DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cavs (and NBA) Preseason Thread

Well .... at least there is this ...... and it is really interesting ......

There are probably several teams who would love to lop $12 million off of their cap in order to avoid paying a luxury tax .......

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2013/12/post_70.html#incart_river_default

Finally, there is the contract.

If Bynum is cut by Jan. 7, he is paid only $6 million. If he is on the roster after that, another $6 million comes his way.

So why would any team want to trade for him?

In the world of NBA salary caps, Bynum's contract counts $12 million.

A team could trade for Bynum, cut him before Jan. 7 -- and take $12 million off their cap.

That may be attractive to a team wanting to deal with financial issues such as the salary. And perhaps the Cavs can actually turn Bynum into something -- a pick, a player, who knows?

key word "was".

He isn't healthy. He still has something to offer, but he is no longer a superstar.

It was a terrible signing, in my opinion. You go talk to most Lakers fans, and they will tell you Bynum is a headcase. Why do you think Philly washed their hands with him, considering what they gave up? You had in all of his injuries, and it was a pipe dream to think you were going to get anything resembling the 2012 Bynum. Grant and Gilbert are the laughingstock of the nba. 4 years of terrible basketball with no end in sight.

Has anyone given any thought that the Cavs are making this move because they know they are going to suck w/or w/out him and want to save the money that he would have been paid this year?

They were in a bind with the pick. You look at the 3 best players so far in Oladipo, Carter-Williams, and Burke, those guys probably didn't fit. 2 point guards, and a combo guard. In hindsight, they probably should've traded Waiters before the draft, for a 3, and took Oladipo, or McLemore. Otto Porter has been terrible so far, so there was no clear choice. It just happens that Bennett has no game whatsoever, except for an occasional 3.

Who do you think they take, if they had another shot?

I think that he realizes that this team needs to be able to open up the middle, so he looked for a stretch 4, who can play away from the basket. If he is able to start knocking down some outside shots, then the lanes pen up for Irving and/or Waiters do drive the basket for easy shots.

I see why he made the choice he did ..... but, unfortunately, it hasn't worked. It's also why we signed Clark. That move is also still in the "iffy" category at best.

I am glad that we did not move Waiters. Even if he and Irving cannot play together effectively, Waiters can still be a super 6th man, and a 20 PPG guy. I do think that he demonstrates one issue with this team, in that we have talent, but those players often have skills that conflict with one another. Last year Varejao and Thompson clashed under the hoop, because they are the same type of player. They don't get a lot of plays run for them, so they need to grab rebounds and put the ball back. When we have Varejao and Thompson playing with Irving and Waiters, then we have the middle packed, and 2 players whose strength is driving. Not a good mix.

I like the Jack signing, because he can play either Guard spot, and can work with either Irving or Waiters. That gives us a very good Guard rotation. They can also all play together in a 3 Guard set. I think that Miles and Dellevadado are decent deep rotation guys. We have tons of options there.

I like that Zeller will have the chance to see some more time. He should be a decent backup to Varejao at Center. I would have preferred Bynum to work out, but we could be in a lot worse shape. I do think that Varejao can be a 15/15 guy, and Zeller has the potential to be a solid backup.

I do think that we will run the pick and roll more effectively without Bynum. He was really not moving well, and seemed disinterested in setting picks. I do worry that so many people have said that he seems disinterested in actually playing basketball. It seems so weird to hear when you consider how hard he worked to come back. I'll never understand.

Man, overall this team has some decent talent. I think that Irving, Waiters, Jack,, Varejao, and Thompson are all solid or above talents.However, only Irving really has superstar potential. That really was the exciting thing about Bynum. He was a potential 2nd superstar. Unfortunately, it didn't work. At least his deal isn't going to leave the team hamstrung for years to come. Maybe we'll even be able to get something out of him. Who knows? Anyway, he was worth the risk.

Man, we really need a 3 desperately ...... and there is a free agent who will be available who would fit nicely with Irving. Unfortunately, I just don't see him returning to Cleveland.

I just don't know. It seems like all of the Cleveland teams take a step forward, and then something blows up in our faces. Bess on the Browns, Bynum on the Cavaliers, the Indians had traded for Ubaldo, and he was a disappointment until this past 2nd half of the season. Sigh. One day it will all come together. I have to believe that. I just hope that it's sometime in my lifetime.

Bynum was probably after one last paycheck. Remember philly let him walk for nothing. Teams dont let superstars go for nothing. he had no other offers besides the cavs. I think you were expecting too much out of him. Bad knees never heal in basketball.

I think that the problem is not his knees. I think that his knees are god enough to play 20 minutes/night, with back to backs off.

I think that the problem is in his chest, and above his neck.

Hmm ..... I don't know what to think about this ...... It makes sense in a way, but Gasol is hardly any kind of long term solution for this team. He wouldn't cost the team anything beyond this season, but I would think that we would have to get a draft pick as well as Gasol fr giving the Lakers so much cap relief.

Report: Lakers, Cavaliers have discussed trading Pau Gasol for Andrew Bynum | The Point Forward - SI.com
http://nba.si.com/2013/12/31/pau-gasol-a...iers/?eref=sihp

With yet another season undermined by rampant injury, the Lakers have reportedly discussed a deal that would send Pau Gasol to Cleveland in exchange for Andrew Bynum, according to ESPN.com.


The motivation for the deal is simple: With L.A. trailing the pack of Western Conference playoff contenders, dealing Gasol for Bynum — whose salary is only partially guaranteed — would bring massive savings in salary and luxury tax payments. It’s hard to quantify the Lakers’ potential savings more exactly given that other pieces would have to be involved to make the swap legal by NBA rules, but with the move L.A. would likely be able to slide under the luxury tax line for the first time since 2007.

That in itself is a significant development, as ducking out of luxury tax territory for even a single season could help the Lakers to steer clear of the fearsome repeater tax penalties that kick in next season. In 2014-15, teams that had paid the tax in each of the three previous seasons will be hit with an even harsher penalty than before. The same applies in 2015-16 for teams that paid the tax in three of the past four seasons. Trading Gasol would thus not only save the Lakers millions of dollars now, but potentially many more down the line by way of avoiding the tax this year.

Who are we going to give up to make up the other $5-7 million to make the deal work? Why do we want a 4-month rental on a player who is old, injured, won't re-sign here, and plays a position where we already have two players? The earliest we could get a 1st round pick from LA is 2019.

yeah this move is basically him trying to cya. I mean yeah, i'd take gasol over varejao or thompson...he's a true 7 footer, and i think he'd be motivated here, he really hates D'antoni. He could easily be a double double guy here with as many touches as he should get. But it comes down to who else we throw in to make it work. I'd give them Gee, but thats about it. I wouldn't give them draft picks unless they were protected. Lakers need this trade more than we do.

I could see us offering the same deal to chicago for Deng, give them the same savings and we fill a position of need and I think we can resign deng

You mean John Paxson?

I agree ... all of these moves seem to be a short-sighted, last gasp thing to try and get into the playoffs and hope to land Lebron next year.

And I'm not too high on Grant right now either. Sure, he sort of saber-metric'ed his way into picking TT over a few others, which has sort of worked out ... but he really screwed things up with taking Dion and Bennett over some other choice people we could of used. Could you imagine this team with Drummond & Oladipo/MCW?

The franchise is a train wreck at the moment. I believe the only reason they want to get into the playoffs, is to end the culture of losing. I don't think they want to get young guys like Kyrie, Dion, and TT use to losing. That happens to a lot of organizations who pick every year in the lottery. The Sacramento Kings are a good example. I'm sure they are very concerned about losing Kyrie to free agency.

If only they pulled the trigger on the James Harden deal. I think they could've had him for Dion, or TT, and a draft pick. At the time they were scared of not having enough money to resign Kyrie, as Harden would've signed for a max deal.

If they make the playoffs and are a first round exit, I'm OK with that, because it's about what I'd expect. These young guys need a taste of the next level of NBA..

If they could get into a series with the Heat and through 4, maybe even 5 or 6 games, they could kinda see where they need to be, and what they need to do. I believe young teams can grow through a series like that. You can only grow so much, because it's still about bottom line talent, but it would be healthy for them to get their feet wet.

I still feel confident that they will hit their stride and somehow get a 7 or 8 seed.

Being ok with them losing in the first round isn't accepting losing/mediocrity, it's just seeing where this team is at. I don't expect an Eastern Conference final. They need to stay on track and stop making excuses.

Blowing games in the final minute isn't an excuse. That's not OK.

Think this is a great move by the cavs. Deng fits what they are trying to do. Need to get him signed.

The Cleveland Cavaliers have agreed to trade Andrew Bynum and a draft pick to the Chicago Bulls for forward Luol Deng, sources told ESPN.com.

The deal is expected to be completed on Tuesday morning when the teams have a conference call with the league office.

Bynum is expected to be released by 5 p.m. on Tuesday before the second half of his $12.3 million contract becomes guaranteed.

The deal will save the Bulls more than $15 million in salary and luxury taxes, taking them below the salary-cap threshold. In addition, the Cavs will send the Bulls a first-round pick owed to them by the Sacramento Kings that is top-10 protected in the next two drafts.

The Cavs had discussions for more than a week with the Los Angeles Lakers involving a deal for Pau Gasol but could not come to an agreement. The Cavs also had talks about trading Bynum's contract to the Utah Jazz for Richard Jefferson.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/102556...bulls-luol-deng

Basically Deng for the Kings pick and two 2nd rounders. We were gonna cut Bynum if we didn't trade him.

Not very much given up. However, throwing away assets to make a push into a 7 or 8 seed is never a good move, especially when the player you get in return could possibly leave at the end of the season. Just ask Milwaukee.

idk how I feel about it...


Deng is talented and a veteran leader...and plays the 3 well...He fits 3 needs that the team really has. We dont have a good veteran leader, dont have a talented 3...and he plays tough D which is something that Mike Brown values.
Deng and Varejao make a really solid defensive pairing...

That being said...Deng is inconsistent and oft injured. I think the 1st is a product of the 2nd though...

If he can stay healthy...He will be a terrific asset. Thats a big question mark though. For Picks and a guy who didnt want to be here...

I wonder how he fits into Chicago though...Does Noah move to the 4?

nevermind...


Theyre waiving Bynum. what a waste he is.

With as bad as the Kings are, that pick may never come to be anything. Maybe a 2nd rounder ..... but with the endless protections .... and as bad as the Kings are ...... who knows?

The 2 second round picks from Portland ....... well, considering that portland is currently 3rd in the West ....... they won't be a whole lot.

The principles are cap space for the Bulls, and Deng for the Cavaliers. The draft picks will probably be a minimal concern. The Bulls will also have the right to swap 1st rounders with the Cavaliers in 2015. (protected 1-14)

I think that Deng will be exactly what this young team needs ..... a leader, and a guy who is a scorer from the wing. Man, he has scored 19 PPG, with almost 7 RPG this season. He is also an excellent defender. Sure he gets dinged up, and misses some games ..... but he instantly becomes the best SF this team has had since You Know Who. He's also only 28. Weird, I thought that he was older than that.

It will be interesting to see how he fits in. I find it really funny that CBS graded this trade higher for the Bulls than for the Cavaliers. The Bulls may wind up only with 3 second round picks (likely) and cap space, while the Cavaliers fill their biggest and deepest hole. (Of course, they gave us a B+ and the Bulls an A, so it was really seen as a win-win for the 2 teams)

I have to admit, this whole Bynum situation went from me feeling guardedly happy ... to happy ..... to flat out worried ...... to now happy. I cannot imagine the Cavaliers making much better a trade than this one.

How much do you figure Matthew Dellavadova will get to give up his #9 to Deng?

I think it's a great trade if they could get Deng to resign. We have enough young players on this team. Like you said, we need a veteran, and someone to steer these guys in the right direction. Coming from the bulls, he will fit right in what Brown is trying to get done.

It's not like the couple 2nd rounders would've made this team anyhow. Even on the free agent market, Deng would've been our target. Now we get him for over half the season, in an effort to get a long term deal done.

Best case scenario for the Bynum deal. At worst, Deng provides the veteran leadership that this team desperately needs. We have to develop an identity and a culture and Deng is a great guy to help forge them. At best, we sign Deng long-term and he becomes our premier wing defender allowing Kyrie to do what he does on offense more. Also, Mike Brown likely fell asleep in a puddle of joyful tears last night.

with the east being weak, do we still have a shot at the playoffs this year?

I think right now we are currently the 5th worst team in the NBA but only 3 games out of the 8th playoff seed. Weak is an understatement.

Like the move. We didn't give up much, we got rid of a guy who's not working out and we were going to release anyway.

On top of that, we have no strings tied to Deng after this year unless the Cavs and Deng want to work them out.

He actually should fit right in with Irving and Waiters. Doesn't require the ball to do his job, plays really good defense. There's not much to dislike about this move. If you hate it, it's only for a few months. If you love it, you could see more of him in the future (maybe).

I'm only worried about this season though, and if you view it like that, you love it.

and, we just traded a guy who has intimated that he doesn't like basketball, is hard to get on the court, and obviously has a bunch of off the court issues the team has to deal with.

in return, we get Deng who is about the most professional player in the league, keeps in ridiculous shape (39min/game average over last 4 seasons), and will immediately fit into the defensive system in place and become a team leader (he's not a loud voice - he does his job tirelessly and expects others to follow).

Well I called this trade a few weeks ago..yay me!..lol, This was the trade I was hoping we'd make..Deng is alot more consistent than gasol and doesn't get injured and fills a position of HUGE need. This is going to help our guards tremendously. I really do want to resign him though. I look at it this way, if you can't get lebron, Theres not much else out there better than deng from an all around perspective. Availability is another key. We have the cap and we already have him, so if he wants to stay..then you work it out. Good deal all around I think. Deng is the kind of player that will get his points in any system and doesn't need the ball to do it. That's good for us with ball hogs like irving/waiters

One other thought I had ....... even though I am convinced that a certain future free agant SF is not coming back to Cleveland ....... having Deng here for part of this year will show how the team plays with a real quality SF. Maybe that convincse you know who to take another look at Cleveland ........

Probably not ...... but who knows?

On the other hand, maybe Deng finds that he likes playing with the young team we have, and decides to stay.

I just think that we can start to look a whole lot better to potential free agent targets if we show major improvement with Deng.

Heck, I wouldn't mind signing him to a new deal. He does get dinged, but he is only 28 (IIRC) and he is a solid all around player. IIRC, we will have room to sign him (or another near max deal) plus one additional max deal.

I do think that this team must show improvement in order to be attractive to anyone (worthwhile) as a free agent. Further, I do think that we must make the playoffs. We have got to become as attractive as possible, and I would think that a playoff team loaded with young talent and extra draft picks would be attractive to a lot of players. Probably some players are headed to big markets no matter what ..... but who knows? Further, we may even be able to make another significant trade next year.

I kind of go back and forth on Grant. He drafted Bennett, who has been a disaster thus far, but then pulls off a deal like this with assets he gained through astute trades earlier. He walked into a horrible situation, and has done a solid job. My biggest complaint would be that he has talented players who don't necessarily fit well together.However, he has quality players throughout the roster, even if we don't have superstars everywhere.

I look at the potential lineups, and I see something like this:

Starters:
PG: Irving
SG: Miles
C: Varejao
PF: Thompson
SF: Deng

That's a solid starting 5.

Then the 2nd team would be:
PG: Jack
SG: Waiters
C: Zeller
PF: Bennett
SF: Gee

Yeah, we are weak with Bennett in the game, but hopefully he'll develop. (hoping really hard) We can also slide Clark to PF if we need to, or to SF. I like Gee as a defensive stopper on the 2nd rotation.

I believe that we just sent Karasez down to Canton, and Felix was down earlier. I would like to see both guys get significant time at Canton when possible. Heck, I really wouldn't be opposed to sending Bennett down to play a week or 2 for 30 minutes/game. I just looked, and the D League is 1st and 2nd year players (almost) only, and I don't see a limit on the number of players a team can send down at once. Who knows, maybe guys like Kaasev and Bennett can grow together. (Maybe Sims too) I see little value in a guy like Bennett sitting on the bench in Cleveland doing nothing, when he could be playing solid minutes at Canton.

Who knows?