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Linkerooski

In case people want to know what happened to the Cleveland Browns.. this list makes me wanna puke. <img src="/images/graemlins/plthumbsdown.gif" alt="" />

Injuries
Date Player Position Injury Expected Return
12/3/06 Leigh Bodden CB ankle questionable for Sun 12/3.
12/3/06 Reuben Droughns RB foot questionable for Sun 12/3.
12/3/06 Nick Eason DT ankle questionable for Sun 12/3.
12/3/06 Justin Hamilton S back questionable for Sun 12/3.
12/3/06 Willie McGinest LB pectoral questionable for Sun 12/3.
12/3/06 Orpheus Roye DT knee Doubtful for Sun 12/3.
12/3/06 Brian Russell S elbow questionable for Sun 12/3.
12/3/06 Mason Unck LB groin questionable for Sun 12/3.
12/3/06 Kellen Winslow TE knee questionable for Sun 12/3.
11/29/06 Ethan Kelley DT On IR. Out for the season.
11/29/06 Ryan Tucker T On IR. Out for the season.
11/26/06 Leigh Bodden CB ankle questionable for Sun 11/26.
11/26/06 Cosey Coleman G foot questionable for Sun 11/26.
11/26/06 Reuben Droughns RB foot questionable for Sun 11/26.
11/26/06 Braylon Edwards WR forearm Probable for Sun 11/26.
11/26/06 Justin Hamilton S back out for Sun 11/26.
11/26/06 Willie McGinest LB ankle questionable for Sun 11/26.
11/26/06 Brian Russell S elbow questionable for Sun 11/26.
11/26/06 Ted Washington DT elbow Probable for Sun 11/26.
11/26/06 Leon Williams LB ankle questionable for Sun 11/26.
11/26/06 Kellen Winslow TE knee Probable for Sun 11/26.
11/19/06 Leigh Bodden CB ankle out for Sun 11/19.
11/19/06 Joshua Cribbs WR thumb questionable for Sun 11/19.
11/19/06 Reuben Droughns RB foot questionable for Sun 11/19.
11/19/06 Charlie Frye QB left wrist Probable for Sun 11/19.
11/19/06 Justin Hamilton S back questionable for Sun 11/19.
11/19/06 Willie McGinest LB ankle questionable for Sun 11/19.
11/19/06 Jereme Perry CB ankle questionable for Sun 11/19.
11/19/06 Leon Williams LB ankle questionable for Sun 11/19.
11/19/06 Kellen Winslow TE knee questionable for Sun 11/19.
11/12/06 Joe Andruzzi G knee questionable for Sun 11/12.
11/12/06 Leigh Bodden CB ankle out for Sun 11/12.
11/12/06 Kelly Butler T wrist Probable for Sun 11/12.
11/12/06 Cosey Coleman G knee questionable for Sun 11/12.
11/12/06 Charlie Frye QB thumb Probable for Sun 11/12.
11/12/06 Daven Holly CB illness questionable for Sun 11/12.
11/12/06 D'Qwell Jackson LB ankle Probable for Sun 11/12.
11/12/06 Joe Jurevicius WR back questionable for Sun 11/12.
11/12/06 Willie McGinest LB ankle questionable for Sun 11/12.
11/12/06 Dennis Northcutt WR ribs Probable for Sun 11/12.
11/12/06 Jereme Perry DB ankle questionable for Sun 11/12.
11/12/06 Orpheus Roye DT hamstring questionable for Sun 11/12.
11/12/06 Matt Stewart LB head questionable for Sun 11/12.
11/12/06 Ryan Tucker T illness questionable for Sun 11/12.
11/12/06 Leon Williams LB ankle questionable for Sun 11/12.
11/12/06 Kellen Winslow TE knee questionable for Sun 11/12.
11/6/06 Leigh Bodden CB Ankle Day-to-Day for /.
11/6/06 Leon Williams LB Ankle Day-to-Day for /.
11/5/06 Joe Andruzzi G knee questionable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Leigh Bodden CB ankle questionable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Justin Hamilton S ankle questionable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Daven Holly CB illness questionable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Willie McGinest LB ankle questionable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Dennis Northcutt WR ribs questionable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Jereme Perry DB ankle Probable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Orpheus Roye DT hamstring questionable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Ryan Tucker T illness out for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Kellen Winslow TE knee questionable for Sun 11/5.
10/30/06 Joe Andruzzi G Knee Day-to-Day for /.
10/30/06 Willie McGinest LB Ankle Day-to-Day for /.
10/29/06 Leigh Bodden CB ankle questionable for Sun 10/29.
10/29/06 Justin Hamilton S ankle questionable for Sun 10/29.
10/29/06 Dennis Northcutt WR ribs questionable for Sun 10/29.
10/29/06 Brodney Pool S hamstring questionable for Sun 10/29.
10/29/06 Brian Russell S ankle questionable for Sun 10/29.
10/29/06 Ryan Tucker T illness out for Sun 10/29.
10/29/06 Lawrence Vickers RB elbow questionable for Sun 10/29.
10/29/06 Kellen Winslow TE knee questionable for Sun 10/29.
10/24/06 Gary Baxter CB On IR. Out for the season.
10/23/06 Gary Baxter CB Knee Day-to-Day for /.
10/22/06 Gary Baxter CB pectoral questionable for Sun 10/22.
10/22/06 Leigh Bodden CB ankle questionable for Sun 10/22.
10/22/06 Justin Hamilton S ankle questionable for Sun 10/22.
10/22/06 Dennis Northcutt WR ribs questionable for Sun 10/22.
10/22/06 Brian Russell S ankle questionable for Sun 10/22.
10/22/06 Ryan Tucker T illness questionable for Sun 10/22.
10/22/06 Kellen Winslow TE knee questionable for Sun 10/22.
10/10/06 Dennis Northcutt WR Ribs Day-to-Day for /.
10/8/06 Gary Baxter CB pectoral questionable for Sun 10/8.
10/8/06 Leigh Bodden CB ankle questionable for Sun 10/8.
10/8/06 Reuben Droughns RB shoulder questionable for Sun 10/8.
10/8/06 Nick Eason DT ankle questionable for Sun 10/8.
10/8/06 Justin Hamilton S ankle out for Sun 10/8.
10/8/06 Joe Jurevicius WR ribs questionable for Sun 10/8.
10/8/06 Willie McGinest LB calf questionable for Sun 10/8.
10/8/06 Orpheus Roye DT shoulder questionable for Sun 10/8.
10/8/06 Brian Russell S elbow questionable for Sun 10/8.
10/8/06 Lawrence Vickers RB illness questionable for Sun 10/8.
10/8/06 Travis Wilson WR knee questionable for Sun 10/8.
10/8/06 Kellen Winslow TE knee questionable for Sun 10/8.
10/1/06 Gary Baxter CB pectoral out for Sun 10/1.
10/1/06 Cosey Coleman G hand Probable for Sun 10/1.
10/1/06 Darnell Dinkins TE hamstring questionable for Sun 10/1.
10/1/06 Reuben Droughns RB shoulder questionable for Sun 10/1.
10/1/06 Nick Eason DT ankle out for Sun 10/1.
10/1/06 Simon Fraser DE shoulder questionable for Sun 10/1.
10/1/06 Justin Hamilton S Ankle questionable for Sun 10/1.
10/1/06 Joe Jurevicius WR ribs questionable for Sun 10/1.
10/1/06 Willie McGinest LB calf questionable for Sun 10/1.
10/1/06 Orpheus Roye DT shoulder questionable for Sun 10/1.
10/1/06 Brian Russell S elbow Probable for Sun 10/1.
10/1/06 Kellen Winslow TE knee questionable for Sun 10/1.
9/24/06 Gary Baxter CB Pectoral Doubtful for Sun 9/24.
9/24/06 Darnell Dinkins TE Hamstring Doubtful for Sun 9/24.
9/24/06 Reuben Droughns RB Shoulder questionable for Sun 9/24.
9/24/06 Nick Eason DT Ankle out for Sun 9/24.
9/24/06 Joe Jurevicius WR Ribs Doubtful for Sun 9/24.
9/24/06 Willie McGinest LB Calf questionable for Sun 9/24.
9/24/06 Orpheus Roye DT Shoulder Doubtful for Sun 9/24.
9/24/06 Brian Russell S Elbow questionable for Sun 9/24.
9/24/06 Kellen Winslow TE Knee Probable for Sun 9/24.
9/19/06 Daylon McCutcheon CB Knee On IR. Out for the season.
9/17/06 Darnell Dinkins TE hamstring out for Sun 9/17.
9/17/06 Nick Eason DT ankle out for Sun 9/17.
9/17/06 Joe Jurevicius WR ribs out for Sun 9/17.
9/17/06 Daylon McCutcheon CB knee Doubtful for Sun 9/17.
9/17/06 Willie McGinest LB calf Probable for Sun 9/17.
9/17/06 Brodney Pool S quadricep Probable for Sun 9/17.
9/17/06 Brian Russell S elbow questionable for Sun 9/17.
9/10/06 Joe Andruzzi G ankle questionable for Sun 9/10.
9/10/06 Gary Baxter CB pectoral questionable for Sun 9/10.
9/10/06 Leigh Bodden CB pectoral questionable for Sun 9/10.
9/10/06 Darnell Dinkins TE knee questionable for Sun 9/10.
9/10/06 Joe Jurevicius WR ribs Day-to-Day for /.
9/10/06 Daylon McCutcheon CB knee out for Sun 9/10.
9/10/06 Brian Russell S elbow Doubtful for Sun 9/10.
9/3/06 William Green RB On IR. Out for the season.
8/30/06 Shawn Mayer S Ankle On IR. Out for the season.
8/30/06 DeMario Minter CB Knee On IR. Out for the season.
8/28/06 Jeremy LeSueur S On IR. Out for the season.
7/31/06 LeCharles Bentley C Knee On IR. Out for the season.

I don't wanna hear it. This is a playoff team's injuries.. The New England Patriots..


12/3/06 Tom Brady QB right shoulder Probable for Sun 12/3.
12/3/06 Daniel Graham TE ankle questionable for Sun 12/3.
12/3/06 Rodney Harrison S shoulder out for Sun 12/3.
12/3/06 Ellis Hobbs CB wrist questionable for Sun 12/3.
12/3/06 Corey Mays LB hamstring questionable for Sun 12/3.
12/3/06 Ryan O'Callaghan T neck questionable for Sun 12/3.
12/3/06 Chad Scott CB groin questionable for Sun 12/3.
12/3/06 Richard Seymour DT elbow Probable for Sun 12/3.
12/3/06 Eugene Wilson S hamstring questionable for Sun 12/3.
11/27/06 Junior Seau LB arm On IR. Out for the season.
11/26/06 Tom Brady QB right shoulder Probable for Sun 11/26.
11/26/06 Kevin Faulk RB flu questionable for Sun 11/26.
11/26/06 Daniel Graham TE ankle questionable for Sun 11/26.
11/26/06 Rodney Harrison S shoulder out for Sun 11/26.
11/26/06 Ellis Hobbs CB wrist questionable for Sun 11/26.
11/26/06 Corey Mays LB ankle questionable for Sun 11/26.
11/26/06 Asante Samuel CB knee questionable for Sun 11/26.
11/26/06 Chad Scott CB groin questionable for Sun 11/26.
11/26/06 Richard Seymour DT elbow Probable for Sun 11/26.
11/26/06 David Thomas TE groin questionable for Sun 11/26.
11/26/06 Eugene Wilson S hamstring questionable for Sun 11/26.
11/24/06 Josh Miller P shoulder On IR. Out for the season.
11/19/06 Tom Brady QB right shoulder Probable for Sun 11/19.
11/19/06 Daniel Graham TE ankle questionable for Sun 11/19.
11/19/06 Rodney Harrison S shoulder out for Sun 11/19.
11/19/06 Ellis Hobbs CB wrist questionable for Sun 11/19.
11/19/06 Stephen Neal G shoulder questionable for Sun 11/19.
11/19/06 Asante Samuel CB knee questionable for Sun 11/19.
11/19/06 Richard Seymour DT elbow questionable for Sun 11/19.
11/19/06 David Thomas TE Groin Probable for Sun 11/19.
11/19/06 Ty Warren DT shoulder questionable for Sun 11/19.
11/19/06 Eugene Wilson S hamstring questionable for Sun 11/19.
11/14/06 Garrett Mills RB thigh On IR. Out for the season.
11/13/06 Billy Yates G Leg On IR. Out for the season.
11/12/06 Tom Brady QB right shoulder Probable for Sun 11/12.
11/12/06 Daniel Graham TE ankle questionable for Sun 11/12.
11/12/06 Rodney Harrison S shoulder out for Sun 11/12.
11/12/06 Ellis Hobbs CB wrist questionable for Sun 11/12.
11/12/06 Russ Hochstein G knee questionable for Sun 11/12.
11/12/06 Laurence Maroney RB ankle questionable for Sun 11/12.
11/12/06 Garrett Mills RB thigh questionable for Sun 11/12.
11/12/06 Stephen Neal G shoulder questionable for Sun 11/12.
11/12/06 Richard Seymour DT elbow questionable for Sun 11/12.
11/12/06 Ty Warren DT shoulder questionable for Sun 11/12.
11/12/06 Eugene Wilson S hamstring questionable for Sun 11/12.
11/6/06 Rodney Harrison S Arm Day-to-Day for /.
11/5/06 Willie Andrews CB thigh questionable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Tom Brady QB right shoulder Probable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Reche Caldwell WR knee questionable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Matt Cassel QB right shoulder Probable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Don Davis LB lower leg questionable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Kevin Faulk RB ankle questionable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Jabar Gaffney WR hand questionable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Daniel Graham TE ankle questionable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Ellis Hobbs CB wrist questionable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Russ Hochstein G knee questionable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Chad Jackson WR hamstring questionable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Nick Kaczur T shoulder questionable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Matt Light T hand questionable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Laurence Maroney RB ankle questionable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Garrett Mills RB thigh questionable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Stephen Neal G shoulder questionable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Richard Seymour DT elbow questionable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Antwain Spann CB shoulder questionable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 David Thomas TE hand questionable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Ty Warren DT shoulder questionable for Sun 11/5.
11/5/06 Eugene Wilson S hamstring questionable for Sun 11/5.
10/30/06 Willie Andrews CB thigh Probable for Mon 10/30.
10/30/06 Tom Brady QB right shoulder Probable for Mon 10/30.
10/30/06 Don Davis LB lower leg Probable for Mon 10/30.
10/30/06 Kevin Faulk RB ankle questionable for Mon 10/30.
10/30/06 Daniel Graham TE ankle questionable for Mon 10/30.
10/30/06 Ellis Hobbs CB wrist questionable for Mon 10/30.
10/30/06 Russ Hochstein G knee questionable for Mon 10/30.
10/30/06 Nick Kaczur T shoulder questionable for Mon 10/30.
10/30/06 Stephen Neal G shoulder questionable for Mon 10/30.
10/30/06 Richard Seymour DT elbow questionable for Mon 10/30.
10/30/06 Antwain Spann CB shoulder Probable for Mon 10/30.
10/30/06 Ty Warren DT hip questionable for Mon 10/30.
10/30/06 Eugene Wilson S hamstring questionable for Mon 10/30.
10/23/06 Richard Seymour DT Elbow Day-to-Day for /.
10/22/06 Willie Andrews CB thigh Probable for Sun 10/22.
10/22/06 Tom Brady QB right shoulder Probable for Sun 10/22.
10/22/06 Don Davis LB Lower leg questionable for Sun 10/22.
10/22/06 Kevin Faulk RB Ankle questionable for Sun 10/22.
10/22/06 Daniel Graham TE ankle questionable for Sun 10/22.
10/22/06 Ellis Hobbs CB wrist questionable for Sun 10/22.
10/22/06 Russ Hochstein G knee questionable for Sun 10/22.
10/22/06 Nick Kaczur T shoulder questionable for Sun 10/22.
10/22/06 Antwain Spann CB shoulder Probable for Sun 10/22.
10/22/06 Eugene Wilson S hamstring questionable for Sun 10/22.
10/8/06 Willie Andrews CB thigh Probable for Sun 10/8.
10/8/06 Tom Brady QB right shoulder Probable for Sun 10/8.
10/8/06 Daniel Graham TE ankle questionable for Sun 10/8.
10/8/06 Artrell Hawkins CB thigh questionable for Sun 10/8.
10/8/06 Ellis Hobbs CB wrist questionable for Sun 10/8.
10/8/06 Chad Jackson WR hamstring questionable for Sun 10/8.
10/8/06 Nick Kaczur T shoulder questionable for Sun 10/8.
10/8/06 Ryan O'Callaghan T head Probable for Sun 10/8.
10/8/06 Antwain Spann CB Shoulder Probable for Sun 10/8.
10/8/06 Eugene Wilson S hamstring questionable for Sun 10/8.
10/1/06 Tom Brady QB right shoulder Probable for Sun 10/1.
10/1/06 Doug Gabriel WR hamstring Probable for Sun 10/1.
10/1/06 Artrell Hawkins CB thigh questionable for Sun 10/1.
10/1/06 Ellis Hobbs CB wrist questionable for Sun 10/1.
10/1/06 Chad Jackson WR hamstring questionable for Sun 10/1.
10/1/06 Nick Kaczur T shoulder questionable for Sun 10/1.
10/1/06 Matt Light T knee Probable for Sun 10/1.
10/1/06 Ryan O'Callaghan T head Probable for Sun 10/1.
10/1/06 Eugene Wilson S hamstring questionable for Sun 10/1.
9/27/06 Randall Gay CB Hamstring On IR. Out for the season.
9/25/06 Corey Dillon RB Arm Day-to-Day for /.
9/25/06 Rodney Harrison S Arm Day-to-Day for /.
9/25/06 Matt Light T Left knee Day-to-Day for /.
9/24/06 Tom Brady QB right shoulder Probable for Sun 9/24.
9/24/06 Doug Gabriel WR hamstring Probable for Sun 9/24.
9/24/06 Artrell Hawkins CB thigh questionable for Sun 9/24.
9/24/06 Chad Jackson WR hamstring questionable for Sun 9/24.
9/24/06 Nick Kaczur T shoulder questionable for Sun 9/24.
9/24/06 Matt Light T knee Probable for Sun 9/24.
9/17/06 Tom Brady QB right shoulder Probable for Sun 9/17.
9/17/06 Tedy Bruschi LB wrist questionable for Sun 9/17.
9/17/06 Doug Gabriel WR hamstring Probable for Sun 9/17.
9/17/06 Rodney Harrison S flu Probable for Sun 9/17.
9/17/06 Artrell Hawkins CB thigh questionable for Sun 9/17.
9/17/06 Chad Jackson WR hamstring questionable for Sun 9/17.
9/17/06 Nick Kaczur T shoulder questionable for Sun 9/17.
9/17/06 Garrett Mills TE flu questionable for Sun 9/17.
9/10/06 Tom Brady QB right shoulder Probable for Sun 9/10.
9/10/06 Tedy Bruschi LB wrist questionable for Sun 9/10.
9/10/06 Doug Gabriel WR hamstring Probable for Sun 9/10.
9/10/06 Chad Jackson WR hamstring questionable for Sun 9/10.
9/10/06 Nick Kaczur T shoulder questionable for Sun 9/10.
9/10/06 Stephen Neal G ankle Probable for Sun 9/10.
9/3/06 Barry Gardner LB Leg On IR. Out for the season.
9/3/06 Tebucky Jones S Leg On IR. Out for the season.
8/7/06 Mel Mitchell S Arm On IR. Out for the season.

I just counted them... it's 8 more injuries for the Pats, but yet they are still a playoff team.

Fair enough Top, How many on the NE list on IR are starters or top draft picks expected to start or compete for a starting position?

Also, How many of NE's list are people that were depth for starters that went on IR?

Just by looking over New England's list I didn't feel like doing the math, but it looks to me like the Patriots have had more "Important" personnel banged up then us...

Maybe because they have more "important" people?? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

LOL...

Not only have a lot of our top starters been banged up but so have most of the decent depth (which isn't much). We don't have enough depth to overcome injuries, obviously the Pats have quality depth. Also, I think we reached an injury settlement with William Green and he's no longer with us.

lol, that was gonna be my exact reply, hehe.


We're a young team that is thin on talent... when an injury hits, we don't have much of anything to step into the void. It's just a part of the process. Keep replacing the starters with better starters and shift your old starters to being backups..... that and lots of solid picks on Day 2 and shortly injuries won't be as much of a factor for us in the coming seasons. It's just a painful wait getting to that point.

I agree that NE, has quality depth, but we all need to remember that it took them years to get to this level, it really wasn't that long ago when NE was the laughing stock of the league...

I think you guys are kinda making my point.. When we got injuries.. they were to key people and we didn't have the depth to carry on like other teams do.

Thats longer than Snoop dogs, criminal record.... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The Bengals just stomped us with 3 starting OL out with injuries.

Most of the "questionables" wind up playing.

Up until we lost Tucker, the only 2 others of note on IR were Bentley, Baxter and Cutch.

Yeah...but I don?t konw any team in the NFL that had to play roster filler-CBs against Hines Ward and Chad Johnson either....for most of the season the Browns were without their No. 1-3 CBs....take that away from any NFL team PLUS starting C, RT...mixed in with missing most experienced DL (Roye) and LB (McG) for every second game...and I wanna see them play: imagine the Colts w/out Saturday, Diem, Harper, Jackson, Nickel-CB (J.David)...and June and Freeney missing lots of games/playing injured...I don?t say they would be 3-8 like us...but they?d suck and would miss the POs playing our schedule....I?m pretty sure about that


I just can?t believe what happened to all our supposed "impact players" the last 3-4 years:

Baxter ACL both knees
Bentley ACL
S.Jones ACL
Edwards ACL
Winslow ACL (twice wasn?t it?)

That kind of "luck" to any team and they would have a hard time....I mean, when your top-FA and draft guys get hurt (like this in particular) as a franchise you just have problems guaranteed

Look at the "luck guys" from PIT:

Roethli crashed? Oh no? Back week 1
Pola "significant knee" injury? he?ll be back in 2 weeks

I don?t want to see any player on any team get hurt...esp. ACLs...but some get away with "normal" injuries when rashing into a car without a helmet and some get torn ACLs on both knees on a normal diving attempt (Baxter) or ACL on 1st play w/out pads in TC (Bentley) ....that?s just bad luck, it?s not anybodys fault <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Yes, they did.. obviously they have back ups that are competent.



Well duh, thats why I bolded the Out for seasons...


My point was that the major problem is that if we lose our starters.. we lose. We don't have the depth.

The point of my posting this was to show that in the case of the Browns, if the varsity is in the hospital, we ain't gonna win games. Other teams seem to get by don't they? Top helped my case by pointing out the Patriots.. with a "equal" injury basis they are playoffbound.. the only answer to that is depth.

I understand ... but I'm sick to death of the injury excuse too. I just want this team to finally reach a point where they can play ........ with a chance to win ........ every week ....... even with a couple of key guys out.

I'm tired of excuses. I want my team to stop making excuses and just go out and put a winning product on the field.

YTown..

Bud.. Trust me.. I'm fed up too.. I wanted results yesterday.

I am merely trying to remind people what we have to work with. Some of our critical components.. our varsity if you will, are in the hospital.

Let me say it again, if your varsity is in the IR ward of the Cleveland Clinic, you will not win. The only way out of that is depth. We do not have depth. Therefore, the double whammy of the IR and scrubs for depth killed us this year.

Quite frankly I am surprised at myself for being so up the week before camp at Berea. I knew better than that, I should have looked deeper and seen the lack of NFL caliber depth.

Thats not an injury excuse.. that what happened.

are you kidding me???? that was 10 years ago they went to the SB in 96 and for the life I have known them... (25 years) we have been a more of a sorry team then them by far! I'll share with you the stats of the past 20 years. While you are reading this tell me... what years were you talking about?

Here are the Patroits stats:

85 finished 11-5 went to the SB
86 finished 11-5 playoffs
87 finished 8-7
88 finished 9-7
89 finished 5-11
90 finished 1-15
91 finished 6-10
92 finished 2-14
93 finished 5-11
94 finished 10-6 playoffs
95 finished 6-10
96 finished 11-5 played in the SB
97 finished 10-6 playoffs
98 finished 9-7
99 finished 8-8
00 finished 5-11
01 finished 11-5 won SB
02 finished 9-7
03 finished 14-2 won SB
04 finished 14-2 won SB
05 finished 10-6 playoffs

They have had one losing season in 10 years
They have had 7 losing seasons in 20 years

They have appeared in the playyoffs in 1985, 1986, 1994, 1996, 1997, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005

They have been in the Super Bowl 5 times in 20 years 85 96 01 03 05


Here is the Browns stats:

85 finished 8-8 playoffs
86 finished 12-4 playoffs
87 finished 10-5 playoffs
88 finished 10-6 playoffs
89 finished 9-6-1playoffs
90 finished 3-13
91 finished 6-10
92 finished 7-9
93 finished 7-9
94 finished 11-5 playoffs
95 finished 5-11
99 finished 2-14
00 finished 3-13
01 finished 7-9
02 finished 9-7 playoffs
03 finished 5-11
04 finished 4-12
05 finished 6-10


we have had one winning season in 10 years

we have had 11 losing season in 20 years and if you want to get technical since we didn't play 3 years... *Just For this example* You can go back to 84 finished 5-11 83 finished 9-7 and 82 doesn't count (4-5) {still losing season} and 81 finished 5-11 lol which would bring us to 13 of the last 20 seasons we have played they have been losing seasons.

We have appeared in the playyoffs in
1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1994, 2002 that's 2 times in 15 years. (granted we had a 3 years off)

*Side note* Since everyone ripps on the Bengals... The Bengals have had 8 winning season in the past 20 years while we have only had 7. The history is only going to get worse for us because after this year we will have only 6 winning season in 20 years... Ouch that is painful!!!!


So... you tell me when were the Patroits are sorry in comparison to how we have been in 20 years or even seasons in the NFL? I think we are replacing the Bengals or your opinion of the Pat's.

Now... I know we arn't as bad as AZ with 2 winning season in 20 years but if we don't turn the ship around by 09 we will be just as bad... with only 2 winning season.

I don't care if the whole starting unit is out....i just want us to win <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I just threw up re-reading my post...

I'm curious, I wonder if there is a way to spread sheet all NFL OLinemen by team by date the way we did on this thread and correlate that to winning games?

For example: That would answer the question of how many OLinemen did Ben lose last year versus the games they won..

I'm told, the squealers had the same Oline from the right to the left all year.. I don't know if thats true, but it occurs me to that helps a hell of a lot.

Actually, it's:

Baxter - Patellar Tendon both knees
Bentley - Patellar Tendon
S.Jones - ACL
Edwards - ACL
Winslow - Everything and then some and even a few pieces that aren't normally found in a knee <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

The key injuries were to Bentley, Cutch and Baxter for the long term...and Bodden. Green was probably not in the plans anyway. By the time Tucker's problems started the season was hopeless.

Most of the injuries were on the D, which has been the better unit.
The injuries are not the excuse this year, it's the guys we HAVE that aren't getting the job done...especially on offense.

We've got to give the organization another offseason to fill more holes...and to let JD get HIS offense set up and running.

Shifting gears - my son was born in '86. Today over dinner he's got the sports page out on the table and mentions the article about Crennell (quite a thing to see something in the Providence Journal about the Browns).
He starts spouting off how the Browns stink and have never won anything...So, I tell him that they were the team of the decade in the '50's. And he says that it wasn't even the NFL then. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes_devil.gif" alt="" /> And it's no use argueing with him (or his age) because he/they don't think anything pre SuperBowls matter at all. And ya know what? (how many sentences am I going to start with 'and') He's right. We haven't been respectable in so looong that it doesn't even matter anymore. The Kosar era is ancient history now. We've got nothing to hang our hats on. We've got no respectability. We're a floundering franchise changing regimes every few years.
We've got to start doing it right.
We've got to start getting young tallent for the OL & DL (and all positions) so we can start bringing them along and work them in with the veterans when guys get hurt. FA in general is a stop gap way of doing things.
Every team is going to have injuries, you've got to have enough tallent in the other positions to carry the load and enough tallent as backups so that an injury doesn't leave you esentially playing 10 guys.

Ok, one name that the Browns list is missing is Bob Hallen. He was never injured or put on IR, but he went AWOL on the team after Bentley's injury and he's who was supposed to step into Bentley's spot.

Just another name to throw on top of our pile...

Hate to say it, but man did Hallen make a smart move. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

j/c

Depth is always such an issue with this team.

We all know the history of our return to the NFL. Bad choices were made, a stupidly assembled, ill-prepared team was fielded, and the real solutions were never adequately addressed.

That's no way to build the kind of depth needed to "just keep plugging along" when one of your starters goes down.

Injuries are going to hurt us more, because we've never established a true base ... on either side of the ball. That's also probably why Special Teams is our most consistent, satisfying squad to watch, at present.

The day when we can "just plug in players" on O or D is still 3-4 years away... with the same basic folks in place at the top. That means on-the-field and off.

Since '99, we've done everything under the sun except for one thing... build a damn team. That takes 4 years minimum, from Absolute Square One- which is pretty much where we were just 18 months ago. 4 years- if all goes well. Really well.

Until we establish a core team for more than 3 years, injuries will always hit us harder than it should. They will continue to cost us games, and down the line-might even cost us a playoff berth/win. Chalk it up to 'growing pains,' but it's true... for us, as well as every other team in the league. The NFL season is long and violent. 'Soldiers' are going to fall.


Dynasties (or their modern-day equivalents) are fuelled by depth.
Good teams have it. We still don't.




Sometimes, when the patient is sick, the only thing- the best thing he can do- is "take his medicine" and wait.
The medicine almost never tastes good, and the waiting is always the hardest part.



.02

He did, but he basically left this team high and dry. Just glad that Hank Fraley was available to us. He's definitely done a good job filling in that spot and would love to see him get re-signed here. Especially since it seems that Bentley will probably miss all of 2007 as well, if more surgery really is needed.

Welcome to the club. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

We all are.

But in the Browns case it's not so much excuses as it is reasons. If we have a really good player at a position, with very little talent for backup, if he goes down the team suffers greatly. Lose several good players to injury, being forced to play their inferior backups, and the team is in a state of disaster.

If we are ever going to reach the point where injuries are really no longer a reason for dismal play, we have to wait until the roster is upgraded overall. This team needs talent most of all.

After tearing the team down, Savage has had two offseasons to aquire upgrades. That's not a lot of time by NFL standards. He made a great point in his presser, as many have here on the board, in that there are very few drafted players from 1999 to 2004 left on this team. Six years of wasted draft picks.

The draft is where the core of this team should have come from and yet, after six years, it had no core of solid players. It still doesn't.

He once said that you need three playmakers on each side of the ball. On defense I see Bodden and Jones with the possible addition of Wimbley as the playmakers there. Not bad really. A cornerback, safety and a linebacker. Good place to start.

On offense I see K2 and, well, we have to reach after that. Looking for potential, rather than actual success. There is potential in Edwards, Frye and possably in some others, but it won't be recognized, let alone realized, until the we get stronger at the point of attack.

LeCharles Bentley would have gone a long way toward solidifying the LOS, but even a probowler at one position on the line could not do it all on his own. His injury is a perfect example of a reason rather than an excuse. When a player goes down and we have to go through eight more players to find someone suitable enough to play it's a testiment that the depth is lacking.

So, if we are willing to wait and Savage can continue to pick players like Wimbley, (just think if we would have had one like that out of the first round each year since 1999), we will reach the point where a couple of injuries won't spell disaster for the whole organization.

Until then, if we are tired of waiting, we are just going to have to be content with being tired. I am tired too and don't relish the prospects of staying that way for another couple of years, but I'm afraid that's where it's at.

[color:"orange"]Our IR list is not that big as in years past...I think the value of some of the people are of course big.

But if you look most of those are training camp IR stuff on kids who probably wouldn't make the team.
Mayer LaSeur
Minter we knew about and that was PUP list
Bentley was a shame as were McCutch n Baxter.

The Tucker thing is non-football related Kelley was not a big time player but doing well.

As for the entire list...thats the way of RAC - any hangnail will be listed with the same gravity as a sprained knee. Most of those players played even though they were listed all week as questionable.

Now that the season is winding down...we might see IR list increasing and eventually totalling the Mega numbers of IR under Butch and Palmer but if memory serves me...by mid-season we were like record IR levels. Now we get equally injured but seem to be able to work through the injuries.

As for losing? Not the numbers just the who.

Best OL investment maybe EVER in the history of the Browns...1st day of TC was a mental blow to the fans and started a series of turmoil as we thought we had depth covered but the idiot Haley bailed on us. But on a whole we have fared better for the IR list than in pre-Lott years.

JMHO - injuries is part of the NFL as you get better as a team...depth is a big part, we've never got the first level done to work on depth with much degree.

I hope you didn't spend alot of time creating this post, it's interesting if your into stats, but I just know about what I witnessed...


I lived in Boston during this time period and pretty much watched this happen... Bad ownership to go along with bad coaches, add to the fact that the Patriots were not even the main sports team in New England, their fanbase faded... Basically not many cared about them

It took new ownership and Bill Parcells to get that franchise where it is today if that didn't happen, who knows where New England would be today...

Now how many people on here know that Belicheck puts as many people as possible on his injury report to mess with opponents? How many people realize that RAC came from that train of thought and does the same? Difference in teams:

Dillon and Maroney
Droughns, Wright and Harrison

Who here would trade our 3 for those 2? I know I would

Remember how we went through like 5centers even before the season begain? <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Mid-1998 season, there was talk of the Patriots moving to Hartford, Conn. of all places. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I thought the figure was 9 LOL..

<img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Every single team i'm rooting for this year in bunch of diff sports..is either #1 or in the top 10 or are about to win their respective final game of the season/ championship.....EVEN MY FANTASY football teams lol...

CEPT THE BROWNS! they consistantly suck every year....

Yep... Plus there were also other rumors as well, before Modell did what he did, there were also hints that the Patriots could go to Baltimore...

Boston is considered the main city for New England, and they even were shunned by the NFL when they had some big NFL Executive/Owners meeting, instead of doing it in Boston they did it in Providence, now I know that doesn't sound real big but it made a statement, since New England could be the team on the move... IIRC, it was all about ponying up some dough for the new staduim, which they got...

When the announcement of the Browns moving came along, the fans felt for us, but also were scared when they saw a team with such a historical background move, it freaked them out big time, basically the fanbase was saying, if a team like the Browns can move then we could too, and at a time were even rumored heading to Cleveland... Now they have the new staduim and a stable orgaization, it could have went down alot differently though...

Yes, the same old story.

2 years after they were in the SB? Did you see my post above? It has their history since 85 and ours..

96 finished 11-5 played in the SB
97 finished 10-6 playoffs
98 finished 9-7

Your stats or "history" as you call it doesn't prove anything... It's just numbers it doesn't show any fact... Sorry but your numbers are crap... I was their and seen what transpired, something numbers can't do...