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The play of Campbell and Hoyer I doubt will have much impact on what the Browns do in the draft.
It would depend on how the Browns grade the other QB prospects.
I'll leave the rest of your post out and focus on these two things.
I don't know how they have Bridgewater and Mariota evaluated so I won't speculate on them trading up to get one of these guys if the opportunity is there.
I believe how they have all of these QB's ranked and what they see their value determining everything. I believe that includes all of the QB's in this draft, not simply the 2 you mentioned.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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...Will we even see both back here next year?
I would expect so barring a trade for a top QB. The way I believe it may shake out is that Campbell is retained for the veteran presence (and he can win games) and Hoyer is also kept as we may (or may not) have a diamond in the rough. The question then becomes, as expecting that we will keep 3 QB's, whether you retain Weeden or draft the QB of your choice. I think we all know the answer to that...
They'd better be.
Given that they're both on 2 year deals (my admiration for this FO grows by the day) and both showed that they can cut it as a backup at minimum, there's no reason to cut either. Let them compete with each other in the off-season with the loser going to the backup spot.
Like you said, the question is who fills that 3rd spot... but it's pretty clear who it isn't going to be.
We're... we're good?
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j/c
I keep reading that the FO will want to get "their guy". Are not both Hoyer and Campbell guys brought in by THIS regime?
What if the FO sees Hoyer as "their guy". We know Lombardi does.
I don't want any of the likely-available QBs through a trade-up in the next draft. I do not see the value or talent. I'd consider one when our turn rolls around (any pick)...and I might even "overdraft" a guy (think McCarron)...but I'm not using two picks - ANY TWO PICKS - on ANY QB in this draft.
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Just a general reply...
It's always fascinating reading how the human mind works. We tend to favor upside and hope when it comes to QB's. That's very-much the nature of the beast in the desire to find the next superstar QB.
Both Hoyer and Campbell have two games as starters in the color Brown. Campbell has a track record of being a middling QB with an ideal skillset and will be 32 next year. Hoyer has no track record at all with a moderate skillset and will be 29 next year. The two games Campbell had were superior to what Hoyer produced. In spite of that it appears a majority want Hoyer to win the job.
This isn't about who is better as much as a simple observation on how we oh-so desperately feel the need to find a great QB.
As for personal opinion, I don't expect Campbell to end the year with a 100 rating. That would be bonkers. Having followed Campbell more closely than most since his days at Auburn, I can say I'm seeing that he's matured...finally...as an NFL QB in terms of him processing information at an NFL level and executing. The flair for play-making has been the thing which has flat-out surprised me. He can't be expected to make the kinds of plays he has in the two games, especially as Ddub has noted when saying we have no running game to speak of. However, if he keeps up this level of maturity, I wouldn't want to bet on Hoyer over him just because I'm hoping he's got more upside. That seems like a great bit of overvaluing for no other reason than hope.
I'm also not of the mind that we have to draft a QB just because. We've done that for years, and have produced failures...for years. Sometimes, good enough is good enough while the rest of the team is built. I'm going to wait and see how this overhyped QB class plays out prior to the draft.
Now for a reference that makes me  Jason Campbell wins AFC offensive player of week Posted by Darin Gantt on November 6, 2013, 10:41 AM EST Baltimore Ravens v Cleveland Browns Getty Images Jason Campbell proved his toughness and his composure last week, and he was rewarded for it. The Browns quarterback was named AFC offensive player of the week, after coming back from a rib injury to snap an 11-game losing streak against the Ravens. Campbell was decisive and calm, throwing three touchdown passes against the league’s best red zone defense. He’s the third quarterback the Browns have started this season, and he has proven at different points in his career to be a good-enough quarterback. And at the moment, that’s good enough for the 4-5 Browns.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Toad, it was your line about "we can win with McCoy if we have a top-2 defense" that got me thinking about this.
Our D is currently solidly in the top-10 and getting better. Coupled with an offense that can move the ball, score points, and not leave the D on the field all day long, IMO this D could be top-5.
We have top-5 pass-catchers in Gordon and Cameron. We have a good pass-blocking line with ABW at QB.
All three of our Third String QBs have started, won, and played well. They have looked dramatically better than our First-Round starter. IMO we don't need a Great QB, just a Good one, and we already have two.
Get a WR2, Guard, RB and with this D, a good one will be good enough.
What about Murray of Georgia? He had a nice comeback last week. Good play in the clutch. Draft a guy like this late first / early second, sit him for a year.
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Normally I'd say something like, "Don't pat yourself on the back too hard", but you've giving Campbell so much love for so long you definitely deserve it right now.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Right now Bridgewater and Mariota stand out. How do the Browns perceived them? You are right we do not know. I can only say at this point that I believe either guy would be worth making a move for.
It is also my belief that the Browns want to find their guy. Does that mean that they will sell the farm for one of those two if the opportunity presents itself?
I think they will.
The performance of both Hoyer and Campbell versus Weeden clearly indicate that the Browns can be competitive with decent play at the QB position. That has to confirm to them that finding the right guy will lead to even better things.
Once Mariota and Bridgewater are gone and not taken by the Browns it changes things because the other prospects have not displayed that level of play and their draft status is still to be determined.
There are reasons why Bridgewater and Mariota are at the top of the rankings.
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There's no Andrew Luck in this draft, and there probably won't be one next year. Maybe Winston, but I don't see him as this once every 3 decades prospect like we called Luck.
I do. I think Winston is that good. I also love the kids attitude and the way he approaches the game and his teammates.
If you told me today that we could start the 2015 season with Luck or Winston and I had to decide today, it would be a tough call.. the only real factor that might cause me to choose Luck is that I've seen him do it at this level and all I have is belief that Winston can.. but I'm 99.9% certain he can.
Given that any player in the draft is always a risk - no matter what the scouts and experts say or think - the idea of taking any rookie ahead of Luck or that it would even be a remotely close decision - is strange to me. Give the the cast iron NFL proven talent of Luck any day of the week and three times on Sunday !
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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I'm also not of the mind that we have to draft a QB just because. We've done that for years, and have produced failures...for years. Sometimes, good enough is good enough while the rest of the team is built. I'm going to wait and see how this overhyped QB class plays out prior to the draft.
I don't think we have to draft a QB just because, I think we have to do it because it makes a ton of sense. What scenario can you think of where we wouldn't want a young QB this year?
- Campbell locks himself down as a starter and we can win a Super Bowl with him? Yep. Even if he's good until 35 or so I'd want a 25-26 year old high upside guy who's had time to soak up knowledge under Norv ready to take over.
- Campbell/Hoyer are solid starters but can't win it all? Yep. I'd want someone with the upside to get us to the next level to replace them as soon as he's ready.
- Campbell/Hoyer are solid backups? Yep. I'd want to swap them for the rookie as soon as possible because there's no point trotting out journeymen QBs.
- Campbell/Hoyer regress and we need to replace them ASAP? Yep. In this scenario, if we DON'T have a guy waiting in the wings, we're looking at a lost season until we can get him there and then more growing pains while he gets ready.
Having a solid guy in place doesn't afford us the luxury of not taking a young guy, it affords us the luxury of not having to reach or trade our whole draft to get him. We should still take a high upside guy early and let Norv shape him into a franchise QB on the sidelines while Campbell/Hoyer get the job done. We've been afforded the luxury of development time with a rookie this year... that (lack of) development time is likely the reason why we've "produced failures" over the years. It would be crazy to finally have that opportunity and let it go to waste.
We're... we're good?
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the idea of taking any rookie ahead of Luck or that it would even be a remotely close decision - is strange to me.
Part of that is probably me knowing that Luck is not an option, which I know goes against my own parameters for the discussion...
I was really just trying to make a point to the post that said they don't see a prospect coming out with as much hype as Luck in the next couple years.. I think Winston will have that kind of hype.
yebat' Putin
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The nice thing is that we can continue to play Campbell (hopefully) the rest of the season and see what we have with him under Center. This team is far from ideally built for a guy like Campbell. He is an excellent play action QB who doesn't have a run game. He is not a super mobile QB on a team that has given up a ton of sacks. He is a guy without a history of a quick release or fast decision making, yet he has shown major improvement in these regards this year. While it is always dangerous to extrapolate from just 2 games, right now he is on pace for a 16 game season of 61% completion, 4500 yards, 40 TD and 0 INT.  lol Yeah, it is really dangerous to extrapolate from limited data.  LOL Regardless, let's say that he finishes up the year averaging 250 yards/game, and winds up with somewhere between 17-25 TD passes in 10 total starts, and doesn't turn the ball over a great deal. What then? That's not that far out of the question. 17 TD passes for the year would be 12 in the next 8 games. I think that's realistic, given the proficiency he has shown in this offense so far. Maybe he had 20 total TD passes, matching his career high, but in only 10 games, and has 6 INT. Heck, give him 9, with one really bad game. What if he winds up with 2500 yards, 20 TD and 9 INT over 10 starts? I'd have a hard time pulling him at that point. Now, of course, if the bottom falls out at some point, and he struggles mightily, then that's a different story. However, I think that he only has 1 game with 3 INT in his career, and not a large number of 2 INT games. If he shows the ability to move the team and score TDs, then he might be the answer. I do like the fact that he attacks outside the numbers and down the field more often, and accurately than Hoyer does. Hoyer is a very solid guy in the short passing game, but he doesn't seem to have the same acumen for the deeper passing game that Campbell shows. Campbell seems adept throwing to all levels of the field. He's not Peyton Manning, but there aren't many of him floating around. The coaching staff and front office could have some interesting decisions when the off-season rolls around.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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If Bridgewater and Clowney go 1-2, at number 3 I think you definately throw in the additional picks and take a shot at Mariota.
He's the wildcard.
What's the eyetest telling you?
Barry Bonds Check
Roger Clemens Check
Mark McGuire Check
Lance Armstrong Check
71-79 Steelers Taboo
(Lets pretend it didn't happen.)
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I really don't know about the QBs this year. Ordinarily I would pay attention, but this year I really haven't. We never take the guys I like anyway.  lol
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Right now Bridgewater and Mariota stand out. How do the Browns perceived them? You are right we do not know. I can only say at this point that I believe either guy would be worth making a move for.
It is also my belief that the Browns want to find their guy. Does that mean that they will sell the farm for one of those two if the opportunity presents itself?
I think they will.
I believe if they actually feel one of these two "are their guy" they will as well. I'm simply not sure if that's the case. I'm open to the possibility that while they may stand out in this draft class as better than the rest, that may still not be enough for this FO to see them as being worthy of moving up for in the grand scheme of things.
Once again I believe it all boils down to what they actually believe these two QB's are worth. One thing I disagree on here is that they will see both of them that way. I think "their guy is their guy", not an either and or type of thing.
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The performance of both Hoyer and Campbell versus Weeden clearly indicate that the Browns can be competitive with decent play at the QB position. That has to confirm to them that finding the right guy will lead to even better things.
I agree with you here as well. And I firmly believe this helps dispel what was a popular rumor that we simply didn't have the talent here to win.
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Once Mariota and Bridgewater are gone and not taken by the Browns it changes things because the other prospects have not displayed that level of play and their draft status is still to be determined.
There are reasons why Bridgewater and Mariota are at the top of the rankings.
I agree with you here once again. My question is when looking at their play on its own, if this FO believes either is worth the big ticket of moving up for.
I believe if this FO actually feels it's better for the long term benefit of this team to wait another year to address the QB issue, they will do so. I don't see them willing to sell the farm for what they don't perceive to be a solid answer long term in regards to a franchise QB.
We can look through a microscope at one draft and see who looks top tier, but what we can't see is if this FO fails to see any of them being a rock solid answer. I believe they want to hit a home run here. And if they feel they may only get a double instead of a home run, they'll wait for a better pitch.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Mariota immediately jumped out to me the first time I watched him.
Stands tall in the pocket, great footwork, executes quickly, quick release, good arm, good accuracy, steps into his throws.
When he steps out the pocket its men vs. boys time. He's incredibly quick and agile. When he runs, he's fast. Game fast. Throws well on the run.
Good football instincts.
Oh, he's like 6 4'
Haven't seen him get rattled. Maintains poise and stays cool when things aren't going right.
(Man, I'm pimpin this dude.)
He passed the eyetest on his first game as a freshman, and he's progressed ever since.
ps. not a duck fan
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JAX and Tampa are very likely taking Bridgewater & Mariota (in some order) with the first 2 picks and laughing at anyone trying to trade-up to get one of them.
#gmstrong
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Well ... teams who may look hard at QBs, and who may pick ahead of us include:
Houston (Is the UDFA rookie really the answer?)
Jacksonville (QB, definitely, absolutely, 100%)
Oakland (They have Tim Tebow part 2 right about now. Good runner, sub par passer ... and they are one of the worst scoring teams in the NFL)
Giants (Yeah, they have Eli, but it may be time to look at taking a guy while they have an opportunity to grab a QB without having to trade up)
Minnesota (With even just a decent QB this team is a playoff team)
Tampa Bay (Is Glennon the answer? They are the 2nd worst scoring team in the NFL, above only Jacksonville)
Arizona (The Carson Palmer experiment has failed)
St Louis (Though less likely than any of the others in my opinion)
These 8 teams well could wind up with a worse record then us, and all could take a QB. A couple are less likely than others, but all have the potential to take a QB if the right one falls to them.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Well ... teams who may look hard at QBs, and who may pick ahead of us include:
Houston (Is the UDFA rookie really the answer?)
Jacksonville (QB, definitely, absolutely, 100%)
Oakland (They have Tim Tebow part 2 right about now. Good runner, sub par passer ... and they are one of the worst scoring teams in the NFL)
Giants (Yeah, they have Eli, but it may be time to look at taking a guy while they have an opportunity to grab a QB without having to trade up)
Minnesota (With even just a decent QB this team is a playoff team)
Tampa Bay (Is Glennon the answer? They are the 2nd worst scoring team in the NFL, above only Jacksonville)
Arizona (The Carson Palmer experiment has failed)
St Louis (Though less likely than any of the others in my opinion)
These 8 teams well could wind up with a worse record then us, and all could take a QB. A couple are less likely than others, but all have the potential to take a QB if the right one falls to them.
You forgot Pittsburgh.
*edit* Also, the Rams shave something like $10MM against the cap if they trade or cut Bradford in the offseason.
Last edited by clevesteve; 11/06/13 06:55 PM.
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I would also add Kansas City. Alex Smith is nothing more than a stopgap. If that team had a real QB they would be the best team in the NFL.
Also, depending on how Foles does the rest of the season Philadelphia.
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I don't think that Pittsburgh will be on the market for a QB. Rothlisberger is on of the few things they actually have working for them. He's still "only" 31. They have so many other, bigger problems, and are also missing their 3rd round pick, (thank you Joe Banner) so I can't see them using their 1st round pick on a QB.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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J/C...
1. Campbell has been a project...he did not come to us as the QB we saw on the field vs. Ravens.
2. Norv has worked hard with him his release has changed among several other things.
3. Weeden also was being transformed and taught. He was showing vast improvement on the Practice field.
4. Hoyer probably had the least physical attributes of the 3 but was the one Getting It the best.
5. Weeden just was not bringing the PRACTICE GAME to the REAL GAME...what ever he was learning it wasn't sticking.
6. When he got hurt, they leap frogged Campbell, I don't think cause of his contract but because Hoyer was the most IN THE KNOW of what the coaches wanted. I don't see how any dawg can question why Hoyer n not Campbell. Is our memory that short???
Statistically Campbell is doing better. But just like we wished that Weeden would learn seeing HOW THE QB POSITION IS PLAYED...it is safe to say so did Campbell and I think that is exactly what happened. It started to come to him watching Hoyer...also maybe a little miffed he was jumped over instead of Pouting and doing a cancer thing...he got more determined and put in an extra effort.
He went from Check downs in preseason to going downfield and making good presnap reads.
Every should not assume the QB we are seeing was there all along. He was not this QB coming to him and he has praised Norv Turner for teaching him and changing him.
Hoyer Gets it. Campbell Gets it. Weeden wants to Get it but simply has failed at it.
In closing I think we will be NOT moving up in the draft. We all know this has a way of changing all along like Rodgers we new were being discussed in comparison of Alex Smith and they were originally bouncing back n forth as ONE/TWO QB...then as the draft got closer n NFL leaks to the draftnicks come out...Rodgers was dropping a lot...Well out of our #3 slot as to not even be a discussion for us to go for him there.
I know in the discussions of Smith vs Rodgers I was a Rodgers guy...but he had been slotted so far from our #3 my interest in pimping was Shawne Merriman.
So who knows who is ranked high n low...come May it will get a little more accurate. But I seriously do think Johnny Maziel is in our future. Maybe with our First Rounder??? Maybe with the Colts late First Rounder??? Who knows as mentioned I don't think we move up (maybe a later slot or two???) I'm not a superstitious guy so if the Colts pick is #22 - and we want Manziel or another...Go for it. Don't bring BQ or Weeden form #22's into it. 
JMHO
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Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Since you put this thread up, I've been kinda thinking more and more about what the next step might be.
We have both Hoyer and Campbell under contract for next year. And I firmly believe we can get either or both of them to stay a year beyond that if needed.
Both have, to a degree, shown good skills. Perhaps some of the best we've had here (really, we need a bit more playing time for each to say that with conviction)
But to me, what that means is that we have two QB's we can win with. so the rush to stretch to get a franchise QB isn't really there.
Do we need to get one, yeah, we do. But we don't have to reach. We have the luxury of time..
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Maybe we should take a QB at 22, if that's where we wind up ..... because maybe 3rd time is the charm?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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"But I seriously do think Johnny Manziel is in our future."
=================================================
Why do you think that? Is this the guy you want or is this the guy you think the Browns want?
Banner will make the call on the quarterback. Yes, he will listen to Lombardi, Chud, and Turner but he will have the final call. Given that I do not believe that Manziel will be a Brown.
The reason is risk reward. Manziel is hardly a NFL prototype. He is like Fran Tarkenton. Tarkenton of course was a very successful NFL quarterback. But his style of play was difficult to work with. He was not a system quarterback. He made plays. He did not execute given plays. Manziel has personal baggage. He is not a safe, low risk, pick. That does not mean he will not be a good quarterback. To me it means he will not be a Banner pick.
Banner will be looking for a guy like McNabb. A prototype NFL quarterback. He wants accuracy, size, mobility, leadership. Manziel does not fit the mold that I think Banner wants.
Again my opinion but I think Banner would sell the farm to get Mariota. At the same time he would be thrilled to get a shot at Bridgewater.
Carr, McCarron, Mettenberger, Murray, and Bryce Petty are all guys who would get consideration.
I just do not see Manziel as a Banner guy.
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Maybe we should take a QB at 22, if that's where we wind up ..... because maybe 3rd time is the charm?
Well, it's better than taking one at 29.
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"But I seriously do think Johnny Manziel is in our future."
=================================================
Why do you think that? Is this the guy you want or is this the guy you think the Browns want?
Banner will make the call on the quarterback. Yes, he will listen to Lombardi, Chud, and Turner but he will have the final call. Given that I do not believe that Manziel will be a Brown.
The reason is risk reward. Manziel is hardly a NFL prototype. He is like Fran Tarkenton. Tarkenton of course was a very successful NFL quarterback. But his style of play was difficult to work with. He was not a system quarterback. He made plays. He did not execute given plays. Manziel has personal baggage. He is not a safe, low risk, pick. That does not mean he will not be a good quarterback. To me it means he will not be a Banner pick.
Banner will be looking for a guy like McNabb. A prototype NFL quarterback. He wants accuracy, size, mobility, leadership. Manziel does not fit the mold that I think Banner wants.
Again my opinion but I think Banner would sell the farm to get Mariota. At the same time he would be thrilled to get a shot at Bridgewater.
Carr, McCarron, Mettenberger, Murray, and Bryce Petty are all guys who would get consideration.
I just do not see Manziel as a Banner guy.
I think you are right. Just based on what we have seen so far, it doesn't seem like a move they would make. Who knows though.
I do think the way the coaching staff is assembled (although it could be slightly different next year, I expect Norv to be around though) and with how the locker room is, that it would be a good atmosphere to bring a guy like that into. He's not a criminal or anything. I just think he has some maturity issues. What he does at A&M on the field is hard to translate to a bigger, faster, and stronger NFL.
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I'll be watching LSU-Alabama this Saturday to see how Mettenberger fares. I have a feeling that he is going to be in a lot of people's eyes come April.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
I'll be watching LSU-Alabama this Saturday to see how Mettenberger fares. I have a feeling that he is going to be in a lot of people's eyes come April.
Yup, it will be the first tape the scouts and GMs put in for this upcoming draft.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Any Browns fan that has an interest in possible quarterback selections probably should tune in to the game tonight.
Oregon at Stanford.
Mariota is going up against a very good college defense.
The game is at Stanford.
If Mariota has weaknesses this test may reveal them. Tonight we will see what he brings to the table.
If he plays well in this game it not only shows us his character/competitivness but it will probably be more valuable in the Heisman race due to the strength of Stanfords defense versus Clemsons (Winston being his main competitor at this time).
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Also Baylor vs. Oklahoma gives Bryce Petty (and Lache Seastrunk) a test against some better competition. Should be interesting as well.
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Banner will be looking for a guy like McNabb. A prototype NFL quarterback. He wants accuracy, size, mobility, leadership. Manziel does not fit the mold that I think Banner wants.
From what I've seen on the field, the only one of those Manziel doesn't have is size.
yebat' Putin
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Banner wants to be aggressive. What is more aggressive than taking Joe Manziel?
I hope we take him, sit him for a year, and then unleash him on the league.
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Quote:
Banner wants to be aggressive. What is more aggressive than taking Joe Manziel?
I hope we take him, sit him for a year, and then unleash him on the league.
Hell of an athlete, but then so was Colt McCoy. And isn't McCoys college record better than Manziel? I haven't checked so I could be wrong.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Manziel is not McCoy. He is much more elusive and has a much better arm. They are both from Texas, are smallish, and are white. That is it.
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Quote:
Manziel is not McCoy. He is much more elusive and has a much better arm. They are both from Texas, are smallish, and are white. That is it.
Manziel is small as is McCoy, and white (although I don't know why that matters) and is from Texas and is a College Phenom. Much better arm yeah, and more elusive,, not sure. probably.
Point is, they have more in common then not.
But I get your point. He's a better QB. But as always, Small,, How does that translate to the NFL.. few of his size make it..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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What scenario can you think of where we wouldn't want a young QB this year?
One where the product isn't worth the investment?
We'll have to see where we're at come draft day, but we're falling behind in the losses column.
I don't want to see us draft Manziel just because we needed a QB and the upper-tier is off the board.
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"Why do you think that? Is this the guy you want or is this the guy you think the Browns want?" Ok let me do this Backwards. Banner will not have as much say as you think...without a doubt he will have the final - DO IT...involved but he listens to Lombardi when in regards to personnel.
Without a doubt it will be Lombardi's call.
Now to answer the question above.
I read a month or so ago that we were sending Farmer to Manziel's Games...and it was plural. Ever since then I started DVRing A&M games. I even taped a Texas Tech game by mistake 
My choice when we were not getting RG3 - was Bridgewater...but I have realized that ain't happening. And w/Hoyer n Campbell playing well in the system we can hold back a little and look at a QB to Groom.
Personally - I have been very please with what I see. In the NFL we would never RUN him of course they way they do in college. But he can throw from the pocket very accurately...he gets rid of the ball quick he hits small Windows - he doesn't lock in as much as other college QBs and he has that MAGIC that "IT" factor.
He can learn under Norv/Chud as well as have a good mentor in Hoyer or Campbell who could easily start and prosper while he does learn. When he is ready...First game, Mid Season, Bye Week, or 3 years like Rivers after Brees studded out.
All the prototype stuff - ehhh...I'm looking at footwork, release and accuracy...I like what I see.
Off the field problems...ehh pretty minor comparatively...no drugs right? No theft right? A little ego stuff waiting to start the season after being the first FRESHMAN Heisman winner...ok He's not beating women.
I"m ok with that part.
This Winston kid will be a great QB in a couple of years. But we won't be able to sniff that Overall #1 pick. Manziel might drop due to his shoulder - especially after the season they say he will need minor surgery. College's abuse there players knowing they got them or a couple of years.
But we will not be a team that will "HAVE TO PLAY HIM...right away" we can let him heal, let him learn. All I know is I want "SPECIAL" on this team and he most definitely is that.
JMHO 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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You are making wild speculations. You don't know that Banner is making the decision. In fact, Banner has said several times that Chud, Farmer, Lombardi, and himself make the decisions together.
We really don't know what kind of QB Banner favors. Methinks he favors one that can win. I think he'll let Farmer, Chud, and Lombardi do more of the evaluating.
You forgot to mention that Manzel is similar to Russel Wilson and the latter is doing pretty darn good in the pros.
I think there is a lot of evaluating to be done and nothing is even close to being set in stone at this time.
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Oh lord this is a great problem to have. We have two guys who may be good enough to win with, and we will not be forced to reach. We can take our time and go after the guy we really want. If we have to move up to get him that's fine we can do so. If we think he will be there later in the first round we can grab him then, or if we think he will be there in 2015 we can work with that as well. Man it's nice to have choices
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Banner wants to be aggressive. What is more aggressive than taking Joe Manziel?
I hope we take him, sit him for a year, and then unleash him on the league.
Joe Manziel? Is he Johnny's cousin?
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