DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum College Football Part 2

Totally agree.

His footwork, ability to read a defense, bait the safeties, and then make the throw is amazing. Very mobile in the pocket. Strong arm. Knows how to put touch on the ball...

I'd give up both first rounders for him.

He is impressive. A real good game, nothing not to like about him.

Hopefully people understand the Teddy hype now. Dude put on a clinic.

I would love for Teddy to be on the board when the Browns pick. I still do not know about giving up 2 #1 picks or more to get him.

Is he worth it? He is the best QB prospect coming out this year that is for sure. I just do not know if anyone other than Manning, Brady, and Luck would be worth it. He is good but that good? I just do not know.

After the what is happening in Washington a move like that gives me pause.

I have said before that I would give up 2 1st to get Teddy. I would presume teams would prefer our 1st this year and next rather than 2 from this year. Either way, if that is all it takes then I do it in a heartbeat and don't look back.

Question is: Will it take more than that? I don't know how much more I would give. But I would definitely consider both this year's 2 1st and next years 1st. That just feels like a lot. Damn Redskins screw us twice with one trade.

As for pause from the RGIII trade. I understand it. Personally I never wanted us to make that trade. I din't like RGIII's demeanor for one - something about him rubs me the wrong way. Secondly I felt he was an injury waiting to happen. He already had the one bad knee injury at Baylor.

Having said that, he isn't a bust. He had a very good rookie season before the injury. I think he came back too soon. If he plays like he did his rookie season for the next 5 years then it isn't a bad trade. If you remember, there was some pretty heavy debate over who should be the rookie of the year last season. Mostly between Luck, Wilson and RGIII.

If you call the RGIII trade a bad trade regardless then my question is how many past mistakes do you avoid. This trade was too much. But even if we had the #1 overall because of record don't take him because JaMarcus Russell was a mistake? IF he fall to the Indy pick, still don't take him because Weeden was a bust? Where does it stop?

There would be no pause if he was available in the Browns slot. If we had the #1 pick it would not be a question in my mind.

I still think RG3 is a good player. My problem with that trade is the Redskins mortaged the future for him and that team has quite a few of other problems.

If you are 100% certain this kid is the franchise talent the team needs by all means pull the trigger and trade 2 1st round picks. I would not go any further than that. The New York Giants traded a 2004 1st, and 3rd + a 2005 1st and 5th to San Diego to get Eli Manning. that has worked for 2 super bowl titles so there is histroy on the side of making the trade. The question is; Is Teddy Bridgewater as good as Eli Manning?

I love watching Michigan lose. Kansas State is treating them like the 3rd tier program that they have become. They have been a joke since they thought Lloyd Carr was holding the program back. Whoops

Starting to look like another strong showing by the Big Ten in bowl season Minnesota lost, Michigan getting beat.

Heck Maryland and Rutgers are fitting right in since they both lost to.

and, who really cares? i get the SOS argument, but the selection committee should do a better job at distinguishing SOS for that season (at least we can hope). so, the bowl showing does little other than show how far some of these teams still have to go by next season.

regardless, I love seeing Brady (C)Hoke's team get destroyed.

Personally I am not a big Eli fan. He had some tremendous games in the NYG's run to their super bowl championships. When he is on a hot streak he can be as good as an nfl Qb gets but he has way too many bad games. Many of which cost his teams games.

So yes, I would prefer Teddy to Eli.

The following players are Qb's I would prefer over Bridgeater (going off my head so forgive me if I miss one or 2).

Obviously Brady, Brees and Rodgers.
Peyton a few years ago but given his age I wouldn't trade multiple picks for him.

Roethlisberger from a talent standpoint (ie removing the douche factor)
Luck, Wilson and Cam.

For debate would be Flacco, Rivers, Ryan, Foles (he is performing much better than expected. Is this an aberration or is he that good?), Romo, Stafford, Kaepernick though I am not sold on him. WHile debateable, I probably prefer Bridgewater to all of these guys.

I definitely prefer Teddy over Dalton, Tannehill, Manuel, Alex Smith and Geno Smith, Vick.

That is a list of 21 Qb's. I think the others are self evident because I would probably take 'peen over most of them (unless I egregiously missed someone).

Bill Snyder is an incredible coach. Just incredible how he manages to win year in and year out. It'll be a sad day for college football when he retires.

JC

I really like the idea of us getting Tre Boston. He played great against Cinci minus two plays where he didn't make a tackle on the Wildcat QB. His coverage was sound and he's always in the right place at the right time.

I like Tre Boston, but he looked more like a SS to me, but a good selection if we let Ward go.

As for Teddy: he looked "strange" throwing yesterday at the start of the game. Not sure what it was, just that his compact style delivery looked odd....but it worked, so who cares, right?

I would give up both 1sts for him too. The key and only shot for us to get him though is named Jay Cutler. If the Texans decide to sign him and take multiple draft picks over Bridgewater, I think that would make the most sense for them considering their current roster that is good enough to win now.

Problem is, the cost could be much higher than that with JAX, OAK and othes in the bidding, but we're the only team that can offer two 1sts in 2014, so we'd be in the driver's seat

j/c

One point I believe that is worth considering......

If you look at contracts like Flacco's, teams that pay FA money verses draft picks under the new draft structure, it makes a lot of sense for teams to draft a QB instead of signing a FA.

If it were an option of drafting Bridgewater or signing Cutler, the money you would save in the salary cap, would allow you to sign a couple of top FA's in other positions easily.

So going down one avenue, you save a ton of cap room. The other avenue you gain draft picks. With the new rookie cap, suddenly drafting a QB sounds a lot more interesting than gaining picks. At least I believe it does.

I think time will tell how this all plays out. Somebody will overpay for Cutler. But I don't see Houston going down that road.

I have never had much knowledge about trade values in the draft. I do wonder if the Washington trade will ever happen again. I think teams will not offer that much again. But again, I really don't get all that stuff.

So, how much would we have to give up if we move up from 4th or 5th to get the first pick? Do they still use that Draft Value Chart or whatever it was called?

What I do know is this: I would give up a ton for Teddy. Smartest qb around. He is like Manning, Rodgers, and Luck in regards to football intelligence.

Quick release. Hits guys in stride. His deep ball accuracy is off a bit, but not terrible. He looks off the safeties better than just about anyone. He is mobile in the pocket and can run the ball. He even runs smart. He's so calm in the pocket.

He can take huge hits and bounce up. Did you guys see the pregame and they showed the hit the guy from Florida put on him last year?

How about last nights play where he eluded two defenders and slung a perfect pass w/touch and in stride to a covered receiver?

Man, this guy is worth trading up for!!!

I don't know if it was because he was playing Miami which was his childhood team that brought out the emotion in his game last night, But, I saw alot more fire in him than other times I have watched him play. I was really impressed.

Gil Brandt thinks the Browns are in good position to trade up - if - Houston is interested in a FA QB (Cutler) and Manziel. If Bridgewater is everything we think he is, I think the Browns should do whatever it takes to get him.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000...anziel-in-draft

Texans could target Teddy Bridgewater, Johnny Manziel in draft

By Gil Brandt
NFL.com NFL Media senior analyst
Dec. 19, 2013

The 2014 NFL Draft will have more interesting potential scenarios than any draft I can remember. There are so many factors involved right now -- cap space, teams with extra draft picks, veteran QBs that will be available, major underclassmen that have yet to declare -- that could affect which teams select where, which players go to which teams or how early or late certain prospects will be selected.

Cap space was a major factor last season, when Kansas City had the money to add veteran QB Alex Smith via trade and took OT Eric Fisher with the No. 1 overall pick. It's likely to be a big factor in the 2014 draft, too.

The Texans would have the No. 1 pick if the season ended today, and depending on various scenarios involving their quarterbacks, they could have $13.5 million or $19.5 million in cap space. The teams with the No. 3 and No. 4 picks, Oakland and Jacksonville, each have more than $50 million of cap space for next year.

Each of those teams needs a quarterback, and each has the money to go after a veteran like Jay Cutler, or maybe someone like Matt Moore, Michael Vick or Josh McCown. If I'm the Texans, Raiders or Jaguars, I'm looking to take a QB with my first pick, but I'm also looking to sign a veteran who could mentor the rookie.

Other intriguing factors for the draft include the Rams holding the No. 2 overall pick from the Robert Griffin III deal; upcoming decisions by star underclassmen such as Teddy Bridgewater and Johnny Manziel; the Cleveland Browns, with the extra picks they have acquired, being a prime candidate to trade up; the bowl-game and combine performances of prospects like Jadeveon Clowney and Derek Carr; and of course, how the remaining two weeks of the NFL season affect the draft order.

As we head into Week 16 in the NFL, and bowl season in college football, here is how I see the teams with the top six picks approaching the 2014 draft:

1. Houston Texans
The Texans won't have as much cap space as Kansas City last offseason when it had the top pick, but they've got enough to go out and sign a veteran QB in free agency and use their top pick to draft a young signal-caller to groom. The key is they wouldn't have to throw a rookie into the fire because they have the money to acquire a veteran who can be a bridge for one or two seasons.

If he enters the draft as expected, Louisville junior Teddy Bridgewater is an obvious possibility for the Texans. But they could also try to move down if there's a willing trade partner. Let's say it's Cleveland, which would probably like to take a quarterback and has two first-round picks (No. 6 and 24 if the season ended today), a second-rounder and two third-rounders in 2014. Houston might consider trading down with the Browns, sign a veteran QB and draft a quarterback like Fresno State's Derek Carr or maybe Texas A&M's Johnny Manziel. Carr will be an interesting name in the draft, and a lot can change over the next few months, beginning with his performance in the Dec. 21 Las Vegas Bowl against USC and continuing into the combine.

2. St. Louis Rams (from Washington)
The Rams already have some pretty good players in place and a very good defensive line, led by Robert Quinn and Chris Long. I think they will be looking to trade down, and Cleveland has the ammunition and the need for a quarterback to come up and get the Rams' pick.

I'm a Sam Bradford fan, and I think the Rams are, too. But the Rams have to start thinking about acquiring a backup or a young QB to bring along. This draft will have a lot of good quarterbacks, so this is probably a need the Rams can address in the third or fourth round.

A few quarterbacks likely to be available for the Rams in Rounds 3-4 are Georgia's Aaron Murray, San Jose State's David Fales, Miami's Stephen Morris and -- here's a curveball -- Cornell's Jeffrey Matthews.

If the Rams do end up trading down and hold off on taking a QB early, they could go for a young cornerback like Justin Gilbert of Oklahoma State or Darqueze Dennard of Michigan State.

3. Oakland Raiders
The Raiders' primary objective should be to get a quarterback, and like Houston, they have the cap space (about $63 million) to go out and get a veteran QB like Cutler.

But this is a team that needs help at almost every position and could use as many picks as it can get. They need defensive linemen and defensive backs, and they need to add an offensive lineman, although they have a couple of young guys who are solid in Stefen Wisniewski and Jared Veldheer. The Raiders have a lot of needs -- that's why they have so much cap space.

One possibility is to trade down to accumulate draft choices, possibly with Cleveland, which again, will probably be looking to take a quarterback and has two first-rounders, a second-rounder and a third-rounder in 2014.

Whoever ends up trading down, though, will probably have to face comparisons to what St. Louis received in the Robert Griffin III deal. If you give up the No. 3 overall pick and don't get enough in return, you can bet the local media and your fans will want to know why you didn't get as much as the Rams did when they traded down two years ago.

4. Jacksonville Jaguars
If the Jaguars want a quarterback here, they'll be in position to take one because they have a solid veteran quarterback already in Chad Henne.

If they end up moving down a few spots, this is another team -- knowing what a good defensive coach Gus Bradley is -- that would probably like to take a really good pass rusher. For the Jaguars, that could conceivably be Clowney or UCLA OLB Anthony Barr.

Again, who the Jaguars take and what position they target will hinge on a lot of factors -- who is available, how many of the top underclassmen will be coming out, whether they trade down, etc. There are a lot of unknowns right now, and a lot of things that could change.

Clowney will have a lot of eyes on him from now until draft day, especially from teams like the Jaguars. There will be more NFL scouts in attendance at the Capital One Bowl than any other this bowl season. They'll be watching how Clowney fares against a solid Wisconsin offensive line. It will be an opportunity to convince evaluators he's better than he showed in the first half of the season.

5. Atlanta Falcons
In Matt Ryan, the Falcons have their quarterback of the future. Atlanta's biggest need right now is probably a pass rusher, which has become a problem since the Falcons let go of John Abraham. With the No. 5 pick, they probably have a chance to get Clowney or Barr.

Clowney did not play well at the beginning of the year, but if you watched South Carolina's game against Missouri late in the season, he looked more like the guy we all expected him to be. In football, there's no greater lie detector than the game tape. A player can have all the press clippings in the world that say he's the No. 1 pick, but when you throw the game tape on, it tells teams exactly what they're getting. I think Clowney, as the season progressed, either improved his conditioning or started to realize it's not what people say about him, it's how well he performs.

Let's assume the Falcons shore up their defense and go with Clowney or Barr with this pick. They already have their QB, but still have a big need for a left tackle. There will be a lot of strong tackles in this draft, and the Falcons will probably be able to get one in the second round. It could be Auburn's Greg Robinson if he comes out, or possibly Texas A&M's Cedric Ogbuehi.

6. Cleveland Browns
The Browns are already pretty good. They have just four wins this season but have an excellent coaching staff and a lot of talented players, like left tackle Joe Thomas, cornerback Joe Haden and defensive lineman Phil Taylor. With some QB help, they can be a factor next year.

This is a well-run organization that has the money ($40 million in cap space) and the ammunition with all of those draft picks. Who they end up taking with their first pick is difficult to project now because: 1) The Browns could trade up with a team like Houston or Oakland, and 2) we don't know yet which players will be there. Is it Bridgewater? It could very well be, but we don't know yet if he will declare for the draft.

Plan B for the Browns might be to trade back from this spot and take a quarterback like Fresno State's Derek Carr, like Buffalo did last season, when it traded back eight spots and took EJ Manuel and also received a second-round pick in the process.

Lot's of possibilities.......

A lot will depend on the new coaching staff but I'd be very surprised if Schaub is back in houston next year....

We're in a pretty good spot draft wise. We have the choice of 3 QBs or trading Clowney.

I just finished the Louisville/Miami game. I have every action play down for Bridgewater. He had two plays that were amazing, both on that last drive of the 1st half. Other than that, he was not very impressive throwing the ball. He was high or behind the receiver on almost every pass that wasn't a screen or a dump off. I'll post everything I wrote down once I'm not posting from my phone.

Teddy Bridgewater, to me, is someone who is much better at knowing what to do than being able to do it.

*edit* Well,that's not quite right. I'd say Bridgewater's biggest weakness is his accuracy. I saw it every game of his I watched all year and this one was not different.

Here are his pass plays:
1st Quarter
1. Didn't see CB blitz, took sack for safety.
2. Rollout, hit out route for 1st down.
3. Out route, thrown behind receiver (this became a recurring theme), adjustment and caught for 1st down.
4. Play-action, open TE in flat,caught for 1st down.
5. Scramble to avoid sack, found Parker (WR #9) open for first down
6. Missed/overthrew go route by 4 yards on a 20 yard route
7. Was high on out route, exposed WR to coverage, was dropped.
8. Recognized confused coverage pre-snap, hit hot slot receiver on slant.
9. Tons of time in the pocket, overthrew corner route to open TE. No pass rush.
10. 3rd & 15, stepped up in pocket,nobody open, hit FB for 6 yards allowing 43 yard FG.
11. 1st and 5, hit slant for 1st down.

2nd Quarter
12. Throwing to a stop route, deflected by DT.
13. Nicely timed WR screen, looked off to right, throw went to left.
14. Out/Flag route to TE, thrown behind receiver, TE was hit and dropped ball.
15. Multiple progressions, checked down to RB for 2 yards on 3rd and 3.
16. Stationary Parker 5 yards downfield complete, CB misses tackle.
17. Rollout, hit RB but thrown behind receiver again. RB got hurt getting hit turning back around after catch.
18. Strike to stationary Parker on stop route. Good timing.
19. Good throw on post... had 1:1 coverage, let Parker get inside corner to catch TD.
20. Out route thrown behind receiver AGAIN, dropped, almost picked.
21. 2nd read, hits WR on shallow cross1 yard short of 1st down. WR had to stop for ball (read: thrown behind receiver) and was tackled immediately.
22. Throw to covered Adams broken up by Gunter.
23. 1:35 left in quarter, throw to WR over the middle for 3 yard gain.
24. !!!! Scramble out of pocket, hit improvised corner route to #7. Beautiful touch on the move. Superb play.
25. Stop route to #7. Complete for 7 yards.
26. Slant thrown VERY HIGH to Parker (had to jump for it) but complete.
27. !!!! Post-corner route TD. Again, very nice touch.

3rd Quarter:
28. Threw behind on a route that looks like a circle route but from the WR alignment. WR had tostop to catch the ball instead of catching in stride. After the pass, Bridgewater seemed upset the WR turned to take the ball back the other way, but it's because he had to stop for it.
29. Designed wheel route, complete
30. PA go-route, underthrownjump ball. Parker vs. Gunter, incomplete.
31. WR screen, big gain. Bad tackling, good blocking.
32. Bootleg TE drag, good pump fake to neutralize blitzer to complete pass.
33. Found RB checkdown on circle after 1st read covered (+8 yd)
34. Middlescreen to RB #32 Perry, nice power for 30 yard TD.
35. Underthrew Parker who had Gunter beaten by a full step. Underthrow allowed Gunter to break up pass.
36. Complete out route to slot receiver who had LB matched up on him (either 1st read or pre-snap read) for 14 yards, first down.
37. PA Rollout, hit Parker on drag route.

4th Quarter
38. Dump off to RB who turned it into 20 yard gain.
39. Complete to Copeland (WR #7) who ran a drag and had stopped over the middlefor 3 yard gain on 2nd and goal from the 8.
40. Bootleg run for TD.
41. Hit Parker on slant route from slot (was behind receiver again), nice catch.
42. On rollout, nice job avoiding sack, ran for +4.
43. Overthrew WIDE OPEN Copeland on post, but was under pressure
44. Go route jump ball won by Parker when CB stumbled just before pass arrived. CB was in position to make play on the ball before stumble.
45. Threw high to TE on slant. Jumped to catch ball and got lit up by LB on the way down. LB got called for targeting and ejected.
46. Complete on 5 yard out to right sideline on second read.
47. RB middle screen, no gain.
48. Rollout, hit Copeland on sideline.
49. Slant to WR #6, behind receiver nice twist back to catch and turned into a big gain.

The guy who impre

Finally watched Fresno St vs San Jose St...

Fales: high release point, very comfortable throwing on the run. Really tough to say how good he was from this game because almost every play in the first half was the same... Press man coverage from Fresno state with no safety help. Fales kept throwing to the outside receivers, on-target, and his receivers were winning the adjustments. Saw him staring down his receivers a couple times that led to some dangerous passes. Did not make pre snap adjustments in this game. Noticed a few times but there was one play in particular where the SS came up to the line and he just snapped the ball and let the running back run right into him for a loss. Threw to 1st read almost entire game. 1st throw to second read happened with 5 min left in the third quarter. Missed badly on a couple deep throws... an open post overthrown and missed on a corner route just before half. In second half there were some more interesting routes where a lack of anticipation was clear... All the throws were coming out after the receiver made their break. Even on a deep out. He has enough arm, but not enough arm to lack anticipation. More Jeff Garcia than Brett Favre.

Carr: His feet were all over the place. By far the biggest weakness in his game. He made adjustments at the line, switched up plays. Identified San Jose CB #25 King as the weak link and picked on him all day. Went through multiple reads on some plays, throwing to second and third reads. Good enough accuracy on deep ball to let his receivers make a play, but is at his best when he can throw ropes. Showed anticipation throwing ball before receivers came out of breaks. Was short on one deep ball at end of third. Showed very good scrambling ability... Carr, Bridgewater, and Manziel all have this in this draft. Release speed is good. Of course has great velocity on passes. One interesting anecdote, team got ball on their own 16 with 16 seconds left in the half. Carr clearly wanted them to go after it. Three plays later, he hits his star WR in the facemask in the end zone, but it's dropped.

Other things noted from the game:
San Jose St CB Bene Bewikere is a bad tackler. Missed tackles several times where couldn'teven get hands on the guy whether it was Davante Adams or the RB or Isaiah Burse.
San Jose St ILB Keith Smith looked not particularly good in coverage or tackling most of the game, then made a nice pick on a pass intended for Adams.
San Jose St WR Chandler Jones had good speed and quickness all game, made a special teams tackle, reliable go-to guy but did fumble the ball once.

Fresno St WR Davante Adams is a physical freak. Dangerous habits though as he likes to give up yards to try to get more yards downfield after catch. Was successful more often than not.

Why do people like Johnny Manziel as an NFL QB? I like his athletcism, but that's it. If you say "well he did it against the SEC." Want me to name some former SEC QBs that produced but suck in the pros?

- Deep passes hang on him. He has arm strength to put good zip on short and intermediate routes. However. his deep passes hang on him or rainbow at times.

- Doesn’t step up to escape blindside pressure. Often plays Madden- runs backwards until he can chuck it deeper than he needs to rather than rolling from pressure or stepping up while still trying to pass.

- Overthrows or throws high a little too often, especially when scrambling. He lets his receivers highpoint the ball, which is good, but often does so at the expense of potential YAC- or leaves his receivers open for big hits.

- Occasionally pulls a Weeden- ie tosses a lame duck pass while under pressure either to throw the ball away or to a RB. Did it twice in two games, once it was incomplete the other time it was a Pick.

- Appears to get frustrated with good coverage. When he wants to throw, he’s going to throw. There were times when he would force the ball into coverage rather than trying to run and it led to picks because he doesn’t have the arm strength to force the ball into tiny windows

- Occasionally feels phantom pressure and gets happy feet.

- Runs with the ball far away from his body- so far hasn’t come back to bite him.

- Small frame.

- Has had his character questioned.

So because he's fun to watch...?

He runs around like a chicken with it's head cut off.

Oregon vs Texas in the Alamo Bowl tonight. Case McCoy will try to teach Marcus Mariota how the McCoys play QB - LOL. There's been some loose talk that Mariota might be re-thinking his decision to return to Oregon next year. He would be my pick if he came out, and Bridgewater was gone.

I agree but will not be surprised to see a Sumlin and Johnny as a package and reason for Chud's dismissal.

J/C...

Ka'Deem Carey reminds me of Trent Richardson actually. Needs a lot of help at the line of scrimmage, can break tackles in space with power and moves. Doesn't have breakaway speed.

I missed part of the game. I was watching Ohio State basketball.

I was wondering what your take on Carey was. What grade would you give him...in terms of which round should he be drafted?

Btw-------Stayed up to watch Marion Grice last night, but unfortunately, he sat out w/an injury.

surprised A&M would try a 54yd FG... duke put an easy 7 on the board... See if A&M can answer

Stupid decision. They should fire their head coach at halftime!

So is Duke's QB coming out?

Boone is a redshirt Junior. Haven't hard anything about him coming out or staying but man he sure looks good tonight doesn't he. Of course the A&M defense if pretty putrid.

One thing that would worry me is that this is his 1st year as the starter. But he is big and strong and looks smart and accurate.

A&m's defense