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Bridgewater in my eyes is a better NFL prospect than Griffin was. The main reason is because he is a pure passer. He uses his legs only to move not run. He understands how to play quarterback. He makes throws according to the situation. He knows when to use arm strength and when to use touch. He has great vision and can throw from multiple platforms. He is graduating a year and half early which speaks volumes for his discipline and work ethic.
He commands the huddle. According to all reports he displays great leadership. Watch his game against Florida last year. He can play against his schedule. He is close to can't miss.
FWIW, Everything bolded was also true of Griffin in college.
Griffin graduated in three years with a bachelor's degree in political science and a 3.67 GPA, while appearing on the dean's list twice. He graduated from high school a semester early.
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Josh Gordon to the Patriots for Ryan Mallet and a 2nd round pick.
That's my guess.
I could see this happening...not sure how I'd feel about it.
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Bridgewater is more Russell Wilson than RGIII, yes (use legs to find a throwing lane mostly). Manziel is actually of the same mold (but he's more willing to make the risky pass and obviously more red flags).
I do think that people underestimate UCF (they have a pretty good defense), but Bridgewater is not a cannot miss guy like a Luck. He is a very good NFL QB prospect especially with the way NFL offenses are geared now.
I really hope that he gets a good defense to go against in a BCS bowl. My fear is that if UCF wins out that he'll be relegated to a bad bowl against a bad defense. I think everyone wants to see him do a repeat performance of what he did to Florida last year.
#gmstrong
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Belichick has been careful with players with character issues. He has brought them in when he has a veteran team to help them, and always on the cheap when he does. Given the relative youth of his team, and the WR corps in specific, I cannot see him risking it with Gordon, especially at a high price. Randy Moss was a far more established receiver, with a far superior track record of production, and the Pats gave up a 4th round pick for him. I cannot see him giving up much more for any problem child.
I also cannot see the Browns trading a talent like Gordon unless the deal is weighted in what they consider to be their favor, and unless they have serious doubts about his ability to stay clean.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Josh Gordon to the Patriots for Ryan Mallet and a 2nd round pick.
That's my guess.
I could see this happening...not sure how I'd feel about it.
I'd have an uneasy feeling about it. Mallet's still unproven. Would be weary that the Pats thought he was expendable. With Mallett and Hoyer I'd still want us to get a QB in the next draft. Not sure if we'd do it.
I'm in the same boat as most who've posted before me. Would LOVE to see Gordon stay and develop into a stud, but he still seems like a risk and it really looks to me like his head isn't always there in games. Apparently Chud disagrees w/ me . . .
LINK
Chudzinski: I don’t think Josh Gordon was disengaged against Packers
Posted by Josh Alper on October 22, 2013, 9:07 AM EDT
Browns wide receiver Josh Gordon has been the subject of trade rumors over the last couple of weeks and a recent report from Adam Schefter of ESPN all but guarantees that the possibility of a deal will remain in the forefront until next week’s deadline if he isn’t traded before that point.
On Sunday against the Packers, Gordon couldn’t beat cornerback Davon House for a fourth-down pass in the fourth quarter with the Browns trailing 17-6. That failure led some to question his effort and whether Gordon’s mind might be on the trade talk rather than the task at hand. Gordon said that wasn’t the case and coach Rob Chudzinski didn’t feel that Gordon, who also had a drop on Sunday, was disengaged during the game even if he thinks the wideout should have come down with the pass.
“I don’t think it was an effort thing,” Chudzinski said, via the Cleveland Plain Dealer. “Josh wants to be an elite receiver in this league and those are the types of plays that you have to find a way to make. He went up for it and he tried to body catch it mores than high-pointing it, so there’s some technique things that we can work with him on. I’ve seen him make some great catches before and he’s going to make more from here on out.”
For now, the Browns are reportedly balking at the offers made by other teams for Gordon. That could change at any moment, which means the next great catch Gordon makes could come in a different uniform while the Browns continue to turn their attention toward the future.
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j/c
If we trade Gordon, it's going to be the Redskins for Cousins and a 2nd rounder.
But that's their backup QB. AND RG3 isn't really known for playing every game.
Wasn't Gordon one of RG3's WR in college?
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i wouldn't mind cousins at all.. i think he's got more upside than anyone currently on the roster
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Cousins and a pick would be very tempting.
But I think I've pretty much talked myself into getting on the 'Keep Gordon' bandwagon.
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I would trade him now. I don't care who your QB is, as a receiver, you need to be professional and work hard in every game. His body language and effort in GB was horrible.
That means we should get rid of the whole offense.
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Griffin was a terrific prospect and I would still love to have him. However, he ran the ball way more than Bridgewater. In college he left everybody in the dust when he took off and it was a part of his game. And it should have been. It was a great strength.
In the NFL it has been proven you pay the price when you run. Wilson in Seattle is a little different. He does not take big hits. He knows how to duck and slide.
Bridgewater has an NFL game. He is very polished quarterback and I believe he will be very good in the NFL. The Browns would be very fortunate if they could get him somehow some way.
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j/c
So there are two main themes IMO surrounding the reason why we'd trade Gordon.
1. Risk of him violating NFL policies and missing a year.
2. Accruing more picks to have the necessary assets to move up for a QB.
With that said, I don't trade him. First off, the talent is there. We know it. The Browns FO knows it. And obviously the teams willing to depart with picks know it and think the juice is worth the squeeze. There is nothing that guarantees we will find a WR as talented as Gordon with any of our picks- first, second, third, etc. If he gets in trouble, again, fine. So be it. We'll swallow that pill if it gets to that point but I think Gordon has the makings to be a top WR. If the FO chooses to keep him and he ends up getting in trouble, I won't blame them for the non-trade and what could have been. They rolled the dice on proven talent over something (draft picks) that are complete unknowns at this point.
Secondly, does anyone really see a franchise QB in this draft worth selling the farm for? I don't see that yet. We have two first rounders in '14, a second in '14 and '15, a first in 2015, and multiple third rounders in '14.... If we target someone who we want, coupled with where the Browns currently stand in draft position, we should be able to get what we want w/o needing to add more picks.
I say keep Gordon, the proven WR talent, and take the gamble.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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You make it sound as though Gordon is a #1. He isn't.
You're insane.
If you ask me, JG has #1 potential, but it's hard to deny that his hands could be a LOT better.
His route running is damn good though. I just wish our idiot QB would let him go and up get it a little more. I'm not saying throw up a bunch of jump balls, but if you see Gordon deep and he's covered, let him out-physical the DB and grab the ball. That's what he's there for.
As far as if he is or isn't a #1, it all depends on how you value it. If you assume every team has a #1, or close to, then Josh is in the top 32 WR's in the league, easily.
If you see it more as something to be accomplished, and not nearly every team has one, then I don't think he's quite there.
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Look at Chicago, if they didn't have Josh McCown, they'd be guaranteed to lose 4 more in a row (I suppose that's still possible for them, but Josh looked quite decent in that Skins game).
They're losing 3/4 at the very least. They aren't beating Green Bay, Detroit, or Baltimore with a McCown brother.
They are no longer that team that can get by scoring a touchdown on offense plus 14 from defense and special teams. I think those days are pretty much over.
EXACTLY. I've been saying for a long time, the Bears are a .500 team when their defense/ST don't score a TD. At least that's how the L.Smith era played out. I think Trestman's gameplan is going to be better in the long run, but Cutler is so up and down and that defense is crazy injured.
Cutler is only supposed to be out 4 weeks, with their bye coming up this week, he should only miss three games. So I was wrong saying he's be out the next 4 games. I'm still not sold on the Lions and the Ravens look lost. The Bears will beat at least one of them and the other is a pickem. They'll get BLOWN UP by the Packers on Monday night. That's going to be bad, so bad.
And then they have the lifeless Rams, they could end up going 2-2 in November. That's not bad. It's not good, but it ain't bad.
I was telling my gf yesterday, who's below being marginally a football fan, that it's hilarious how Ohio State can fall into wins and the Browns are the complete opposite.
The Bears are the same way as Ohio State. They fall into so many wins. They always catch the breaks. They get the big turnover and take it in for the score. They get the home playoff games against the dome teams. They're able gain a franchise QB and a #1 WR with a few first round picks and a 3rd round pick.
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You make it sound as though Gordon is a #1. He isn't.
You're insane.
When toad doesn't like somebody he will ride that hate train to the finish line. However he's careful choosing his words so it doesn't come back to bite him.
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You make it sound as though Gordon is a #1. He isn't.
#1 WR isn't a status, it's a position.
Greg Little was a #1 for us for two games this year when Gordon was out.
If you're talking about being elite...no, he's not elite, but he has the tools to be. Whether that happens or not is a question of brains.
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People who keep saying he's not 'elite' ... You guys do realize he's only 22 years old right?
Sure, he's not Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, Dez Bryant, Julio Jones ... But he's also 2 years younger than Jones, 3 years younger than Dez and Green, 6 years younger than Calvin.
Also, he has by far the worst QB play of any of those guys.
I understand the questions about his character, but on the field, the guy is a true, legit #1 and will be for years to come (if he stays on the field)
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If we could turn back the clock to the beginning of 2008, almost everyone here would be calling Braylon Edwards 'elite'.
Being elite comes with having a proven track record.
Gordon has elite tools. He is not yet elite.
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That's fair enough, but why would we trade a guy with elite tools just because he's not elite 'yet' at 22 years old?
A Gordon trade makes no sense to me.
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Gordon has #1 talent.
Therefore, he is a #1 WR.
I'm not even sure why that is a debate. You either know what you're looking at or you don't.
I agree, though, that to be worthy of the adjective "elite", there is an implication that they've been doing it a long time. Gordon needs a track record to be deserving of that descriptor.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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That's fair enough, but why would we trade a guy with elite tools just because he's not elite 'yet' at 22 years old?
A Gordon trade makes no sense to me.
Me, either.
I don't see many scenarios where I'm happy with a Gordon trade.
Dealing with headcases is a part of the business. Most winning teams have one or two.
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I have a question maybe you guys can answer. I'm not sure how the "last strike" policy works.
Is Gordon on his last strike from now until he finishes his career? Or does he have x amount of years and then goes back to normal?
I understand how dumb that sounds, because it sounds like eventually it'd be ok to get caught positive in the future, but I wondered, only because of how powerful their union is.
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A failed drug test will be a year ban for the rest of his career.
It takes a lot to get to that point. The NFL's program is extremely lenient.
One could conceivably fail a drug test once a year for their entire career and never face any punishment whatsoever.
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Based on other things I've read, Gordon is actually in stage 3 of the testing program ... which is very bad news obviously. Thus, he will never have the opportunity to reduce or drop down to stage 2/1
From above.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Crazy. Are they factoring in his positive tests from college, because with the Browns it was just this recent positive result, right?
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Crazy. Are they factoring in his positive tests from college, because with the Browns it was just this recent positive result, right?
No.
He's failed two drug tests since becoming a Brown.
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Crazy. Are they factoring in his positive tests from college, because with the Browns it was just this recent positive result, right?
How does that knowledge effect your opinion on a possible trade? 
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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j/c
So there are two main themes IMO surrounding the reason why we'd trade Gordon.
1. Risk of him violating NFL policies and missing a year.
2. Accruing more picks to have the necessary assets to move up for a QB.
Listening to Bernie yesterday on Rizzo, Bernie said Gordon was not giving full effort on the field and that is something you can't coach. You can't coach a guy that doesn't try or give effort. TIFWIW. I also think Bernie is an adviser to the Browns, right?
Also, somebody this morning said he is like the WR Rogers who was on Detroit a while back. Million dollar skills and talent but a 10 cent brain.
Last edited by Buckeyed11; 10/22/13 05:20 PM.
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Keep Gordon!!!!
At 22, he might already be the best WR the Browns have ever had since "The Return."
He will be the best by the time his rookie contract is up, I just hope they can keep him.
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Let's back up a second.
If you want quibble about number one maybe first it would best to define it.
#1 receiver on the roster? Or is a #1 a receiver who commands double coverage, is feared and is game planned against.
I would go with the later.
Gordon is 22 years old. At this point he is not a #1. He is still learning.
The question regarding a trade is will he reach his full potential? Can he become a true #1? Is he willing to put in the work necessary? The organization has to decide that. And then if they decide that it is up to them to make sure he reaches that goal.
If they don't believe he will put in the work and stay clean then they should maximize his value in a trade bid war and take the best deal which should be at least a mid to high first rounder.
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Let's change this up a bit. What would you give up for Justin Blackmon? They are comparable situations in my opinion. Would you give up a top 10 for him right now?
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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Just clicking
All this talk about if Gordon is a #1 or not is rather meaning less. He IS OUR #1. Until we get someone better, he's the man here.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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j/c
I'm so torn on this.
All I do know is that our offense will be UGLY without Gordon and with Weeden ... I'm talking about as ugly as its been since 99.
If we trade Gordon and get fair compensation that is fine ... but I'll have a very very hard time watching us the rest of the year.
And we better be sure we can acquire a legit #1 WR somehow as well.
There are a ton of variables if we decide to trade him.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I would trade him now. I don't care who your QB is, as a receiver, you need to be professional and work hard in every game. His body language and effort in GB was horrible.
That means we should get rid of the whole offense.
Maybe not the whole offense, but I bet that most of it is changed by this time next year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Just clicking
All this talk about if Gordon is a #1 or not is rather meaning less. He IS OUR #1. Until we get someone better, he's the man here.
Teams cannot ever look at it like that though.
Just because a player is the best player you have at a certain position doesn't necessarily make him a cornerstone of your team.
"OUR" #1 player might be a 2, or worse, on almost anyone else's team. Our #3 player might be a #1 on someone else player. Players have whatever worth 2 teams decide to agree on. As far as Gordon, the potential is there for him to be an elite player. The potential is also there for him to be suspended for a year, or to work his way out of the league in short order. None of us see him on a daily basis, how he works and prepared, and how committed he seems to be as far as staying out of trouble every single day.
I would cut the team serious slack if they do move him, because they know the situation with him better than any of us do ..... and teams don't trade away potentially elite talent for no good reason.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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To me, it is easier to replace a receiver then it is to get a QB.
Yet, in all the years since our return we've been unable get either.
As of now, Gordon has more #1 type skills than any WR we've had since our return. It often takes a few years for it all to come together for a WR. Yeah, some get after it pretty quick but most of those guys are playing on a team with a legit franchise QB from their beginning.
The only issue I have with Gordon is his past drug tests. If he's really on the right track, and no one can know for sure, I stick with him. Hopefully someone has gotten through to him and he's turned over a new leaf. If not, then we'll lose him. But I sure wouldn't trade him away for an unknown future pick because of worrying about Gordon's unknown future.
#gmstrong
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If I knew the out come was good, I'd stick with him too.
But, I don't, and the history with dependance issues usually says they revert.
The odds aren't in his favor he stays clean.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Just curious, what is a "high pick"? If it's a 1st or 2nd rounder then we probably should take it given Gordon's suspension track record. I'm guessing the player in the discussion is a low-level type of guy who won't be any type of game changer so that isn't even a part of the equation.
Also, I can see the possibility of Banner/Lombardi leaking the information about three teams offering a "high" pick just to get some team to step up and actually offer a "high" pick.
Maybe someone who is more aware of the 2014 draft can tell me this, who is any good besides Marquise Lee? It seems like we might be able to take a QB without trading up, will Lee be there with the Colts pick? If we got a 2nd rounder for Gordon could we come out with the QB of our choice and Lee by way of trading up?
Also to consider, Hakeem Nicks and Jeremy Maclin will be free agents this off-season. Nicks is talented but injury prone. Maclin tore his ACL before this current season started so he should be ready to go for training camp of 2014.
Mariota/Bridgewater/Manziel/Boyd/Hundley (please no)/Mettenberger/whoever the QB we take is + WR in the draft + Maclin or Nicks would be a pretty good off-season haul.
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Joined: Mar 2013
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j/c: Man, you guys just love wild speculation threads. One guy reports something, another runs wild w/speculation, and then you take it to even more bizarre extremes. Facts? Logic? Reason? Nah.......let's just argue over something that is based on rumors and innuendo. Brilliant. One guy says we shouldn't accept anything less than half a draft class for Gordon.  Others say he is elite.  What has he really done in the his career to warrant such praise? How many catches and yards did he have in his last game? How about our first two games of the year? How many years has he consistently put up big numbers? Elite? Half a draft class? Please.  Let's see what others [non homers] think, shall we? http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000210224/article/ranking-the-nfls-top-40-wide-receiversGordon is ranked 38th here. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000...ceiver-rankings 3rd tier of receivers here, looks to be number 22. http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp13/st...-wide-receiversNot in the top 10 here, but yeah, you know more than Chris Carter about playing WR in the NFL. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/19/top-ten-nfl-wide-receivers_n_3949231.htmlNot in the top 10 here. Here are some facts. The guy has an outstanding yards per catch average. He is tall. He is fast. He displays good hands at times. He drops passes. His effort has been inconsistent. He missed two games at the beginning of the year and disappeared in our last game. He has been busted for drugs 5 times in a few years. He is facing a one year suspension. His body of work is minimal. He has potential Now, it is my turn to speculate. He has potential to either become elite or a dud. My guess is that he lands somewhere in between. While he has the talent to be elite, I don't think he has the head and the heart to realize that potential. My opinion could change if he somehow landed in New England. Belichick has a history of turning head cases like Gordon into productive players....at least for awhile. See Randy Moss and Corey Dillon as just a couple of examples.
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 433
1st String
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1st String
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 433 |
I really wonder,how many teams would want him,being that he has a bad reputation.He is a real talent (no arguing that),but the teams really don't like any drug stuff on the resume.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Josh Gordon Trade unlikely
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