Do I expect the FDA to inspect everything, no. Should they heavily inspect products from countries we don't entirely trust, yes. The real question is a different one.
If the FDA regulations and inspections were lowered for those companies that are trusted, the money that goes to the FDA could be used more efficiently. For example, grant companies without FDA violations to have tax breaks. That money could then be reinvested into the company, improving worker pay and company technology to maintain their food safety.
I used to work for a pork processing company, and I always found it interesting that the company was still processing food on government holidays. If they aren't needed for the holiday, how much are they needed on regular work days. Of course, there will always be that company that decides to cheat on their quality, like the latest peanut butter salmonella outbreak, but I think those are few and far between. If a company can maintain their own food safety without the extreme oversite, they should be able to keep the money they would have paid to be inspected. I'm sure most companies would prefer that and would advertise their high quality and standards to us, the consumers.
Quote: From my viewpoint, it appears that the vast majority of Americans and nearly ALL American politicians at the federal level don't believe that what happened in Greece and Cyprus can happen here.
I would bet most Americans are unaware there IS a problem in Greece, and most probably think Cyprus is a tree.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
Quote: The republican party got Lincoln elected, which in my opinion is the largest abuser of the Constitution until obama came into office.
If that's your comparison you already lost. Lincoln is considered to be one of the greatest Presidents the United States has ever had. One of our national treasures is a memorial depiction of him. Do you really want to put Obama and Lincoln in the same breath?
The more I see the more the republican party scares me. Homophobia/restriction of civil rights, pretending science is a religion that you can choose to believe in or not, and now political terrorism (if Boehner put up a vote you, I, and everyone else knows it would pass). I am/was a true independent, but as I get older the Republicans keep pushing me left. It seems like the republicans are not progressing.
I understand both sides are at fault, but the their respective fault is not equal. They can't win through the normal democratic methods, you know like voting, so they used their last tactic, shutting down the government. I wouldn't be surprised if the republicans lose the house because of this. I will say if this works and the president caves you can bet your house the democrats will use the tactic whenever it becomes available unless the republicans get destroyed in next election.
I think we need to put term limits for senate/house, campaign finance reform, put an end to gerrymandering, and if the government shutdowns there has to be a penalty to the people who allowed it happen (maybe no re-election..something).
Nelson, what you and everybody else that wants to cut spending and pay off the debt needs to understand is that the debt is an illusion. The only reason we have a national debt is that we created the Federal Reserve.
I don't belong to or follow the people behind this website, but they do a very Good (although not perfect) job of explaining why the debt is so high and how it can be easily eliminated. I'd vote for anybody who got behind the idea of abolishing the fed. Read this:
Quote: I sorry, I did not realize that you actually believe such lunacy.
Never mind, I'll just talk to the adults in the room.
Didn't click the link, but just curious as to what makes it lunacy? It doesn't take a genius to understand that borrowing money like we do is just a Fiat money system and it is set up to keep the US in perpetual debt.
Quote: Nelson, what you and everybody else that wants to cut spending and pay off the debt needs to understand is that the debt is an illusion. The only reason we have a national debt is that we created the Federal Reserve.
I don't belong to or follow the people behind this website, but they do a very Good (although not perfect) job of explaining why the debt is so high and how it can be easily eliminated. I'd vote for anybody who got behind the idea of abolishing the fed. Read this:
Quote: Who says the folks in congress aren't suffering through the shutdown.. this congressman has to live without towel service at the house gym.
LOL $260 and this damn fool is complaining about a towel service not being available to him..... I wish I could get an Gym Membership for $260 a year.
I don't know who this guy is, I don't know if he's a D or and R or an I. And I don't care because it simply doesn't matter. This kinda thinking is what's killing us.
I recognize that this is being take a little out of context. But I do think it's generally what the problem is with our leaders.
I admit to looking it up, and he is a Democrat. Between this and Harry Reid's multiple idiotic statements during this shutdown, I would think that the Democrats would be ready to try something to get this ended.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
You have it backwards, the republicans pretend that religion is science, it's the democrats that pretend that science is a religion.
Quote: and now political terrorism (if Boehner put up a vote you, I, and everyone else knows it would pass). I am/was a true independent, but as I get older the Republicans keep pushing me left. It seems like the republicans are not progressing.
Political terrorism? Exaggerate much?
Who were the political terrorists in 1976 when the dems controlled both the house and senate and we had a republican president and congress shut down the government for 10 days?
or in 1977 dems controlled house, senate and white house, shut down for 12 days? Then this continued for another 8 days...
Again in 1977, dems still control everything, shut down again for another 8 days?
1978, still all dems, shut down for 18 days?
1979, still all dems, another 11 days?
1981, senate republican, house dem, white house republican, 2 days?
1982, same group, 2 days?
1982, same group, 3 days?
1983, same group, 3 days?
1984, same group, 2 days?
1984, same group, 1 day?
1986, same group, 1 day?
1987, senate and house both dem, white house republican, 1 day?
1990, senate and house both dem, white house republican, 3 day?
1995, senate and house both repub, white house democrat, 5 days?
1996, same group, 21 days?
2013, house repubs, senate dems, white house dems, 10 days and counting....
So let's see, since a government shutdown is usually attributed to an uncoorperative house... since 1977 (which is as far back as I could find)....
The dem house has had 14 government shutdowns for a total of 85 days.. repubs have had 3 for 36 days...
I also find it funny that when Reagan was in office in the 80s all of the shutdowns were for 2 or 3 days...
Keep moving left because you feel safer my friend.
Part of it started already. Dumping short bonds, interest went up two or three times. Fidelity and B of A, I believe. That is real. Fed up with this crap.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
You have it backwards, the republicans pretend that religion is science, it's the democrats that pretend that science is a religion.
The only people I see saying that science is a religion are of the conservative and religious slant. Saying this makes it easy to argue against the informative nature of science and dampen any personal doubts about the informative nature of one's religion. If your religion is the only one, as most religions often state, you can feel safe ignoring the words of other religions. By putting science next to any religion, by making this false equivalence, you're doing two things. First, you're setting your religion up to the measuring stick that is science which eventually leads to the disproof of certain aspects of said religion. Look no farther than the hubbub surrounding evolution. Second, you point out that religion doesn't change much over time. It can't. The philosophy of a specific religion is based off of the teachings of a person or handful of individuals, these strictures are what make a religion. Science changes as our understanding of topics changes. There is always a march toward the verifiable truth.
This is why, I believe, that there is such a disconnect between current republican and tea party and other conservatives and science. When you hear someone say that these three groups are anti-science, they mean that they don't believe one of these avenues of science that directly intersects with their religion. Contrary to all the evidence we have piled up, their ideals and faith trump all. Which gets back to that false equivalence of religion and science.
Anyways, this is why I think neither religion or science are mutually exclusive. One can still be religious, yet believe in the veracity of evolution. If science and religion are circles in a venn diagram they'd never touch since they touch on completely different topic and generally never have a similar topic or answer in common.
I believe you misunderstood DC on your first point though. He was pointing out how many politicians hold onto "talking points" of science with the same veracity and stranglehold as if it were a religion. This includes points on which the science community as a whole may not have complete agreement on yet. Once a scientific topic is politicized it becomes an entirely different animal.
Last edited by no_logo_required; 10/10/1305:40 PM.
I believe you misunderstood DC on your first point though. He was pointing out how many politicians hold onto "talking points" of science with the same veracity and stranglehold as if it were a religion. This includes points on which the science community as a whole may not have complete agreement on yet. Once a scientific topic is politicized it becomes an entirely different animal.
Reading this thread is amusing: a bunch of democrats engaged in factional warfare, unaware of the larger consequence of their bickering. They don't yet realize their democracy is dying on the stage of world history. All things pass away; democracy is no exception.
I believe you misunderstood DC on your first point though. He was pointing out how many politicians hold onto "talking points" of science with the same veracity and stranglehold as if it were a religion. This includes points on which the science community as a whole may not have complete agreement on yet. Once a scientific topic is politicized it becomes an entirely different animal.
Sorry, added in a different second paragraph.
If I misunderstood DC, I apologize!
He is right but your answer was also largely correct. Our church just finished a 4 part sermon series on why science and religion are not mutually exclusive... it was pretty interesting..
Quote: I have never been accused of underestimating the lack of intellect among the American citizens when it comes to politics.
I would add that most Americans lack the intellect of a snail when it comes to most aspects of life.
Quote: Of course they don't.. and anybody who proclaims that it could is labeled a tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist... and getting to say "I told you so" is going to be a very hollow victory some day.
I won't be out there saying, "I told you so." I'll simply ignore them but if they threaten me while in their despair, I'll relieve them of their problems.
Quote: Which is kind of my point.
Well, if they appoint themselves you would be correct. If the media appoints them, you should reject that label being placed on them unless the person accepts it.
Quote: It might.. when we are done, think we can force a vote on it in Congress?
Nah. I wouldn't give them my sanction in any way, even if that means just asking them to vote on it.
Quote: I would bet most Americans are unaware there IS a problem in Greece, and most probably think Cyprus is a tree.
I would bet that most Americans would ask who's causing the 'grease' shortage and I'd further bet that most of them don't even know that cypress is a type of tree. They'd probably suspect that you're trying to pull a fast one on them.
Quote: Who says the folks in congress aren't suffering through the shutdown.. this congressman has to live without towel service at the house gym.
LOL $260 and this damn fool is complaining about a towel service not being available to him..... I wish I could get an Gym Membership for $260 a year.
I don't know who this guy is, I don't know if he's a D or and R or an I. And I don't care because it simply doesn't matter. This kinda thinking is what's killing us.
I recognize that this is being take a little out of context. But I do think it's generally what the problem is with our leaders.
I admit to looking it up, and he is a Democrat. Between this and Harry Reid's multiple idiotic statements during this shutdown, I would think that the Democrats would be ready to try something to get this ended.
And the republicans are trying so damn hard right?
Like I said, I don't care what party he's with, there isn't a politician in DC that is worth a plug nickel.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: I would bet that most Americans would ask who's causing the 'grease' shortage and I'd further bet that most of them don't even know that cypress is a type of tree. They'd probably suspect that you're trying to pull a fast one on them.
Observe the disdain for the common man. Read through this thread and note how many posters disparage the average American. Evidence for the death of democracy is all around us, even on this obscure message board, and yet every person posting here would call himself a democrat. Ironic, no?
Quote: Nelson, what you and everybody else that wants to cut spending and pay off the debt needs to understand is that the debt is an illusion. The only reason we have a national debt is that we created the Federal Reserve.
I don't belong to or follow the people behind this website, but they do a very Good (although not perfect) job of explaining why the debt is so high and how it can be easily eliminated. I'd vote for anybody who got behind the idea of abolishing the fed. Read this:
Yep, I've read that info before... they are not for profit (not non-profit) and yet they charge us interest on our own money. Then they are independent but within the government, show me where? They exist as a private entity. You can own stock (and you have to own a certain amount to be in the system... what system?) and receive a 6% annual dividend, yet they are not for profit and nobody owns them... ???? Just the first page is so full of misleading statements it's awful.
The debt this country is in...were in big trouble...its the beginning of some very hard times....very hard times.....that's all I gotta say......life as we know it the USA is probably going to change drastically in the next decade or two....
our quality of life is going to be reduced substantially.....shame such hard times are coming...when they could have been prevented with sound leadership.
I never understood why people expect God to build a universe with natural processes in it ...... but expect that He should use some other, supernatural abilities to have built it. Of course God would use the processes that He created for His universe to build it.
God and science are not mutually exclusive. IMHO, God is the greatest scientist ever.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Man, every time one of those idiots opens his mouth, they just prove the ineptitude that has become Washington, D.C.
And the stupidity of those who nominate and elect them. (often over and over, and over, and over, and over, and over .....)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
FreeAgent, if you can't be bothered to take the two seconds required to click on the link, why do you think I should bother to explain it to you?
It's wild-eyed crazy, lunatic-fringe propaganda that would make Josef Goebbels proud.
The debt is absolutely the most major problem this country has ever faced. There is no easy way out. There is no simple solution. It is NOT caused by "growth", it is largely the result of stupid politicians buying votes by handing out money to as many non-productive people as possible.
Anyone telling you there is a simple, easy solution is lying to you. The solution is, in fact quite simple, but it won't be easy.
Cut everything to the bone. Cut until it bleeds. Then cut some more. Teach everyone that if you can't feed yourself, or your children, that's is a serious problem that will no longer penalize working people who understand the necessity to do these things.
Teach people that they do not have the right to reach into the pockets of their friends and neighbors just to do "social work" that makes them feel better. You want to bankrupt yourself helping others, have at it. You want to bankrupt those who work for a living, bring your gun because we will.
Communism and Socialism failed totally. There is a reason for that. Productivity must be rewarded, non-productivity need not be punished, we just must STOP artificially sustaining it.
You have it backwards, the republicans pretend that religion is science, it's the democrats that pretend that science is a religion.
Either way religion should be treated as religion and science should be treated as science. If done correctly neither need suffer. However, the line I draw is that in public schools religious teachings should be taught outside of the school, by the parents, church, or other places or worship (1st amendment reasons).
Quote:
Political terrorism? Exaggerate much?
Not in my mind. Either do what we want, or we blow the system up. I fail to see how this is any different than negotiating with terrorists.
Quote: Who were the political terrorists in 1976 when the dems controlled both the house and senate and we had a republican president and congress shut down the government for 10 days
I would have called them out for the same despicable tactic, but I wasn't born yet. In fact, the first election I voted in was in the second G.W. Bush election. Let's say I wasn't as politically inclined when I wasn't born or couldn't vote. I could care less democrat or republican, I will always view the party most responsible for a shutdown in a negative light.
Quote: Keep moving left because you feel safer my friend.
It's not that I feel safer, it's I feel the left is progressing with the times.The republicans have become less doctrinally flexible than the Catholic Church.
Quote: Who says the folks in congress aren't suffering through the shutdown.. this congressman has to live without towel service at the house gym.
LOL $260 and this damn fool is complaining about a towel service not being available to him..... I wish I could get an Gym Membership for $260 a year.
I don't know who this guy is, I don't know if he's a D or and R or an I. And I don't care because it simply doesn't matter. This kinda thinking is what's killing us.
I recognize that this is being take a little out of context. But I do think it's generally what the problem is with our leaders.
The real problem is that the guy can't even divide 260 by 12
Quote: Man, every time one of those idiots opens his mouth, they just prove the ineptitude that has become Washington, D.C.
And the stupidity of those who nominate and elect them. (often over and over, and over, and over, and over, and over .....)
The saddest part of this is what I've been complaining about for years now, we, I mean you and me and every individual out there, argue over who is right and who is wrong about any given circumstance.
My truth is, I don't believe any of them work for you and me.
Ask yourself this, when did it become OK for a Senator to live by rules other than those he/she requires us to live by? When did that become OK?
When did it become necessary for them to have a better benefit package or retirement plan than any of us get on a general basis? When did that become OK? Why shouldn't they be required to live by all the same rules that they impose on us?
A friend of mine wrote on my Facebook wall that he thinks they all act like little school children and should be fired for dereliction of duty? You know, I think he may be right.
The question is, how do we accomplish that and be sure that the next group won't do the same damn thing?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Not in my mind. Either do what we want, or we blow the system up. I fail to see how this is any different than negotiating with terrorists.
If you want to refer to all of them as terrorists, fine. Singling out republicans is stupid. It takes 2 non-cooperative parties to have a stand-off. Wasn't it the president who said he would compromise but not negotiate? First of all, what the hell does that even mean? Second of all, have the dems allowed ANY of the short term measures that could have helped alleviate the problem? Nope. They are spending more to keep parks closed than it would cost to keep them open... JUST TO PROVE A POINT.
Quote: However, the line I draw is that in public schools religious teachings should be taught outside of the school, by the parents, church, or other places or worship (1st amendment reasons).
Should religion be included in the teachings of history as it is particularly relevant to almost every aspect of world history?
Quote: I would have called them out for the same despicable tactic, but I wasn't born yet.
So it is your contention then that the government should have never been shut down?
Quote: It's not that I feel safer, it's I feel the left is progressing with the times.The republicans have become less doctrinally flexible than the Catholic Church.
On social issues you are probably correct.. on fiscal issues the left is heading down a very dangerous path that can only end one way..... Not that the right is too terribly far behind them...
Quote: ... and yet every person posting here would call himself a democrat. Ironic, no?
No. I would call myself a republican, not a democrat. I would never call myself a democrat, neither lowercase or uppercase.
Mantis isn't talking about political parties, I think. When he says "democrat" he means someone who supports democracy.
I know exactly what he meant. He used it the same way that I used the word 'republican'. I stress the lowercase nature of the usage because it's important to make the distinction.
Quote: and yet every person posting here would call himself a democrat.
I assume you mean a democrat as in, "somebody who believes in democracy" and not a democrat as in, "I believe we should keep printing and borrowing money at an unsustainable level forever."
So I'll answer based on the first.. yes I believe in democracy, wish we still had one that worked.
Quote: Observe the disdain for the common man. Read through this thread and note how many posters disparage the average American.
I believe the average American has the best of intentions, I just think they are painfully uninformed.. and it's really hard to blame them. The media is 5% facts and news and 95% sensationalism and opinion... and while we have 8 million times more news sources and options than they had just a few decades ago, it's actually harder to get decent information, it's very easy to become overwhelmed because you don't know who or what to believe because everybody is contradicting everybody else so many people have chosen another option... give up.
Just speaking for myself, I don't follow the news nearly as closely as I did 10-15 years ago.. for a few reasons.. 1, it's depressing as hell... 2, it's a bunch of people telling me what to believe instead of giving me facts and letting me make a decision.. 3, it's a bunch of people telling me who to blame, while nobody is really addressing the problem.. 4, the deck has been stacked so bad in favor of the incumbent and the system that change seems all but impossible.... So in the end, why try? Why work hard to understand what is going on in Greece? Why work hard to understand why the banking system collapsed? Why work hard to understand the eventual effects of trillions of dollars of inflation and growing? What can I do to change it? I can vote... do you realize how totally useless that seems right about now?
So given a few hours in the evening and on the weekends I can either spend time with my kids, watch football, go to the gym... or I can spend time trying to understand a whole bunch of really depressing crap that is outside of my control anyway... So yes I mock the people for being uninformed, but I don't really blame them...
How the Shutdown Threatens Some Home Owners By Rick Newman | The Exchange – Mon, Oct 7, 2013 4:58 PM
At first, the government shutdown only seemed to affect bureaucrats in Washington. But the longer it persists, the more it is harming ordinary people who never knew they had a stake in Washington’s nauseating political battles.
The government has told about 60 home owners in southern Nevada, for instance, that they need to leave their property for the duration of the shutdown, because their homes sit on federal land in the Lake Mead Recreational Area. Since Lake Mead is managed by the feds, anybody who happens to own a home within its boundaries is technically a “visitor” subject to the same lockout that applies to tourists, hikers, campers or sportsmen seeking access to federal land.
The rules governing Lake Mead say that the only homes allowed there must be vacation homes, with the owners having a primary residence someplace else, so they’re not considered full-time, year-round residents of the park. But some home owners apparently got into the habit of spending most of their time at Lake Mead, anyway. Joyce Spencer, 77, said she and her husband Ralph, who is 80, had to move in with nearby family after a park ranger told them they had 24 hours to evacuate the Lake Mead home they’ve owned since the 1970s. “I had to buy Ralph undershirts and jeans because I forgot his pants," Joyce Spencer told TV station KTNV. “I had to be sure and get his walker and his scooter.”
As infuriating as it might be to get kicked out of your home thanks to combative politicians, there doesn’t seem to be much Lake Mead owners can do about it. Anybody who defies the order to leave can be issued a citation -- and sent to jail if they try to protest by not paying it. Bob Hitchcock, 71, who owns a cabin on the shores of Lake Mead, told the Las Vegas Review Journal that he thought about staying on the property and challenging the order to leave. “Are they really going to come down hard on somebody for trespassing inside his own home?” he wondered. But then he decided they might do exactly that, and chose to sit tight in his Las Vegas home until the shutdown is over.
Strict new prohibitions on entering federal lands since the shutdown went into effect are surely coming as a surprise to thousands of people who use the national parks every day. The government says all national parks and other types of properties it administers are closed, though it’s obviously impossible to secure every trailhead or other entrance to millions of acres of wilderness. Plus, there’s now only limited staff to patrol the parks, since more than 21,000 park service employees—nearly 90% of the total--have been furloughed. Without a doubt, there are some campers in back-country areas along the Appalachian Trail, Pacific Crest Trail and other forest ways who aren’t even aware of the shutdown, and might just disappear back into the woods if they learned about it. Plus, it's fall, which is peak time for leaf-peeping and for tourists hoping to take advantage of thinned-out summer crowds.
Still, as the shutdown drifts into a second week, it’s beginning to impact people far from Washington in ways that are both deliberate and unintentional. Preschool classes have been closed in many states that rely upon federal funds to keep classrooms open. Shortfalls in nutritional funding for low-income mothers and their babies could leave thousands without infant formula and other types of support, with funding running out soonest in Arkansas and Utah.
Shutdown anxiety is also starting to spook the stock market, which rose slightly last week—when it all seemed like temporary posturing—but has now begun to decline as politicians harden their positions and a resolution begins to look distant. Analysts expect the stock-market jitters to intensify as the political gridlock morphs into a much bigger battle over extending the nation’s borrowing limit, which could lead to a default on U.S. debt by around Oct. 17, when the Treasury will exhaust its ability to fully finance the government. In that regard, the shutdown will begin to pinch anybody with an investment portfolio or a retirement plan.
Unfortunately, the pain being inflicted on ordinary people doesn’t seem sufficient to convince lawmakers to resolve the stalemate, with most signs suggesting the shutdown will continue until Oct. 17, at least. At that point, lawmakers may be in a better position to make a deal on several big fiscal issues all at one.
Another week or two of no government, meanwhile, would be good news for one spirited group of Americans: Washington, D.C.-area skateboarders, who are usually banned from the smooth, wide promenades that flank many government buildings and represent ideal skateboarding terrain. With government workers and security officers scarce, the Wall Street Journal reports, skateboarders are moving onto federal turf like wildlife reclaiming habitat when a new preserve is established. A skateboarder invasion couldn’t have happened in a better town.
Another week or two of no government, meanwhile, would be good news for one spirited group of Americans: Washington, D.C.-area skateboarders, who are usually banned from the smooth, wide promenades that flank many government buildings and represent ideal skateboarding terrain. With government workers and security officers scarce, the Wall Street Journal reports, skateboarders are moving onto federal turf like wildlife reclaiming habitat when a new preserve is established. A skateboarder invasion couldn’t have happened in a better town.
Hahahah! I love it
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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