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Others have done a good job of describing this dilemma but I still have questions. Let 's say the team rolls the dice and Gordon still gets a year suspension. They do retain his rights correct? I imagine he would return and be in perpetual stage 3, right?
What I'm about to say seems simplistic, even to me, however, if the team accepts this eventuality why not just retain his rights, draft a guy in the upcoming draft and either replace Gordon with the draftee or pair him with the draftee when he comes back? Does a years suspension make him completely unsalvageable? I don't know.
There have been a few guys recently entering the league with similar measurables to Josh, Alshon Jeffrey or Ruben Randle come to mind. Could Brandon Coleman, Mike Evans or Donte Moncrief fill that void?
Thoughts...
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j/c
I think trading Gordon would be incredibly stupid. He's simply a talent that you roll with so long as he's not a locker room distraction. That said...
Any trade with a team like San Fran would require us to totally fleece them. Their next 1st & 2nd alone would not be enough. That'll darn near be a 2nd & 3rd. Simply not enough. I'd need another first and probably a third along with a player who has some talent.
Think Ricky Williams type trade...or I take the chance.
And yes...I know the 49ers won't do that.
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j/c
When was the last time a "top" NFL talent was suspended for an entire year for substance abuse (recreational drugs)?
I can't remember any.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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j/c Nothing wrong with listening to trade offers The news that the Cleveland Browns talked with the San Francisco 49ers about a trade for receiver Josh Gordon first makes a person wonder if the Browns just answered a phone call. “Hello ... fine, you? ... Thanks ... Gordon? ... For what? ... Nah.” Click. But then the news makes a person realize that the Browns owe it to themselves, their team and their fans to listen to any and all offers for any and all of their players. This isn’t exactly breaking up the undefeated Dolphins. The right offer can suddenly make someone not on the trading block trade-able. I mean, who knows when a team might offer a first-round pick for a running back? The Browns and 49ers did discuss Gordon, according to ESPN’s Adam Schefter. The details are not public, but they did have talks. San Francisco needed a receiver with Mario Manningham and Michael Crabtree hurt, though the fact both receivers will be back playing soon mitigates the need for acquiring Gordon, who is one more positive drug test from a one-year suspension. At first glance it sounds like lunacy to consider trading Gordon. He is the team’s biggest playmaker. He’s a big, fast receiver who while not sure-handed is talented, and should get better. But as nuts as a possible Gordon trade sounds, the Trent Richardson trade sounded just as nuts when it was announced. How has that worked out so far? Gordon does have that suspension hanging over his head, so a regime that didn’t draft Gordon but is looking to stockpile picks to rebuild with a splashy 2014 draft might be more apt to listen. The Browns evidently talked, and listened. That the deal was not completed should encourage Browns fans. This front office won’t just give away guys simply because they didn’t draft them. They will, though, pay attention if another team calls and makes an offer. That’s called doing their job. And not making the trade indicates the 49ers' offer was lacking. Which makes sense. Teams know about Gordon’s pending suspension issue, so they’re probably hoping to buy low. Gordon cost the Browns a second-round pick; the Browns probably have that as a starting point in a trade. The 49ers probably offered lower. Clearly it seems that prying Gordon out of Cleveland will take a lot if a team really wants to finish the deal. http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/75332/nothing-wrong-with-listening-to-trade-offers
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Chud said he's not going anywhere. There must have been behind the scenes discussions going on \ with the FO for him to put his reputation on the line and make that definitive of a statement to Gordon. Especially when it could go public, which it did.
I trust Chud's actions here.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 10/08/13 10:11 AM.
Tackles are tackles.
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That article sums up my feeling on two fronts:
1. You listen to any offer, for any player.
2. The media and fans have to understand what #1 means. It doesn't mean they are trying to trade a player, they're only listening in some cases.
Just two weeks back, there was a report that Texas universtity called Saban's agent and inquired about his interest at poptentially coaching at Texas. The press ran hard and fast with that story for two days. "Is Saban leaving?", "Would he leave and when?", "How soon are they going to fire Mack?" were all questions asked. More than likely, the phone conversation didn't get past Saban telling Texas to shove it. Also, maybe Texas made the call with no intention of even hiring Saban, they wanted to get it in the media that Saban was listening to offers. Texas high school stars are being stolen out from under them by the SEC and Saban, so maybe they did it on purpose to create a little doubt that Saban could be leaving Bama. Who knows.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Quote:
That article sums up my feeling on two fronts:
1. You listen to any offer, for any player.
2. The media and fans have to understand what #1 means. It doesn't mean they are trying to trade a player, they're only listening in some cases.
This!
Ive had several people ask me if I'd sell my motorcycle. The answer is always the same. "What will you give me?"
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NRTU
I think this is part of a fire sale mentality that is commonly associated with baseball teams dumping players an salary near the trading deadline. Once Richardson was gone, speculation is fueled more by wishful thinking than by fact.
You can speculate all you want, but I think Gordon stays. The upside is too great.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
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I felt the same thing, as soon as those "reports" surfaced after the Trich trade, Schefter assumed there was a fire sale on Browns players because he couldn't understand the move.
I think we are coming to the realization that the FO wanted to maximize value for a player they didn't feel was special. The reports that keep surfacing are reporters trying to save face for a trade that was never on the table.
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I agree that Gordon probably stays. The upside is great, but more importantly, his value in a trade will not match his value to the team until and unless he stays clean for a couple of years ...... and even then, his value to the team would only increase.
I see nothing wrong with the team taking calls about any player. That's just doing their due diligence. I can't think of any player that I wouldn't trade for the right price.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
jc..
Is there any "good behavior" clause in the drug program. Say Gordon has his 2 strikes, and stays clean for the next 7 years then tests positive, is that still a full third strike, or does he get some reprieve for staying clean for a length of time?
I was wondering the same thing... you would think you could buy back a second chance with years of good behavior....
yebat' Putin
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I don't know for 100% sure, but I believe once you reach Stage 3 you can never go back.
He will be taking random tests MUCH more than anyone else for the rest of his career ... and one more mistake, whether it is now or in a decade, would set off the year long suspension
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I thought that someone posted an article that said that after 2 years clean a guy goes back to a new beginning. I could be wrong, but I think that's what was posted.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
They will, though, pay attention if another team calls and makes an offer...
Perhaps Atlanta may call as Julio Jones is done for the season with I believe, a foot injury...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Within Gordon's current stage 2 status he will return to no stage if he doesn't fail a drug test for 2 years since his last failure. But if he reaches stage 3 he will never be able to go lower. For what is it worth almost no one ever reaches stage 3. Like in the history of NFL drug testing it is something like 3 players have ever reached stage 3. I understand Gordon has said he would be suspended a year for his next failure. But that doesn't really make sense to me when I read through the policy. web page Anyone else read this thing? Unless it has been revised since 2010 and the NLFPA didn't update their website... It would make no sense for me for Gordon to be facing stage 3 right now. Stage 2 has two suspensions per the rules.
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Legend
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We should be calling Atlanta. They are 1-4 and probably are going to miss out on the playoffs.
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Legend
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I thought that Ricky Williams was in stage 3?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Quote:
I thought that Ricky Williams was in stage 3?
is that denial?
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
I thought that Ricky Williams was in stage 3?
is that denial?
I think Ricky Williams denied he was on planet earth more than a few times. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I'm not sure if Williams was stage 3 or not. He had that goofy retirement at some point that may have been to avoid stage 3. I was including Sticky Ricky in my count of 3 players ever having reached stage 3. wiki I am using Wiki as my source for saying 2-3 players have gotten a year suspension. But seeing as Ricky Williams is no where on that list I may need to rethink my choice of a source. He was definitely suspended at some point, per his wiki page he retired to avoid a 4 game suspension. But later returned and served that suspension. Should be on the list of suspensions, but it isn't, sooo maybe my source is bad.
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All Pro
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here's a link web page nflplayers.comread "stage three"
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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So, if I read that correctly, stage 3 can lead to banishment if the player fails to comply with his treatment plan, or tests positive on any of his 10 random tests per season ...... and once in stage 3, he is there forever.
Assuming that Gordon is in Stage 2 right now, which seems likely, he would need 2 full years of clean tests (from the date of violation) and then he would be back out of the program as if he'd never had a violation of the policy.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The Browns aren't going to trade him yet. They might in the near future if they are worried about him being one strike away from a year suspension.
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Some posters are focusing on what the minimum they would accept for Gordon. I think some of those demands are outrageous.
Try it this way. If you were another team, what would you give up for Gordon? Be honest.
With his history, I would not give up anything more than a 4th and perhaps a conditional lower round pick. I really wouldn't.
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Quote:
I would not give up anything more than a 4th and perhaps a conditional lower round pick.
Which means No Sale. Period. If this FO even remotely entertained trading him for that little, they should all be tased and ran out of town.
As the Browns, you don't set your selling point based upon what you think others might pay. You set it based upon production & value to THIS team.
We're the ones with the commodity that produces. We're not desperate to dump him... if someone wants to jump high enough to take him from us, then - and ONLY then - you consider it.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Yeah, that is why I do not think he will be traded.
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Legend
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Quote:
Some posters are focusing on what the minimum they would accept for Gordon. I think some of those demands are outrageous.
Try it this way. If you were another team, what would you give up for Gordon? Be honest.
With his history, I would not give up anything more than a 4th and perhaps a conditional lower round pick. I really wouldn't.
I would slit my wrist... 
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Quote:
Quote:
I would not give up anything more than a 4th and perhaps a conditional lower round pick.
Which means No Sale. Period. If this FO even remotely entertained trading him for that little, they should all be tased and ran out of town.
As the Browns, you don't set your selling point based upon what you think others might pay. You set it based upon production & value to THIS team.
We're the ones with the commodity that produces. We're not desperate to dump him... if someone wants to jump high enough to take him from us, then - and ONLY then - you consider it.
that seams to be what the FO is doing.
Quote:
Yeah, that is why I do not think he will be traded.
might change anytime in the next 2 weeks. if a team really thinks he is the peace to help get to the superbowle or a HC thinks he can save his job?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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j/c
first round draft picks have a high potential to be busts (see our draft history since 1999). when you have something good- hold on with both hands. Remember he is only a second round supplemental pick that could be one of the best WR picks in our history. We have wasted much more in the past.
Gordon has randy moss talent. there is no way you pass up that kind of talent at age 22 for a single round pick or later. Plus He will remember how we stood by him at contract time.
Would Atlanta for a single first round? heck no. they would demand two first rounds or more. Granted he doesn't have two strikes but... he does have the same type of premier talent.
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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Browns aren't shopping Gordon per Chud today. CLEVELAND -- The Browns have no plans to trade receiver Josh Gordon, coach Rob Chudzinski said Wednesday. AP Photo/David Richard The Browns have no plans to trade receiver Josh Gordon, coach Rob Chudzinski said Wednesday. Chudzinski addressed a report from ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter that the San Francisco 49ers had talked with the Browns about acquiring Gordon. "I will say we're not shopping Josh and have no plans to trade Josh," Chudzinski said. This week marked the second time reports circulated about Gordon being on the market. The first came just before the Browns played the Minnesota Vikings in Week 3, Gordon's first game back from a two-game suspension. At that time, Gordon said he wanted to stay with the Browns. Presumably, that remains true, though Gordon was not in the locker room during the portion open to the media. In three games, Gordon has 18 catches for 303 yards and two touchdowns. He is the Browns' best playmaker, with all seven of the touchdown receptions in his career 20 yards or longer. "Within here, any kind of distraction like that has been a non-issue," quarterback Brandon Weeden said. "Those things are out of our control as players. I'm sure he's been asked the question and he's worried about playing this week." Guess we've learned you can never say never... but it's very improbable at least. (Even if Chud's quote does still leave some "wiggle room" to the issue)
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"Shopping" and "picking up the phone when someone calls" are completely different things.
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Yeah, that's why I mentioned Chud leaving some wiggle room. Either way, I'd say it's highly improbable. But somehow, over the years, the Browns do keep managing to surprise me. (Granted, so far, the T Rich trade has turned into a nice surprise)
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All it takes is one desperate team to offer more than the FO values him at. But, yes, improbable...
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j/c Browns' Joe Banner strives to be NFL's next great CEO Jim Corbett, USA TODAY Sports 11:05 p.m. EDT October 10, 2013 BEREA, Ohio -- Cleveland Browns CEO Joe Banner sat inside his second-floor office overlooking the team's practice field, rebuilding a franchise and fighting a battle between perception and reality. It's one thing when fans believe you're waving a white flag on the season, but it's another when your colleagues think so, too. After the Browns traded running back Trent Richardson to the Indianapolis Colts, the phone started ringing. Other teams wanted to go shopping in the Browns' locker room, starting with wide receiver Josh Gordon. Banner said his message was simple: "We're absolutely not shopping Josh," he told USA TODAY Sports on Thursday. "We're not going to shop him and we don't have any plan or intention to trade him." "When we did the Trent Richardson trade, the perception was we were throwing in the towel, (so) we got calls on players," Banner said. "I guess that was a natural reaction based on how the move was perceived. "If you're in this long enough, you learn to never say anything absolute, because then something comes up and you look like you lied. I personally -- and I think anybody here -- would be completely shocked if we ended up trading him. Josh is playing great. He's working his butt off." Gordon, who missed the first two games while serving a suspension for violating the league's substance abuse policy, has 18 catches for 303 years with two touchdowns since his return. Banner, 60, is the former Philadelphia Eagles president who is the architect charged with changing the culture of the Browns, who are a surprising 3-2 and tied for first place in the AFC North. If the Browns finish the season strong, they could be prime candidates for Hard Knocks next season, especially if they draft a quarterback. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl...+Top+Stories%29
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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There is no doubt Banner strives to be the best executive in the NFL ... he wants to prove to people in Philly that he is a capable and revolutionary talent evaluator and team builder ... I actually think he wants to do it for personal reasons more than the actual team, but either way if he is successful I won't care
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Quote:
"If you're in this long enough, you learn to never say anything absolute, because then something comes up and you look like you lied
I'll buy that. True in real life also...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Quote:
If the Browns finish the season strong, they could be prime candidates for Hard Knocks next season, especially if they draft a quarterback.
Oh, please God, no. We don't need that garbage here.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Quote:
If the Browns finish the season strong, they could be prime candidates for Hard Knocks next season, especially if they draft a quarterback.
Oh, please God, no. We don't need that garbage here.
I thought that too - would love to see it, but don't want any kind of distractions in there...
<><
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
If the Browns finish the season strong, they could be prime candidates for Hard Knocks next season, especially if they draft a quarterback.
Oh, please God, no. We don't need that garbage here.
They make it sound like it would be an honor to be on "Hard Knocks" I don't think it's an honor, I think it's an anchor around the teams neck.. JMO of course.
As for what Banner said about the aftermath of trading TRich, that makes a lot of sense. Teams think you are tanking the season so they come shopping. I can't prove it's true of course, but I believe it.
And as for not saying "Never", once again, I agree. What if the Steelers came calling and said, we'll give you our 1st and 2nd round picks if you give us Josh Gordon? Would you do that deal? That's not going to happen, but what if it did?
So, never say never is the lesson of the day I guess.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I always told my daughter....... "Never is a very long time."
Seeing into the future is a hard thing to do. I agree with what he said.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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