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McManamon on the Browns Audibles aplenty as QB position remains up in air It could be Frye, Anderson, Green, Russell or Quinn By Patrick McManamon Trent Green seems an unlikely addition to the Browns' quarterback position, which continues to be vexing. The Browns have inquired about Green, but many factors stack against them. Two league insiders said last week that Green's most likely destination is Miami, and the Browns' chances are slim at best. Nothing seems to even be happening. ``There is nothing to report about Cleveland,'' Green's agent, Jim Steiner, said in an e-mail to the South Florida Sun-Sentinel. The reason the Browns' odds seem slim? Most in the league believe Green wants to play for the Miami Dolphins. Quarterback coach Terry Shea is his best friend, and head coach Cam Cameron was Green's quarterback coach with the Washington Redskins when Green broke into the league. The Dolphins originally offered the Kansas City Chiefs a seventh-round choice for Green. The Chiefs' Carl Peterson countered that he wanted a second-round pick. And it was Peterson who went public with the Browns' interest in Green -- an obvious attempt to stir up interest league-wide, or to put pressure on the Dolphins to offer more. That leaves the Browns with the two players who team officials insist they'd be satisfied to have as they head into the 2007 season: Charlie Frye and Derek Anderson. Frye comes off a season in which he completed almost 65 percent of his throws, but threw 17 interceptions compared with 10 touchdowns. The Browns have a ``yeah, but'' attitude about Frye's season, though. ``There were a lot of things that ended up in Charlie's lap that could have gone a different way,'' General Manager Phil Savage said at the league's annual meetings. ``I think it's a little bit unfair to judge him off of what happened last year.'' The team insists it has lost no faith in Frye, but it would like to see him improve. ``Backing off of trying to make a play every play,'' Savage said. ``I think he pressed himself last year with trying to make a play every snap because of the way things were going. ``At that position, you have to be extremely patient and let the game come to you a little bit.'' That's a lesson many young quarterbacks have to learn. Early in his career, Brett Favre was given standing ovations in Green Bay when he threw the ball away. But Favre started his career in 1991, and in those days players were given time. In the modern-day NFL, patience is not given to quarterbacks. Frye ended the season talking about the Browns as ``his team'' -- it's the reason he took painkilling shots in his right wrist so he could play in the finale -- and he will not concede the starting spot to anyone. Anderson's stock still seems to have shot up. ``When (Charlie) got hurt, Derek went in there and played pretty well for three games where people said, `Wait a minute, this guy deserves a shot to see what he can do,' '' Savage said. ``I think last August, there seemed to be a pretty large gap between those two players. ``But I would say that that gap has been narrowed.'' In his four late-season games, Anderson completed 56 percent of his throws, with five touchdowns and eight interceptions -- four in his last gam, against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. But the Browns think two of the interceptions in that game were not his fault: One went off a receiver's hands, another occurred when he was hit as the team feels he was about to make a big play. Anderson looked good initially, as he got rid of the ball quickly and stood in the pocket a little stronger and longer than Frye. But the more he played, the more his performance seemed to level off. ``That happens with young guys,'' Browns coach Romeo Crennel said. Then there are the draftees: JaMarcus Russell and Brady Quinn. Quinn's stock seems to be rising, and he could go second -- either to the Detroit Lions or a team that trades with them. Russell still is believed to be headed to the Oakland Raiders, a view that gained more legs when David Carr signed with the Carolina Panthers on Friday. The Raiders might trade for Josh McCown, but McCown and Andrew Walter might not even be as good as what the Browns have. There's some talk that the Raiders might go with can't-miss wide receiver Calvin Johnson, but as one league insider said of the Raiders: ``Nobody ever knows what that team will do.'' The Raiders could wind up with Daunte Culpepper throwing to Randy Moss just as easily as they could wind up with Russell. ``You don't know what's going to happen at No. 3,'' Savage said. ``Who's to say the quarterbacks don't go one-two? You don't know. Regardless of who the player is, they're going to be a nice fit for us one way or the other. ``There's been a lot of speculation. Are we moving down, are we moving up? What are we doing? At the end of the day, if we don't do anything, we're going to get a good player.'' Green, Part II The Browns' interest in Green isn't surprising, but it was surprising the way it happened. On Monday at the NFL Meetings, Savage said the Browns had discussed veteran quarterbacks but decided against going after one. He even gave specific reasons: Green wanted to be only a starter, his arm strength was not adequate, and his lack of mobility was a problem. ``I think there's too many factors to try to integrate that into where we are,'' Savage said then. Two days later, Savage approached Peterson about Green. What changed? Savage learned the Dolphins deal was not done, and he started thinking that perhaps he could get Green for a second-day draft pick. Green can easily end the talk by telling the Browns he will not accept a restructured contract. (He's due salaries of $7.2 million, $7.7 million and $9.2 million in the next three years.) No new contract, no trade. Brownies . . . • Word is that Frye and Anderson are both throwing and doing well. Frye ended the season with the bad wrist, Anderson with a separated right shoulder. • Frye played the last game of the season with a painful wrist injury because he felt he owed it to Crennel, and he thought a win would help save Crennel's job. It now seems that playing in that game didn't help his standing all that much. ``I would say it was 50-50 either way,'' Savage said. ``He had the fumble that got returned for a touchdown. Other than that, he completed a high percentage of throws. He did OK.'' • Savage did try to bring in quarterback help last year on draft day when he tried to acquire Joey Harrington from the Lions. Harrington, though, called Crennel and told him he did not want to play in Cleveland. Patrick McManamon can be reached at pmcmanamon@thebeaconjournal.com.http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/sports/football/nfl/cleveland_browns/17046917.htm
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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And it was Peterson who went public with the Browns' interest in Green -- an obvious attempt to stir up interest league-wide, or to put pressure on the Dolphins to offer more.
That leaves the Browns with the two players who team officials insist they'd be satisfied to have as they head into the 2007 season: Charlie Frye and Derek Anderson.
Savage and the FO seem to be going out of their way to make noise about wanting a QB.
1) Savage talks to KC about Green. Everyone knows Carl P is a cowboy and that the word would get out
2) Savage makes comments "gushing" about how great Russell is
3) Word "leaks" out of Berea that Lerner has ordered Savage to pick a QB
Kind of reminds me of last year when the only player Savage gushed about was Ngata and then when he's sitting there waiting for us - we pass on him.
The more I see the more I believe that Savage wants to draft A Peterson in the first round. JMO
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I'm getting the impression that Savage was just asking a question of Carl Peterson,,, and Peterson let it out to the press...Thus all talk.
I betting it went like this:
Phil: Carl,, so, is Green going to Miami,,, is that etched in stone now?
Carl; Heck no, that's not a done deal,,,why, you interested?
Phil: Well, I could be? Should I even bother at this point?
Carl: Sure, make me and Trent an offer, we'll give it due consideration.
Phil: Great, I'll let you know, Thanks Carl..
Then to spike interest from Miami, Carl Peterson goes to the press and says:
"Miami better get off the dime, I'm getting requests for Green already,,, had one this morning from Phil Savage of the Browns,,,, Miami,,you better move quickly!
Thus the whole story is born!..
Read into it what you will!
NOTE: The text of the converstion between Phil Savage and Carl Peterson is a figment of my imagination.. It is not the actual text of any conversation between the two gentleman,,, it is my impression of how it may have gone..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The reason the Browns' odds seem slim? Most in the league believe Green wants to play for the Miami Dolphins. Quarterback coach Terry Shea is his best friend, and head coach Cam Cameron was Green's quarterback coach with the Washington Redskins when Green broke into the league.
Or.........Green knows that playing w/Cleveland's offense would be a nightmare.
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The team insists it has lost no faith in Frye, but it would like to see him improve.
``Backing off of trying to make a play every play,'' Savage said. ``I think he pressed himself last year with trying to make a play every snap because of the way things were going.
He had to make too many plays on his own last year. The Brown's offense was putrid. They were so unproductive at most of the positions that it seemed they asked Charlie to make every big play for them. He tried. He failed more often than he succeeded. I just think it was unfair for such an inexperienced qb to have that burden placed on him.
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``At that position, you have to be extremely patient and let the game come to you a little bit.''
Again.........you need to have talent and experience on offense for that to happen. I don't think Phil understands quarterbacks very well and I don't think he understands offense very well either.
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``You don't know what's going to happen at No. 3,'' Savage said. ``Who's to say the quarterbacks don't go one-two? You don't know. Regardless of who the player is, they're going to be a nice fit for us one way or the other.
``There's been a lot of speculation. Are we moving down, are we moving up? What are we doing? At the end of the day, if we don't do anything, we're going to get a good player.''
Yeah.........as in Joe Thomas.
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The Browns' interest in Green isn't surprising, but it was surprising the way it happened.
On Monday at the NFL Meetings, Savage said the Browns had discussed veteran quarterbacks but decided against going after one.
He even gave specific reasons: Green wanted to be only a starter, his arm strength was not adequate, and his lack of mobility was a problem.
I hope the Frye haters are reading this part.
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• Frye played the last game of the season with a painful wrist injury because he felt he owed it to Crennel, and he thought a win would help save Crennel's job.
It now seems that playing in that game didn't help his standing all that much. ``I would say it was 50-50 either way,'' Savage said. ``He had the fumble that got returned for a touchdown. Other than that, he completed a high percentage of throws. He did OK.''
<<sigh>> I just don't see why so many people think Savage is a genius.
It was very obvious that Frye's hand was bothering him quite a bit in that last game. He threw a lot of wounded ducks in that game; more than he threw all year. Unfortunately, those are the throws that most people remember.
I think the kid played for the right reasons. He wanted to prove he was tough. He wanted to prove that he wasn't afraid of competition. He wanted to help his coach. And he wanted to prove he was a team guy. Instead, he is called out for making mistakes, many of which were caused by the injury.
I'm going to say this again. I am not sold on Charlie Frye. My biggest concerns are:
---Accuracy. Despite completing 65% of his passes, I did notice that he struggles w/accuracy. And no.......it's not on the deep throws. His problems come more in the intermediate range, especially outside the hash marks.
---Reading coverages. He appears to get confused by zone coverages. This problem is compounded because teams could stop our run w/4 guys and were able to drop seven into coverage. We should have been able to pound the ball down their throats, but we couldn't run at all.
Both of the above problems can be influenced by his receivers. Because his receivers were running the wrong routes and not running good, clean routes......I could see him throwing to the wrong spot and also start holding the ball longer and longer as the season went on. Because if he throws to a spot and the WR ain't there.....he is picked.
Like I said........I need more time to judge this kid. I really wish that you all would get off his back and let this play out. Believe me........if the majority of people were kissing his ass, I would tell them that it was too early to say Charlie was the answer.
Charlie has some issues, but I believe most of those can be worked out. The other problems that people talk about, such as hand size, arm strength, etc....do not concern me. Hell, I might even make a QB thread.......because of a lot of this [censored] that is believed to be true on here is driving me nuts.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Or.........Green knows that playing w/Cleveland's offense would be a nightmare.
It truly has been a nightmare for every QB we've had here,, I'm hoping that Chud can be the person that stops the nightmare from continuing.. well, let's put it this way, he's in charge,, if it doesn't change, then he will not have done his job.... JMO however
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just don't see why so many people think Savage is a genius.
Who was it that said that you can't really tell about how good your picks are until about 2 or was it 3 years has gone by...then examine how they turned out..
Well, we are on Savages 3rd draft now. so his first draft should be coming of age this season.
This should give us a good indication of how he did on the first go round.
Let's see,, who did he draft that year:
Braylon Edwards
Brodney Pool
Charlie Frye
Antonio Perkins
David McMillian
Nick Speegle
Andrew Hoffman
Jon Dunn
This is gonna be interesting to see how this pans out.
So far, Edwards is starting and not exactly making anyone think of him as the next Jerry Rice. Although he can still improve greatly.. I guess he'll get a chance to do that this year.
Brodney Pool started to really come out last season so I have real hope he will be a star.
Charlie Frye started and at times looked good and at times looked like the rookie that he is.. no need to say more, there's been enough said already.. He's a wait and see.. this is coming from a guy who thinks he deserves another year. Me!
Antonio Perkins is someone I can't make heads or tails out of.. He was well thought of when drafted.. yet, he has not been able to crack the lineup even given our troubles in the secondary... I hold little or no hope for him except to take Northcutts return job,,,, maybe.
David McMillian is someone that got some playing time this past season.. nothing that made me think he was a star, but nothing that made me think of him as a potential stud either... I guess he's a wait and see. I have no feelings either way on him.
Nick Speegle is a guy I was hoping to make an impact.. (this is gonna sound stupid, but I love the name SPEEEGLE, LOL )Played a little the first year, got cut the second and ended up with another team then got cut again and ended up back with us where he finished the season... Don't know what's up with him but I'm thinking he's not gonna be much.
Hoffman and Dunn,,, I hold no hope for either of them at this point!
So there are a couple of guys that could very well be very good players,, this year should tell us that.. Edwards, Pool, Frye, McMillian.
I suppose that if you can get 4 starters out of one draft, that should be considered a good year right?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I hate to break in on your one on one with your self,but I must.
Having CF play in that last game,as well as KW,showed me plenty about the org.not much of it good.Those guys should have been on the shelf,healing.The last meaningless game in a 4-12 season,who really gave a [censored] at that point.The only reason I can see,is to appease the fans,and I hate that.
I stay out of qb debates,I'm too emotional,when they make a bad play they suck,when they make a good play they're great.
My comprehension maynot be the best,but if PS was criticizing Frye for mistakes in the final game,when in my mind he shouldn't have been playing is bizzarre.
Perhaps an admittance of making such a boneheaded move would have been more in order.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Yea, I doubt very much if Phil ran up to Carl and frantically cried "we gotta get this guy".  It was probably as low key a conversation as you suggest.....
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Yeah, thats my best guess.. But for the sake of argument, even if Savage felt that Green was the last piece of the puzzle that would lead the team to the SB . would it be wise to rush up to peterson and say we gotta have him,,,, No it wouldn't have been... That would only serve to raise the price tag..LOL SO, I am betting it went down as I suggested....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Enough with the QB talk allready. Jeez.
The only thing we know for certain is that we cannot trust what Savage says to be the absolute truth, so we can just wait and see what happens.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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The only thing we know for certain is that we cannot trust what Savage says to be the absolute truth, so we can just wait and see what happens
LOL,, as if we could trust any GM at this time of year
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I'm getting the impression that Savage was just asking a question of Carl Peterson,,, and Peterson let it out to the press...Thus all talk.
That's what it looks like to me as well... I'm guessing we asked about him just to see what kind of price it'd take and if it was low then we'd make a push... but I don't think Savage was going to make too much of a push...
but Peterson of COURSE was going to say that we had a huge interest... he wants his 2nd overall pick
<><
#gmstrong
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It now seems that playing in that game didn't help his standing all that much. ``I would say it was 50-50 either way,'' Savage said. ``He had the fumble that got returned for a touchdown. Other than that, he completed a high percentage of throws. He did OK.''
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<<sigh>> I just don't see why so many people think Savage is a genius.
It was very obvious that Frye's hand was bothering him quite a bit in that last game. He threw a lot of wounded ducks in that game; more than he threw all year. Unfortunately, those are the throws that most people remember.
I think the kid played for the right reasons. He wanted to prove he was tough. He wanted to prove that he wasn't afraid of competition. He wanted to help his coach. And he wanted to prove he was a team guy. Instead, he is called out for making mistakes, many of which were caused by the injury.
I think you are reading too much into Savage's quote about Frye in that last game. It is possible that there is another side to that quote that's not published where Savage gushes about his toughness and commends him for playing on those merits. But when asked specifically about his play, he is just giving on honest assessment, which I think - after watching that game - is rather accurate.
I don't think Savage is a genius, but I'm starting to like him more and more. I think his offseason was excellent, and I really feel like he has a good pulse on the team needs. I am actually expecting an excellent draft this year.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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All that went out the window when word came in that we wanted to talk contract parameters with Green.
It's allready been proven that Savage is speaking with forked tongue. He talked down his arm strength and mobility............then called to see if he could be had *L*
The interest is real. The question is how strongly do we want him and how much are we willing to give to get him.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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You are wrong Toad (actually, I have no idea if you are or aren't,,, I'm just in a mood to disagree with you now that you threatened me with having to deliever an Easter Ham to you wearing a pink bunny suit (not the ham,,, me)... I'll get over it and tomorrow we will be back to normal again)
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The interest is real. The question is how strongly do we want him and how much are we willing to give to get him.
Yes, the interest is real....this isn't smoke and mirrors.
My biggest fear a month ago was that we draft Adrian Peterson with Joe on the board. Now I have another fear, and that is that we sign Trent Green and draft Brady Quinn.
I'm going to have to stay away from bridges, guns, and sharp objects on the 28th....I can see that already. *sigh*
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Or.........Green knows that playing w/Cleveland's offense would be a nightmare.
that very well may be true .... well it is TRUE .... no doubt .... I wouldn't want to come to C-town if I were him either ... the fish are a much more advanced team than we are with alot more TALENT on hand ... u can thank your boy botch for that ... but naaa .. your to busy whining about Opie and doing the same thing u complain about others doing ...
dude .. theres no doubt Miami is a much better option for an aging vet with not many years left .. but even if we had the same opportunity where u gonna go// to the team with your BEST FRIEND and a HC who worked with U every day for 2 or 3 years when u broke in or to a place u NO NO ONE??
Hmmmm .. thats a real tough one .. *LOL* ...
but as usual u couldnt pass up a chance to take a shot ... 
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He had to make too many plays on his own last year.
yes he did .. to bad he made most of them for the other team .. a fact u and most conveniantly overlook in your unending defense of boy wonder ... in essence all he did almost every time was throw more dirt on our grave ... but thats OK .. it was everyones fault but his according to u guys and had nothign to do with the defeciant skill set that is required for NFL QB's to suceed ...
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The Brown's offense was putrid.
yes it was ... and no QB in the history of the game could have changed that .. but Frye was a part of the problem ... he threw gas on the fire ... he was part of the problem ...
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They were so unproductive at most of the positions that it seemed they asked Charlie to make every big play for them. He tried. He failed more often than he succeeded.
theres hopr for u yet .... 
only problem here is that QB was one of the positions they were very unproductive at .. and he took it upon himself to try and do more than he was capable of .. thats his fault .. not everyone elses ...
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I just think it was unfair for such an inexperienced qb to have that burden placed on him.
no doubt he was in a bad situation ... that he just made worse ...
but at the end of the day Vers .. this has nothign to do with why he will never be even an avg. starter oin the NFL .. he DEFENCIES just dont overcome his
strenghts ... when u start off a convo about a QB being a great leader and tough and mobile ... your in trouble from the get go .. cause the main skills a QB needs are accuracy and brains ... and if u mention neither of them when talking about your QB ... well its like getting hooked up with a girl that has a great personality ... 
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Again.........you need to have talent and experience on offense for that to happen. I don't think Phil understands quarterbacks very well and I don't think he understands offense very well either.
just another unwarranted shot at Opie ... 
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Yeah.........as in Joe Thomas.
or Brady Quinn ... then you'll see a real QB ... 
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I hope the Frye haters are reading this part
i'm not a Frye hater .. I actually admire the kid .. i'd feel bad for him but he was given a chance albiet not a good one .. but i doubt he would have ever even got a chance like we gave him anywhere else in the NFL ..
with that said ... just wondering what the Frye haters are suppose to learn from that ...
and by the way .. you are a true teacher and more than likely a good one ... and i mean that .. u ask the question and make people think for themselves .. and teaching people how to think is in my opinion probably the most important lesson a teacher can teach their students ...
anyhow I'm curious as to what the haters are suppose to learn from that statement about Green in relationship to Frye ...
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I just don't see why so many people think Savage is a genius.
me neither ... but at the same time i have no clue why u think hes such a dolt .. theres more ways to skin a cat than the way U or I want to Vers ... I pretty much have agreed with U on almost every move we've made (and i mean the big ones like first day draft picks in general and ignoring the OL on day 2) .... but just because its not what U or I wanted doesnt; mean it wont work and u just rip him at every opportunity ...
and just like i dont understand why some think hes a genius i have no clue why u think he STINKS SO BAD .. *shrugs shoulders*
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It was very obvious that Frye's hand was bothering him quite a bit in that last game. He threw a lot of wounded ducks in that game; more than he threw all year. Unfortunately, those are the throws that most people remember.
not me .. i didnt even judge him on that game ... but what in the hell did Opie say that was untrue??? he said he played OK and had a big fumble??
WTF Vers ... is he suppose to be like your boy bOtch and tell us how good he played that day?? *LOL* ..
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I think the kid played for the right reasons. He wanted to prove he was tough. He wanted to prove that he wasn't afraid of competition. He wanted to help his coach. And he wanted to prove he was a team guy. Instead, he is called out for making mistakes, many of which were caused by the injury.
*LOL* .. how was he called out???? thats just ludicrous and its statements like that that lead me to believe u just hate Opie ..
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I'm going to say this again. I am not sold on Charlie Frye. My biggest concerns are:
---Accuracy. Despite completing 65% of his passes, I did notice that he struggles w/accuracy. And no.......it's not on the deep throws. His problems come more in the intermediate range, especially outside the hash marks.
---Reading coverages. He appears to get confused by zone coverages. This problem is compounded because teams could stop our run w/4 guys and were able to drop seven into coverage. We should have been able to pound the ball down their throats, but we couldn't run at all.
U should have just posted that .... we agree 100 % on the above ..well except for one thing .. the confusion would still exist on the zone coverages weather we could run or not .. it just wouldn't have been exposed as much .. it will still be a MAJOR PROBLEM if he cant overcome it even when we can run better ... witch wont be this year BTW ... but thats another story .. *L*
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Like I said........I need more time to judge this kid. I really wish that you all would get off his back and let this play out. Believe me........if the majority of people were kissing his ass, I would tell them that it was too early to say Charlie was the answer.
there is no doubt in my mind u would .... u are on the fence with Charlie ... just like I was with Timid .. people think u like him just because your sticking up for him with the dolts (we've switched sides .. *LOL) ..
unlike u I don't need more time .. his positives will never be enough to overcome his negatives .. hes just not a very accurate QB and that has zero to do with his WR's ... that coupled with his lack of arm strength and his lack of decision making skills will render him to be a good back up ...
the only one of these he has a shot of improving is his decision making .. and even if he improves that it won't be enough to hide his other defencies .. i dont need more time .. he will end up a back up .. and a damm good one at that ..
and it will play out bro .. and my guess is he will start again this year ...
Green goes to Miami and the QB's go 1/2 (funny how i said that in Jan and never waivered and now it looks like its "popular "again .. ) ... we get Joe (hopefully) and Charlie starts again .. and i'd be OK with that ..
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Charlie has some issues, but I believe most of those can be worked out. The other problems that people talk about, such as hand size, arm strength, etc....do not concern me. Hell, I might even make a QB thread.......because of a lot of this [censored] that is believed to be true on here is driving me nuts.
if u make that thread i may even respond(dont count on it ... no time right now .. ) .. someone that knows what their talking about needs to .. *LOL* ... then we can get into what accuracy and arm strenght really means for the dolts that have no clue ..
Have a Good Easter my friend ...
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My biggest fear a month ago was that we draft Adrian Peterson with Joe on the board. Now I have another fear, and that is that we sign Trent Green and draft Brady Quinn.
I hear u bro ... no need for Trent when we have BQ .... 
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And no need to worry about playoff tix either.... 
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ya .. cause worrying about playoff tix is gonna be a reality if we go witch way??? *LOL* ...
Have a happy easter my brother ... and i hope all is well my man ...
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With BQ we won't ever make the playoffs. He's not a good QB. How many times must I tell you this? Back atcha my friend...
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My biggest fear a month ago was that we draft Adrian Peterson with Joe on the board. Now I have another fear, and that is that we sign Trent Green and draft Brady Quinn.
You're talented. Not only have you managed to ruin my breakfast, but you also ruined my lunch, both in one fell swoop.
Thanks for nuthin' *L*
I don't personally believe that trading for Green means Quinn. I prefer to think that it buys Frye a little more time, and lets us take someone else like........oh.........I dunno.........Thomas
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I'll try and roll with that in my mind.....but it's not easy. I think we've been conditioned to think like this....
I'm gonna start drinking pepto about a week before the draft, I just know it!
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Wow.. going to be a lot of upset and ticked off people. See what happens when you give people too many good choices. I can see it now.. no matter WHO we pick, that person will be like the Texans pick last year. Never good enough....
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I've tried to remain silent on a lot of this draft talk, frankly because I'm not the sharpest crayon in the box (though I am the prettiest! ) but it just seems to me that we DON"T need a QB....yet. I'm just not ready to give up on Frye yet. We gave the guy only 16 starts, behind a Division II type line, no creativity in the offense, and less then ZERO production from the running game.
IMO, the line has been upgraded enough NOT to waste a 3rd overall pick on an offensive lineman- so no JT is not my pick- though I fully understand it if we go that direction. Just seems like a waste. Its been said on this board, and is proven that good lineman can be found in later rounds.
So...no QB, no O line- that leaves Peterson, though I believe if Johnson is still on the board, he's the pick, just for the value.
But what the Hell do I know? 
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Its been said on this board, and is proven that good lineman can be found in later rounds.
Just for the record, I have to qualify my disagreement with this.
Yes, you can find good linemen in later rounds..... Good Interior Linemen.
To get that "franchise" Left Tackle though, there is generally only ONE spot to get it, and that is at the top of the Draft. Even your top tier Right Tackles have to be taken later round 1 or round 2.
As a side thought... Here's something to remember when considering the line:
The Obvious: The more people it takes them to get past your line, the more wide open that defense is going to be. Hands down, guaranteed.
If your 5 linemen can actually block a full 5 defenders on the majority of all plays.... you've got 90% of every single game won.... it's just a matter of time because they now have to either get no pressure at all or commit yet another player to the rush to do anything. That defense will be a sieve. They will be forced to stack the box against the run and will get no pressure at all against the pass. You will impose your will upon them.
By contrast, we have had many, many, many (waaay too many) times when 6 blockers can't block out 3 rushers. This is the level of change we need to see happen.
So, look at each of our starting linemen and ask yourself... "Can he win 1 on 1 on almost every play for an entire game?". If the answer is no or even a hesitation, he needs to be upgraded.
Steinbach? Yes.
Shaffer at LT? No.
Fraley? I think so.
Tucker? Yes.
McKinney? I don't know enough to judge.
And finally, always remember: It ALL starts with the Line.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Good to read you man. You are missed... Wish you had more time to share... Outstanding effort and reply. JMO you nailed it... If you end up haivng the arm strenght and accuracy discussion please PM me and let me know. I'd like to at least budget time to read it. Take care, be well and Happy Easter.
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With BQ we won't ever make the playoffs. He's not a good QB. How many times must I tell you this?
OK Merrill ... or is it Mr. Hodge??
BB .. how u doing my friend .. I hope all is well ... nice to see we agree on sumptin for a change ..
I hope u had a good Easter my man ... a line of questioning u may wanna keep in mind for future use ...
how many mouths did God give u?? ... how many ears did God give U?? ... how many eyes to God give U?? theres a reason for that ...
Shocka bra .....
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But what the Hell do I know?
I don't know the answer to that, but I do know that your judgement in pretty crayons is flawed
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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[IMO, the line has been upgraded enough NOT to waste a 3rd overall pick on an offensive lineman- so no JT is not my pick- though I fully understand it if we go that direction. Just seems like a waste. Its been said on this board, and is proven that good lineman can be found in later rounds.
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Man you are 100%,,,,entitled to your own opinion! But I'm afraid that I disagree,,
Look at the very top LT's in the league,, the Elite,, how many were taken in the 1st or 2nd round... then go back and look at it in a historical perspective.say, go back 15 years.
Now I'm not gonna take the time to do it for you,, but you are gonna find that most elite LT's were 1st or 2nd round picks,,
As PPE explained, you can always find interior Olinemen in the middle of the draft,,, I can see that,, but Elite LT's,,, no,, not so much! Thomas is the right choice IMO!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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just don't see why so many people think Savage is a genius.
Who was it that said that you can't really tell about how good your picks are until about 2 or was it 3 years has gone by...then examine how they turned out
My comment had nothing to do w/his first draft. It was what he said about his quarterback.
I'm not even going to discuss his first draft w/you because that isn't what I was talking about and also because I promised I wouldn't fight w/you anymore....and believe me.........this one has the potential to get ugly. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I get what your saying totally, and if Savage calls JT's name on draft day, I won't be upset about it one bit. I DO agree everything starts from the line out. My point is though, and I guess I didn't make it clear enough on my initial post, is drafrting out of the #3 slot, again- I don't think we need a QB, neither do I believe it HAS to be an Elite LT.
Its my ongoing prayer we are not drafting in the TOP 5 again next year, or for many,many years to come. With that in mind, it is my preference that if we are going to get an ELITE player, I would rather it be at a skill position- Adrian Peterson or Calvin Johnson. ( I believe Quinn and Russell will be gone by our pick)
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Whole bunch of stale. I think he can be had for very little relatively speaking; he is attractive as a trade for over 7 million reasons. I feel it was high tide for FO stupidity and bad judgment when we kept so many qubes, gave them no veteran assistance, and did nothing with them. We could have used THAT only a lot and desperately. However, we need to get a solid one. I think Frye may be done. On another note, I do not believe Anderson is our starter; this junk that is flashing about he earned a shot at another camp and how swell those 3 games were is hard to fathom. Certainly were NOT good enough for any further starts. call him a back up and move on. C-frye gets half of one season to show notches and REAL improvement or goes is my prediction. Get the Browns a DIVISION WIN in Ought Eight!  
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Enough with the QB talk allready. Jeez.
The only thing we know for certain is that we cannot trust what Savage says to be the absolute truth, so we can just wait and see what happens.
I see your point. I know I got sick of reading the two others QB threads and then I go and start another one.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Vers,,, why so upset,, I don't think it was you I was quoting there...,, Why are you so anxious to attack someone..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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LOL.........did you reply to my post one point at a time w/out reading the entire thing first? I'm only asking because your tone changes as you move through it. I know I was ready to go upside your big head early in the post, but you actually made me think and smile later on. Quote:
Hmmmm .. thats a real tough one .. *LOL* ...
but as usual u couldnt pass up a chance to take a shot ...
It may not be tough for you and I, but there were hundreds of posts on the two other QB threads and I didn't see it mentioned.
Take a shot? Bro, I pass up chances at shots all the time. There are hundreds and hundreds of them w/this team. I don't need to reach. I was simply pointing out that Green might not want to play in Cleveland. The offense is one of the worst--if not the worst--in the entire NFL. Why would an aging QB wanna play here?..........unless he doesn't have any other offers.
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He had to make too many plays on his own last year.
yes he did .. to bad he made most of them for the other team .. a fact u and most conveniantly overlook in your unending defense of boy wonder ...
Never ending defense of boy wonder? I have said I am not sure about CF on numerous occasions.
I don't agree w/you that most of time he made more mistakes than good plays. That ain't true. You just remember the bad plays more because of the emotion of it. That's natural, but it don't make it right. Frye kept a ton of drives alive last year, by making plays outta nothing!
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theres hopr for u yet ....
only problem here is that QB was one of the positions they were very unproductive at .. and he took it upon himself to try and do more than he was capable of .. thats his fault .. not everyone elses ...
Alright.......don't be like the majority and simplify it to black and white. First of all, there were times when he did try to do more than he was capable of, but those times were in the minority. Secondly, I want a QB that can make plays on his own. I want a QB that makes something outta nothing. I don't want a QB who is just a manager of the game.
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no doubt he was in a bad situation ... that he just made worse ...
but at the end of the day Vers .. this has nothign to do with why he will never be even an avg. starter oin the NFL .. he DEFENCIES just dont overcome his
strenghts ... when u start off a convo about a QB being a great leader and tough and mobile ... your in trouble from the get go .. cause the main skills a QB needs are accuracy and brains ... and if u mention neither of them when talking about your QB ... well its like getting hooked up with a girl that has a great personality ...
LOL........... You could be right, but I am not sure yet. I've seen plenty of ugly duckling girls blossom into beautiful women. I think Charlie can still improve. I also think it's a bit too early to make final determinations on his accuracy and certainly his brains.
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just another unwarranted shot at Opie ..
What has he done to show you that he understands quarterbacks and offense? Is it releasing Garcia and Holcomb, only to trade a 4th rd. pick for Dilfer? Is it then trading Dilfer for Dorsey? Is it going into last season w/out an established vet? Is it putting the offense in the hands of an inexperienced QB, even though the OL sucked and the other skill positions were either inexperienced or duds?
Please..........that comment was one of the most warranted comments that's ever been said on this board..........if I do have to say so myself.
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I hope the Frye haters are reading this part
i'm not a Frye hater .. I actually admire the kid .. i'd feel bad for him but he was given a chance albiet not a good one .. but i doubt he would have ever even got a chance like we gave him anywhere else in the NFL ..
with that said ... just wondering what the Frye haters are suppose to learn from that ...
and by the way .. you are a true teacher and more than likely a good one ... and i mean that .. u ask the question and make people think for themselves .. and teaching people how to think is in my opinion probably the most important lesson a teacher can teach their students ...
anyhow I'm curious as to what the haters are suppose to learn from that statement about Green in relationship to Frye ...
Thanks for the compliment. Yes, a good teacher should be a facilitator for the learner, rather than a lecturer.
The answer to your question is nothing deep or profound. I think that when people are unhappy w/the current team or a current player, they oftentimes overvalue what the new guy can bring.
Savage said this about Green.......he said he only wanted to be a starter---- meaning he would be a huge distraction if he was beaten out for the starting job ..............did not have adequate arm strength LOL, which is ironic because that is one of the biggest things the Frye haters use against Charlie. .............and that he lacked mobility which is a problem behind Cleveland's porous offensive line.
Additionally, Green is old. Very old. He won't be around too much longer. I also thought he struggled after he came back from the concussion last year. He wasn't the same Trent Green. I've always liked Green and thought he was underrated, but he lost something last year. Of course, it could have been as simple as his OL wasn't as good as in year's past. However, if that is true.............what's he going to do in Cleveland?
You see my point? Bro, sometimes fixing these problems aren't as easy as people think they are. The bottom line is I'm not sure if Trent Green...all things considered...is a better option for the Browns than Frye is.
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I just don't see why so many people think Savage is a genius.
me neither ... but at the same time i have no clue why u think hes such a dolt .. theres more ways to skin a cat than the way U or I want to Vers ... I pretty much have agreed with U on almost every move we've made (and i mean the big ones like first day draft picks in general and ignoring the OL on day 2) .... but just because its not what U or I wanted doesnt; mean it wont work and u just rip him at every opportunity ...
and just like i dont understand why some think hes a genius i have no clue why u think he STINKS SO BAD .. *shrugs shoulders*
I don't think he is a dolt or that he stinks. I just haven't seen the "genius" from him that others have. Hell......I think a lot of why people like him has a lot to do w/what I just told you about Green and Frye. They hated Butch and wanna believe the new guy is great so bad, they make it a reality.....at least in their own minds.
At this point in time, I think Savage has made more bad moves than good moves. I haven't made a final determination on him yet, but I am saying that this is a big off-season for him. Hell, I'm praying he has a good one, because if he doesn't....we're in for more of this same BS for years and years and years. The draft is a cool topic, but I would rather be talking about the playoffs in Sept, Oct, Nov, and Dec. than the freaking draft.
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It was very obvious that Frye's hand was bothering him quite a bit in that last game. He threw a lot of wounded ducks in that game; more than he threw all year. Unfortunately, those are the throws that most people remember.
not me .. i didnt even judge him on that game ... but what in the hell did Opie say that was untrue??? he said he played OK and had a big fumble??
Wait. You told us all that you thought Savage did the right thing by defending Leon earlier this year. Now, you are saying he should tell the truth? Which is it? And if you ask me.......Leon's sins were much worse than Frye's?
And even putting that aside......I'm saying he did not make an accurate evaluation of that game. The hand was certainly a factor in how Frye played. I think he totally ignored Frye's moxie. Ahhhh..........here is where you didn't think, even though I gave you that opportunity. Ask yourself why Savage would respond to that question in the manner he did.
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U should have just posted that .... we agree 100 % on the above
LOL........I did.
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unlike u I don't need more time .. his positives will never be enough to overcome his negatives .. hes just not a very accurate QB and that has zero to do with his WR's ... that coupled with his lack of arm strength and his lack of decision making skills will render him to be a good back up ...
the only one of these he has a shot of improving is his decision making .. and even if he improves that it won't be enough to hide his other defencies .. i dont need more time .. he will end up a back up .. and a damm good one at that ..
You could be right. But, I still need to see more.
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Charlie has some issues, but I believe most of those can be worked out. The other problems that people talk about, such as hand size, arm strength, etc....do not concern me. Hell, I might even make a QB thread.......because of a lot of this [censored] that is believed to be true on here is driving me nuts.
if u make that thread i may even respond(dont count on it ... no time right now .. ) .. someone that knows what their talking about needs to .. *LOL* ... then we can get into what accuracy and arm strenght really means for the dolts that have no clue ..
Try and respond if I do make the thread. Check it over and make sure I don't miss anything. I won't spend a lot of time on it, so I'll probably forget something.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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The Browns' interest in Green isn't surprising, but it was surprising the way it happened.
On Monday at the NFL Meetings, Savage said the Browns had discussed veteran quarterbacks but decided against going after one.
He even gave specific reasons: Green wanted to be only a starter, his arm strength was not adequate, and his lack of mobility was a problem.
Vers I hope the Frye haters are reading this part.
I love French Fryes..lol..but yet Phil talks about bringing him in..oh , o.k.. I'm going to say this again. I am not sold on Charlie Frye. My biggest concerns are:
---Accuracy. Despite completing 65% of his passes, I did notice that he struggles w/accuracy. And no.......it's not on the deep throws. His problems come more in the intermediate range, especially outside the hash marks.
---Reading coverages. He appears to get confused by zone coverages. This problem is compounded because teams could stop our run w/4 guys and were able to drop seven into coverage. We should have been able to pound the ball down their throats, but we couldn't run at all.
Oh o.k..but when I mentioned those things I'm making things up..rrrright...those are things most knowledgeable people can see in him..it's those out, crossing patterns that kill him..his passes are behind his man or in the dirt.. Like I said........I need more time to judge this kid. I really wish that you all would get off his back and let this play out It is playing out..so we'r not supposed to say sumpting about Fyre , but when you find a player that doesn't fit you can comment on him real fast... "Brilliant"!! Just giving you a bit of a hard time..U get upset sometimes more easily than U used to..
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Vers,,, why so upset,, I don't think it was you I was quoting there...,, Why are you so anxious to attack someone..
What are you talking about? I wasn't upset at all. And I sure as hell wasn't attacking you. You misread me all the time.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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just don't see why so many people think Savage is a genius.
Who was it that said that you can't really tell about how good your picks are until about 2 or was it 3 years has gone by...then examine how they turned out
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My comment had nothing to do w/his first draft. It was what he said about his quarterback.
I'm not even going to discuss his first draft w/you because that isn't what I was talking about and also because I promised I wouldn't fight w/you anymore....and believe me.........this one has the potential to get ugly.
I wasn't quoting you,,,, so I was wondering why it might turn into a fight,,,
As for asking why Savage is considered such a genius by some of us, well, I was trying to say, that in my mind, he isn't a genius,, just a guy trying to get the job done..
But the proof,, as always, is in the pudding. The first opportunity we have to judge savage is this year.. or at least the first REAL opportunity to judge his first draft class..
That was my point, now if I misread you,,, my apologies,,,,
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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just don't see why so many people think Savage is a genius.
Who was it that said that you can't really tell about how good your picks are until about 2 or was it 3 years has gone by...then examine how they turned out
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My comment had nothing to do w/his first draft. It was what he said about his quarterback.
I'm not even going to discuss his first draft w/you because that isn't what I was talking about and also because I promised I wouldn't fight w/you anymore....and believe me.........this one has the potential to get ugly.
But the proof,, as always, is in the pudding. The first opportunity we have to judge savage is this year.. or at least the first REAL opportunity to judge his first draft class..
,,,,
Side note - when Savage was hired it was (I believe) only 6 months prior to his first draft - he didn't have time to have his scout team fully in place and on the same page (this was documented in many articles). I think it's still too ealry to judge. You can easily see the impact last years draft had in a short time - which was his first draft with the scout team all on the same page and with the same focus. Just wanted to interject that. Carry on.
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when Savage was hired it was (I believe) only 6 months prior to his first draft - he didn't have time to have his scout team fully in place and on the same page (this was documented in many articles). I think it's still too ealry to judge. Only freaking thing U said that is accurate, that you didn't try to use any stats to back it up with.
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