrastructure, then salt the earth so nothing grows there again. I'm quite sure the bad guys will think again before another attack.
Quote: There's no reason why we should be fighting two wars at the moment.
Actually, we'd get rid of a lot more waste in the military if our government would allow the military to fight the wars to win, not just 'kill the bad guys'. If someone attacks us, we should make war like the Romans did with Carthage. Go in, kill everything, destroy their infrastructure, then salt the earth so nothing grows there again. I'm quite sure the bad guys will think again before another attack.
I know most people here probably don't care, but in the research field this has the potential to cause quite a disruption. October is usually the time the National Science Foundation and National Institutes of Health accept grant applications for future research projects. Currently, we can't access the sites to look at previous submissions and the reviews that they have gone through. No one really knows what will happen with the timeline if we get past the middle of this month and can't send in applications. Will they extend the deadline? Will they cancel it until April? It's all kind of up in the air. Which means some people's jobs are up in the air.
So yes, it's easy to point and grandstand about how inconsequential it is to you and those you know that the government is shutdown, but there are real-life ramifications the longer this goes on for many people that are downright scary.
Here is the deal... The federal government is not and should not be seen as the owner of anything. They are merely the guardian of assets held in public trust. The real owner is every American everywhere. And in the midst of a tantrum over funding, the guardian doesnt get to tell the owner anything about the status of or access to their asset. Get a grip park service stop being jack booted thugs carrying out the will of foolish amd ignorant people.
Quote: I know most people here probably don't care, but in the research field this has the potential to cause quite a disruption. October is usually the time the National Science Foundation and National Institutes of Health accept grant applications for future research projects. Currently, we can't access the sites to look at previous submissions and the reviews that they have gone through. No one really knows what will happen with the timeline if we get past the middle of this month and can't send in applications. Will they extend the deadline? Will they cancel it until April? It's all kind of up in the air. Which means some people's jobs are up in the air.
So yes, it's easy to point and grandstand about how inconsequential it is to you and those you know that the government is shutdown, but there are real-life ramifications the longer this goes on for many people that are downright scary.
It's a way to show someone's punk side. Everyone wants the fed to be shut down, but in 10 days, if the fed is shut down, then are economy is going to crap again. Albeit, it's already on its road to being crap again this quarter, but I'd prefer it not to happen so fast.
Rome fell because they allowed themselves to become decadent, and they allowed their republic to fall in favor of a dictatorship, not because they destroyed Carthage. Were you trying to make a point with that?
Also, please consider the next government shutdown when the majority of America has been forced into the government run health care.
![[Linked Image from s2.excoboard.com]](http://s2.excoboard.com/forums/25521/user/302752/484538.gif)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
