DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Which QB Going Forward? (Next Year)

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If not, go into next year with Hoyer/Campbell, or somebody elses backup qb who has some potential.

Its time we do this right.

Schaub? Schaub?

In the words of Ozzie Guillen
....please

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Huh?

Please go back and actually read the post.

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...look at the 2 SB winners in the afn north. all from cold weather college teams.

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All 2 of 'em.

Sorry man, couldn't resist.

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...look at the 2 SB winners in the afn north. all from cold weather college teams.

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All 2 of 'em.

Sorry man, couldn't resist.

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Not to be a Lombardi apologist, I am as nervous about him as anybody but:

Mingo - Who would you have taken that has done significantly better?

McFadden - a 3rd round pick who missed much (most?) of training camp. Let's see what McFadden does these next few games with the increased playing time he is going to get.

Gordon - What were his exact words? Did he say he wouldn't have taken Gordon or that he wouldn't have taken Gordon with a 2nd round pick? Imagine if we would have bid a 4th or 5th round pick instead of a 2nd round pick. Now imagine that we still got Gordon. 1st we get to draft in round 2 of last year's draft. 2nd we are less worried about another drug offense/suspension because we only used a 5th round pick to get him instead of wasting a 2nd. It is possible that Lombardi had a much better feel than Heckert about where Gordon would be taken by the other teams. Perhaps not but fact is we don't and will never know what other teams bid for Gordon. So was the brunt of his criticism over this pick based on talent or value? If talent then he was wrong. If value then perhaps he was right.

We'll see after this next draft how good Lombardi is. Let's be patient and not get ahead of ourselves with worry.

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Not to be a Lombardi apologist, I am as nervous about him as anybody but:

Mingo - Who would you have taken that has done significantly better?

McFadden - a 3rd round pick who missed much (most?) of training camp. Let's see what McFadden does these next few games with the increased playing time he is going to get.

Gordon - What were his exact words? Did he say he wouldn't have taken Gordon or that he wouldn't have taken Gordon with a 2nd round pick? Imagine if we would have bid a 4th or 5th round pick instead of a 2nd round pick. Now imagine that we still got Gordon. 1st we get to draft in round 2 of last year's draft. 2nd we are less worried about another drug offense/suspension because we only used a 5th round pick to get him instead of wasting a 2nd. It is possible that Lombardi had a much better feel than Heckert about where Gordon would be taken by the other teams. Perhaps not but fact is we don't and will never know what other teams bid for Gordon. So was the brunt of his criticism over this pick based on talent or value? If talent then he was wrong. If value then perhaps he was right.

We'll see after this next draft how good Lombardi is. Let's be patient and not get ahead of ourselves with worry.

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I would've taken a guard. Or a cb. There's no 100 successful rate at drafting. But those 2 positions at the time were more dire IMO.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/63916/browns-hiring-lombardi-makes-no-sense

That was Lombardi's comments on gordon. A wasted draft pick. As in if he was gm at the time, he would've never picked him up.

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Not to be a Lombardi apologist, I am as nervous about him as anybody but:

Mingo - Who would you have taken that has done significantly better?

McFadden - a 3rd round pick who missed much (most?) of training camp. Let's see what McFadden does these next few games with the increased playing time he is going to get.

Gordon - What were his exact words? Did he say he wouldn't have taken Gordon or that he wouldn't have taken Gordon with a 2nd round pick? Imagine if we would have bid a 4th or 5th round pick instead of a 2nd round pick. Now imagine that we still got Gordon. 1st we get to draft in round 2 of last year's draft. 2nd we are less worried about another drug offense/suspension because we only used a 5th round pick to get him instead of wasting a 2nd. It is possible that Lombardi had a much better feel than Heckert about where Gordon would be taken by the other teams. Perhaps not but fact is we don't and will never know what other teams bid for Gordon. So was the brunt of his criticism over this pick based on talent or value? If talent then he was wrong. If value then perhaps he was right.

We'll see after this next draft how good Lombardi is. Let's be patient and not get ahead of ourselves with worry.

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I would've taken a guard. Or a cb. There's no 100 successful rate at drafting. But those 2 positions at the time were more dire IMO.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/63916/browns-hiring-lombardi-makes-no-sense

That was Lombardi's comments on gordon. A wasted draft pick. As in if he was gm at the time, he would've never picked him up.

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Not to be a Lombardi apologist, I am as nervous about him as anybody but:

Mingo - Who would you have taken that has done significantly better?

McFadden - a 3rd round pick who missed much (most?) of training camp. Let's see what McFadden does these next few games with the increased playing time he is going to get.

Gordon - What were his exact words? Did he say he wouldn't have taken Gordon or that he wouldn't have taken Gordon with a 2nd round pick? Imagine if we would have bid a 4th or 5th round pick instead of a 2nd round pick. Now imagine that we still got Gordon. 1st we get to draft in round 2 of last year's draft. 2nd we are less worried about another drug offense/suspension because we only used a 5th round pick to get him instead of wasting a 2nd. It is possible that Lombardi had a much better feel than Heckert about where Gordon would be taken by the other teams. Perhaps not but fact is we don't and will never know what other teams bid for Gordon. So was the brunt of his criticism over this pick based on talent or value? If talent then he was wrong. If value then perhaps he was right.

We'll see after this next draft how good Lombardi is. Let's be patient and not get ahead of ourselves with worry.

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I would've taken a guard. Or a cb. There's no 100 successful rate at drafting. But those 2 positions at the time were more dire IMO.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/63916/browns-hiring-lombardi-makes-no-sense

That was Lombardi's comments on gordon. A wasted draft pick. As in if he was gm at the time, he would've never picked him up.

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you can debate the what ifs until the cows come home but it won't change two facts. 1. A second round pick was used and 2. The kid can flat out play!

But he does have this thing hanging over his head that will be there forever and that's on him. for now, I'm enjoying the kid and they way he produces. Lombardi's thinking aside.

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And many people agreed with him at the time.

The media acted like we were insane for taking Gordon where we did. I bet that was also the reaction in a number of front offices around the NFL.

If we expect perfection from the front office, especially when those in the front office were in a commentary capacity, then we're going to be changing front offices and staffs every year, because no one is ever 100% perfect.

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And many people agreed with him at the time.

The media acted like we were insane for taking Gordon where we did. I bet that was also the reaction in a number of front offices around the NFL.

If we expect perfection from the front office, especially when those in the front office were in a commentary capacity, then we're going to be changing front offices and staffs every year, because no one is ever 100% perfect.

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There is also the fact that the Browns offer of a 2nd rounder wasn't necessary. At the time, the next team to make an offer was Chicago, and they offered a 3rd rounder. If the Browns had offered a 3rd rounder, they still would have gotten Gordon.

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Not to be a Lombardi apologist, I am as nervous about him as anybody but:

Mingo - Who would you have taken that has done significantly better?

McFadden - a 3rd round pick who missed much (most?) of training camp. Let's see what McFadden does these next few games with the increased playing time he is going to get.

Gordon - What were his exact words? Did he say he wouldn't have taken Gordon or that he wouldn't have taken Gordon with a 2nd round pick? Imagine if we would have bid a 4th or 5th round pick instead of a 2nd round pick. Now imagine that we still got Gordon. 1st we get to draft in round 2 of last year's draft. 2nd we are less worried about another drug offense/suspension because we only used a 5th round pick to get him instead of wasting a 2nd. It is possible that Lombardi had a much better feel than Heckert about where Gordon would be taken by the other teams. Perhaps not but fact is we don't and will never know what other teams bid for Gordon. So was the brunt of his criticism over this pick based on talent or value? If talent then he was wrong. If value then perhaps he was right.

We'll see after this next draft how good Lombardi is. Let's be patient and not get ahead of ourselves with worry.

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I would've taken a guard. Or a cb. There's no 100 successful rate at drafting. But those 2 positions at the time were more dire IMO.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/63916/browns-hiring-lombardi-makes-no-sense

That was Lombardi's comments on gordon. A wasted draft pick. As in if he was gm at the time, he would've never picked him up.

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Not to be a Lombardi apologist, I am as nervous about him as anybody but:

Mingo - Who would you have taken that has done significantly better?

McFadden - a 3rd round pick who missed much (most?) of training camp. Let's see what McFadden does these next few games with the increased playing time he is going to get.

Gordon - What were his exact words? Did he say he wouldn't have taken Gordon or that he wouldn't have taken Gordon with a 2nd round pick? Imagine if we would have bid a 4th or 5th round pick instead of a 2nd round pick. Now imagine that we still got Gordon. 1st we get to draft in round 2 of last year's draft. 2nd we are less worried about another drug offense/suspension because we only used a 5th round pick to get him instead of wasting a 2nd. It is possible that Lombardi had a much better feel than Heckert about where Gordon would be taken by the other teams. Perhaps not but fact is we don't and will never know what other teams bid for Gordon. So was the brunt of his criticism over this pick based on talent or value? If talent then he was wrong. If value then perhaps he was right.

We'll see after this next draft how good Lombardi is. Let's be patient and not get ahead of ourselves with worry.

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I would've taken a guard. Or a cb. There's no 100 successful rate at drafting. But those 2 positions at the time were more dire IMO.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/63916/browns-hiring-lombardi-makes-no-sense

That was Lombardi's comments on gordon. A wasted draft pick. As in if he was gm at the time, he would've never picked him up.

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Not to be a Lombardi apologist, I am as nervous about him as anybody but:

Mingo - Who would you have taken that has done significantly better?

McFadden - a 3rd round pick who missed much (most?) of training camp. Let's see what McFadden does these next few games with the increased playing time he is going to get.

Gordon - What were his exact words? Did he say he wouldn't have taken Gordon or that he wouldn't have taken Gordon with a 2nd round pick? Imagine if we would have bid a 4th or 5th round pick instead of a 2nd round pick. Now imagine that we still got Gordon. 1st we get to draft in round 2 of last year's draft. 2nd we are less worried about another drug offense/suspension because we only used a 5th round pick to get him instead of wasting a 2nd. It is possible that Lombardi had a much better feel than Heckert about where Gordon would be taken by the other teams. Perhaps not but fact is we don't and will never know what other teams bid for Gordon. So was the brunt of his criticism over this pick based on talent or value? If talent then he was wrong. If value then perhaps he was right.

We'll see after this next draft how good Lombardi is. Let's be patient and not get ahead of ourselves with worry.

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I would've taken a guard. Or a cb. There's no 100 successful rate at drafting. But those 2 positions at the time were more dire IMO.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/63916/browns-hiring-lombardi-makes-no-sense

That was Lombardi's comments on gordon. A wasted draft pick. As in if he was gm at the time, he would've never picked him up.

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Have you seen the 1st round CB's and OG's performance? I'll admit I am biased to Mingo as I hitched my wagon to him first but you show me a CB and OG who has performed better than him as a rook. I have heard no good reviews on the likes of Cooper, Warmack, Milliner, Hayden or Rhodes. You could make an argument for Long but even he has had some major ups and downs. The only 1st rounders who have played better than Mingo IMO are Vaccaro, Richardson, Star and Reid.

Vaccaro is surprising to me but I called Mingo, Sheldon, Star and Reid. I get that he hasn't been perfect and that some people don't agree with drafting potential over day one starters(the Mangini effect) but to say he has performed poorly compared to anyone else who was on our radar for no6 is ludicrous.

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Not to be a Lombardi apologist, I am as nervous about him as anybody but:

Mingo - Who would you have taken that has done significantly better?

McFadden - a 3rd round pick who missed much (most?) of training camp. Let's see what McFadden does these next few games with the increased playing time he is going to get.

Gordon - What were his exact words? Did he say he wouldn't have taken Gordon or that he wouldn't have taken Gordon with a 2nd round pick? Imagine if we would have bid a 4th or 5th round pick instead of a 2nd round pick. Now imagine that we still got Gordon. 1st we get to draft in round 2 of last year's draft. 2nd we are less worried about another drug offense/suspension because we only used a 5th round pick to get him instead of wasting a 2nd. It is possible that Lombardi had a much better feel than Heckert about where Gordon would be taken by the other teams. Perhaps not but fact is we don't and will never know what other teams bid for Gordon. So was the brunt of his criticism over this pick based on talent or value? If talent then he was wrong. If value then perhaps he was right.

We'll see after this next draft how good Lombardi is. Let's be patient and not get ahead of ourselves with worry.

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I would've taken a guard. Or a cb. There's no 100 successful rate at drafting. But those 2 positions at the time were more dire IMO.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/63916/browns-hiring-lombardi-makes-no-sense

That was Lombardi's comments on gordon. A wasted draft pick. As in if he was gm at the time, he would've never picked him up.

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Which cornerback? Which guard? Look, I wanted Dee Miliner. However, the guy is really struggling. I was wrong. You don't offer specifics........you just say the Browns screwed up and give the impression that Lombardi is an idiot.

I read that article you posted. I noticed you forgot to mention Lombardi's comments on drafting Weeden and TRich. Wonder why that is?

Psssttttt.........H and H aren't coming back, no matter how much you complain.

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did i say lombardi is an idiot?

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get your head out of your ass and realize just because posters don't worship the ground with this new FO like you do that they were automatically H&H supporters.

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once again, i'm not saying any of those guys are playing better, but at the time of the draft, none of us would've known that. but don't act like mingo is playing any better. he's not.

its all opinion, but i seriously think we could've had better success with warmack than with the G's play now, and imo, that was more a dire need than a project OLB, because thats EXACTLY what mingo is.

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once again, i'm not saying any of those guys are playing better, but at the time of the draft, none of us would've known that. but don't act like mingo is playing any better. he's not.

its all opinion, but i seriously think we could've had better success with warmack than with the G's play now, and imo, that was more a dire need than a project OLB, because thats EXACTLY what mingo is.

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So none of them are playing better than him, but he's not playing better than them? Worst contradiction ever. Most people say hindsight is 20/20. But it's as if your saying the fact that Mingo is playing better in our system than any of them in their own system means nothing because you think one of them would be better for us.

You'd trade someone who has succeeded relative to his peers and has far more upside for a player who has not succeeded because you feel we needed that position more. By your own words Mingo is the project player. A project player shouldn't contribute as much right away right? They are more boom or bust because they take time and work. Yet this project has graded out better than them all. Sure not the best in the class. But better than most and any youd rather have. Imagine when the project is finished compared to the day one starters he's already outperforming.

I'm sorry I don't mean to attack. I very rarely do. But your argument is ridiculous and it's as if you just can't admit it.

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why is it ridiculous? i'm simply saying i think having any one of the other players would've been better for our team than mingo.

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I read that article you posted. I noticed you forgot to mention Lombardi's comments on drafting Weeden and TRich. Wonder why that is?

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1. I believe the safest pick in the draft -- beyond Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III -- is Alabama running back Trent Richardson. He's a blue-chip player and has all the skills to quickly establish himself as a top-five player at his position. Forget the nonsense about not taking backs early -- everyone would love the chance to get this guy.

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Looks like Lombo is 1 out of 3 when it comes to evaluating TRich, Weeden and Gordon

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I still have next to no faith in this guy's "scouting eye". I think he's just a pretender

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Would you ask him for his opinions of QBs when drafting one?

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No, because he has a horrible track record. Hoyer's "find" was his best, but it didn't come out of College and outside of that he has far from proven to be an efficient starter in this league, so I would keep the champagne bottles back a little more, if I were you

Here's the list of who Lombo liked and pimped out of College in recent drafts:

Bradford
Henne
Gabbert
Pat White
J.Russell

He also didn't like the Kaepernick selection and would have passed on Cam Newton

Read this "gem" from just two years ago and how often he was flat out wrong on stuff:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d8...g-worried-teams

Smiling in St. Louis
If I am the Rams, I am happy right now -- happy that no team in the NFC West added a quarterback that could match the skill set of Sam Bradford. The Rams have the best quarterback in the division and will be the team to beat.

Picking Justin Houston was also strange. He had some off-the-field concerns, and his effort on the field is questionable.

Falcons' flop is Browns' boon
I did not like the trade by the Falcons to acquire Julio Jones. They paid a king's ransom to select Jones, and I am not confident he is the next Calvin Johnson. Jones has some issues, and I am not sure that Greg Little -- the receiver the Browns took at 59 with one of the picks acquired from the Falcons -- might have similar athletic skills.

Love the Jah Reid choice. (still a backup in his 3rd season)

Giants get thumbs up
Even though I am not sold that Prince Amukamara is a shutdown corner, I liked the Giants' draft overall. Marvin Austin in the second round was a great value, and James Brewer has the skills to develop on the offensive line. (Both Austin and Brewer are still backups)

The Texans went directly at their needs with each pick. I like J.J. Watt but thought Cam Jordan was a better inside rusher.

Here's my fav though:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d8...g-worried-teams

5. The Texans will need to explain to me where J.J. Watt will play on passing downs and what impact he can make at that position. I liked Watt as a two-down player, not a rusher. And I preferred Cam Jordan as a more all-around player. However, Watt brings talent, and second-rounder Brooks Reed must provide pass rush.



This dude knows talent, when he sees it, lol He said JJ freaking Watt, the league's best defender, was a two down player and he would have probably passed on him mid 1st, but now back as a GM he drafted a one down OLB in Mingo in the top of the 1st. Man's so smart...

If any of us would flip a coin on draft day, we'd probably still be better than Lombardi's "evaluations". I have ZERO faith in this clown and there's a multiple other articles like the one's I posted that show what an imposter he is.

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why is it ridiculous? i'm simply saying i think having any one of the other players would've been better for our team than mingo.

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But your argument is that even though Mingo has outperformed them that you still think one of them would have been a better choice. That is your argument, no?

That's not sound logic my friend. I could understand if you sited reasons for certain players fitting better or being used improperly. But to say that even with Mingo outperforming them you'd rather have a lesser player because the hole was larger at that time. That is called reaching for need. Franchise destruction 101.

For example this offseason. I think we can agree our needs in general order(not based on ease of acquiring but rather weakness of our own positions) are QB, OL, RB, ILB, WR yeah? Your sitting there at the Colts pick with a WR graded above an ILB. The WR is raw but is a freak athlete and a great kid but might not start right away and has higher potential. The ILB could come in and start right away say the pundits.

The WR plays as expected. Flashes raw talent and dominant skills but disappears at times. The ILB doesn't live up to the hype yet. He starts but he just didn't come out and play as well as expected and although he has upside it's even more probable it's not nearly as high as the WR. The WR actually has a slightly better rookie year and still has tremendous upside.

You'd still rather have the ILB because it was a bigger need and because that's who you thought would be better around draft time? See my point? I just don't see the traction of yours. I actually applaud their decision. I'll be the 1st to admit I wanted an OL. I want one every draft. But why take an OG at 6 or even top 15 when the best OL, not OG, in the draft, Larry Warford,(called it) went in the 3rd round.

It's about targeting the right guys. Not a position because of need. If you can scout properly the "projects" don't always end up beneath the day one starters.

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NRTU.. Kinda

All this bashing of Lombardi for what he said in his old job has to be taken with a grain of salt. Remember, he was hired as a Media guy. He was hired to sell air time and to do that, you sometimes have to say things that you may or may not actually believe in order to stir the pot and get people talking.

If you wanna look at what Lombardi (the GM) did , you gotta go back to his time in that role.

If you do that, you won't come away very encouraged. But you can also come away knowing that he was relatively new in that role. You have to believe (read that as hope) that he's learned something.

Just saying,

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