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Justin Blackmon going into the 2012 draft, this guy was without question the best WR in the draft. He had and continues to have character question marks. Right now, he might be one of the best WR's in the league that no one cares about because he is playing in Jacksonville. He's put up 326 yards in two games this season. Doing this on only 19 catches with a quarterback carousel down in Jax. How did he set us back? For some of you it might be obvious. We traded up to grab Trent Richardson over this guy who would have certainly been there. Many talent evaluators had us taking Blackmon and I doubt anyone would have complained as we horribly needed WR help. Currently Blackmon has more yards on 73 less touches, 73!! So, not only did we get a far inferior player but we traded up to do it. Ouchie #1 As many of you know (or wish you didn't  ) we drafted Blackmons counterpart in our old friend Brandon Weeden. Now, aside from the fact that this guy was a Fred Biletnikoff winner, if you watched any of their games, he was without question Weedens security blanket. he made catches on throws that had no business being caught in big time and critical situations. Ouchie #2 So when it comes out in the wash, only 2 short years later this guy hurt us real bad without even doing anything. He is more talented than both of these guys put together. Now I'm not saying he didn't come with baggage, but who would you rather have right now, Blackmon or Richardson? He seems to be taking his sobriety seriously now from all reports and it is showing on the field. I'm not saying I'm some sort of football God, because I thought Richardson was the right pick, but I don't get paid for this. I'm not immersed in the NFL and College as a full time job. We evaluated that Oklahoma State team about as poorly as one could possibly have done it and it hurt us BAD. We also traded out of Julio Jones to get Weeden but now I'm just rubbing salt in my own wound. Ouchie #3 Just food for thought, this guy would be looking good in Brown right now. I didn't know where to put this rant so I just made a thread because I didn't see it being discussed.
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Legend
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I had such high hopes for the 2011 draft ... and I'll never forget two things:
1. Hearing on the radio that we traded up (multiple picks) to the Vikes so we could acquire Trent ... I was LIVID.
2. Seeing the camera pan onto Weeden right before our pick with him on the phone and Berman saying "could it be a QB for the Browns?" ... I broke my TV remote on the spot.
Two HORRIBLE decisions ... HORRIBLE
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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A particularly refreshing thread, BpG. Sincerely... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Well ..... we received (essentially) Weeden, Marecic, and Taylor.
Taylor is still a highly worthwhile player.
Blackmon has done far, far better than I would have thought .... yet the character concerns I was concerns about have arisen already. He was arrested for drunk driving right after being drafted. He's been suspended 4 games for substance abuse. He is talented. I would still pass on him.
The problem is .....Who would you have taken, if not Blackmon? I also liked Richardson. I figured that if we didn't have a dominating passing game, at least a dominating run game would help us win some games. Guess I was wrong there.
Many liked Doug Martin, but he has really dropped off from last year too. He has a rookie QB .... but regardless, he was so strong last year, and is average at best this year.
I liked the Weeden pick, mainly because it ended the Colt McCoy era, and that was a horribly ineffective time in our offensive (in more ways than one) history. Going through a season where we only managed to climb to 13 PPG by scoring against soft zones late in games was horrific.
Unfortunately, Weeden hasn't been a whole lot better. We did improve last year in scoring, but we have regressed this year. Weeden is definitely inconsistent at best right now. I am hopeful that the light comes on enough, as I have been saying, so that we can recoup some value in a trade. In retrospect, he was the wrong pick.
Schwartz is also looking like he could be on the way out. He was a decent pass blocker last year, but a below average run blocker. This year he struggles in both regards.
3 high picks, and limited value. No wonder we're in the position we're in.
Hopefully we do much better in the next draft.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The Richardson pick was a bust. I'm fine with saying it. The guy isn't doing anything with the Colts, and we are getting the same production from Willis McGahee (say that to yourself a few times).
I gave Trent the benefit of the doubt last year, because he played hurt, and he was money at the goal line. Unfortunately, he came into 2013 looking exactly the same as 2012. His feet look slow, his vision with reading blocks is below average, and both the Browns and Colts seem to not want to put him on the field during 3rd downs.
The cool thing is we got a mulligan on the pick. Even if the Colts win the Super Bowl, I'm fine with the trade.
Brandon Weeden is a different story. The pick is officially a bust. I think it's worse, because even most of us fans questioned the pick when it happened. We thought we were getting a guy who's age would not have been a factor, and maybe even a bit of a benefit because of the maturity. That maybe the wet-behind-the-ears period would be shorter because he would pick up the game faster. A year later, he's not. He's not the worst QB we've had, but it just seems that way because he has a pretty good team around him.
Mike Lombardi as we all know, blasted the pick when he was working with NFL Network. Then he was hired by the Browns and brought in Brian Hoyer who looked competent. He ran the offense. He inspired his teammates, and made them better.
Therefore, I have absolutely no issue with whatever he and the Browns decide to do. I feel like they will do the right thing about the position. That's all I can ask for right now.
A lot of people are blasting the team "for doing nothing" about the position, but really, it's a lose/lose whatever you do. Bringing in Josh Freeman probably wouldn't have done any good. I think training camp is so important, especially for that position.
We're going to have to suck it up, because Weeden nor Campbell is going to be able to get this team past 6-7 wins.
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j/c
After reading your post I couldn't help but think that Lombardi/Banner basically knew Weeden would stink ... but didn't want to take the PR hit to start Hoyer right away ... and then they had a good "excuse" to do so in Week 3 ... and all was right with the world ... until the ACL tear.
Now they basically are giving Weeden enough rope to hang himself and the fans will be 100% on board with trading up for whoever in May
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I badly wanted Blackmon over Richardson. I saw no point in taking a RB as high as we did. It was a terrible value pick. The Weeden pick made me livid. Just an incredibly stupid pick and Heckertt will be the subject of ridicule for the rest of his career for it.
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Quote:
j/c
After reading your post I couldn't help but think that Lombardi/Banner basically knew Weeden would stink ... but didn't want to take the PR hit to start Hoyer right away ... and then they had a good "excuse" to do so in Week 3 ... and all was right with the world ... until the ACL tear.
Now they basically are giving Weeden enough rope to hang himself and the fans will be 100% on board with trading up for whoever in May
Yeah, the writing was on the wall when these guys took over. I think Weeden was given a fair chance though. The scheme was better suited for him, he was basically handed the job.
I wasn't thrilled when we drafted him, but I always try to find the good in our draft picks. I think everyone deserves a fair chance, and he never won me over.
I fully admit to wanting Trent before the draft. If I could do it all over again, I'd take that guy down in Carolina (Kuechly). He'd be a fan favorite in Cleveland, no doubt about it.
A lot of people said we should have taken Tannehill, and while he's better than Weeden, I don't think he's a big time QB, and we'd be locked into giving him multiple years. At least with Weeden, we know right now we need to find a QB that's perfect for us.
What I mean by that is it's just my opinion, but I think you should only draft a QB in the first 10 picks if you are absolutely sure that's a guy who can be your QB for 10 years. It's such a hard position to project, and with the money/cap issues/negative feedback if you miss on the pick, it's just not worth it to draft someone mediocre.
Ryan Tannehill never said 10 year QB to me when the pre draft stuff as all going on.
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I badly wanted Blackmon over Richardson. I saw no point in taking a RB as high as we did. It was a terrible value pick. The Weeden pick made me livid. Just an incredibly stupid pick and Heckertt will be the subject of ridicule for the rest of his career for it.
I wanted Cliarborn/Blackmon and Martin in that order.
I also read many times that we ended up with Weeden because we were so set on Wright we had no backup pick in that range. Tenn wasn't expected to take him and it caused mass chaos and a huge reach.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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I also read many times that we ended up with Weeden because we were so set on Wright we had no backup pick in that range. Tenn wasn't expected to take him and it caused mass chaos and a huge reach.
I really hope that's not true, but I've heard the same thing.
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I also read many times that we ended up with Weeden because we were so set on Wright we had no backup pick in that range. Tenn wasn't expected to take him and it caused mass chaos and a huge reach.
I really hope that's not true, but I've heard the same thing.
I saw that reported as well.
I was all aboard for getting Claiborne and would have accepted Blackmon as a consolation prize. I did NOT want Trent, and I certainly did not want to trade up for anyone.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I was actually ok with the trade to get Trent. I always say if you like a guy that much go get him.
Hindsight being what it is, we didn't need to trade, and we probably should have gone in a different direction.
Although it is kind of funny in the same round, they did what they had to do to get Trent, then allegedly panicked and took a 29 year old QB.
Ahhhh, Mike Holmgren. I hope someone steals all of his money.
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j/c
Now they basically are giving Weeden enough rope to hang himself and the fans will be 100% on board with trading up for whoever in May
Maybe, maybe not.
The staff has some BIG decisions looming. The first being do they decide that Hoyer might be the guy and we don't draft a QB at all? No doubt it is a small sample, but from what i saw it might be a gamble to take and follow up with a 2nd or 3rd round QB.
The second is do they decide they don't need to trade up and allow the draft to move to them? If they fall in love with one guy, I suppose they move up. If they like 2-3, then maybe we stand our ground, or at least not jump in to a top 5 pick. There are enough good QBs in next years draft that one of them will be there mid round...and we will probably be picking a little higher than mid round....say maybe 10-12?
Where did the Steelers get Burger....maybe at 17 or so?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I fully expected Wright to be a candidate for the Bengals (17, 21), Bears (19), and Titans (20) and said as much in this forum. I said if the Bengals pick a CB or OL at 17 we need to call SD, CHI, TEN to try to move up if we wanted Wright. I bet with the Bears taking McClellan we could have moved up to get him for a 4th or 5th, had we not already traded away our tradeable picks to get Richardson. Ugh. I'm not even upset about it anymore.
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I'll simply say that I've had unhealthy man-crushes on only 2 players in the last few years:
LeSean McCoy
Justin Blackmon
I would be pretty pleased if we had both those guys.
Now, maybe McCoy wouldn't look as good here because it's a different system.
And, Blackmon has character and off-the-field issues. Hopefully he straightens up because I loved watching him at Okla. St.
That being said, we passed on Blackmon and then later used a 2nd round pick on Gordon, a guy with off-the-field issues as well.
Gordon vs. Blackmon might be somewhat of a wash. I can't say too much about Blackmon in the NFL because I haven't paid much attention since he went to Jax.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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There's really no reason we couldn't have had both. With my armchair GM hat on I had the Browns taking two WRs in the first round that year. It's not like there wouldn't be room for Blackmon on our roster right now. Maybe we wouldn't have traded for Bess, but if you could swap out Bess for Blackmon would you do it?
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Steelers took him at 11.
I say draft a QB anyway, and just give the team to Hoyer to start the year.
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Quote:
Steelers took him at 11.
I say draft a QB anyway, and just give the team to Hoyer to start the year.
nothing wrong with that...
see Bledsoe Brady
Farve Rodgers
Brees Rivers
I also remember Montana Young
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Practice Squad
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I''m with you as long as "their" guy is there and not just a guy. Draft someone you believe in and give the team to Hoyer until he gets hurt or the guy you drafted is ready.
With Hoyer on the team I don't feel there will be a desperation to start a rookie.
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Quote:
Steelers took him at 11.
I say draft a QB anyway, and just give the team to Hoyer to start the year.
Yeah ..... have a modest QB competition, but one that is determined early on. If the rookie comes in and outplays Hoyer, then he starts. If not, then Hoyer starts the year, and we hope that he is what we hope he is.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I''m with you as long as "their" guy is there and not just a guy. Draft someone you believe in
This is my sentiment ... I don't care WHAT it takes to get the guy. If it is Mariota and we need to give up the entire draft? Do it. If it is Boyd and we need to trade our 2nd and a 3rd to move up? Do it.
I'm tired of waiting for a QB
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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The staff has some BIG decisions looming. The first being do they decide that Hoyer might be the guy and we don't draft a QB at all? No doubt it is a small sample, but from what i saw it might be a gamble to take and follow up with a 2nd or 3rd round QB.
We have witnessed how a back up can come in and look great for a few games until opposing teams get film on them. While I believe Hoyer has some talent, I believe average QB play looked great to so many because our QB play has been so poor.
I don't see the play of Hoyer having any impact on drafting a QB in round 1.
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The second is do they decide they don't need to trade up and allow the draft to move to them? If they fall in love with one guy, I suppose they move up. If they like 2-3, then maybe we stand our ground, or at least not jump in to a top 5 pick. There are enough good QBs in next years draft that one of them will be there mid round...and we will probably be picking a little higher than mid round....say maybe 10-12?
There are a number of teams in need of a QB. Whether we will have to jump will depend a lot on where we land. I would find it hard to fathom that talent evaluators and this FO would just say "Give me any one of these four and we'll be fine."
I believe they will have a target and go after that target. The higher we are in the draft, the less we'll have to give up for a QB. I believe this FO understands the futility that has gone on here for so long. I believe they know the importance of getting that QB for the long haul the first time.
As such, I think they go big and punctuate this pick with the least amount of gamble as possible.
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Where did the Steelers get Burger....maybe at 17 or so?
Yes, and we got Weeden at 22.
It's possible to get a good QB later, that much is true. But with 32 FO's in this league, the longer you wait to try to acquire talent, the further down the odds go at landing that talent.
I simply don't want to end up with a QB who can net 8-12 W's a year and end up in mediocrity. I truly feel this FO doesn't wish to take such a gamble either. We are positioned to make a run for a big time QB and I hope we do.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
After reading your post I couldn't help but think that Lombardi/Banner basically knew Weeden would stink ... but didn't want to take the PR hit to start Hoyer right away ... and then they had a good "excuse" to do so in Week 3 ... and all was right with the world ... until the ACL tear.
My guess is that these two guys aren't worried much about the PR hit they may or may not have taken. I think that if they truly felt that Hoyer was better suited, they would have been stupid not to start him from the get go.
We lost the first two game largely because we couldn't move the ball on O. Same with the 6th game. (although the D didn't help a lot in the last game either)
I really believe that Banner on down are "best player plays" thinkers..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
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Steelers took him at 11.
I say draft a QB anyway, and just give the team to Hoyer to start the year.
nothing wrong with that...
see Bledsoe Brady
Farve Rodgers
Brees Rivers
I also remember Montana Young
A lot of people don't realize that Young was an 8 year vet before starting for the 9ers.
2 years USFL/LA Express
2 years TB Bucs
4 years on the bench behind Montana.
The Stools have their future sitting on the bench now............Landry Jones. Or is he? Haven't heard good, bad, or indifferent on him.
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Brandon Weeden is a different story. The pick is officially a bust. I think it's worse, because even most of us fans questioned the pick when it happened.
Umm, no? lol
Only because fans hated the pick THEN it makes it a bigger bust now? Nah. A busted 3rd overall (+ 3 other picks !) is WAY worse than a busted 22nd overall on a boom/bust QB (look at the QBs drafted in the past in that range, all either boomed like Flacco or Rodgers or busted like Freeman or Ponder).
Also, to continue the "hypocrisy" series going on here lately: I know for a FACT that well over half the board wanted us to draft DeCastro at 22, who is a bust RG for the OL-less Steelers. A busted RG pick is always worse than drafting a failed QB, who is still a decent backup (ask Bills fans) at least.
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Mike Lombardi as we all know, blasted the pick when he was working with NFL Network. Then he was hired by the Browns and brought in Brian Hoyer who looked competent. He ran the offense. He inspired his teammates, and made them better.
Mike Lombardi also hated the Gordon selection and iirc pretty much any Browns draft pre-2012, and we had good ones the 2 years before that. He also pimped a ton of busted QBs, pretty much a who's who list. Hoyer might be the biggest evaluation "value" he pimped and he ain't a fQB. Otoh, he pimped every crappy Steelers draft of the past years, who ended up complete duds and are the reason they suck right now. Bottom line: pretty much any AVG Joe on here has a better track record of pimping prospects than Lombardi.
I don't have much faith in the guy to make good picks. I actually hope Banner and his youtube-scouting comes through, that's how little faith I have in the guy to make the picks.
Their first draft already is looking incredibly thin. Mingo is not starting material yet and getting owned vs the pass and run when he started..and his pass rush effectiveness took a big drop too because of the increased workload. He looks every bit the situational pass rusher many saw in the guy. We're talking a top10 pick here, not some mid rounder.
Speaking of, the fact that they have to "hide" McFadden despite pretty crappy nickel play from Owens is incredibly disappointing. This is an early 3rd rounder, a top 75 pick, those guys HAVE TO contribute in their first season, especially on a team and unit with little depth.
Then they punted the next two picks into 2014 and traded for Bess, that might have been their best part of the draft, but only delayed what they're weakest at: selecting the right specs.
Of the 3 late rounders A.Bryant is showing at least something, Slaughter got cut (A.Ellington would look really good on our roster now) and Gilkey must have been horrible if he wasn't even close to Cousins. I think they just kept him for ego, as nobody needs 11 OL, which we currently have on our roster. If the guy was not an "adequate" 4th G, then he didn't belong on the opening day roster. Simple as that.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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[quoteAlso, to continue the "hypocrisy" series going on here lately: I know for a FACT that well over half the board wanted us to draft DeCastro at 22,
How? How do you know that is a FACT?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Wait, by what measure are you calling Decastro a bust? He's playing very well.
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and the HoneyBadger is already killing it in the NFL
40 tackles
INT and FF
we messed that pick up too. We had Mathieu with our 3rd pick and instead we went with McHidden on the depth chart at 6
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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DjangoBrown "Credibility"-O-Meter: 20% trending down
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I wanted Nick Perry at pick 22. Remains to be seen how he does.
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By what measure is he doing well? He stunk last year and was a backup before he was injured. This year the guy who was starting in front of him moved to LG. They are last in the league in rushing. The guy stinks.
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Quote:
Quote:
Steelers took him at 11.
I say draft a QB anyway, and just give the team to Hoyer to start the year.
nothing wrong with that...
see Bledsoe Brady
Farve Rodgers
Brees Rivers
I also remember Montana Young
Yup, nobody will rip you a new one if Hoyer blows it up next year, but you still used a first round pick/multiple picks to draft a QB.
Kaepernick started out as the backup last year, and SF went to the SB, so, not a bad thing to have a guy on the bench.
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How poorly we evaluated the 2011 Oklahoma State Cowboys.
How poorly our Organization has evaluated the last 14 years....... 
Think about it, 41 wrong calls on QB's ....41.....some organizations couldnt miss that bad if they intentionally tried to pick the wrong QB....This franchise did it with HOPE, With a plan...ok 7 or 8 five year plans but we still had a plan...Something has got to change, it's remarkable how many NFL coachs, executives, high ranking smart evaluatiors, people paid millions to do this for a living.....so called smart NFL coaches.....it's remarkable how many have gotten this wrong,......how many so called experts cant select a real franchise QB for Cleveland......I'd love to see what the odds are for this....it blows my mind after 14 years, 14 drafts, all these coaches not one can pick a real NFL QB to lead this franchise.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
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Wait, by what measure are you calling Decastro a bust? He's playing very well.
Lol, really? You might ask some Steelers fans about that. He cut blocked his C to IR. That's their version of the underhand-INT this season.
Take a look, if you haven't seen it yet: http://gamedayr.com/sports/gif-david-decastro-maurkice-pouncey-injury/
He got owned all last season and that got him injured twice.
He got moved from LG to RG because he was bad and the UDFA, who played RG and every Steelers fan wanted to see upgraded actually had to move to LG and the Steelers still have a terrible OL and he and Adams are the main reasons, as Pouncey, while overrated on his own, was at least a decent C until DeCastro knocked him out for the season.
He's a one dimensional G-only with zero position flexibility (RG), even if he becomes an AVG RG, he'd be a bust at 22, as AVG RGs grow on the 3rd day or UDFA of any draft, the position has slightly more value than a FB.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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OP
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By what measure is he doing well? He stunk last year and was a backup before he was injured. This year the guy who was starting in front of him moved to LG. They are last in the league in rushing. The guy stinks.
So wait, because they are last in the league in rushing he stinks? That doesn't sound objective at all. Moving him from Left G to Right G could have been for all kinds of reasons, of which you didn't post any.
He is ranked highly by Pro Football Focus through the first 4 games.
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Stud: It’s the right guard David DeCastro (+4.8) who is the one to keep an eye on.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/10/09/ranking-the-2013-offensive-lines-first-quarter/3/
I'm not taking Steelers fans words for it. I don't know a single one who knows anything about football much less line play and that line is such a mess with Adams being horrible. Despite their tackle problems the interior line is improved, don't' let their record fool you. I;m certainly not letting one bonehead play skew an entire season, that's foolish.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,436
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,436 |
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[quoteAlso, to continue the "hypocrisy" series going on here lately: I know for a FACT that well over half the board wanted us to draft DeCastro at 22,
How? How do you know that is a FACT?
I don't know if it was over half ..... but there was a sizable contingent who wanted us to draft DeCastro at 22.
As far as how he's playing, I seem to recall him looking fairly solid at pulling from the RG spot in the run game when I have watched the Steelers games. Beyond that, I haven't noticed anything special ..... or ever just plain "good".
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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That grade isn't all that impressive and AVG out as under +1 per game, so slightly above AVG. He's their best right now, nothing else and that's not saying much. The fact that he had to be moved and they acknowledged (FO + coaches) it, is already a bust, as nobody tries to draft a RG with its top pick. They already were "ok" with their RG play in UDFA Foster, but now has to move him to the blindside because their 1st rounder didn't cut it (pun intended)  And to say what you said about "one boneheaded play" was hypocrisy-nuts btw. Weeden contributed to a loss with his boneheaded play, DeCastro put their best OL on IR for the season with a devastating knee injury that could alter his career...but that boneheaded play was not so bad....umm, ok, lol
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Joined: Mar 2013
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We are positioned to make a run for a big time QB and I hope we do.
Of course this is assuming that there are 1 or 2 "franchise" QB's in this draft. That has yet to be determined...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
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And to say what you said about "one boneheaded play" was hypocrisy-nuts btw. Weeden contributed to a loss with his boneheaded play, DeCastro put their best OL on IR for the season with a devastating knee injury that could alter his career...but that boneheaded play was not so bad....umm, ok, lol
Red herring - something intended to divert attention from the real problem or matter at hand.
"You think I am an idiot in wanting and defending Weeden. All you idiots wanted DeCastro!"
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