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In my view, you have to draft a QB that has talent. That's not to say that they won't have some flaws, but they will have natural ability and be able to be coached up and taught how to be a better QB.
True that.
But as has been already said, the hard thing is to evaluate how well they can learn to read defenses and coverages quickly. That is hard to determine if you haven't seen them do it. My wonder of wonders is by what method do they quiz a draft prospect to determine how well, and quickly, one can learn these specific needs.
All the talent in the world won't overcome an inability to quickly read coverages and throw to the right receiver on time. That, in my opinion, is of utmost importance. Maybe the most important skill a QB can have. Any young QB with a reasonably strong, accurate arm and a little athletic ability has what it takes talent-wise. But the mental aspect is the deciding factor and how can they determine that? I'm sure there's plenty of GMs who think they have a bead on it but with the glut of crappy QBs having been drafted I wonder just how much they really know in figuring that out.
The wonderlic sure isn't the answer. Some very good QB's have had very low wonderlic scores. And some very bad ones have had high scores. I'm not certain the scouts and GMs get much time with any of these guys before the draft. I'd love to know by what criteria they judge their mental ability.
All this is why I'm not as excited about a QB as I have been in past years. Hell, we have one on our roster now who has all the talent he needs but is football stupid. Even our resident QB guru at the time couldn't determine his mental ability.
I've got a fair bit of confidence in Lombardi as he was the one, supposedly, who brought in Hoyer and Campbell. There was a lot of book on Campbell but on Hoyer he had far less to go on. Campbell may have been the default since he's had some success in our type of offense and it was only to be determined if he still had it or not. But Hoyer's a different animal. Lombardi had to have seen, (or heard), something about Hoyer's football smarts. Maybe Belichick told him. But I'm hoping it's something he saw. That would mean he has a knack for seeing the mental part of their game based on very little in-game experience.
Here's hoping someone in the organization knows something because otherwise we're going to keep trotting out slow-minded, talented QB prospects onto the field and hope for the best and likly get the worst.
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We could of had Sanchez. We have NYJ the pick to get him (thankfully)
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I don't believe you draft a QB based on "need".
Actually point blank...YOU DO...in here lies our problem I guess. You are so off base with that comment I got to just point it out and stop there cause I got to run...not much more to say on that anyways.
Football Draft 101: If you don't have a franchise QB you need one. If you have the opportunity to draft one you feel certain is a franchise QB then you do it.
On the other hand, I think I know what Pitt is getting at. Drafting a QB for need is exactly what got us Brandon Weeden. A total stab in the dark based on need. You really have to be sure the QB can become a franchise player if you're drafting him. I don't know that The Big Show was sure about that at all regarding Weeden. I think it was just as Lombardi called it: A panic move made in desperation. Same goes for TRich which makes the possibility of Weeden being just that, all the more likely.
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We could of had Sanchez. We have NYJ the pick to get him (thankfully)
Thanks. Brainfart on that one 
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And we already had Couch and took KW2 who was a soldier until he busted his knee.
I've always maintained that Rothlisberger was the guy we missed on. He went 11 and opted to move up from 7 to 6 giving up a 2nd round pick for KW2.
But the statement of we already had Couch...if you remember at this point we already Gave up on Couch and had signed the FA Garcia to be our starting QB...it would have been a perfect time to draft a rookie and let him sit a year.
Oh and Pit I'm back...regarding my statement on YOU DO DRAFT A QB because of NEED...let me expound on that FACT.
1. QBs go well ahead of where they should cause of their rare success in the NFL. So that a 2nd or 3rd round QB will go usually in Mid to late First. There is not one team that will have a QB as BPA for their slot unless its in the top 3 picks. And if there is NO NEED FOR A QB they usually trade that slot for a kings ransom.
2. I'm talking the only people that will take an impact pick (which is normally considered 1st n 2nd round picks are those who have a NEED.
3. I'm not talking about middle to late round picks...those are stab in the dark picks not answering a need but hoping to at least get a good back up. Not the Franchise guy...some luck out.
4. Please don't give me all the exceptions. Wilson, yes he became the starter and now we know the Franchise QB but at the time they paid a lot of money for Flynn to be their Guy the draft of Wilson was a stab in the dark hoping he would be a good back up...
So when you take a QB in the first round or early 2nd Its out of need. The 49ers are one of the few but that tells you they did not believe Smith was their guy and was hoping a raw Kaepernick would develop.
Tannehill for example does not merit the overall #7 pick in the draft...but because of the POSITION of QB it get draft day value...ONLY TO A TEAM OF NEED.
Sorry don't mean to insult you in any way...but you were so so wrong in that statement of YOU Don't draft a QB out of need. Its like the one position you do. Or I would state the 4 Rare Positions that all concern the AIR GAME.
1. QB 2. LT 3. Pass edge Rusher 4. CB
These are the rare talents in the NFL and I can see the need getting them drafted. Usually there are big runs on these and because of those runs the #2,3,5 ranked of that position get moved up well before their slot times.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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CHRIST HAS RISEN!
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Drafting a QB for need is exactly what got us Brandon Weeden.
Not saying its the right thing to do...But I will tell you this ddubbia, if we didn't have the need we never would have taken him at 22 or in the 2nd round. Miami wouldn't have taken Tannehill...Vikings would not have taken Ponder. Browns would not have taken BQ. I am not champion the DECISION...just stating the fact.
Unfortunately there is a fine line between Need and Desperation - I think the Weeden pick was an act of Desperation.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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the hard thing is to evaluate how well they can learn to read defenses and coverages quickly.
That is exactly WHY I don't even try to evauate QB's and why I don't trust anyone including most GM's to do it..
I get the biggest kick when I read some ones post breaking down a QB, it's absolutely laughable to read a poster break down a QB... Oh they are great at it when its obvious but until it's obvious forget it...
Hell Chud and Turner both trotted out Weedon this year because they simply did NOT know what they had, need I say more??? Most likely the QB smart posters are warming up their key boards as we speak... Save yourself and do what I do, admit you don't really know.... But thanks for trying...
The KEY is identifying your guy, then getting him.... Much easier said then done, but I actually trust these guys to do just that. Their long term planners, they set the table back in Sept when they traded away TBDD to draft a QB, so I think they have some one in mind already, now they just need to get a deal in place... But its plane to me at least they didn't pile up picks to draft a RB, WR, LT, RG, LG or anything but a QB, and hey lets be real honest here about a couple of things we didn't need more picks per se, what we need is a frnchise QB...........
I would give up our entire draft for the right guy and never look back.. In fact I would have them ready a spot to put the Lombardi's.......... 
BTTB
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I actually do know but can't get it right anyways...lol  you are correct its the toughest position to evaluate and that is from the "MASTERS" of evaluations... I do look and know technique.
Weeden was a funny decision I think it just shows you that PRACTICE is one thing - Game situations is another. I remember watching DA 2009 against the Jets in NJ went inside early to watch the Browns warm up. I was amazed at DA. Every throw was tight and accurate...every throw in warm ups...then onto 7 on 7's - still amazing then we went into some 11 on 11 drills...he could hit the broadside of the barn...it just happened like night n day poof the magic was gone.
Well they watch Weeden last season (all the film on games n practices) saw his flaws and were teaching him the corrections. He was getting it in practice - then the games came in the beginning you can see the effort to right the wrongs...but soon enough he reverted back to his old ways of holding onto the ball, etc. Once they named him the starter they had to stick with him...how long??? Don't know but the Thumb injury came at a perfect time and wow Hoyer was impressive all but two games but the next better than the first!
This past game I saw Campbell revert like Weeden to his flaws. He looked like the QB I saw in preseason who could not beat out Weeden. So so hard to evaluate QBs.
Lately the Great ones are obvious. Stafford took some time but he looks great. Bradford his teams suck but is great (Archie Manning career?) Cam Newton was to be raw n a possible bust but working out great. Luck great just hope he doesn't become damaged as he is one of the most HIT QBs in the NFL. There are fewer and fewer Mirer's and Leaf and Harringtons - But its once you get past that top 5 now that is a crap shoot if you ask me!
JMHO Oh and when I stated Masters of evaluations I'm talking about highly regarded GMs Coaches and Scouts...NO ME 
Last edited by eotab; 11/23/13 12:11 PM.
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All you can do when trying to evaluate a college quarterback and projecting him into the NFL is to cover as many bases as you can.
You have a checklist. (Reference Bill Parcell's checklist.) You watch film. You look for the things that you know will be expected of him in the NFL. You have to be accurate though first and foremost.
But at the end of the day you just never know. Some guys can have every physical tool required and be a mental midget. I remember Jeff George. Man that guy could chuck it. But what a head case.
The two guys that stand out to me as "can't miss" were Peyton and Luck.
For me, the first time I saw Luck play as a junior I was blown away. It wasn't just the results. It was the way he played; his form. He just did everything the way it is coached to do. All that on top off great physical tools.
The unknown part of the process though has got to be leadership. The quarterback ultimately has to able to lead a group of men. That comes through performance, preparation, and dedication. It is demonstrated by his day to day work ethic. Winners like Peyton, Luck, Wilson, Brees etc. they do not have off field issues. They are squeaky clean off field.
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Hard Knocks was covering the Jets when Sanchez was "their guy". He was in a QB meeting with Brian Schottenheimer. Brian was "coaching" him on what to say and how to be a leader. I knew right then he was going bomb.
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"the hard thing is to evaluate how well they can learn to read defenses and coverages quickly."
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Some of that can be spotted on film. But at the NFL level it only comes from experience. How quickly can they process the information. Brandon Flipper Weeden from the first time I saw him always looked like he was two beats behind. Like a drummer who could not keep time.
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One thing for sure though you have to pull the trigger when you don't have one. You can not be gun shy. You do as much home work as you possibly can do; then you turn in the ticket.
I am so nervous about this coming free agency and draft. It means so much for the Browns. They have to get this right. A mega step forward or 3/4 years lost. Man I hope they get this one right.
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Quote:
I don't believe you draft a QB based on "need".
Actually point blank...YOU DO...in here lies our problem I guess. You are so off base with that comment I got to just point it our and stop there cause I got to run...not much more to say on that anyways.
Okay, let me rephrase it. You don't reach or put a high pick investment in the draft at the QB position simply out of need. Our history over the last 14 years points clearly shows that it's not wise.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't believe you draft a QB based on "need".
Actually point blank...YOU DO...in here lies our problem I guess. You are so off base with that comment I got to just point it our and stop there cause I got to run...not much more to say on that anyways.
Okay, let me rephrase it. You don't reach or put a high pick investment in the draft at the QB position simply out of need. Our history over the last 14 years points clearly shows that it's not wise.
The problem I see is kind of 2 fold... But before I start let me say this Pitt either way you say it IMO your wrong.
If you want to have a champioship caliber football team you have to have a great or nearly so QB..........
And there are NO safe picks well almost no safe picks.. So the real question is do you have the balls to step forward do your home work and then cross your fingers and hope...
Most posters want a franchise QB they just don't want to get burnt and there just is NO safe place to hide, so you have to get over it.. Well you have to get over it if you want to be great that is.....
QB's come from every round and fail at the rate of 50% when picked in the 1st round, that makes most people into chickens.....
As I see it at this time we HAVE got to find that final piece or we become the Cincy or Ravens of the 20teens.. I have no stomach for being just good I want great and I will gamble the draft if need be to get the last piece and should I fail if given the chance again in the future I would do it all over again.. You can't . foot your way around this position you have to attack until you succeed..
This regime has shown they are willing to be bold and be wrong and that my friends is the combo that is required to go for it..................
Identify and get the guy you most believe in. Based on the prior moves of this regime and the stocking of picks they plan a bold move in the 2014 draft and it won't involve anything but getting the QB to take this team to the top...................................
There is NO safe draft picks and certainly not when it comes to QB. If you know what you need, and we do go for it.....................Identify and grab your guy forget the cost.............
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There is NO safe draft picks and certainly not when it comes to QB. If you know what you need, and we do go for it.....................Identify and grab your guy forget the cost.............
Uh huh. Tell that to the Redskins. Three 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder for RG3. Good luck winning with that. Buy into the hype and become a disaster.
You folks forget that St. Louis has two 1st rounders and they're likely both higher than our own.
If you must get your QB in the 1st round, take Mettenberger if he falls to you. If not, take Carr if he's there. Otherwise, you're wasting your picks.
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How many QBs have we missed a chance at?
Of the good quarterbacks we passed on here is the list. (Ignoring 2012 for now).
Kaepernick, Aaron Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Romo, Brees, Brady, McNabb.
The only player we probably should have taken from that bunch was Roethlisberger. And we already had Couch and took KW2 who was a soldier until he busted his knee.
The Browns haven't really missed that many opportunities they had to take good QBs. In the year they took Quinn the only other QB was Russell. In the year they took Couch there was only McNabb and Culpepper. Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Kaepernick, and Romo all slid past many teams and have exceeded their expectations.
I think the only guy we truly missed on was not selecting Roethlisberger...and I can live with that. As the 2012 crowd develops we might have missed on Wilson or Tannehill.
Good input
I always thought the different. Hard thinking Roethlisberger a franchise QB coming from Miami (OH). After him and Flacco I gave smaller school a little more respect.
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Uh huh. Tell that to the Redskins. Three 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder for RG3. Good luck winning with that. Buy into the hype and become a disaster.
The Redskins did the right thing now they have to put players around RGIII the Browns have most if NOT all of the pieces and no QB..
But I will do you one better lets say we gave up our 2 1sts along with this past years 1st which would mean we gave up Weedon, TR, and Mingo I don't know about all of you but if I could do it over I would do that deal for RGIII every single time.
RGIII on this team and we are headed for the SB not just the PO, the guys around RGIII aren't anywhere near the quality of the Browns not even close in fact....
So the real question has yet to be answered but in the end RGIII will become a real sore spot for Browns fans you just haven't thought it thru and RGIII has had some injury issues but that will clear itself up and in the end you ALL especially if we don't land our own Franchise QB bemoan the day PF blew the RGIII deal.....
I know i do NOW....
BTTB
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The Redskins did the right thing now they have to put players around RGIII the Browns have most if NOT all of the pieces and no QB.
Giving up the future for RG3 (who isn't the Redskins future) was idiotic.
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But I will do you one better lets say we gave up our 2 1sts along with this past years 1st which would mean we gave up Weedon, TR, and Mingo I don't know about all of you but if I could do it over I would do that deal for RGIII every single time.
Well, I wouldn't have for anyone less than Andrew Luck and I would have been hard-pressed to convince myself of that.
Also, considering that we were able to get a first rounder back in return for Richardson and Mingo has been doing fine so far. He needs more work but that will come with more work, conditioning and coaching. Weeden was a total bust and we'll be lucky to get anything in return for him but if we can recoup ANYTHING it should be seen as a minor victory.
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RGIII on this team and we are headed for the SB not just the PO, the guys around RGIII aren't anywhere near the quality of the Browns not even close in fact....
Says you. That's conjecture on your part and not even based on anything factual.
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So the real question has yet to be answered but in the end RGIII will become a real sore spot for Browns fans you just haven't thought it thru and RGIII has had some injury issues but that will clear itself up and in the end you ALL especially if we don't land our own Franchise QB bemoan the day PF blew the RGIII deal.....
RG3 is already making the Redskins into a laughingstock. Who or what is PF and how did they blow the RG3 deal?
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Drafting a QB for need is exactly what got us Brandon Weeden.
Not saying its the right thing to do...But I will tell you this ddubbia, if we didn't have the need we never would have taken him at 22 or in the 2nd round. Miami wouldn't have taken Tannehill...Vikings would not have taken Ponder. Browns would not have taken BQ. I am not champion the DECISION...just stating the fact.
Unfortunately there is a fine line between Need and Desperation - I think the Weeden pick was an act of Desperation.
JMHO
I see what you're saying now. And Brown To The Bone elaborates on it very well in his reply to Pitt.
Not that I didn't agree with your premise to begin with but I was trying to explain what I thought Pitt was saying and point out that it did make some sense. But now, especially after Bone's post I can see it doesn't make sense.
It was an awful risk when QBs were getting paid in the $Zillions from the 1st round. But now that there's a rookie scale the risk is not nearly so bad. The Browns are an example of this. We drafted a 1st round QB two years ago and are able to do it again because of the smaller rookie contracts. In years past, before the rookie scale, we'd have been stuck with that goof for the next 4 years because of the money.
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You can keep your picks and draft great players but until you get that franchise QB you're going to suck until you do get one.
You'll be the same team we are now only on a higher level, that is, having enough talent to win but can't because you don't have a QB. This could go on for years and years if the FO is not willing to trust their own evaluations and take a QB. They just have to go with the one they determine is best.
I don't think you can value the picks over a franchise QB. But you do have to trust your ability to choose a QB who can develop into your franchise guy.
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Based on my analysis above I really think we only missed out on a clear chance to take Roethlisberger. (and arguably Rodgers who inexplicably fell).
I think with quarterbacks it may be a better option to go after free agent QBs. I will now go about seeing if that is the case. Obviously you can't just sign a guy like you can in the draft, but I think Peyton, Brees, and Cutler *edit I think Cutler was a trade* being on new teams points towards FA being a viable route when you simply don't have a chance to grab that top guy.
I think a mixed approach would work best. For example had we not botched Garcia I thought it was a brilliant signing. The guy was lights out for the eagles after stinking it up here and in detroit. Could have sat Roethlisberger or Rodgers behind him for a few seasons easily.
I'll get on the QB FA history list now.
Last edited by Kingcob; 11/23/13 11:23 PM.
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I don't know how Rodgers is arguable.
We passed on him for Braylon.
(I loved the pick.)
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NFL free agent / tradeable QBs (the ones I deem decent and homer biased)
2013: Flacco, Smith, Campbell, Hoyer, Freeman
2012: Manning, Smith, Campbell
2011: Smith, Hasslebeck
2010: Pennington, Delhomme
2009: Warner, Collins, Favre, Vick
2008: Anderson, Pennington
2007: Garcia, Schaub (RFA)
2006: Brees, Garcia, Kitna
2005: Hasslebeck, Brees (Francised), Garcia
2004: Manning (cap concerns), Bulger, Garcia
2003: None
2002: None
2001: Flutie, Griese, Holcomb(Homer), Kitna
2000: Kitna
1999: Gannon, Collins, Green
Oddly to me it looks like 1999 might have been our best chance to grab a free agent QB. I'd take Gannon or Green over Detmer to start the franchise if I could do it over. It is a smaller pool to grab a talented guy from. Most of the guys making this list are aging or talented backups at best. I excluded a few guys like Gus Frerrotte, Dilfer, and Tony Banks multiple times along with guys of similar talent like Grbac, Volek and Brad Johnson.
Guys like Manning and Brees (I excluded Carson Palmer) had injury histories and were being replaced by younger QBs. I think taking a shot with Garcia was a very good move that was handled poorly. And rolling the dice with Favre or Warner if we had the chance would have been a good move.
FA seems like a place where you can only get a spot starter, or at best an aging vet being replaced by a 1st round QB on his former team. I think if a talented guy like Cutler slips into FA you have to take a shot at him.
This list will be spotty and more biased than my draft list. Feel free to crtique it or note flaws, it was much harder to compile.
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Only really arguable in hindsight now that Rodgers is amazing and Braylon is out of the league. At the time it made sense.
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Quote:
Only really arguable in hindsight now that Rodgers is amazing and Braylon is out of the league. At the time it made sense.
I could make a very strong case that it didn't make sense with two names:
Charlie Frye
Trent Dilfer
And I wanted us to draft Rodgers so badly it hurt. So did Eo.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Quote:
Only really arguable in hindsight now that Rodgers is amazing and Braylon is out of the league. At the time it made sense.
I could make a very strong case that it didn't make sense with two names:
Charlie Frye
Trent Dilfer
And I wanted us to draft Rodgers so badly it hurt. So did Eo.
Rodgers was really raw coming out of Cal.
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Only really arguable in hindsight now that Rodgers is amazing and Braylon is out of the league. At the time it made sense.
No, it didn't.
Some people had Rodgers going first overall. We missed him. We missed several others. And did you really say something like we had Couch so you could see passing on Ben?
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RG3 is already making the Redskins into a laughingstock. Who or what is PF and how did they blow the RG3 deal?
What universe do you live in???Honestly do people look to the sky when they wave at you???
There is NOTHING this team needs more then to shore up the QB position the defense is on the verge of greatness the offense needs a RB and depth in the skill spots TE/WR and a Linemen or 2 but nothing earth shattering... Oh sure you can always upgrade but man we need very little outside of a QB..
With the defense we do have, and the building blocks we do HAVE on offense this is the perfect time to bring along a young QB...
I understand we are just kicking it, but man look at how this FO has handled things up until now. They are bold and daring and they aren't afraid to make bold moves.... In other words they dare to be GREAT and if we are going to be great that s-p-e-l-l-s franchise QB....
I believe they have already identified the guy they want and have aligned the picks needed to get him.
Hint: Watch FA this off season if you see pot holes being filled we are about to dump our draft for a QB......
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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PDR...on the Rodgers thing...I've notice that the draft sites which is all most of us have to go on as we are not privy to any NFL war rooms. They will have Rodgers up there fighting Alex Smith on who will be #1. I know in those debates I wanted Rodgers. Then after the combine - note they all do about five more Drafts including Kiper. Why? Is their assessment wrong. I think this is their SB they are using every bit of info they can get on and when they here several NFL scouts in this case from teams that are not picking a QB cause they got one a Guy like Rodgers drops from the top 3...then 5 - to the point that weeks before the draft I gave up on pimping him cause they are all pretty accurate in their Mocks for the top 10...he was no where in sight for that. The shock was how far he dropped but it was noted if X team doesn't take him he can drop all the way to Y.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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j/c
After watching the games yesterday, I know I definitely want NOTHING to do with Mariota or Manziel.
Neither of those guys is anywhere near ready for the NFL. If they were smart, they'd both stay another year...maybe two in Manziel's case. (Sorry man, that dude is way to small...height, weight, stature.)
I cannot imagine anyone taking either of those two guys in the top half of the 1st...if anywhere at all in the 1st. (Knowing some team will do it...I would not.)
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My hindsight about those picks isn't really well thought out. I was mostly focusing on making the list. I didn't really analyze either of those drafts at the time, I was in high school. I figure if Rodgers fell into the 20's then a lot of people skipped him for some reason. I don't know why we passed on Roth for KW2. Already having Couch was likely a factor. Maybe playing at Miami Ohio or something else in his game was also a factor. Or just general incompetence of the FO. Some people clearly understood the mistakes at the time, I tip my hat to you fine gents  Side note: It was funny combing through the free agent QB list and seeing Jim Harbaugh and Jason Garrett pop up in the early 2000s.
Last edited by Kingcob; 11/24/13 11:19 AM.
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hear in lies why its so hard to evaluate college QBs...what I saw.
1. His worst game in his career...btw his 2nd wort came against LSU last season (probably why we were impressed with Mingo  )
2. Manziel saw Man defense (what he will see in the NFL) while most other QBs will see nothing but Zone.
3. Manziel saw constant pressure and hardly any bottom pocket integrity...while many other QBs will have all day long to throw.
4. The wind was blowing quite a bit...the only real weather factor with QBs.
5. A&M is a 1-2 win team without Manziel.
6. A&M D sucks one of the worst in Division 1A football. Manziel has to score every possession not doing so adds so much pressure on him, I thought that mounting pressure was very visual with him.
7, btw I was impressed with his patting on the back of some defensive players who made some great plays. I thought that showed some GOOD CHARACTER...
These are not excuses but facts that have to be utilized with evaluation.
What I do know again its the toughest evaluation to make in football - toughest transition there is college to Pros.
Again who knows. I know a lot about QB play maybe if I'm there for practices I can get a better read but there are so many variables out there making it such a tough evaluation. I just know we are evaluating him...he should slide to our Mid First round pick. I do not want selling the farm to move up for the 3rd best QB in this draft. I'm going to defer on this one
In Lombardi/Chud/Norv/Farmer I TRUST! 
I still like the kid. I wouldn't judge him on the LSU game I won't judge him against nobody college. What I do know whoever we pick Norv can work with him on the release and other technique as we Start Hoyer!
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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You can keep your picks and draft great players but until you get that franchise QB you're going to suck until you do get one.
You keep telling that to yourself. Are the two QBs that were in the Super Bowl franchise type QBs? Did SF get rid of the wrong QB? Is Flacco worth the money that he was given? Both were in the Super Bowl last year. All you need is a competent QB with competent players around him and you have a shot. That's all you can really ask for out of your team. A shot.
Where are those two QBs going to be this year? Will SF be in the Super Bowl this year? Will they even make the playoffs? (Don't look now, but Arizona is breathing down the necks of the 49ers.)
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You'll be the same team we are now only on a higher level, that is, having enough talent to win but can't because you don't have a QB. This could go on for years and years if the FO is not willing to trust their own evaluations and take a QB. They just have to go with the one they determine is best.
Why? They already brought in Hoyer, who the evaluator (Lombardi) has high praise for. Unfortunately, he went down in only his third start of the season. Maybe they'll draft a QB (and I fully expect that they will) but I'm not sure that it'll be a first round QB. They shouldn't feel any pressure to draft one in the first round.
Is Hoyer the answer at QB for the Browns? Maybe not. I don't think that the answer is quite clear yet. What we do know for certain is that the answer at QB for the Browns isn't Weeden or Campbell (and one, if not both, will be gone beginning next year).
At this moment, my guess is that the Browns select a QB in the draft (whether that is in the first round or not, I don't know) and maybe sign a new QB with backup experience or sign an additional UDFA QB to be the #3 QB on the roster.
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I don't think you can value the picks over a franchise QB. But you do have to trust your ability to choose a QB who can develop into your franchise guy.
Maybe there aren't any 'franchise QBs' in the draft. Are Bridgewater, Mariota, Manziel considered 'franchise QBs'? I laugh at that notion. Of that group, Bridgewater might actually be the best and he isn't one, in my view. Zach Mettenberger or Derek Carr are the best of the available QBs and personally, I think they'll both be gone by the time the Browns are selecting. I wouldn't touch the others in the first round. I wouldn't even consider Bridgewater, Mariota or Manziel before the 3rd round, period. The only one of those 3 that I would consider then is Bridgewater, only because I think he could be taught how to play the game at the NFL level.
Manziel and Mariota are RG3 all over again, except with a worse mental make-up. No thanks.
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There has been opinions posted about this drafts quarterbacks. I have been looking at them. Although it is still early and more information may come to light; up to this point I have some thoughts.
Teddy Bridgewater is a very good pro prospect and I would love to have him. In my opinion he is the most pro ready of this years college class. I am not going to get into why I think that at this stage only my conclusion.
However, in the long run I think Marcus Mariota will be the best of this class of qb's. Mariota has elite skills. If you watch this guy closely they are on display. Yesterday his team got beat and his remarkable streak of no int's ended. But his skills still jumped out of the TV screen.
I came across this article about Mariota as a person that I thought was very interesting:
http://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/index.ssf/2013/11/how_marcus_mariota_leads_the_o.html
If there is any chance of getting Marcus Mariota he is the guy I want the most. Things have to fall in place in order to get him but if it happens I will be one very happy Browns fan.
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RG3 is already making the Redskins into a laughingstock. Who or what is PF and how did they blow the RG3 deal?
What universe do you live in???Honestly do people look to the sky when they wave at you???
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000285614/article/teammate-rgiiis-comments-were-coldblooded
And this isn't the first time he's made stupid comments and having been called out by his teammates for them. Sadly for the Redskins, I think that Shanahan will end up taking the bullets for Snyder's decision to trade away the franchise for the hype that surrounded RG3. What's even more sad is that there were those (among the ranks of those posting messages here) that were of the belief that the Browns should have given up even more to secure RG3 with the Browns.
I would ask you what planet you live on, but I already know the answer. One where everyone is blind.
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There is NOTHING this team needs more then to shore up the QB position the defense is on the verge of greatness the offense needs a RB and depth in the skill spots TE/WR and a Linemen or 2 but nothing earth shattering... Oh sure you can always upgrade but man we need very little outside of a QB..
Punctuation man! Punctuation!
Maybe the front office drafts a QB. Maybe one in the first round. But I don't see them trading up to get one. I don't see them drafting a QB named Mariota or Manziel under any circumstances. They might take Bridgewater if he's available, but I wouldn't count on that if there is a QB named Mettenberger or Carr on the board also. If Mettenberger or Carr are there, they might pull the trigger. If not, they'll draft either a TE (Jace Amaro, Sefarian-Jenkins, Ebron?) or a WR (Robinson, Matthews?) or maybe some DB help.
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With the defense we do have, and the building blocks we do HAVE on offense this is the perfect time to bring along a young QB...
Bring along? If you're drafting a QB early (by trading up?) in the first round, you had better have the intentions of starting him from Day #1. You don't trade up to get a QB to sit him for a while. You don't draft him for the opportunity to 'develop him into your franchise QB'. That's laughable! Indy didn't draft Luck to sit him. The Redskins didn't trade up for RG3 to 'develop' him. He was going to start. Miami didn't draft Tannehill to develop him. He was going to start from Day #1. Period.
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I understand we are just kicking it, but man look at how this FO has handled things up until now. They are bold and daring and they aren't afraid to make bold moves.... In other words they dare to be GREAT and if we are going to be great that s-p-e-l-l-s franchise QB....
They're bold but they aren't stupid. The previous FO was 'bold and daring' and it got them fired. They were bold to draft a 28-y.o. rookie QB in the first round and handed him the starting job without having him earn it. They traded up one spot, giving away valuable picks to get a RB they could had drafted at #4. That draft pick was sent packing by this front office two games into the season.
This front office isn't going to move up and cave into the fans who are driven by media hype about certain players. It isn't going to happen. I thank God that Haslam hired Banner and Lombardi. I'm more concerned by some of the decisions that Chudzinski has made.
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I believe they have already identified the guy they want and have aligned the picks needed to get him.
That and a dollar will get you a lottery ticket.
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Hint: Watch FA this off season if you see pot holes being filled we are about to dump our draft for a QB......
Hint: Watch the draft to see if we draft a QB in the first round.
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hear in lies why its so hard to evaluate college QBs...what I saw.
1. His worst game in his career...btw his 2nd wort came against LSU last season (probably why we were impressed with Mingo )
2. Manziel saw Man defense (what he will see in the NFL) while most other QBs will see nothing but Zone.
3. Manziel saw constant pressure and hardly any bottom pocket integrity...while many other QBs will have all day long to throw.
Agree on all three accounts. One of the things I have pointed out to people all season is that the Texas A&M offensive line isn't quite as good as people think it is, certainly worse than last year. Mike Matthews switched from right to left (though he has played at an All-American level again). Ogbehi moved from guard to tackle (again has played decently, and a lot of people project him as a second round pick if he leaves early). But the biggest issue us the interior. A second year starter, a red shirt freshman, and a redshirt sophomore who had'nt taken nary a snap until this year.
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4. The wind was blowing quite a bit...the only real weather factor with QBs.
Yeah both QBs struggled with putting zip on their passes.
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5. A&M is a 1-2 win team without Manziel.
I disagree with this. I'd put them at 6-6 without Manziel Still a tone of young talent on the team. Mike Evans. the two tackles I mentioned, Trey Williams, DeShazor Everett, and if Manziel wasn't playing the very talented Kenny Hill would be. He is not Manziel, but a highly touted recruit who has played well in spot situations this year.
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6. A&M D sucks one of the worst in Division 1A football. Manziel has to score every possession not doing so adds so much pressure on him, I thought that mounting pressure was very visual with him.
7, btw I was impressed with his patting on the back of some defensive players who made some great plays. I thought that showed some GOOD CHARACTER...
I said going into the season that the defense would kill us all year. Losing deMontre Moore, Spencer Nealy, Sean Porter, Jonathan Stewart, and Steve Terrell (all on NFL rosters) of a 20th ranked D has hurt. So now we 13-16 freshmen and first year players playing on the two deep. A ton of talent there, but loads of inexperience, and I think that causes Snyder to coach to cautiously. Manziel has had to shoulder the balance of that. And as to the good character, I'd say that off the field issues aside, I've never heard of a soul saying anything negative about Manziel when it comes to the locker room and on the field.
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I've always maintained that Rothlisberger was the guy we missed on. He went 11 and opted to move up from 7 to 6 giving up a 2nd round pick for KW2.
Yeah, but's he's a sexual predator. So no thanks.
We really have three choices for next season. Hoyer if he is healthy( Campbell or trade for/sign a vet already in the league. We won't be drafting high enough to take one of the top three QB's on the board. The Jags, Bucs, Vikes AND Texans are all going to be looking for a quarterback in the draft. The Redskins have set the price for trading up to get one pretty damned high. I figure we will draft a QB with the Colts pick late in the first, or even lower and try to groom him over time. If Braxton Miller doesn't shoot up the board I could see that pick at some point. Big arm and can run, kind of like Cam.
fact is we probably messed up not taking E.J. Manuel last draft.
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I think we will be drafting top 7 so it really depends on who comes out and what we think of them. I doubt that the Jags/Vikes would trade Bridgewater regardless of what we offered ad I've mentioned. However, if we like Mariotta, Hundley, etc. then we could either trade up or just draft them where we are.
I really think we have no choice but to draft a QB high or sign a competent starter. Weeden and now Cambell have been awful, and Hoyer simply is an unknown. If I were in the FO I would be beating the drum to pay whatever the number 1 pick holder wants for Bridgewater.........good chance they wouldn't answer our call, but I would definitely call.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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1st String
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I think the FO should focus their draft on building other areas of the team,if the QB they want isn't there to pick.No point in making things worse by taking another crap QB,and wasting valuable picks.Keep adding to the defense,add a WR,RB,G ect and wait until the QB they want comes along.
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Quote:
I think the FO should focus their draft on building other areas of the team,if the QB they want isn't there to pick.No point in making things worse by taking another crap QB,and wasting valuable picks.Keep adding to the defense,add a WR,RB,G ect and wait until the QB they want comes along.
I wish we had a choice. I think we gotta see if there is something there in this upcoming draft.
But honestly, if the guy they think is the answer isn't there, no sense it breaking the bank to get another guy they don't believe in.
I've been under the opinion that we had two guys that could do the job in Hoyer and Campbell. I'm of the belief now that Hoyer may still be a strong Backup but Campbell, while possessing all the tools, isn't the answer.
I'd like to see us dump Weeden because he's clearly not the answer, keep Campbell and Hoyer and draft someone to develop if the guy the want isn't there when we draft.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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If Braxton Miller doesn't shoot up the board I could see that pick at some point. Big arm and can run, kind of like Pryor with a lesser arm and less size.
Edited by Willie
I'd rather have Guiton at the end of the draft.
Last edited by WSU Willie; 11/24/13 07:13 PM.
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I may totally be in the minority here, but I think if we can, we should make a deal to get Mark Sanchez off the NY Jets.
Sanchez wasn't that bad in 2011 and 2012, he has playoff experience, he is still young, and he has actually won games in the NFL.
Playing NY is just that...it can be pretty cut throat...much more cut throat then any other place in the NFL.
I think a change of scenery is EXACTLY what Mark Sanchez needs, and why not here in Cleveland? I think we can win with Sanchez...and face it...evne if we have to give up a 2nd rder for Sanchez, he is better then any QB on our roster, and he is probably better then most of the QB coming out this year...of course I bet we could get him for a 3rd...and maybe a player.
Then next year you go in with Sanchez, Hoyer, and a late rd draftee.
We can use that those 1st rd picks to get a big time WR, and perhaps some OL help, and try to sign RB Tate out of FA....Sanchez has proven that he can play in this league....I think he has a lot of upside, and to be honest if we can get Mark Sanchez for a 3rd...it would be a mistake not to kick those tires...Sanchez is big, strong, accurrate, and young...he has all the tools you want in QB....and he has experience....if he don't work out, then in 2015 you draft your QB out of a much stronger class...JMO
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There is a thought that RGIII might be available
RGIII asked Redskins not to show his bad plays
By Kevin Patra
Around the League writer
Published: Nov. 24, 2013 at 11:13 a.m.
Updated: Nov. 24, 2013 at 12:49 p.m.
Robert Griffin III and Mike Shanahan are trying to settle their differences within the Washington Redskins' facility.
The quarterback and his coach met earlier this week to try and hash out their issues after it seemed like RGIII threw the coaches under the bus when he said the Philadelphia Eagles knew what plays were coming, NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport reported Sunday on NFL Network's "NFL GameDay Morning." Rapoport said there was an "air of positivity" after the meeting.
NFL Media columnist Michael Silver reported during the segment, however, that RGIII has expressed to teammates his dissatisfaction with Shanahan.
"This could be coming to a head," Silver said. "Inside the building, we talked to people familiar with the situation, they perceive RGIII as kind of insecure, specifically about Kirk Cousins, which may be one reason he (RGIII) was so eager to rush back. At Baylor (University), they didn't put RGIII's bad plays up on the board in the meeting rooms. Sources familiar with the situation say he has asked the Redskins to do the same. They have refused to up to this point."
Shanahan responded to the report quickly Sunday.
"That's completely false. Robert wouldn't do that," Shanahan told Mike Jones of The Washington Post. Shanahan noted he doesn't pass along personal conversations, but he wanted to set the record straight after a perceived "character assassination" on Griffin.
The initial controversy this week spawned from a perception that some Redskins players wanted Griffin to take more blame for the team's struggles. A request to not be called out for poor plays would bolster the belief that there is an undercurrent of discontent within the locker room, even if every side denies it exists.
Griffin sometimes has been defensive when speaking with the media this season, and Silver's report supports the idea that it could be more than just perception.
This situation isn't going away soon, as much as Shanahan and Griffin might want it to skedaddle. At the end of the day, owner Dan Snyder will have to decide if the relationship between his franchise quarterback and his coach is salvageable, or if a divorce from Shanahan is best for all parties.
We previewed every Week 12 game in the latest "Around The League Podcast."
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I posted this on it's own thread, perhaps I should have posted it here. Would you give the indy first rounder for RG?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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