DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Jonathan Martin Leaves Dolphins After "Incident"

The more that comes out, the harder it is to really whether or not Incognito is at fault.

The voice mail is rather damning ....and there are supposedly more messages like that. Those are really beyond any sense of good taste. However, then his teammates stand up for him, almost to a man.

I dunno. Weird situation. I'm just glad that it's not us.

I am so tired of this story. Dominating sports talk radio. Every host and every idiot caller wants to get their two cents in. The Browns are finally relevant and they are on the backburner.

As much as we all bag on Goodell, this isn't his problem. This is the Dolphins problem, and I'm sick of hearing about it.

I'm with you. It seemed so cut and dry a couple days ago, but now I'm not so sure. Freeagent's and Vers's posts are revealing. Especially FA's regarding the trip that he allegedly got bullied into paying for. It conveniently was omitted that he was supposed to go on that trip, but then backed out.

Vers and FA,
Thank you for posting those links. Those and the related links on those pages are very eye-opening.

I just have one thought, regarding the Dolphins coaching staff.

Supposedly one of the coaches went to Incognito and asked him to "toughen up" Martin.

Knowing Incognito's past, what kind of idiot uses him in such a role? That alone is asking for trouble. I could see using a respected player without a history of violence, but not a guy like Incognito.

I was pretty sure I knew what to think about this whole situation. Now, as I think about what I thought, and think about what I'm learning/hearing, I don't think I thought about what I now think. In other words, my thoughts and some new insights have got me thinking about my thoughts.....thinking what I thought might not be what I now think. I don't know what to think.

I just have to think that if Incognito were that bad, all of these people wouldn't be putting their own necks on the line defending him. They would have to be fairly certain to take that kind of risk to their own reputations.

What happened here was that everybody was so anxious to be politically correct that as soon as they hear "bully" or "racist" they're jumping on the bandwagon as fast as they can, facts or the lack thereof be damned.

Frankly, it's disgusting. No wonder this country is so screwed up.

There is an article on CBS Sports that has enough masked profanity to make it unable to be posted here ...... but if anyone wants to read it, it is titled:

David Cornwell alleges more verbal abuse of Jonathan Martin by Will Brinson.

You can go look it up yourself. It is some pretty vile stuff said about Martin's sister. I probably would have ripped the head off of the jerk who said it, personally.

One thing that's important here is that people who are bullied often try to befriend their bully to stop it. I've seen it happen on multiple occasions. So indications that they might have been friends could be true. But it could also be a crock of crap that Dolphin players are saying because if they knew how bad it was then they're just as guilty.

Dolphins' Richie Incognito allegedly harassed woman
By Chris Wesseling

Miami Dolphins guard Richie Incognito was accused of harassing a volunteer at a golf tournament in May 2012, according to a police report released by the Aventura (Fla.) Police Department and obtained Thursday by WPLG-TV in Miami.

Incognito was not charged for the incident in which he allegedly rubbed a 34-year-old female volunteer worker's privates with a golf club at the annual 'Fins Weekend Golf Tournament.

"After that, he proceeded to lean up against her buttocks with his private parts as if dancing, saying 'Let it rain! Let it rain!'" the report states. "He finally finished his inappropriate behavior by emptying bottled water in her face."

The incident report also indicated that alcohol was involved.

The woman said several people witnessed Incognito's action but did nothing to stop him. She ended up filing a police report because Incognito never apologized.

Dolphins security was contacted, but nothing was done to address the incident, according to the report.

Several months after the organization was made aware of the accusation, Incognito was elected to the Dolphins' leadership council.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000...-harassed-woman

Just listening to this story on TV this morning. I guess they confirmed this report and that a full investigation is starting today.

They weren't clear as to who's conducting the investigation.

Incognito and Martin: An Insider’s Story

Former Miami Dolphins offensive lineman Lydon Murtha pulls back the curtain on what he saw and what he’s heard of the relationship between Richie Incognito and Jonathan Martin, from the locker room dynamic to that now-famous O-line trip to Vegas

By Lydon Murtha

I don’t have a dog in this fight.

I want that to be very clear. I played offensive tackle for the Miami Dolphins from 2009 until the 2012 preseason, when I was released after tearing ligaments in my foot and injuring my back, both requiring surgery. I have since retired, and I’m happily working in the auto industry and living outside of Miami. I went to college at Nebraska with Richie Incognito, and I consider myself friends with him and Jonathan Martin, but I don’t speak with them regularly and I’m not taking sides. I’m only interested in the truth, which is what I’m going to share, from my own experiences and from conversations with friends still on the team.

Before I correct some of the misconceptions and outright lies being reported in the course of this story, let’s first establish who Martin and Incognito are as human beings and their relationship with one another.

From the beginning, when he was drafted in April 2012, Martin did not seem to want to be one of the group. He came off as standoffish and shy to the rest of the offensive linemen. He couldn’t look anyone in the eye, which was puzzling for a football player at this level on a team full of grown-ass men. We all asked the same question: Why won’t he be open with us? What’s with the wall being put up? I never really figured it out. He did something I’d never seen before by balking at the idea of paying for a rookie dinner, which is a meal for a position group paid for by rookies. (For example, I paid $9,600 for one my rookie year.) I don’t know if Martin ever ended up paying for one, as I was cut before seeing the outcom

Martin was expected to play left tackle beside Incognito at guard from the start, so Incognito took him under his wing. They were close friends by all apperances. Martin had a tendency to tank when things would get difficult in practice, and Incognito would lift him up. He’d say, there’s always tomorrow. Richie has been more kind to Martin than any other player.

In other situations, when Martin wasn’t showing effort, Richie would give him a lot of crap. He was a leader on the team, and he would get in your face if you were unprepared or playing poorly. The crap he would give Martin was no more than he gave anyone else, including me. Other players said the same things Incognito said to Martin, so you’d need to suspend the whole team if you suspend Incognito.

Which brings me to my first point: I don’t believe Richie Incognito bullied Jonathan Martin. I never saw Martin singled out, excluded from anything, or treated any differently than the rest of us. We’d have dinners and the occasional night out, and everyone was invited. He was never told he can’t be a part of this. It was the exact opposite. But when he came out, he was very standoffish. That’s why the coaches told the leaders, bring him out of his shell. Figure him out a little bit.

That’s where Incognito ran into a problem. Personally, I know when a guy can’t handle razzing. You can tell that some guys just aren’t built for it. Incognito doesn’t have that filter. He was the jokester on the team, and he joked with everybody from players to coaches. That voicemail he sent came from a place of humor, but where he really screwed up was using the N-word. That, I cannot condone, and it’s probably the biggest reason he’s not with the team right now. Odd thing is, I’ve heard Incognito call Martin the same thing to his face in meetings and all Martin did was laugh. Many more worse things were said about others in the room from all different parties. It’s an Animal House. Now Incognito’s being slandered as a racist and a bigot, and unfortunately that’s never going to be wiped clean because of all the wrong he’s done people in his past. But if you really know who Richie is, he’s a really good, kind man and far from a racist.

In my experience, he’s not the kind of person who would extort someone for $15,000. The notion that Martin was forced to pay for a trip he didn’t attend has been misrepresented.

Playing football is a man’s job, and if there’s any weak link, it gets weeded out. It’s the leaders’ job on the team to take care of it.
Every year, as tradition, the offensive line goes on a big Vegas trip. Everything is paid for in advance, from hotels to a private jet to show tickets. Martin originally verbally committed to the trip, then later backed out after everything was booked. Now, if you can’t go because of an emergency then it’s okay, but to say you’re going and then decide you don’t want to spend the money later? Everything was paid for, and then when it was time to pay up he didn’t want to go anymore. You don’t do that to your brothers. The veterans who paid for it, including Incognito and others, asked for Martin’s share, and he gave it to them. End of story.

The silliest part of this story, to me, is the incident at the cafeteria, in which Martin was supposed to have been hazed when everyone got up from their seats as he sat down. Whoever leaked that story failed to share that getting up from a packed lunch table when one lineman sits down is a running gag that has been around for years. It happened to me more than once, and it happened to Martin because guys on the team say he was overcoming an illness. Just like when a guy is hurt, the joke is, I don’t want to sit with you, you’ve got the bug. Perhaps for Martin it was the straw that broke the camel’s back, but when Incognito reached him after he stormed out, Martin told him the departure had nothing to do with Incognito. Martin said it was something else. Then the media onslaught began.

Incognito was made a scapegoat for the hell coming down on the Dolphins organization, which in turn said it knew nothing about any so-called hazing. That’s the most outlandish lie of this whole thing. The coaches know everything. The coaches know who’s getting picked on and in many cases call for that player to be singled out. Any type of denial on that side is ridiculous. I have friends on more than a dozen teams, and it’s the same everywhere. What people want to call bullying is something that is never going away from football. This is a game of high testosterone, with men hammering their bodies on a daily basis. You are taught to be an aggressive person, and you typically do not make it to the NFL if you are a passive person. There are a few, but it’s very hard. Playing football is a man’s job, and if there’s any weak link, it gets weeded out. It’s the leaders’ job on the team to take care of it.

The most unfortunate thing about this situation is the consequence it will have on the careers of both men. Richie’s marked himself now as a racist and a bigot, and unfortunately that could be the end of it. Martin is on the opposite end of the spectrum, but no more likely than Incognito to return to the NFL if he wants. In going to the media with his problem, Martin broke the code, and it shows that he’s not there for his teammates and he’s not standing up for himself. There might be a team that gives him a chance because he’s a good person, but the players will reject him. They’ll think, If I say one thing he’s going to the press. He’ll never earn the respect of teammates and personnel in the NFL because he didn’t take care of business the right way.

What fans should understand is that every day in the NFL there are battles between players worse than what’s being portrayed. This racial slur would be a blip on the radar if everything that happens in the locker room went public. But all over the league, problems are hashed out in house. Either you talk about it or you get physical. But at the end of the day, you handle it indoors.


http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/07/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-dolphins-lydon-murtha/

Post deleted by PitDAWG

I think you read his post wrong ... he's sort of saying: "I'm NOT doing this to defend Incongnito, I'm doing this because ..."

After taking a closer look, I believe you were 100% correct so I deleted the post.

Thanks.

Quote:

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Incognito and Martin: An Insider’s Story

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I am not saying Incognito isn't weird, but I really think something is wrong w/Martin. The guy's story isn't ringing true w/me.

Yeah, I agree. Troubling.

Quote:

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The more the story changes, the more it stays the same:

Two people with glaring mental illnesses whose flaws are magnified by the story.

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Yup. Sounds about right.

Um...Well... no.

There is nowhere near enough information to state that there are two "glaring mental illnesses" here. Absolutely not.

Context is important, folks. These are two professional football players. Two men at or near the absolute pinnacle of human strength, speed, tolerance for pain, and (generally) aggressiveness. They are by definition already outside of societal norms. The way they earn a living involves actions which, if performed in "normal" society, would get them sent to prison.

I can understand the source of the original comment but Clem, you got more sense than that.

Running into a burning building would ordinarily be considered evidence of mental issues. However, if you are a fireman or your child is in that building, this then becomes an acceptable action. In these cases, NOT running into the building would be considered "abnormal". CONTEXT.

There are lots of meek and mild-mannered people in normal society. VERY, very few of them are NFL offensive lineman. In attempting to achieve the last one-tenth of a percent of performance, actions and words are often used which you would not expect to encounter in normal, day-to-day life. These men are engaged in something far beyond that.

One man may be crass, rude, immature, inappropriate, etc., but he's is a top-quality Olineman. The other may be a nice guy and a bit of a wuss, and also NOT a top-quality Olineman. If it weren't for the second part of both descriptions, nobody would ever have heard the first part.

I don't normally discuss with trolls, but has any professional with the qualifications to do so diagnosed either of these men with a mental illness?

My opinion is both are punks,,,,just in different ways.


One shoves his way through life and the other wets his pants through life. I am glad neither is
on my team.

There are a LOT of pro football players that are often genuinely unpleasant people, that does not mean they have a "mental illness". It takes a different mindset to be an athlete at that level.

Incognito may be better than either one of our current guards, but he would not be our best or most senior O-lineman. I think Joe and some others could keep a lid on him, plus it seems very clear that his Miami teammates want him back on the squad.

Management would probably pass on him, not because of his talent, not because of his conduct, but because of the label that has been laid on him.

Mostly by people who have no idea what they are talking about or are themselves mentally disturbed.