|
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,069
Dawg Talker
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,069 |
When it comes to Heckert it seems like you have to fall into two camps on this board and that's it.
Either he brought in a bunch of talent, that we never had, and we should be thankful for it and rue the day he was let go.
Or, he missed on many of his choices and we disagree on the quality of the players he chose.
It seems to me that reality comes somewhere in between. Heckert added some talent to the roster, but...
It seems he missed out on a lot of really good players that could have been had, and selected the ones we have too early in the drafts. The problem isn't nescessarily the players he chose, but the thought that when he chose them cost us at least 2, possibly as many as 4 or 5 really good players. (He may have judged some players well, but he wasn't very coy about the handling of the draft.)
Many of us believe he still could have gotten Weeden, Swartz, McCoy, Sheard, etc.... if he had been patient and taken the best player available in those places.
The list of players we missed out on is endless. Russell Wilson, Cobb, Lavonte David.....
Little things like we could have gotten Blackmon and Doug Martin (who I wanted) instead of Richardson and Weeden, also come into play. ( I remember his brash, overconfident response when declaring that he was happy to jump and take Weeden when he did because "he was the one we really wanted.")
I also believe that many of us looked at the wisdom of trading within the draft and future picks, and found he wasn't willing or capable of doing that.
I realize he increased the talent level from our recent front office disasters, but I suspect history may judge him as being overrated.
Interested in your thoughts.
Barry Bonds Check
Roger Clemens Check
Mark McGuire Check
Lance Armstrong Check
71-79 Steelers Taboo
(Lets pretend it didn't happen.)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,561
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,561 |
Lotta hindsight in there. But you are probably right. He wasn't as good as many thought he was and certainly not as bad as others thought he was.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Is this thread really necessary? Aren't all of Heckert's decisions being discussed in other threads already?
This is just going to become a poo flinging contest.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,885
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,885 |
Quote:
This is just going to become a poo flinging contest.
::Heads to Taco Bell to prepare for said contest::
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
Quote:
This is just going to become a poo flinging contest.
::Heads to Taco Bell to prepare for said contest::
Are there no Chipotles near you?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234 |
He did bad, he did good. More good than bad, if you ask me. This in spite off Holmgren in the room.
I say he's easily been our best GM since the return. But that's not saying much really . . .
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704 |
Quote:
I say he's easily been our best GM since the return. But that's not saying much really . . .
Kinda like being the best penguin farm in Texas.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,276
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,276 |
I liked him in general until the last draft. That was just a nightmare.
Prior to that draft I rate him slightly above average. After that draft...just man..what was that? No excuses for that.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
I think we all agree that the top two rounds make or break a GM. Heckert dealt his way to 10 of those in just 3 drafts (includes Gordon), factoring in WHERE they were picked, that's the way I see it (as of now, still too early for a def stamp):
5 of those 10 have been great picks (Haden, Ward, Taylor, Sheard, Gordon)
1 has been ok (Schwartz: great rookie season, inconsistent 2nd season)
2 have been below AVG to bad (Little, TRich)
2 have been busts (Weeden, Hardesty)
Overall that's probably AVG if you look up other team's drafts, it"s pretty good if you go only by number of quality players (5 very strong players in top two rounds in 3 drafts. Not many teams can Match that), but personally I give him a below AVG grade and ultimatively fail grade because of the 2012 draft, which was his make or break one and he went broke, which really is a shame as the two prior ones were pretty impressive, both in terms of picks and additional value/picks added and they're the main reason we finally have a young, drafted talent Base.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,504
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,504 |
I believe Heckerts biggest problem was being saddled with the Big Show ..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
GMs generally do not get to select more than one first round QB. Either the guy is great and is on your team forever or he sucks and you are fired for the decision.
Heckert did a fine job, but even if he was still here right now he would have gotten fired because of the horrendous panic Weeden pick.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704 |
I'd actually be interested to see how many GM's have drafted more than one first round QB with the same team. I'm sure it's a very short list.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
Quote:
I liked him in general until the last draft. That was just a nightmare.
Prior to that draft I rate him slightly above average. After that draft...just man..what was that? No excuses for that.
+1
Like someone said, that could have been the Big Show flexing his muscles and forcing his picks before it all blew up.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Good:
Joe Haden
TJ Ward
Shawn Lauvao
Phil Taylor
Jabaal Sheard
Jordan Cameron
John Hughes
Travis Benjamin
Billy Winn
Bad:
Colt McCoy
Larry Asante
Greg Little
Trent Richardson
James Michael Johnson
Ugly:
Montario Hardesty
Owen Marecic
Brandon Weeden
There are guys who don't really fit this at all. Maybe Buster Skrine can fit into "good". He's improving, but wow were his growing pains bad. Jason Pinkston? Where are we at with Mitchell Schwartz?
As far as signings go, I don't think he had much power in how much money the team spent. The Jake Delhomme signing will go down as one of the worst in Browns history, but I don't know if that was even his call. Bringing in Scott Fujita did nothing for me either way. Keeping D-Qwell long term was a good move. It was hard to knock the Brandon Jackson move at the time, because it seemed like the smart move, but that never got off on the right foot (HEY OH)
Trading a 7th for Greco probably one of his better moves. That one still paying off. Greco helped stabilize the line.
Heckert was not our worst GM, but probably the best since the re-birth (not including current management). I think he did a good job deconstructing an old, talentless roster into a young, deep one that is starting to blossom a little every week.
Aside from the pick of Brandon Weeden, you can pretty much live with all of these moves. I don't know who made that call but my God was it a horrible one.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704 |
I can't even consider Colt McCoy a bad pick.
He was a 3rd round pick that was forced into action way too soon. You can't really hold that pick against him, IMO.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Good:
Joe Haden
TJ Ward
Shawn Lauvao
Phil Taylor
Jabaal Sheard
Jordan Cameron
John Hughes
Travis Benjamin
Billy Winn
Bad:
Colt McCoy
Larry Asante
Greg Little
Trent Richardson
James Michael Johnson
Ugly:
Montario Hardesty
Owen Marecic
Brandon Weeden
I don't agree with it 100% but I'd bet that is fairly average if you compare it to most GMs success rate... the problem is that when you are dealing with a bad team, where was he great? I'm not talking about great as in the guy who drafted Andrew Luck, that's a no-brainer.. I'm talking about the guy that drafted a 3rd round pick that became a super star almost immediately like Russell Wilson.. when you are a bad team, you need to hit on a couple of those...
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Cameron could be one of those hits...
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Quote:
Quote:
Good:
Joe Haden
TJ Ward
Shawn Lauvao
Phil Taylor
Jabaal Sheard
Jordan Cameron
John Hughes
Travis Benjamin
Billy Winn
Bad:
Colt McCoy
Larry Asante
Greg Little
Trent Richardson
James Michael Johnson
Ugly:
Montario Hardesty
Owen Marecic
Brandon Weeden
I don't agree with it 100% but I'd bet that is fairly average if you compare it to most GMs success rate... the problem is that when you are dealing with a bad team, where was he great? I'm not talking about great as in the guy who drafted Andrew Luck, that's a no-brainer.. I'm talking about the guy that drafted a 3rd round pick that became a super star almost immediately like Russell Wilson.. when you are a bad team, you need to hit on a couple of those...
There are a few of those guys that were found beyond round 3....
I agree though. This is probably about the going rate for a GM that is able to keep a job.
However, you are really judged nowadays on finding a QB, and if you factor in Jake Delhomme, you went 0 for 3, regardless of who is calling the shots.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Quote:
I can't even consider Colt McCoy a bad pick.
He was a 3rd round pick that was forced into action way too soon. You can't really hold that pick against him, IMO.
I'm not saying you're wrong, because I don't know if the book is totally out on McCoy, but I personally don't think the guy can play at the NFL level.
A few radio people tried to make the argument that Colt is exactly what we could use now, and I couldn't disagree any more. A lot of the mistakes Brandon is making are the ones we saw McCoy do for 2 years. They can't move the ball when the game is still in doubt, but when the defense goes soft in garbage time, they start lighting up the stat sheet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,069
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,069 |
I realize we cant speculate, but it seems to me that the biggest issues with Heckert are the things he did not do, passed on, etc...
Through those years there were many things it appeared he should do and didn't.
So, we have a strong defensive line. Our corners are starting to play better. We have a potential receiving tight end. What else?
Although you guys mention good players that have added to our talent base, could he have worked those drafts to get most of those guys, and still get better value, or ... 2-3 maybe more, elite players? I've always thought so.
The guy had a lot of very high draft picks.
There were many things discussed on this board that could have been done. Many made sense.
He passed on quite a few productive players. The trades he did make to reposition ourselves (he should have made more) seemed to make sense until he made the decisions on who to take with those moves.
Many of the guys who look at metrics seem to believe its most productive to trade high draft picks for multiple picks. When I look back on those years, I wonder how some of the better performing GM's would have done if they were in our shoes and worked the draft a little better.
I get it. Because he was better than Dwight Clark, Butch, Savage, Mangini, etc... we have to view him in a somewhat positive light, but looking at it now, I don't think he really was all that much better.
I'm asking you what moves do you think he should have made? I suspect you have a few.
Barry Bonds Check
Roger Clemens Check
Mark McGuire Check
Lance Armstrong Check
71-79 Steelers Taboo
(Lets pretend it didn't happen.)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Cameron could be one of those hits...
That's true, there are several on that list that COULD be in the great category before all is said and done.. but none got there quick enough to save anybodys job.. and like was posted, a lot of that is dependent on finding the right QB... which we haven't.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,436
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,436 |
Quote:
Cameron could be one of those hits...
It still baffles me that Cameron was so unused by the Shurmur regime.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
It still baffles me that Cameron was so unused by the Shurmur regime.
You answered your own question.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Cameron is a much better player now than he was two years ago. Probably even more than a year ago.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
He gave us a talent foundation
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,560
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,560 |
Buster Skrine, Billy Winn, Craig Robertson undrafted, Hughes, Cameron, Gordon, Lava, Greco, Schwartz, Big Phil, TJ Ward, Sheard, Haden and he resigned Rubin and Joe and still left us with about 45 mil in cap space. This roster was a complete joke when he took it over with about 18 players even worth a roster spot.
Now it is a bottom line business and bottom line is he failed to solve the QB position. Drafting Trich and Weeden were his fatal errors but when you look at what he built as a whole, you have to give him a B. He helped put together a good staff but Pat was not ready to be HC although Chud could win with Weeden and Trich either lol
Heckert built a strong foundation. I feel strongly about this roster as in I feel this team is a QB away from being a perennial power house and contender for years to come.
Its now up to Banner to fill in the pieces that Heckert failed to acquire without making more holes and so far so good. This years draft appears to have produced 2 possible future studs on defense. The rest are already busts. This years draft produces a star QB and everyone will forget Heckert.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
This years draft appears to have produced 2 possible future studs on defense. The rest are already busts.
You should always judge players after week eight of their rookie year.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,601
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,601 |
Lava was drafted by Mangini.
"FIALURE IS NOT AN OPTION...!"
-mac
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Mangini was the coach, Heckert was the GM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,601
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,601 |
Damn, you're right. Lauvao was drafted in 2010 after Heckert showed up. I could've sworn he was here before that.
"FIALURE IS NOT AN OPTION...!"
-mac
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 51,002
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 51,002 |
Quote:
Quote:
It still baffles me that Cameron was so unused by the Shurmur regime.
You answered your own question.
In fairness, we had Watson on the field, and he was solid while he was here. Cameron was inexperienced. as were most of the receivers on the field, so they kept one security blanket on the field for the QB(s).
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Quote:
Quote:
This years draft appears to have produced 2 possible future studs on defense. The rest are already busts.
You should always judge players after week eight of their rookie year.
Especially 7th-round offensive linemen.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Quote:
I realize we cant speculate, but it seems to me that the biggest issues with Heckert are the things he did not do, passed on, etc...
Through those years there were many things it appeared he should do and didn't.
So, we have a strong defensive line. Our corners are starting to play better. We have a potential receiving tight end. What else?
Although you guys mention good players that have added to our talent base, could he have worked those drafts to get most of those guys, and still get better value, or ... 2-3 maybe more, elite players? I've always thought so.
The guy had a lot of very high draft picks.
There were many things discussed on this board that could have been done. Many made sense.
He passed on quite a few productive players. The trades he did make to reposition ourselves (he should have made more) seemed to make sense until he made the decisions on who to take with those moves.
Many of the guys who look at metrics seem to believe its most productive to trade high draft picks for multiple picks. When I look back on those years, I wonder how some of the better performing GM's would have done if they were in our shoes and worked the draft a little better.
I get it. Because he was better than Dwight Clark, Butch, Savage, Mangini, etc... we have to view him in a somewhat positive light, but looking at it now, I don't think he really was all that much better.
I'm asking you what moves do you think he should have made? I suspect you have a few.
I really don't like playing the "You shouldn't have drafted this guy, but instead, this guy" that people love to do. I never said we should have not drafted Trent/Weeden, and instead Tannehill/Martin. You don't know how those guys would have fit in either..
I try to just focus on what we did, and what we have.
I think Heckert was a decent GM, but he will forever be remembered as the guy who passed on Julio Jones (even though I personally love Phil Taylor) and drafted Richardson and Weeden.
That whole thing is linked together because the Weeden pick came from the deal involving Atlanta taking Jones.
Like I said, I don't want to try and think what happens if we take Jones, but I'm a little more mad that we took Weeden. I can't assume things go well if the Browns draft JJ but I saw with my own eyes what went on with Weeden. We've heard all the rumors and horror stories about the pick and what went in to the pick.
Overall, I think TH did a heck of a job with this roster, but even aside from him being lame duck with new ownership coming in, it's hard to ignore the pick of Weeden. That's a fireable offense, although you can argue all day about who actually made that call.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
I think Heckert was a decent GM, but he will forever be remembered as the guy who passed on Julio Jones (even though I personally love Phil Taylor) and drafted Richardson and Weeden.
That's why I don't like playing this game, because IF Heckert is always going to be remembered as the guy who gave away picks for Richardson and selected Flipper, it's actually unfair to him.
The stories have started coming out regarding just how much of a control-freak/manipulator the Walrus really was. Because of that, Heckert shouldn't be remembered for something he didn't do.
The regime of H&H made some good picks and made some bad ones. It's hard to judge Heckert on his own merits and probably isn't quite fair.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Quote:
Quote:
I think Heckert was a decent GM, but he will forever be remembered as the guy who passed on Julio Jones (even though I personally love Phil Taylor) and drafted Richardson and Weeden.
That's why I don't like playing this game, because IF Heckert is always going to be remembered as the guy who gave away picks for Richardson and selected Flipper, it's actually unfair to him.
The stories have started coming out regarding just how much of a control-freak/manipulator the Walrus really was. Because of that, Heckert shouldn't be remembered for something he didn't do.
The regime of H&H made some good picks and made some bad ones. It's hard to judge Heckert on his own merits and probably isn't quite fair.
If I were forced to say one way or the other, I'm saying Holmgren made every QB decision during his time there.
Which would definitely make it unfair for TH.
For us fans, we can only go by what we see, and what we saw on the field and at the QB spot for 3 years was total garbage.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 880
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 880 |
Quote:
If I were forced to say one way or the other, I'm saying Holmgren made every QB decision during his time there.
Which would definitely make it unfair for TH.
Bingo! My thoughts exactly.
I believe that if the Walrus would have left the drafting completely to Heckert, he wouldn't have taken McCoy or Weeden. Those two picks completely stink of Holmgren all along to me. I'll admit that I am a Heckert fan, but Holmgren was the one who was deemed the QB guru. You ask me, Holmgren swung and missed on strikes one and two. Thankfully, Haslam bought the team and canned his sorry a$$ before strike three. My hope is that Banner can find the QB of the future in next years draft. This team isn't that far away and the competition in the AFC North is starting to diminish. Just in time for this team to become good!
And the next head coach is ......
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Quote:
Quote:
If I were forced to say one way or the other, I'm saying Holmgren made every QB decision during his time there.
Which would definitely make it unfair for TH.
Bingo! My thoughts exactly.
I believe that if the Walrus would have left the drafting completely to Heckert, he wouldn't have taken McCoy or Weeden. Those two picks completely stink of Holmgren all along to me. I'll admit that I am a Heckert fan, but Holmgren was the one who was deemed the QB guru. You ask me, Holmgren swung and missed on strikes one and two. Thankfully, Haslam bought the team and canned his sorry a$$ before strike three. My hope is that Banner can find the QB of the future in next years draft. This team isn't that far away and the competition in the AFC North is starting to diminish. Just in time for this team to become good!
Actually you could consider McCoy strike 2, and Weeden strike 3, if you factor in the signing of Jake Delhomme.
I think Holmgren admitted to the media that McCoy was his decision. The Weeden pick still baffles me. I have a feeling we will never know because who wants to be the guy that admits to using a first round pick on a 29 year old quarterback that doesn't belong in the league?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,069
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,069 |
Holmgren
I think most of us had high expectations.
I was surprised he didn't immediately bring in a high level, offense minded Head Coach. I know most of you wouldn't want Gruden, but him, or someone at his level was needed.
I still believe he should have sold the farm to get Bradford. If he did, and if he worked with him, things would have turned out a lot more positive for him and us. Bradford has had some real lousy coaching, blocking, and receiving in St. Louis. Looking back, it seems to me that if we sold the farm, the only one we would be missing right now would be Haden. If Holmgren got his shorts on, went out and was able to apply some sort of the Montana, Young, Farve magic to Bradford, it brings up some interesting scenarios.
A combo of those two, combined with what was supposed to be Holmgren's philosophy would have produced a plan that Heckert could have more easily drafted to and...
Instead we got a lame duck Mangini, Delhomme, McCoy, Shurmur, Weeden. Pretty easy to see why it became a disaster.
Traditionally you guys shy away from "should a, could a" but what else do you want to talk about -- Weeden's footwork?
There are some good arguments to suggest that Heckert really improved the talent on our roster. But, considering the position he was in, where he took those players, the ones he left behind, the moves he did and didn't make, I believe we exaggerate his contributions. A "B" may be a fair grade -- B- maybe.
I agree, McCoy, Delhomme, and Weeden are on the walrus's back.
Barry Bonds Check
Roger Clemens Check
Mark McGuire Check
Lance Armstrong Check
71-79 Steelers Taboo
(Lets pretend it didn't happen.)
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Heckert -- The Good, Bad, and Ugly
|
|
