DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Indians' Off Season Begins - Perez Released

JC

Yankees sign Red Sox CF, Jacoby Ellsbury for 7 years, $153M. They still have to deal with Cano, who wants $200M, not to mention a depleted starting staff. I'm kind of hoping the arbitrators rule in favor of A-Rod so they stay on the hook for his $25M per. Good news for Reds fans, a major bidder for Choo is out of the running.

yeah, but did the Red Sox just enter the Choo sweepstakes?

An article on ESPN said the Red Sox felt burned by the whole Carl Crawford thing, and might go with their young phenom, Jackie Bradley, in CF. I think Ellsbury's a good ballplayer, but at 9 HR and 45-50 RBI's per year avg, he's not $22M per year good.

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id...-wind-elsewhere

That Ellsbury contract is insane. I have no clue what the Yankees were thinking. More power to them to waste that money, but I would have NEVER have guessed that money. Wow.

And you're right, it's crazy high for a good-to-very-good centerfielder that steals bases, but they're the Yankees. They can print their own money. They can eat the ARod salary without noticing. They'll still sign Cano and a few free agents pitchers too.

They could probably triple their existing payroll and still make money.

on that same link, Heyman reports that Granderson signed with the Mets for 4yr/$60mil.

losing those 2 guys strips the Yanks of the power in their lineup.

J/C

Carlos Santana Could Be Focus of Rumored, Huge Trade

Jon Morosi of FOX Sports has suggested the Cleveland Indians could be dark horse players in the trade market for Tampa Bay Rays LHP David Price. Morosi thinks the Indians could offer Carlos Santana for Price, and mentions how the Rays would love to have a guy like Santana, under team control on a friendly deal through the year 2017, and how Santana had worked with Rays Hitting Coach Derek Shelton in the Indians’ minor-league system.
To Morosi’s credit, he does admit this deal is speculation on his part. And Indians fans should hope the team isn’t actively considering this move. Although Price fits the bill of an ace pitcher, it would be terribly short-sighted to trade Carlos Santana, the team’s best offensive player.
carlos santana

Santana is often the subject of fan scorn due to his less-than-stellar defense at catcher and often-low batting average. But that’s about where his shortcomings end. He provides good power (especially for someone who can play some catcher) and is an OBP machine (not including an injury-shortened rookie campaign, his lowest OBP total was .351 in 2011, and he’s improved each year since). You don’t just give players like Santana away.
Even if you think new starting catcher Yan Gomes can sustain his 2013 production over the course of an entire season (and for the record, I’m quite skeptical of this, considering Gomes has all of 131 big-league games in his career), trading Carlos Santana for David Price makes absolutely no financial sense for the Indians. None.

Santana is signed to a contract that runs through 2017 if the Indians desire, and will make $3.5 million this year, $6 million the next, $8.25 million in 2016, and there is a team option for 2017 at $12 million, with a $1.2 million buyout. So the Indians are contractually obligated to pay Carlos Santana $18.95 million through 2016 (assuming the option is declined) when he will be 31. For 2014, Steamer projects Santana to be worth 5.2 WAR. According to research by former Wahoo’s On First Editor Lewie Pollis, a win on the free agent market costs approximately $7 million. There is some fluctuation to this number (and I’m completely over-simplifying Lewie’s meticulous work), but we only need a close average to show that if the Indians were paying for 5.2 WAR on the free agent market, they’d be looking at paying a guy big bucks -far more than what Santana is actually going to make.

By contrast, David Price made approximately $10.1 million in his first year of arbitration in 2013 with the Rays. The Rays deferred approximately $4 million of Price’s 2013 salary to 2014, and Price is expected to get around $13 million in arbitration for 2014. So, in 2014 alone, the Indians would be paying Price approximately $17 million. Then in 2015, he’d be expected to make at least his $13 million or so 2014 salary, but likely would make more, especially if he pitches the way the Indians would hope.

This is not a slam on the qualities of David Price, the pitcher. He’s fantastic (though Steamer projects a down year for him in 2014, at 3.8 WAR) and the Rays should rightfully ask for the moon in return for their ace lefty. But a Carlos Santana-for-David Price deal just doesn’t make sense for the Indians. Not only would they give up their most talented offensive player in the deal, but would also end up paying much more money, for only two guaranteed years of Price. The Indians do need at least one more starting pitcher. But Price won’t be cheap, and at that cost, it makes more sense to go all-in and re-sign Ubaldo Jimenez. Giving up Carlos Santana for David Price would be a terrible mistake by the Tribe.

http://wahoosonfirst.com/2013/12/10/indians-deal-carlos-santana-david-price/

I think I would do a Santana for Price deal.

J/C

After searching for some Indians news, why would we be looking to trade an ace, then trade for an ace? I've heard the rumors Kluber for Trumbo, but who would we even get for Masterson? A stud 1B or 3B I would assume:

Report: Indians listening to trade offers for Justin Masterson
By Mike Axisa | Baseball Writer
December 9, 2013 9:55 pm ET

In an effort to secure long-term rotation help, the Indians are listening to trade offers for right-hander Justin Masterson, reports Ken Rosenthal of Fox Sports. The sinker-baller will be a free agent next offseason.

Cleveland is seeking rotation help this winter after losing Scott Kazmir and likely Ubaldo Jimenez to free agency. Masterson is their best starter, but there's no harm in listening to offers. Quality starting pitching is hard to find and some team could always make an offer the Indians can't pass up.

Masterson, 28, had a 3.45 ERA (109 ERA+) and 1.20 WHIP in 193 innings last season. He led baseball with three complete game shutouts and finished the year in the bullpen because of an oblique injury. Masterson has thrown 180+ innings in each of the last four seasons.

Clubs like the Orioles, Yankees, Blue Jays, Angels, Rangers, Mariners, Braves, Phillies and Pirates could have interest in Masterson. The Tribe should have no trouble drumming up offers, but finding a team that will give up a long-term rotation option for him will be a bit more difficult.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-base...ustin-masterson

I would trade Asdrubal Cabrera right now, actually I would have traded him last off-season. I Francisco Lindor is ready, if he isn't I think Mike Aviles can handle SS til late June, early July:

Report: Indians may be willing to trade Asdrubal Cabrera
By Dayn Perry | Baseball Writer
December 10, 2013 11:52 am ET

The Indians, who are already willing to listen on Justin Masterson, may also be willing to part with shortstop Asdrubal Cabrera, tweets Jon Morosi of FoxSports.com. As Morosi subsequently notes, the contending Indians are able to consider moving Cabrera only because top prospect Franciso Lindor, a shortstop, is in the pipeline.

As for Cabrera, the 28-year-old is coming off a 2013 season in which he batted .242/.299/.402 with 14 homers, 35 doubles and nine stolen bases. For his career, Cabrera owns an OPS+ of 107. While Cabrera doesn't grade out as a defensive asset at the position, the bat certainly makes up for it.

Even with the Cardinals out of the shortstop market with their recent signing of Jhonny Peralta, there should still be plenty of interest in a player like Cabrera.
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-base...sdrubal-cabrera

Indians should be willing to trade Asdrubal, the problem is finding someone willing to take him.

Francona has already come out and said that Masterson is not going to be traded, so take that for what it is worth.

The Price for Santana thing is pure speculation (click the link). Spaghetti on the wall (though we apparently did put in a call to TB).

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Big trade today with Trumbo though.


AZ: Trumbo
Angels: Santiago, Skaggs
White Sox: Eaton

interesting trade though I'm not high on Eaton. he seemed out of his element (though he's very young). makes sense for D-Backs as Trumbo + Goldschmidt will be pretty scary for pitchers to face.

Angels get 2 young pitchers with high upside.

and the Rockies have given up on Pomeranz:

Oakland A's traded Brett Anderson to the Colorado Rockies for Drew Pomeranz

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/rockies-acquire-left-hander-brett-anderson-from-a-s-221900086.html

Pomeranz needed to get out of colorado.

I would trade Santana for Price. I would also trade Masterson, if it meant we had the money to sign Price long term. Price is a true 1 this teams needs to compete for a championship.

Don't you think Masterson will want 100 million if not more? The guy is an innings eater, rarely gets hurt, I could see him getting 100 million with no problem. Price will probably want 175-200 million. The indians have to take some chances. Their farm system is killing them. So hard to get better when you don't have guys ready to fill in. Trades is our best bet right now.

John Axford, Indians near deal

December 15, 2013
By Buster Olney | ESPN The Magazine

The Cleveland Indians are on the verge of signing right-handed reliever John Axford, who was non-tendered by the St. Louis Cardinals, a source said Sunday.

The 30-year-old Axford pitched 54 2/3 innings in 2013 for the Milwaukee Brewers, but he was removed from the closer role after six blown saves and was traded to the Cardinals in August.

In 10 1/3 regular-season innings for St. Louis, Axford gave up two earned runs, walked three and struck out 11 with a 1.74 ERA.

Axford was called upon six times in the postseason, striking out four and giving up one earned run against the Pittsburgh Pirates and Los Angeles Dodgers. In two World Series appearances, he didn't allow a hit and struck out five in 2 1/3 innings.

His seven total blown saves in 2013 were the second-most of his career.

Axford reportedly had drawn interest from several teams this offseason, including the Chicago Cubs.

Axford is better than Perez, but he's not a shutdown closer. However, at the price I'm guessing (1/5.5), its not a bad deal and allows some payroll flexibility to add something else.

I hope that 1.52 WHIP last year was an anomaly.

Yeah, i have no idea wtf Indians are thinking, there are MUCH MUCH better options out there..i rather just give it to allen or shaw than that scrub. I think Balfour was a reasonable option..

IMO axford is the worst pick of the available closers...typical shappy deal

keeping allen/shaw in setup roles keeps their arb costs lower and plenty of stats show just as much importance to team winning. so, i get that part.

balfour apparently is asking for the moon. same with rodney.

but, there are alot of low-cost options out there that I'd think were better than axford. crain was my choice (if his shoulder checks out). i really hope they feel confident that they can fix axford (and have backup options for if/when he fails).

i thought i read somewhere we had a 2 year offer in on benoit

Astros Sign Matt Albers

The Astros have agreed to terms with right-hander Matt Albers on a one-year, $2.45MM contract with a club option for 2015, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (Twitter links). Albers, who is represented by SSG Baseball, will earn $2.25MM in 2014 and has a $200K buyout on a $3MM option for 2015.

Reports earlier this month indicated that Albers, a Houston native, had already received at least one two-year offer from an interested team. Perhaps the allure of once again playing in his hometown caused the soon-to-be 31-year-old to leave some guaranteed cash on the table.

Albers posted a 3.14 ERA with 5.0 K/9, 3.3 BB/9 and 63.8 percent ground-ball rate in 63 innings for the Indians. Over the past two seasons, he has parlayed his ground-balling ways into a 2.77 ERA in 123 1/3 innings. Albers is the second free agent reliever signed by the Astros this offseason, as GM Jeff Luhnow also brought right-hander Chad Qualls back to Houston on a two-year, $6MM contract.

The Astros have also been linked to Jose Veras, who has stated a strong desire to return. Evan Drellich of the Houston Chronicle reports that a Veras reunion is indeed still a possibility despite the addition of Albers (Twitter link).

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/12/astros-to-sign-matt-albers.html

Indians sign Marcum to minor league deal. All reward, no risk. This year's potential Kazmir signing (Marcum was coming off 4 pretty good years before getting injured):

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/12/16/indians-sign-shaun-marcum/

I cannot understand why people haven't changed their perceptions of the closer role. I don't want Allen or Shaw touching the ninth inning most nights. Coming in for that situation is a waste of your best pitchers. I want them and Scrabble pitching in the highest leverage situations.

Now, I'm also not someone who discounts the closer role entirely. It does take a different mindset than the 7th and 8th innings do. But, it doesn't mean that it has to be your best pitcher.

Axford is a very good combination of these roles, especially at the price. He was subpar two years ago and in Milwaukee last year. Even in his struggles, it still wasn't his stuff that was reported as the issue. But the trade to St. Louis was amazing. His stats were incredible. Even in his bad times, he was still striking out a batter per inning. Statistically, he's also been exceptionally unlucky the past few years. His BABIP against last year was through the roof. He has got to get his home run rate under control, but I see no reason why that is impossible for him.

Further, while its a one-year contract, he would technically be under team control for three more years with arbitration.

There's a lot to like about this offer, a huge bounce-back potential, and very limited risk. What I like most about it, however, is the fact that the $4.5 mill contract probably allows the Indians to add another piece. Signing Benoit (at three guaranteed years) or Balfour probably would have eliminated that possibility.

The Indians have made good on this type of deal in the past, and I like that Calloway seems capable of finding a pitcher's weakness and mistakes and fixing them.

I look at the work he did last year getting Masterson, Kazmir, and Jimenez back on track last year. I think that these 2 deals are worthwhile risks.

Drew Stubbs Traded for Josh Outman

CLEVELAND, Ohio – The Indians filled a hole in their bullpen Wednesday as they acquired left-hander Josh Outman from Colorado for outfielder Drew Stubbs.

The Tribe has lost Chris Perez, Joe Smith and Matt Albers from last season’s bullpen. They’ve filled the holes with closer John Axford, whose deal is still not official, and Outman.

Outman was 3-0 with a 4.33 ERA in 61 relief appearance for Colorado last season. He dominated lefties, holding them to a .198 (22-for-111) batting average. Right-handers pounded him, hitting .347 (34-for-93).

He averaged 8.83 strikeouts and 3.83 walks per nine innings.

The 29-year-old Outman has appeared in 121 games in the big leagues with the Rockies and Oakland. He’s 12-11 with 4.61 ERA in his career.

Outman apparently will replace lefty Rich Hill, who filled the role of left-on-left specialist for the Tribe in 2013. Hill is a free agent.

The Indians acquired Stubbs last December from Cincinnati as part a three-team deal that included Arizona. Stubbs opened last season as the starting right fielder. He appeared in 146 games, hitting .233 (100-for-430) with 21 doubles, two triples, 10 homers and 45 RBI.

Stubbs, who struck out 141 times, posted a slash line of .233/.360/.305 – batting average, slugging percentage and on base percentage. The natural center fielder played a good right field and stole 17 bases in 19 attempts.

However, he went into a long slump as the Indians were driving for the AL wild card. Stubbs hit .188 (18-for-96) from Aug. 12 through the end of the season.

Stubbs became expendable when the Indians signed free agent David Murphy to a two-year $12 million deal. Murphy, a left-handed hitter, is expected to get most of the playing time in right field in 2014.

Outman and Stubbs are eligible for arbitration this winter. Stubbs, according to mlbtraderumors.com, is expected to earn close to $4 million. Outman, 29, was projected to earn $1.4 million. He made $675,000 last season.

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf..._special-report

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Well, I think his last name is very bullpen appropriate.

With last year's extension of Ryan Rayburn (Right-handed right fielder) and this offseason signing of Murphy (Left-handed right fielder) the writing was on the wall regarding Drew Stubbs. And I think that is unfortunate....cause I was really hoping Drew would get his offensive game up a bit. I thought he was perfect in our lineup for all the other reasons-- great defender, speed and the bottom of the lineup to coincide with Bourn and Kipnis as we went back to the top. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to get it together at the plate. best of luck, Drew.

I think this article mentions this but I think Outman replaces Rich Hill (thank god). I think this puts us at three lefties in the bullpen-- Outman, Hagadone, and Rzepczynski. It will be interesting to see what they do, because I thought Rzepczynski played well for us, I know the Indians still like Hagadone and they just traded for Outman. I don't think bullpens are normally equipped with three lefties, are they?

I'll miss watching Stubbs go from 1st to 3rd, or chasing down flies to the gap. He has great wheels. Too bad he could never learn to make consistent contact, because with his speed he should get 20-25 infield hits and bunt singles a year.

Well, Outman is a straight up Loogy, so he's a situational guy only. Rczp... Scrabble I too thought pitched pretty well last year. Looks to me like a shot across the bow at Hagadone, or at least makes him a pretty realistic trade chip.

Teams don't typically keep 3 lefties, but I could see them keeping Hagadone as a long-man, since he used to be a starter.

Axford
Shaw
Allen
Scrabble
Outman

Then two of:
Pestano
CC Lee
Hagadone
Wood
Capps
Carrasco
Herrmann
Barnes
Price

Is it too much to hope that both Hagadone or Pestano bounce back this year?

I really like the way Carrasco looked coming out of the bullpen, but I really hope that he is able to transfer what he showed coming out of the bullpen to become a plus level starter.

I loved how Carrasco looked out of the pen. I know, right now, they say they will give him a chance to win that #5 job, but I'd move him to the pen right now. Add some length and heat out of the pen.

I'm really, really hoping that Vinnie was just dealing with the idiocy that is the WBC and its effects. He had nothing last year. Nothing at all. Hagadone has the stuff, he just cannot control it. I see him and Bauer in the same light. They both have electric stuff and just need to pull it in a bit to get to that next level. Some pitchers just can't do that though.

I look at the great work that Calloway did last year, and I just hope that he has a few more reclamation projects in him for this year.