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Well now that its official...Chud's Monday presser he stated that they were going to review the film (after the presser w/staff) and make their decision.
Hope I am incorrect in my assumption that Campbell is more of the same as Weeden. Of course his MO from preseason was to quickly decide on his Check Down.
I did also read that the Chiefs are the top pass rushing team in the NFL. Which would have meant a disaster n pummeling for Weeden. Campbell also has a bit more escapability than Weeden even if he's a whopping 1 year older 
Well the homer that I am...hope Campbell does great - of course we win with him...the job is his as it was with Hoyer.
Hope we do sign somebody, maybe Garcia who knows.
Would hate to see Campbell go down like Hoyer did. Possibly Weeden has found his calling card...as the Relief Pitcher!
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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j/c
NFL.com has announced that Chud has picked Campbell to start the KC game...
I felt that this should be at the beginning of a page since a new one was just started. Actually, its own thread in the K.C. Forum.
I don't think this means the end of Weedens career. The optimist in me is making me think that he can succeed at some level. Just not as an every day starter. I don't see it, but if people are paid a lot of money to make selections, I would like to think that there is something there based on his selection and the homework that was put into that selection. Im not seeing it, but I do have optimisim. I hate that Weeden makes Vinny Testeverde look like a mobile QB.
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I think the calling that Weeden will here will be from his wife saying, honey, it's over, come on home. You just beat two teams in two different sports into paying you huge sums of money to fail... So, let's take the money and run... 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I think the calling that Weeden will here will be from his wife saying, honey, it's over, come on home. You just beat two teams in two different sports into paying you huge sums of money to fail... So, let's take the money and run...
Steve Miller Band
Take the Money and Run
"Heres a story of Brandon and Bobbie Sue. Two young lovers with nothing better to do."
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"Heres a story of Brandon and Bobbie Sue. Two young lovers with nothing better to do."
So Bobbie Sue is Holmgren?
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Weeden is officially done. Man, I can't believe spending a 1st round pick on a 29 year old QB with no football IQ coming from the spread offense didn't work out. Who could've seen that one coming? 
most people on this board... I think there was 5-6 of us that got blasted every single day about how Weeden had the holy arm, accurate, didn't get flustered, had a good iq, he was mature, and he would shred defenses and take us to the playoffs. Most people thought he was a steal and he should have gone before Tanny and his numbers compared with Luck and Manning and RG3.
Meh.
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What irks me...besides Weeden sucking...was that Holmgren crapped the bed on the RG3 deal (the guy only had the best rookie season in NFL history) then turned around and thought he was smarter than everyone, so he decided that it'd be perfectly fine to take a 28-year old, developmental QB in the 1st round.
Brilliant.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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What irks me...besides Weeden sucking...was that Holmgren crapped the bed on the RG3 deal (the guy only had the best rookie season in NFL history) then turned around and thought he was smarter than everyone, so he decided that it'd be perfectly fine to take a 28-year old, developmental QB in the 1st round.
Brilliant.
I am thrilled that we did not "manage" to get RG3 for MORE than what the Redskins gave up for that guy. Absolutely thrilled.
FWIW: I usually agree with your football takes...but not with that guy.
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It was a steep price, no doubt, so I understand why you wouldn't be down with it. Having said that, we all saw Holmgren's reaction to losing out on RG3. It became common knowledge that he screwed that deal up, then doubled his screwup by taking Flipper.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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For the life of me I will never understand how Holmgren came to that conclusion.
It is so difficult (unless your the Colts) to have all the stars align properly to get a player like Griffin. Then to put a first round grade on Weeden is just beyond comprehension.
With all the experience Holmgren had with quality quarterbacks it just does not compute.
When Weeden's name was called on draft day I just put my head down.
Then Weeden failed miserable from his first game. As the season went on not much improvement. Everybody placed the blame on Shurmur.
Then everybody was on the band wagon about how "the vertical offense" and the new staff would be just what the doctor ordered.
Well here we are. The Brandon Weedon era is over.
Banner and company will put all their eggs in the next quarterback. They will either be right and the team will take giant step forward or they will go back 5 steps, and take another five years to recover if ever. Hopefully they will get it right or they follow the door Brian Billick took when he drafted Kyle Boller.
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So, Arps, I presume he will let us know when it IS time so we can go ahead with that. Most depressing thing out of his mouth: We still have a lot of football to play." That was absolutely crushing to me mentally and emotionally. How can this matter so much to me and apparently so little to him? Infuriating!   
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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2nd - Ponder might come around. He is still a young guy. Perhaps new coaching and a new system allow him to turn it around.
We cant spend any more time hoping for retreads to come around...We need to trade for Luck, Payton or Rodgers, IF we cant do that we need to draft a QB that were sure is going to be our franchise in a year or two...no more well they were the best of what was left, dont draft a QB if thats whats left..
SCOUTS & FO HAS TO GET THIS RIGHT......
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How can this matter so much to me and apparently so little to him?
Possibly because he is doing it for a great deal of money and you are spending money for doing your thing... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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It was a steep price, no doubt, so I understand why you wouldn't be down with it. Having said that, we all saw Holmgren's reaction to losing out on RG3. It became common knowledge that he screwed that deal up, then doubled his screwup by taking Flipper.
The problem is that he got cocky. He banked on the fact that with our extra 1st, we could always outbid the Redskins. When the Rams ended the bidding and we had lost, he went into full blown panic mode, hence overdrafting Weeden.
It just kills me to think that that one mistake is responsible for the dumpster fire we've had here since. Hopefully Banner and Lombardi don't repeat it this year.
We're... we're good?
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most people on this board... I think there was 5-6 of us that got blasted every single day about how Weeden had the holy arm, accurate, didn't get flustered, had a good iq, he was mature, and he would shred defenses and take us to the playoffs. Most people thought he was a steal and he should have gone before Tanny and his numbers compared with Luck and Manning and RG3.
There will always be blind homerism no matter how much evidence to the contrary is staring people in the face but this is one that I've never understood. Why being 29 was supposed to be an asset to Weeden instead of a hindrance never made any sense to me, let alone how no football IQ or accuracy under pressure was suddenly going to translate to him becoming a great NFL QB. At least being young buys a guy time. If Weeden were 23-24 right now, there's no way on earth he'd be benched for Campbell. Instead, we'll be lucky to get a conditional pick for the guy now because no one wants a 30 year old developmental QB. What a waste.
We're... we're good?
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What irks me...besides Weeden sucking...was that Holmgren crapped the bed on the RG3 deal (the guy only had the best rookie season in NFL history) then turned around and thought he was smarter than everyone, so he decided that it'd be perfectly fine to take a 28-year old, developmental QB in the 1st round.
Brilliant.
I'm probably gonna get beat on for this but I didn't want the Browns to trade all those picks for RG3 and while he had a heck of a rookie season, I think it's pretty clear, he couldn't keep that up and stay alive. I think in the long run, he's not long for this league.
Now, if you would have said we had to make those trades to get Luck, that would have been a different story. But I think the Colts made it pretty clear, that wasn't going to happen.
Didn't care for the Weeden pick either but couldn't do a damn thing about it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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There will always be blind homerism no matter how much evidence to the contrary is staring people in the face but this is one that I've never understood. Why being 29 was supposed to be an asset to Weeden instead of a hindrance never made any sense to me
Because Holmgren said it and Heckert said it. That made it easier to sip the kool-aid.
Turns out being "old" and being "mature" are two very different things, but many knew that already.
We now know that Weeden was anything but mature.
So...maybe we can move forward with the thread.
I was a big fan of Bradford. Now he's out for the year. If by some chance the Rams decide to move on, even though he's continued to improve, I wouldn't be opposed to having him here while we continued to build the roster. I don't actually see the Rams walking away from him, but it's a possibility, and unlike many other QB's who could be available, there's plenty of time and upside with Bradford.
We all know that none of the QB's on this roster will be here next year. Can't hurt to look ahead.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I'm probably gonna get beat on for this but I didn't want the Browns to trade all those picks for RG3 and while he had a heck of a rookie season, I think it's pretty clear, he couldn't keep that up and stay alive.
He's a polarizing guy, both in terms of play and of value, so it's hard to "beat on" anyone regarding him.
What we can say for sure is that Shanahan totally blew it by continuing to march an obviously crippled RG3 out there when he had no business being on the field. His major knee injury was caused by being forced to play when the leg was already seriously damaged. The laws of causality indicate nobody can say for sure that his major knee injury showed he was injury-prone. What can be said is that it's fair speculation to question whether or not his style made him a risk.
Regardless of how people view RG3, there's no question or debate when it comes to saying Holmgren blew it. He wanted RG3, then cried like a little girl when it got out into public space. It's also non-debatable to say he compounded the mistake by making the ridiculous move to take Flipper in the 1st.
What an idiot.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Every time Holmgren opens his mouth, he burns up a little more of his legacy.
His yapping about the Richardson trade was a terrible look, and proving him to be a buffoon with each passing week.
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Every time Holmgren opens his mouth, he burns up a little more of his legacy.
His yapping about the Richardson trade was a terrible look, and proving him to be a buffoon with each passing week.
I was thrilled when Holmgren first came here.
But this about sums it up where things stand now.
And it infuriates me how he took advantage of Lerner. That's the one thing I believe that came out of JB's mouth. And the hiring of Shurmur is proof positive of it. "Let's get my buddies paid!".
He'll still make the HOF. Incredible coach. But that's where his 'good' ends.
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He was upset because Richardson and Weeden represented his last chance not to look like a complete blundering idiot with how he invested Lerner's money and draft picks here.
That gets me thinking...I wonder if anyone has put a microphone in front of Holmgren and asked him what he thinks about Weeden being benched for a 2nd time.
Conventional wisdom and common sense would indicate after shoving his foot into his mouth over Richardson being traded that there'd be no way he'd say anything other than "no comment" when asked about Flipper. However, being the egomaniac that he is, I certainly would try because there's a good chance he just can't help himself and will spout-off again...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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That gets me thinking...I wonder if anyone has put a microphone in front of Holmgren and asked him what he thinks about Weeden being benched for a 2nd time.
I don't see anyone clamoring to hear what he has to say outside of whatever Seattle radio show he calls up once in a blue moon.
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Since we've officially closed the book on Holmgren, as there's nothing left to evaluate from his regime, here's a nice article laying out some examples of just how badly he managed things here in Cleveland: web page I would love to trash the Cleveland Browns for trading their best offensive weapon this week and raising a white flag on the season. I can’t. The Browns’ management is digging out of a pile of rubble left for them by former owner Randy Lerner and former team president Mike Holmgren. They need a quarterback, and they need to fill a slew of holes. Trading running back Trent Richardson, the third overall pick in the 2012 NFL Draft, for the Indianapolis Colts’ first round pick next year gives the Browns the flexibility to add a player or two who can be true cornerstones of the franchise. The No. 1 personnel problem for Cleveland, of course, is quarterback. It’s well documented that new Browns general manager Mike Lombardi never liked Brandon Weeden. Picking Weeden 22nd overall in the 2012 draft was the biggest of a bunch of bad gambles by Holmgren. Weeden is early in his second season and he’s going to be 30 in two weeks. If you’re going to draft a quarterback that old, he better be a once-in-a-generation guy. Peyton Manning. Robert Griffin III. Coming out of college, the most wildly optimistic view was Weeden could be Carson Palmer. But there was also a chance he could be Chris Weinke, the big-armed pocket passer who flopped for Carolina a decade ago. Weeden hasn’t looked special enough so far, and he’s a guy who will take a lot of hits in the pocket. This was a compounded mistake by Holmgren. The Browns had the fourth pick in 2012. They wanted Griffin. They tried to move up to No. 2 by offering the fourth pick and their second-rounder, No. 37 overall. The Redskins outbid them, moving up to No. 2 in return for Nos. 6 and 39 overall and first-rounders in 2013 and 2014. It was a huge sacrifice but Redskins coach Mike Shanahan must be smiling about the Browns’ moves today. It’s going to wind up costing them at least two No. 1s, plus the middle-round picks they used to move up to get Richardson, to get a guy in 2014 who probably won’t be as highly regarded as Griffin. But this move wasn’t just about giving up on Weeden. Lombardi doesn’t view Richardson as valuable as an All-Pro back like Adrian Peterson. Richardson is not a game-breaker. He doesn’t strike fear into defenses like Peterson – or C.J. Spiller. And he’s going to take a lot of hits, given his rugged running style. He probably won’t have a long shelf life. Remember the reaction of Browns legend Jim Brown after the draft: “I’m not overwhelmed with it. The problem is that he’s ordinary.” That assessment is harsh. Richardson may be ordinary compared with Brown (who isn’t?), but Richardson is a high-quality back. Because he’s not a game-breaker, he’s not the key to your offense in today’s NFL. He’s perfect for the Colts, because he complements “the franchise,” Andrew Luck. So Richardson became a bullet Lombardi had to bite in starting over. The challenge for the Browns will be to make the right call on QB in next year’s draft. It’s hard to forecast today because we don’t know the assessment of the QB Class of 2014. It looks like the clear No. 1 QB will be Louisville’s Teddy Bridgewater, presuming he leaves college early. But Jacksonville is the favorite to be the worst team in the league. The Browns figure to be drafting somewhere between Nos. 2 and 6. So Cleveland will be in the running for whoever ranks after Bridgewater. The candidates include UCLA’s Brett Hundley, Clemson’s Tajh Boyd, Texas A&M’s Johnny Manziel and maybe Oregon’s Marcus Mariotta. (Are any of them “safer” picks than EJ Manuel? Not as of today. We’ll see how it looks next May.) One could argue the Browns could have kept Richardson, still drafted fifth or sixth, and wound up with one of those QBs anyway. But getting the Colts’ pick, which could turn out to be 20th to 25th overall, gives them flexibility to move up a few spots, if necessary. Furthermore, this wasn’t just about the QB. It gives them a bevy of picks they need to get – they hope – more than one difference-maker. Cleveland now has two firsts, two thirds and two fourths in 2014. Holmgren’s era will go down in Cleveland as a bigger disaster than Marv Levy’s two-year GM tenure in Buffalo. Levy gave the Bills Dick Jauron, Derrick Dockery, Langston Walker and Donte Whitner, moves that set the franchise back four years. My guess is the Bills paid Levy $2 million total. The Browns paid Holmgren a reported $40 million on a five-year contract. He only served three of it, and he didn’t even live in Cleveland full-time. Lerner, a weak leader, allowed it. Lerner wasn’t even good at making money. Joe Banner, the new chief executive officer, already is doing better at maximizing revenues. Fortunately for Browns fans, Lerner sold the team last fall. The Browns need to go back to making sound, responsible picks. That’s what they didn’t do under Holmgren. Weeden was one example. Another was using a 2010 second-round pick on running back Montario Hardesty, who a lot of teams didn’t even consider due to red flags on his knee. The Browns moved up to get him. He has barely played. Another example was using a second-round supplemental pick on talented wideout Josh Gordon. He had character red-flags in college and was suspended the first two games this year for violating the drug policy. He might pan out, but he was an unneeded gamble. Holmgren’s pick as coach, Pat Shurmur, flopped as well. Woe is the Dawg Pound. Browns fans can only hope Lombardi makes the right call on QB in May.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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The Browns need to go back to making sound, responsible picks. That’s what they didn’t do under Holmgren. Weeden was one example. Another was using a 2010 second-round pick on running back Montario Hardesty, who a lot of teams didn’t even consider due to red flags on his knee. The Browns moved up to get him. He has barely played. Another example was using a second-round supplemental pick on talented wideout Josh Gordon. He had character red-flags in college and was suspended the first two games this year for violating the drug policy. He might pan out, but he was an unneeded gamble. Holmgren’s pick as coach, Pat Shurmur, flopped as well.
wasn't holmgrens pick. the guy never even met pat shurmer until after he was hired.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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The Browns need to go back to making sound, responsible picks. That’s what they didn’t do under Holmgren. Weeden was one example. Another was using a 2010 second-round pick on running back Montario Hardesty, who a lot of teams didn’t even consider due to red flags on his knee. The Browns moved up to get him. He has barely played. Another example was using a second-round supplemental pick on talented wideout Josh Gordon. He had character red-flags in college and was suspended the first two games this year for violating the drug policy. He might pan out, but he was an unneeded gamble. Holmgren’s pick as coach, Pat Shurmur, flopped as well.
wasn't holmgrens pick. the guy never even met pat shurmer until after he was hired.
Huh?
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The Browns need to go back to making sound, responsible picks. That’s what they didn’t do under Holmgren. Weeden was one example. Another was using a 2010 second-round pick on running back Montario Hardesty, who a lot of teams didn’t even consider due to red flags on his knee. The Browns moved up to get him. He has barely played. Another example was using a second-round supplemental pick on talented wideout Josh Gordon. He had character red-flags in college and was suspended the first two games this year for violating the drug policy. He might pan out, but he was an unneeded gamble. Holmgren’s pick as coach, Pat Shurmur, flopped as well.
wasn't holmgrens pick. the guy never even met pat shurmer until after he was hired.
Perhaps you're confusing this with the Crennel/Savage situation.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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The Browns need to go back to making sound, responsible picks. That’s what they didn’t do under Holmgren. Weeden was one example. Another was using a 2010 second-round pick on running back Montario Hardesty, who a lot of teams didn’t even consider due to red flags on his knee. The Browns moved up to get him. He has barely played. Another example was using a second-round supplemental pick on talented wideout Josh Gordon. He had character red-flags in college and was suspended the first two games this year for violating the drug policy. He might pan out, but he was an unneeded gamble. Holmgren’s pick as coach, Pat Shurmur, flopped as well.
wasn't holmgrens pick. the guy never even met pat shurmer until after he was hired.
Perhaps you're confusing this with the Crennel/Savage situation.
no I am not. its fact that Holmgren never met shurmer until after he was hired. kind of hard to hire a HC with never meating him isn't it?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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The Browns need to go back to making sound, responsible picks. That’s what they didn’t do under Holmgren. Weeden was one example. Another was using a 2010 second-round pick on running back Montario Hardesty, who a lot of teams didn’t even consider due to red flags on his knee. The Browns moved up to get him. He has barely played. Another example was using a second-round supplemental pick on talented wideout Josh Gordon. He had character red-flags in college and was suspended the first two games this year for violating the drug policy. He might pan out, but he was an unneeded gamble. Holmgren’s pick as coach, Pat Shurmur, flopped as well.
wasn't holmgrens pick. the guy never even met pat shurmer until after he was hired.
so Homgren wasn't involved in the coaching search?
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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The Browns need to go back to making sound, responsible picks. That’s what they didn’t do under Holmgren. Weeden was one example. Another was using a 2010 second-round pick on running back Montario Hardesty, who a lot of teams didn’t even consider due to red flags on his knee. The Browns moved up to get him. He has barely played. Another example was using a second-round supplemental pick on talented wideout Josh Gordon. He had character red-flags in college and was suspended the first two games this year for violating the drug policy. He might pan out, but he was an unneeded gamble. Holmgren’s pick as coach, Pat Shurmur, flopped as well.
wasn't holmgrens pick. the guy never even met pat shurmer until after he was hired.
so Homgren wasn't involved in the coaching search?
IDK. I just know he never met shurmer until after he was hired.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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The Browns need to go back to making sound, responsible picks. That’s what they didn’t do under Holmgren. Weeden was one example. Another was using a 2010 second-round pick on running back Montario Hardesty, who a lot of teams didn’t even consider due to red flags on his knee. The Browns moved up to get him. He has barely played. Another example was using a second-round supplemental pick on talented wideout Josh Gordon. He had character red-flags in college and was suspended the first two games this year for violating the drug policy. He might pan out, but he was an unneeded gamble. Holmgren’s pick as coach, Pat Shurmur, flopped as well.
wasn't holmgrens pick. the guy never even met pat shurmer until after he was hired.
so Homgren wasn't involved in the coaching search?
IDK. I just know he never met shurmer until after he was hired.
So, he never met with Shurmur?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5999723
Before he was hired?
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/14550...owns-around/rss
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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The Browns need to go back to making sound, responsible picks. That’s what they didn’t do under Holmgren. Weeden was one example. Another was using a 2010 second-round pick on running back Montario Hardesty, who a lot of teams didn’t even consider due to red flags on his knee. The Browns moved up to get him. He has barely played. Another example was using a second-round supplemental pick on talented wideout Josh Gordon. He had character red-flags in college and was suspended the first two games this year for violating the drug policy. He might pan out, but he was an unneeded gamble. Holmgren’s pick as coach, Pat Shurmur, flopped as well.
wasn't holmgrens pick. the guy never even met pat shurmer until after he was hired.
so Homgren wasn't involved in the coaching search?
IDK. I just know he never met shurmer until after he was hired.
Well, the first three letter were right on.
#GMSTRONG
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Lawyered...
I didn't realize this would happen, but I felt anger when I saw Shurmer smiling in that second article.
"FIALURE IS NOT AN OPTION...!"
-mac
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Lets not assume Holmgren didn't do as he said, from Purps second article: Quote:
"This is the first head coach I've ever hired," said Holmgren, the club's president. "I trust it will be my last. I don't want to do it again."
#gmstrong
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Lets not assume Holmgren didn't do as he said, from Purps second article:
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"This is the first head coach I've ever hired," said Holmgren, the club's president. "I trust it will be my last. I don't want to do it again."
Truer words have never been spoken.
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j/c: I know these comments go across two boards, but......... --I don't remember too many guys ever backing me up when I said that both The Big Show was a dud? In fact, I remember being severely criticized for it. --I don't remember hardly anyone backing me up when I said trading up for TRich stupid. Heck, I remember getting blasted on this board for saying TRich was not indecisive and didn't have good instincts. I remember guys like mac berating me for saying the rib injury thing was an excuse. --I don't remember many agreeing w/me about Weeden when I said he was a Spread QB who wasn't very smart and became inaccurate after being pressured? Funny how so many people are now saying they knew all three sucked all along. Toad: You and I pretty much agree on all this, but I have a few questions for you: Do you really believe The Big Show when he said he went all in for RGIII? Do you really think that Fisher was trying to screw us and preferred helping Washington, even though they were in the same conference? Did you believe him when he said he offered our entire draft for Luck? To take it further, did you believe The Big Show when he said he decided to fire Mangini the very morning he did? Did you believe his big fat lying mouth when he was saying he was hiring great people, or did you think he was hiring guys based on who their agent was?
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--I don't remember many agreeing w/me about ...
You're right; I didn't...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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wasn't holmgrens pick. the guy never even met pat shurmer until after he was hired.
Holmgren knew Pat from his time in Green Bay with Pat's uncle, Fritz. Holmgren was very familiar with Pat Shurmur from day one.
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--I don't remember hardly anyone backing me up when I said trading up for TRich stupid. Heck, I remember getting blasted on this board for saying TRich was not indecisive and didn't have good instincts. I remember guys like mac berating me for saying the rib injury thing was an excuse.
That was hotly contested on this board. I really believed heckert when he flat out said he would not trade up to 3 and that no matter what they would get a good player at 4. I was hoping that player would be blackmon, along with some other posters. Some wanted Richardson, some wanted Claiborne, Mourg wanted Tannehill, and some even wanted DeCastro lol. I was annoyed that we took Richardson but even more angry that we jettisoned all of our ability to trade up that draft on that move.
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--I don't remember many agreeing w/me about Weeden when I said he was a Spread QB who wasn't very smart and became inaccurate after being pressured?
Weeden isn't usually accurate with no pressure, so I don't really see what the point of that qualifier is. I will definitely say that Weeden did not improve as much as I thought he would in a shotgun, deep passing offense. Always thought he was a terrible fit for the role he was drafted though.
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Why do you care so much about being right and pointing out that you were right? No one cares. And many did agree with you on the points that you brought up, you just don't care to remember.
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Toad: You and I pretty much agree on all this, but I have a few questions for you: Do you really believe The Big Show when he said he went all in for RGIII?
I believe the Walrus made what he believed to be a winning offer but didn't play his cards correctly and lost. The most widely accepted version of events stated Holmgren was willing to go more but the rules were he had to make his best offer first. When he tried to get a mulligan on his offer and was told he'd blown it that was the end of the story. I believe it to be true based on the impressive temper-tantrum he put on in front of the microphone, hehe.
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Do you really think that Fisher was trying to screw us and preferred helping Washington, even though they were in the same conference?
That feels a little as though it's playing the victim-card. I don't think the powers that be in the NFL went out of their way to acquire the best package for RG3 only to sell the dream short so they could stick one to the Browns.
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Did you believe him when he said he offered our entire draft for Luck?
Hand-to-God (wrong forum?  ) the only thought I had when I read that quote was "He's good at not offering enough for what he wants in life." I've tuned Holmgren out. He brought a resume of failure here as an Executive and most expertly lived up to his reputation. By now I'm putting very little stock in anything he says because whatever words come out of his mouth...they just don't mean anything to me. Maybe he did offer his entire draft and maybe he didn't. This isn't grade-school where you get a medal for participation.
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To take it further, did you believe The Big Show when he said he decided to fire Mangini the very morning he did?
Sounded like BS to me. If I had to take a stab at further truths, I might believe Holmgren had he said his mind was 98% made-up to fire Mangini, but that after meeting with him he couldn't justify keeping him, which would be a nice way of saying Eric couldn't talk his way out of it.
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Did you believe his big fat lying mouth when he was saying he was hiring great people, or did you think he was hiring guys based on who their agent was?
I'd replace the word "or" with the word "and" and say I agree. 
It wasn't exactly cronyism at play, as all the guys Holmgren brought in had the resumes to justify their appointments, but all of them had Bob Lamont as their agent. Coincidence? Nepotism at it's finest.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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