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jc
So I just read that it is estimated to have cost 24 billion for this shutdown (LINK), and all federal furloughed employees will receive back pay, so essentially, there was no point to furloughing them, it would have saved 24 billion to have them stand at the parks, museums, etc and turn people away.
i am so through with this crap. I just don't give a damn anymore. How depressing. The finger pointing nonsense, the political drivel from both sides. They only care about themselves and getting re-elected. This country is doomed.
#gmstrong
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2/3rds of what it is now....I believe about 10 Trillion...(bad enough)
http://www.skymachines.com/US-National-Debt-Per-Capita-Percent-of-GDP-and-by-Presidental-Term.htm
I'm not sure of that number, I think that's what it was when Bush left office.
I wish I knew where to look.
Did you ever notice that people that don't want to answer are the very first to say that it doesn't matter?
Fact is, it does matter. And another thing that matters is what condition the economy was in when Bush took over and what it was when he left office.
#GMSTRONG
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I was sitting in my doctor's office, and they had CNN on. The broadcast, 3 or 4 days into the shutdown, was how families were going to be thrown out of their homes ...... how children of federal employees were already starving ....... and so on.
I called BS, rather loudly. This other guy said that I must not understand what is going on. I told him that every single federal employee will get every penny of back pay .... just wait and see.
He said that I lacked compassion, and that there are people losing their homes already. (after 3 days, and no one missing a paycheck to that point) I said that these federal employees just got a paid vacation, and that's all.
This got me dirty looks from several other people in the waiting room.
I wish I could find those people today. Maybe I'll see some of them next time I go to that particular doctor's office again. I doubt that they would even think to say that I was right though.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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They all talk about wanting to cut; until it comes to their district Mitch McConnell gets nearly $3 billion for Kentucky dam project in congressional deal By Eric Pfeiffer, Yahoo News16 hours ago Mitch McConnell's home state won nearly $3 billion in new funding for a long-standing project (AP) Most experts agree that there were no real winners in the government shutdown debate. And many political forecasters say the brunt of fallout from the debate over the shutdown and the debt ceiling is likely to hurt Republican lawmakers. However, the nation’s leading Republican senator came out of the deal far from empty handed. That’s because it’s been reported that Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell secured language in the new government funding bill that includes nearly $3 billion for a dam project in his home state of Kentucky. According to reports, a provision in the funding bill includes $2.918 billion in funding to the Army Corps of Engineers to install locks as part of the Olmsted Dam and Lock Authority Project on the Ohio River. A recent investigation by the St. Louis Post-Dispatch found that the project has run millions of dollars over budget and should have been completed “years ago.” The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers estimates that the project will not be fully complete until 2024. McConnell’s spokesman dodged a question about the funding provision when asked by local radio affiliate WFPL. “Senators (Diane) Feinstein and (Lamar) Alexander, the chair and ranking member of the energy and water subcommittee, worked on the issue and can help you," spokesman Robert Steurer told the station. The Wall Street Journal says the funding is a substantial increase from the $755 million in funding initially designated for the project. They said the provision was the largest included in the government funding bill agreement reached on Wednesday, along with funding for a roads project in Colorado. For his part, Alexander said he supported the provision, noting the House and Senate had already approved it earlier this year. “According to the Army Corps of Engineers, 160 million taxpayer dollars will be wasted because of canceled contracts if this language is not included. Sen. [Diane] Feinstein and I, as chairman and ranking member of the Energy and Water Appropriations Subcommittee, requested this provision,” Alexander said in a statement to BuzzFeed. Alexander’s home state of Tennessee is also expected to benefit from the Olmsted dam project, along with Illinois. The provision is not technically an earmark, the now barred forms of special project funding that for years was added to larger spending bills in order to win the support of lawmakers. However, that didn’t stop the conservative watchdog site Senate Conservatives Fund from going after McConnell. “Well now U.S. Senator Mitch McConnell (R-KY) has an Obamacare earmark of his own,” the site said in a post on Wednesday, comparing the provision to a funding provision won over by Nebraska Senator Ben Nelson in 2009 in exchange for his vote in favor of the Affordable Care Act. “This is an insult to all the Kentucky families who don't want to pay for Obamacare and don't want to shoulder any more debt,” the site says. McConnell faces a Republican primary challenge in his 2014 re-election race from Tea Party candidate Matt Bevin. Recent polls McConnell facing a potentially tight race against his likely Democratic opponent, Allison Lundergan Grimes. http://news.yahoo.com/congressional-deal...html?.tsrc=attm
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They all talk about wanting to cut; until it comes to their district
That's absolutely true. There are a lot of hypocrites on both sides of the aisle in DC. I never questioned that.
The problem with Washington is that they consider "small" wastes of money to not be significant enough to bother with. If we would worry about all wasted money, from tens of thousands, to billions of dollars, then maybe we could start getting this budget mess under some degree of control. Unfortunately, vote buying lives and thrives on both sides of the aisle. and political favors are paid all over the country.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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They all talk about wanting to cut; until it comes to their district
That's absolutely true. There are a lot of hypocrites on both sides of the aisle in DC. I never questioned that.
Isn't that a damn shame. I mean, cutting involves everyone.
Anyway on a side note, I'm facebook friends with many very conservative folks. I can't believe the beating that Boehner is getting on Facebook today. I mean they are just blowing him up on there.
I think for the first time, I actually feel a little bad for the guy. He can't win.
#GMSTRONG
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Anyway on a side note, I'm facebook friends with many very conservative folks. I can't believe the beating that Boehner is getting on Facebook today. I mean they are just blowing him up on there.
I think for the first time, I actually feel a little bad for the guy. He can't win.
Yup - he was a huge loser in all of this. I don't think he ever wanted this fight (anybody who's been in Washington for more than 5 minutes knew it was unwinable - all the Democrats had to do was not cave and eventually the Republicans would have to increase the debt ceiling).
Boehner got stuck in the awkward position of having to get Republicans to vote for a deal that would split his party - and he wasn't successful in getting the Tea Party radicals onto the ship -- which makes him appear quite weak.
Obama said today that we need to move forward on immigration reform and a new farm bill by the end of the year -- and it's a good time for him to continue to push his winning hand. The right is completely fractured (just look at statements by McCain, McConnell, Boehner and even Limbaugh/O'Reilly), and Obama has some political capital to work with.
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:33-34
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j/c
Yup.......we can't pay our bills as it is........so it's always a good thing to raise your debt, because someday, maybe, somehow, we'll be able to get things under control and actually start REDUCING what we owe. But that's for others to worry about, as right now, we're just concerned with our jobs. Right?
Our gov't. is failing us in a huge, huge way......and it's not just O.....it was Bush before him, and Clinton before him (no, Clinton didn't ever have a balanced budget, contrary to popular belief.......but even so, a balanced budget means you spend what you take in.......you aren't reducing debt).
So, now we'll see this same fight in a few months.......and the same thing will happen: Raise the debt limit.
Why do we even have a debt limit if all they do is raise it?
Here's a thought.......you could tax working people at 50 to 60% and we would still run a deficit. And running a deficit means adding to the debt.
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I think the point made about the Bush White house increase in debt is a fine example.
It's a prime example that no matter who is in power, this problem has been allowed to continue. For one side to point the finger at the other is pure nonsense.
It's time all Americans realize it's all of our problem and quit the infighting and finger pointing at the other.
For anyone to suggest it's one side or the other, you made an excellent point. and for those pointing fingers in one direction? It does matter.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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They all talk about wanting to cut; until it comes to their district
That's absolutely true. There are a lot of hypocrites on both sides of the aisle in DC. I never questioned that.
Isn't that a damn shame. I mean, cutting involves everyone.
Anyway on a side note, I'm facebook friends with many very conservative folks. I can't believe the beating that Boehner is getting on Facebook today. I mean they are just blowing him up on there.
I think for the first time, I actually feel a little bad for the guy. He can't win.
Boehner spoke at my wife's graduation at Xavier. Grew up dirt poor. His story was actually very compelling. He swept floors and worked his tail off until he got enough money to attend intermittent semesters at Xavier. It was a real cool story. A symbol of the American Dream. Perfect for graduates to hear. It wasn't scripted at all. Just spoke off the cuff. It was real and it was genuine. Everyone is aware of my disdain for both parties, but I had a lot of respect for him, listening to that speech.
It's amazing though what venturing to that cesspool known as Washington will do to a person.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Maybe 2006 Senator Obama should have a sit down talk with 2013 President Obama. Full Text of Obama’s Speech Against Raising the Debt Ceiling in 2006 | RedState http://www.redstate.com/alanjoelny/2013/...eiling-in-2006/March 16, 2006 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—SENATE S2237-2238: “Mr. OBAMA. Mr. President, I rise today to talk about America’s debt problem. The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. Over the past 5 years, our federal debt has increased by $3.5 trillion to $8.6 trillion. That is ‘‘trillion’’ with a ‘‘T.’’ That is money that we have borrowed from the Social Security trust fund, borrowed from China and Japan, borrowed from American taxpayers. And over the next 5 years, between now and 2011, the President’s budget will increase the debt by almost another $3.5 trillion. Numbers that large are sometimes hard to understand. Some people may wonder why they matter. Here is why: This year, the Federal Government will spend $220 billion on interest. That is more money to pay interest on our national debt than we’ll spend on Medicaid and the State Children’s Health Insurance Program. That is more money to pay interest on our debt this year than we will spend on education, homeland security, transportation, and veterans benefits combined. It is more money in one year than we are likely to spend to rebuild the devastated gulf coast in a way that honors the best of America. And the cost of our debt is one of the fastest growing expenses in the Federal budget. This rising debt is a hidden domestic enemy, robbing our cities and States of critical investments in infrastructure like bridges, ports, and levees; robbing our families and our children of critical investments in education and health care reform; robbing our seniors of the retirement and health security they have counted on. Every dollar we pay in interest is a dollar that is not going to investment in America’s priorities. Instead, interest payments are a significant tax on all Americans—a debt tax that Washington doesn’t want to talk about. If Washington were serious about honest tax relief in this country, we would see an effort to reduce our national debt by returning to responsible fiscal policies. But we are not doing that. Despite repeated efforts by Senators CONRAD and FEINGOLD, the Senate continues to reject a return to the commonsense Pay-go rules that used to apply. Previously, Pay-go rules applied both to increases in mandatory spending and to tax cuts. The Senate had to abide by the commonsense budgeting principle of balancing expenses and revenues. Unfortunately, the principle was abandoned, and now the demands of budget discipline apply only to spending. As a result, tax breaks have not been paid for by reductions in Federal spending, and thus the only way to pay for them has been to increase our deficit to historically high levels and borrow more and more money. Now we have to pay for those tax breaks plus the cost of borrowing for them. Instead of reducing the deficit, as some people claimed, the fiscal policies of this administration and its allies in Congress will add more than $600 million in debt for each of the next 5 years. That is why I will once again cosponsor the Pay-go amendment and continue to hope that my colleagues will return to a smart rule that has worked in the past and can work again. Our debt also matters internationally. My friend, the ranking member of the Senate Budget Committee, likes to remind us that it took 42 Presidents 224 years to run up only $1 trillion of foreign-held debt. This administration did more than that in just 5 years. Now, there is nothing wrong with borrowing from foreign countries. But we must remember that the more we depend on foreign nations to lend us money, the more our economic security is tied to the whims of foreign leaders whose interests might not be aligned with ours. Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘‘the buck stops here.’’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit” h/t to recentlyenlightened. Yesterday, I had posted that the text of this speech was removed from the online Senate records after NRO linked to it. recentlyenlightened pointed me in the direction of this text that the Heritage Foundation dug up from the Government Printing Office this morning
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Shhhh.
That was then. This is now.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I think the point made about the Bush White house increase in debt is a fine example.
It's a prime example that no matter who is in power, this problem has been allowed to continue. For one side to point the finger at the other is pure nonsense.
It's time all Americans realize it's all of our problem and quit the infighting and finger pointing at the other.
For anyone to suggest it's one side or the other, you made an excellent point. and for those pointing fingers in one direction? It does matter.
You nailed it Pit. It's almost as if the politicians are using the oldest of war strategies. Divide and conquer. We as a people are unbeatable, if we stick together. But when being pulled in different directions, we turn into a weak bunch of jelly fish that are easily swayed. (that's as a whole of course)
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I wish someone in the media would call him out on this.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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If it's a sign of Obamas leadership failure then it's the same for every president who, during their term, had the debt ceiling raised.. Somehow, it's all Obama. Look, I'm not fond of the man. In fact, He's clearly a bad president. but if you blame him for the debt we have now, (approx 17 billion) then you have to blame Bush for the difference between what it was when Clinton left office and what he handed off to Obama.. and so on and so on.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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It's all focused on Obama now because he's the one in office.
He's also the one that took issue with it in 2006, which now makes him a hypocrite. What other president's did isn't at issue... it is what the current one is doing that matters.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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It's all focused on Obama now because he's the one in office.
He's also the one that took issue with it in 2006, which now makes him a hypocrite. What other president's did isn't at issue... it is what the current one is doing that matters.
Oh hell Purp,, for at least the last 25 or more years, every potential candidate for President has and will in the future beat on the debt as the number one issue. Just in case you missed the memo, ALL POLITICIANS ARE HYPOCRITES. Obama hasn't cornered the market on that. Although I agree, he is a hypocrite.
It IS important what the previous President(s) did. They leave the country either in good condition or bad condition. They leave the new President with either a tough road or a less then tough road ahead. (the very nature of the job doesn't allow for an easy road ahead)
I absolutely believe that those that think ONLY the current presidents actions and record matters are just playing politics. It's the old blame game.
The current president has to deal with the hand he was dealt. and that is absolutely relevant.
This current president was dealt a bad hand. anyone that doubts it, just go back and look at what things were like when he was sworn in, then look at 2 months before the election. Then look at what took place in his first 90 days in office. Anyone wanna try and tell me that things were rosey?
Not a pretty site if you take off the partisan glasses.. Think about what the next president is going to have on his plate. If it's a republican, I bet the very people that say "the current president is the only thing that matters" will change their tune.. They'll blame everything on Obama..I Guarantee it.
But here's a deal for you, if you and every other vocal opponent of Obama on this board will take a pledge or oath to NOT BLAME OBAMA when the new president comes in, then I'll stand corrected..
Come on, if you really believe what you are saying, then take the oath or pledge..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Is that really what you think is important, that your guy not get blamed?
That is so far down on my list that I'm not gonna give it any more thought.
If it gets as bad as I think it will, tell you what I'll do. I will make a very strong recommendation that, when we are lining them up against a wall and putting bullets in their heads for treason, we execute Obama last.
That make you happy?
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I absolutely believe that those that think ONLY the current presidents actions and record matters are just playing politics. It's the old blame game.
But this clown's well into his second term, we are much worse off than when he took over, and there's no indication that things are improving. It's time to stop blaming the previous administration. Bush screwed up and this guy's taking it to another level. I really wonder why you find a need to jump to Obama's defense at every opportunity.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Is that really what you think is important, that your guy not get blamed?
Is that ALL You got out of that? Really?
I don't give a damn who gets blamed for what.. Obama isn't "MY GUY". Yes, I voted for him the first time, look at the alternatives, I could NOT vote for McCain.., Just couldn't do it.
But that doesn't make him "MY GUY"
I only one thing to say about the rest of your post 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I absolutely believe that those that think ONLY the current presidents actions and record matters are just playing politics. It's the old blame game.
But this clown's well into his second term, we are much worse off than when he took over, and there's no indication that things are improving. It's time to stop blaming the previous administration. Bush screwed up and this guy's taking it to another level. I really wonder why you find a need to jump to Obama's defense at every opportunity.
I don't disagree with you at all J., This is a mess. But to say to me that what he inherited doesn't matter is just flat out wrong. And it's all about Blame.
What he should have done was steady the economy and put aside his agenda for Heathcare Reform until that job was done. Then get agreement on how to do it between the Republicans and Dems. Rather than force it down peoples throats the way he and Pelosi and Reid did. That was flat out stupid..
Before introducing new things he needed to right the ship. He didn't do that. He went for bling and not for substance.
That's the mess he's handing to the next guy. And history shouldn't let it slide. History should beat on him for it. And if the next guy doesn't address the problems, then he or she will be no better.
Obama has done a horrible job. I mean, he just sucks as President. But to simply brush off the mess he was handed seems to be just as wrong.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Obama has done a horrible job. I mean, he just sucks as President. But to simply brush off the mess he was handed seems to be just as wrong.
He knew what he was getting when he was handed the keys to the White House. He has made no attempt at correcting the issues, and has just made them worse.
This is not to say previous leaders have not done the same, but right now, he is the man in charge, and the only one with the power to correct it at this time, therefore he gets the blame going forward until such time the next guy gets in there and continues the moronic cycle.
We can only hope, and I have my doubts, these last few weeks have really opened the eyes of the American people, and they show their displeasure with all of Washington come election time. It's about time we take back control and show them that being a politician is a service, not a career.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Can't cut from the Military until you end these wars we're in. I don't want to cut that as long as we have troops in harms way. That's just unthinkable.
No it's not. It's just like when a state or a municipality is tight, they threaten to take policemen off the street or fire teachers... they never threaten to cut out a few intern positions or let a couple accounting clerks go or an executive assistant to the head of the department of planning.. nope, it's always firemen, policemen, teachers, cancel little league.. whatever makes it appear the most dire and will hurt the people the most.
Same is true with the military. Cut out the weapons programs we don't need, the ones the generals don't even want.. that would be a good place to start... there is plenty of fluff in the military budget right now, today, that could be slashed without affecting the mission of the active duty military one iota.... but if you mention military cuts, they immediately scream that they aren't going to get medical care, they aren't going to have fuel for the vehicles, etc... bull crap.
This game that is being played, where if you threaten me with cuts, I'll cut what you NEED before I have to cut what I WANT has to stop. When the government can be shut down for a couple week and all "non-essential" personnel don't go to work and very little changes in the lives of 99% of all Americans seems to be living proof that there are cuts that could be made, efficiencies that could be realized... if they really wanted to.
yebat' Putin
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I think pointing out that article is preaching to the choir YTown.
EVERY politician says things they don't do or follow. My dad said it best. "All politicians are crooks and liars. So vote for the one you believe will be the best for you and your family."
My point was it's not Obama. It's not Bush. It's ALL of them!
They talk about cutting spending, then funnel every dime they can into their districts. I'm not pointing a finger at one side or the other. I'm pointing the finger at both sides.
If Americans could wrap their mind around that simple concept, things might change.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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You cannot necessarily vote for the guy who is best for you and your family, and the guy who is best for America. The 2 may be very different.
The guy who is best for your family may well be that guy who brings millions of dollars home to your district. He might be the guy keeping people employed by bringing lots of money home for local and federal projects, and federal needs like military spending. (whether or not those projects and/or spending are necessary, or even wise)
On the other hand may be a guy who rejects all federal spending in his district ..... which might be better for the country, but not as good for the guy's district. Rejecting those projects may actually cost his district jobs.
As far as preaching to the choir ...... I don't think that's the case at all. Maybe a bit, but I know that there are a lot of voices in the choir who blamed Bush for the shutdown during his term, and hold Obama blameless for this one. There are those who think that going over the fiscal cliff would be unimaginably horrific, because that's what a certain politician tells them, and forget what that same politician said when the roles were reversed. I think that it is important to point out such hypocrisy, especially when the media just fawns and tries its best to crate a narrative that is 100% favorable to one side. (Like CNN talking about people losing their homes, and not being able to feed their families, 3 days into a government shutdown ...... and talking up the Republicans as uncaring)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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It's all focused on Obama now because he's the one in office.
He's also the one that took issue with it in 2006, which now makes him a hypocrite. What other president's did isn't at issue... it is what the current one is doing that matters.
Oh hell Purp,, for at least the last 25 or more years, every potential candidate for President has and will in the future beat on the debt as the number one issue. Just in case you missed the memo, ALL POLITICIANS ARE HYPOCRITES. Obama hasn't cornered the market on that. Although I agree, he is a hypocrite.
It IS important what the previous President(s) did. They leave the country either in good condition or bad condition. They leave the new President with either a tough road or a less then tough road ahead. (the very nature of the job doesn't allow for an easy road ahead)
I absolutely believe that those that think ONLY the current presidents actions and record matters are just playing politics. It's the old blame game.
The current president has to deal with the hand he was dealt. and that is absolutely relevant.
This current president was dealt a bad hand. anyone that doubts it, just go back and look at what things were like when he was sworn in, then look at 2 months before the election. Then look at what took place in his first 90 days in office. Anyone wanna try and tell me that things were rosey?
Not a pretty site if you take off the partisan glasses.. Think about what the next president is going to have on his plate. If it's a republican, I bet the very people that say "the current president is the only thing that matters" will change their tune.. They'll blame everything on Obama..I Guarantee it.
But here's a deal for you, if you and every other vocal opponent of Obama on this board will take a pledge or oath to NOT BLAME OBAMA when the new president comes in, then I'll stand corrected..
Come on, if you really believe what you are saying, then take the oath or pledge..
I wasn't comparing him to other Presidents. I was speaking only about him.
The reason that ONLY the current presidents actions matter is because he is the ONLY one that can affect anything going forward.
You can look at previous presidents all day long if you want to understand how/why we're here... but none of that matters worth a damn in the PRESENT.
Glad you might finally be taking off your partisan glasses, though....
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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He knew what he was getting when he was handed the keys to the White House. He has made no attempt at correcting the issues, and has just made them worse.
I think it's correct in the context of a short time frame prior to the actual election. But when he tossed his hat into the ring, it wasn't in nearly as bad a shape.
Things started to dip in 2006 but the wheels came off the truck in about August 2008. That's and at that moment, there wasn't a generally accepted belief that things would get as bad as they did as quickly as they did.
If I'd have said to you that GM would have to go Bankrupt in 2006 would you have said I was nuts? I would have said I was nuts LOL! I would not have believed it.
By the time it was clear what was happening, the election was less than 45 days away. There was no way he could have backed out.
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This is not to say previous leaders have not done the same, but right now, he is the man in charge, and the only one with the power to correct it at this time, therefore he gets the blame going forward until such time the next guy gets in there and continues the moronic cycle.
Of course he gets the blame. I'm saying that placing the blame on him without looking at what he inherited is wrong and will always lead to the wrong conclusion.
I'm with you on the "opening of american eyes" thing.
It's pretty clear to me that extremes don't work for the majority of people. You can be extreme right or left and have a view that will serve the most Americans. Just can't happen. The President and other elected officials need to find balance. I've been saying that for forever.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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He knew what he was getting when he was handed the keys to the White House. He has made no attempt at correcting the issues, and has just made them worse.
Do you really believe that this country is worse off now than it was in early 2009? Seriously? I mean, I certainly don't agree with much the POTUS does and I think things are far from perfect but....seriously?
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*In Baker we trust*
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Can't cut from the Military until you end these wars we're in. I don't want to cut that as long as we have troops in harms way. That's just unthinkable.
No it's not. It's just like when a state or a municipality is tight, they threaten to take policemen off the street or fire teachers... they never threaten to cut out a few intern positions or let a couple accounting clerks go or an executive assistant to the head of the department of planning.. nope, it's always firemen, policemen, teachers, cancel little league.. whatever makes it appear the most dire and will hurt the people the most.
Same is true with the military. Cut out the weapons programs we don't need, the ones the generals don't even want.. that would be a good place to start... there is plenty of fluff in the military budget right now, today, that could be slashed without affecting the mission of the active duty military one iota.... but if you mention military cuts, they immediately scream that they aren't going to get medical care, they aren't going to have fuel for the vehicles, etc... bull crap.
This game that is being played, where if you threaten me with cuts, I'll cut what you NEED before I have to cut what I WANT has to stop. When the government can be shut down for a couple week and all "non-essential" personnel don't go to work and very little changes in the lives of 99% of all Americans seems to be living proof that there are cuts that could be made, efficiencies that could be realized... if they really wanted to.
Ok, I see your point. I hadn't thought of cutting only those programs that are unneeded or unwanted. I buy that. Just don't put our military out in the field and cut the number of bullets than can have.. That would be tragic.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I think pointing out that article is preaching to the choir YTown.
EVERY politician says things they don't do or follow. My dad said it best. "All politicians are crooks and liars. So vote for the one you believe will be the best for you and your family."
My point was it's not Obama. It's not Bush. It's ALL of them!
They talk about cutting spending, then funnel every dime they can into their districts. I'm not pointing a finger at one side or the other. I'm pointing the finger at both sides.
If Americans could wrap their mind around that simple concept, things might change.
JMHO
It's a good opinion Pit.. I like it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It IS important what the previous President(s) did. They leave the country either in good condition or bad condition. They leave the new President with either a tough road or a less then tough road ahead. (the very nature of the job doesn't allow for an easy road ahead)
I absolutely believe that those that think ONLY the current presidents actions and record matters are just playing politics. It's the old blame game.
Daman, to add to what purp said.. I generally agree with this comment but by the same token, every time a President screws the pooch, one segment or the other always reaches back into history to previous administrations to show why this particular screwing of the pooch is not different, nor better or worse than before... If singling out this President (or this congress) is playing the blame game, then equating everything they do to previous presidents and congresses is playing the deflecting game.
It normalizes bad behavior... we all agree that a lot of what these politicians do is stupid, yet because every politician since Lincoln has done many of the same things, it has become something that we just accept.... If we are opposed to the people doing the stupid thing then it's the worst thing ever and is surely the end of the world... if we support the people doing the stupid then, well then it's just something they do like everybody before them.
We need to get to a point where a decision, an action, stands on it's own merit and it is either good or bad, regardless of who did what before... I'm sure we will have debates on what is good and what is bad based on our various perspectives, but nothing should be immediately deemed, good, bad, or acceptable based on what previous administrations did.
yebat' Putin
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It's all focused on Obama now because he's the one in office.
He's also the one that took issue with it in 2006, which now makes him a hypocrite. What other president's did isn't at issue... it is what the current one is doing that matters.
Oh hell Purp,, for at least the last 25 or more years, every potential candidate for President has and will in the future beat on the debt as the number one issue. Just in case you missed the memo, ALL POLITICIANS ARE HYPOCRITES. Obama hasn't cornered the market on that. Although I agree, he is a hypocrite.
It IS important what the previous President(s) did. They leave the country either in good condition or bad condition. They leave the new President with either a tough road or a less then tough road ahead. (the very nature of the job doesn't allow for an easy road ahead)
I absolutely believe that those that think ONLY the current presidents actions and record matters are just playing politics. It's the old blame game.
The current president has to deal with the hand he was dealt. and that is absolutely relevant.
This current president was dealt a bad hand. anyone that doubts it, just go back and look at what things were like when he was sworn in, then look at 2 months before the election. Then look at what took place in his first 90 days in office. Anyone wanna try and tell me that things were rosey?
Not a pretty site if you take off the partisan glasses.. Think about what the next president is going to have on his plate. If it's a republican, I bet the very people that say "the current president is the only thing that matters" will change their tune.. They'll blame everything on Obama..I Guarantee it.
But here's a deal for you, if you and every other vocal opponent of Obama on this board will take a pledge or oath to NOT BLAME OBAMA when the new president comes in, then I'll stand corrected..
Come on, if you really believe what you are saying, then take the oath or pledge..
I wasn't comparing him to other Presidents. I was speaking only about him.
The reason that ONLY the current presidents actions matter is because he is the ONLY one that can affect anything going forward.
You can look at previous presidents all day long if you want to understand how/why we're here... but none of that matters worth a damn in the PRESENT.
Glad you might finally be taking off your partisan glasses, though....
LOL,, I didn't think I was ever wearing partisan glasses.. But OK.
Anyway, I recognize that the only president that matters today is the one in office. Can't deny it, won't even try. But to look at a presidents record and say he's to blame for all that is wrong without regard to what happened before him isn't wearing partisan glasses, it's wearing blinders.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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If I'd have said to you that GM would have to go Bankrupt in 2006 would you have said I was nuts? I would have said I was nuts LOL! I would not have believed it.
GM has been in trouble for a decade or more prior to their bankruptcy. It was generally accepted that their legacy costs were unsustainable, and they just continued to get worse. They were in the worst shape of any of the Big 3 .... but even though Chrysler was also in big time trouble, they had the resources of Daimler behind them at the time.
Maybe I just pay more attention to this stuff because I used to be in the business. GM lost almost 10% of their sales in 2006 compared to 2005. The other manufacturers were also down in sales. 2006 was the 1st year of a decline. 2007 was the 2nd. It was a trend, and even 0% interest couldn't save them. 2008 and 20099 saw big declines in sales, but the trend was already there.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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He knew what he was getting when he was handed the keys to the White House. He has made no attempt at correcting the issues, and has just made them worse.
Do you really believe that this country is worse off now than it was in early 2009? Seriously? I mean, I certainly don't agree with much the POTUS does and I think things are far from perfect but....seriously?
Not even sure what your point is, or you have a typo. YOU don't think we are worse off now, and mind you we are talking about the debt?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I have a solution. Elect me president. In one term, I could change things, as long as I had a cooperative congress. Huge cuts would be made.......and they wouldn't necessarily hurt all that much....but make no mistake, they would hurt. Congress could blame me all they wanted. I would take it. I would, or may, end up the most hated president in the history of the u.s. The short term pain would benefit the country in the long term. As it is, we just keep kicking the debt limit up............time after time after time. At some point, someone's going to HAVE to pay. Give me a line item veto, and a cooperative congress, and this mess can be fixed, especially since I'm only asking for 4 years. Oh, yes, there would be gov't. employees that hated me. Life is tough. I have business competitors right now that hate me. There would, without a doubt, be pain. With a cooperative congress, I would even raise taxes - AFTER cuts were made. We WOULD have more than a balanced budget.......and the "rich" people would hate me as well. The poor would hate me, the rich would hate me, and I'd take the blame with a smile on my face, knowing that the country would be better off. Vote Arch for president. I won't care what you think of me. 
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But to look at a presidents record and say he's to blame for all that is wrong without regard to what happened before him isn't wearing partisan glasses, it's wearing blinders.
I'm pretty certain that not only have I never done that, I've never even insinuated as much.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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It IS important what the previous President(s) did. They leave the country either in good condition or bad condition. They leave the new President with either a tough road or a less then tough road ahead. (the very nature of the job doesn't allow for an easy road ahead)
I absolutely believe that those that think ONLY the current presidents actions and record matters are just playing politics. It's the old blame game.
Daman, to add to what purp said.. I generally agree with this comment but by the same token, every time a President screws the pooch, one segment or the other always reaches back into history to previous administrations to show why this particular screwing of the pooch is not different, nor better or worse than before... If singling out this President (or this congress) is playing the blame game, then equating everything they do to previous presidents and congresses is playing the deflecting game.
It normalizes bad behavior... we all agree that a lot of what these politicians do is stupid, yet because every politician since Lincoln has done many of the same things, it has become something that we just accept.... If we are opposed to the people doing the stupid thing then it's the worst thing ever and is surely the end of the world... if we support the people doing the stupid then, well then it's just something they do like everybody before them.
We need to get to a point where a decision, an action, stands on it's own merit and it is either good or bad, regardless of who did what before... I'm sure we will have debates on what is good and what is bad based on our various perspectives, but nothing should be immediately deemed, good, bad, or acceptable based on what previous administrations did.
I'm not, nor would I suggest we ever normalize bad behavior. Apparently I'm not coming across well..
Let me try it this way. If the current President takes the pooch out back for a good time, the results of that action are his and his alone. If the current president takes the pooch out back for a good time because it's the only way he can keep the dog pound from erupting in violence due to actions by the previous President, then let's be fair, some of the problem belongs to the previous leader.
I'm starting to scare myself with all this pooch talk 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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What we need is for a president to say "I don't give a crap if the pooch is mad at me - the house needs to be re-done, so the pooch is gone."
We've been headed down this bad road for a long time..........yet all we get from DC is "well, we have to spend more....." And what has it gotten us? Nothing but more spending.
We're in for a rude awakening. You, me, and them. Things have to change. One thing I guarantee is, they WILL change, but the longer the change is put off, the worse it will be.
Even if you have, say, $2 million set aside for retirement........WHEN the change comes, it's going to hit you, or me, or him. Change IS coming. And the sooner it's dealt with, the sooner we get the pain over. Republican, democrat, independent, or martian.
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~ Legend
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I mean, we're on a bubble right now that's about to be popped. I don't think we can really delay it anymore.
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