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So how much better is Watkins than:
Benjamin from FSU
Robinson Penn State
Adams Fresno St
Matthews Vandy
Because at least one of them will be available with the Colts pick.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Quote:
So how much better is Watkins than:
Benjamin from FSU A pretty good amount
Robinson Penn State A ton
Adams Fresno St Two tons
Matthews Vandy Three tons
Because at least one of them will be available with the Colts pick.
Robinson and Matthews are going to be 2nd and 3rd round picks at best.
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And Im Not A Bit Sold 100% On Hoyer Being More Than Lightening In A Bottle.
Huh? So, you're saying that you think that Hoyer is the sure thing?
Not Sure How You Interpreted That That way.Way. 
Im Not Convinced Hoyer Is All That! A Few Good Games Was All We Saw From Him. Maybr Things Clicked For Him. Maybe They Didnt.
Stop Being A Turd Bro! I Likes Ya Too Much!
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Quote:
So how much better is Watkins than:
Benjamin from FSU
Robinson Penn State
Adams Fresno St
Matthews Vandy
Because at least one of them will be available with the Colts pick.
Don't forget Beckham from LSU.
I don't understand all the love for Watkins. Most of his production comes from screens and gimmick handoffs. I don't see an elite skillset. I think he's a slot WR. He's quick, a good blocker, decent hands and has good vision. He's not a burner, doesn't attack the ball, doesn't win jump balls, small size and less agile than his weight would suggest. I don't see him succeeding at the level a top10 pick would suggest.
I see a slower Torrey Smith at best with, as with any WR, an out of the NFL floor. Can anyone explain why this guy is a blue chip prospect? Because I'm not seeing it. I think there's a lot of borderline 1st-2nd round WRs this year and someone had to be elevated to the top.
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Quote:
Quote:
So how much better is Watkins than:
Benjamin from FSU A pretty good amount
Robinson Penn State A ton
Adams Fresno St Two tons
Matthews Vandy Three tons
Because at least one of them will be available with the Colts pick.
Robinson and Matthews are going to be 2nd and 3rd round picks at best.
One of the CBS mocks had us taking Robinson with our 2nd 1st round pick. Of course, one of their mocks has us passing on Manziel for RT Jake Matthews at 5, while the other had us taking Bortles when Bridgewater, Clowney and Manziel go off the board 1-3.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draft
Rang's mock has us with no 1st round QB, which I find almost impossible to believe, (with Robinson joining Matthews as the other 1st rounder) and the other has us taking Cedric Ogbuehi TE Texas A&M, to go with Bortles.
I do think that we will take Manziel, or Bortles, if either is available when we pick. I think that we would be highly likely to match Manziel with a top WR to pair with Gordon, to give us a dynamic passing attach from the word go, if we go Manziel with the top pick.
As always, JMHO
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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NFL Draft Scout has Jordan Matthews and AR as 2nd round prospects. Personally I would take L'Damian Washington out of Mizzou in the 5th. Guy is like 6'4 and runs a 4.3, sure he can't run routes, but no one coming out of college can. Guy is one of those physical freaks who just need to be taught how to play (Similar to Mingo).
Also Sammy Watkins looks great. I think he's deceptively quick like Josh is, he's shifty and is great in the open field. He would be a great fit in any offense he plays in. I don't see why anyone would dislike him.
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Quote:
Quote:
So how much better is Watkins than:
Benjamin from FSU
Robinson Penn State
Adams Fresno St
Matthews Vandy
Because at least one of them will be available with the Colts pick.
Don't forget Beckham from LSU.
I don't understand all the love for Watkins. Most of his production comes from screens and gimmick handoffs. I don't see an elite skillset. I think he's a slot WR. He's quick, a good blocker, decent hands and has good vision. He's not a burner, doesn't attack the ball, doesn't win jump balls, small size and less agile than his weight would suggest. I don't see him succeeding at the level a top10 pick would suggest.
I see a slower Torrey Smith at best with, as with any WR, an out of the NFL floor. Can anyone explain why this guy is a blue chip prospect? Because I'm not seeing it. I think there's a lot of borderline 1st-2nd round WRs this year and someone had to be elevated to the top.
doesn't win jump balls?
did you watch him at all this year? not only did he do that, he is fast as hell, he is constantly in the opponents back field from route running and pure speed.
the guy is definitely one of, if not the best WR coming out this year.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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I don't know if he's done it all season, but the one TD pass Watkins plucked out of the air the other night was a thing of beauty.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So how much better is Watkins than:
Benjamin from FSU
Robinson Penn State
Adams Fresno St
Matthews Vandy
Because at least one of them will be available with the Colts pick.
Don't forget Beckham from LSU.
I don't understand all the love for Watkins. Most of his production comes from screens and gimmick handoffs. I don't see an elite skillset. I think he's a slot WR. He's quick, a good blocker, decent hands and has good vision. He's not a burner, doesn't attack the ball, doesn't win jump balls, small size and less agile than his weight would suggest. I don't see him succeeding at the level a top10 pick would suggest.
I see a slower Torrey Smith at best with, as with any WR, an out of the NFL floor. Can anyone explain why this guy is a blue chip prospect? Because I'm not seeing it. I think there's a lot of borderline 1st-2nd round WRs this year and someone had to be elevated to the top.
doesn't win jump balls?
did you watch him at all this year? not only did he do that, he is fast as hell, he is constantly in the opponents back field from route running and pure speed.
the guy is definitely one of, if not the best WR coming out this year.
Your definitely entitled to your opinion. I can't say your wrong as it is what the herd believes but I just don't see a complete receiver. I hope he proves me wrong, especially if he's a Brown, but I don't see it. Nope haven't seen a single play. Just saying the opposite of what I read to stir the pot. 
I've seen every tape of him. Though I'll admit I missed his grand finale so to speak. While I think he's fast, he's not 4.3 fast as some would suggest. I don't think he's a burner at the NFL level. A majority of his tape are gimmick plays. A whole mess of screens, options and pitches. I think he'll lack separation at the next level unless it's on a quick short route where he can utilize his quickness(best attribute) and he doesn't have the strength to win contested battles he'll be forced to endure.
After looking at the scouting sites many of them say he lacks elite speed, lacks strength and consistent catching ability, as well as character and injury concerns. Those aren't top 10 WR issues to me.
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Diam: Clowney is huge. He is extremely fast. While Mingo is a freak, Clowney is one of the finest physical specimens I have ever seen. With that said, he is lazy. He is undisciplined. I live in Columbia, which houses his collegiate team. The guy is a goof. Million dollar talent. Two cent head.
Back to the QB..............since this is a QB thread, right anarchy?
I think it is almost imperative that we move up to number two.
I'm telling you that there are too many teams sitting right behind us that need QBs. We can't assume they won't move up. We need to either land Teddy or Johnny Football.
Teddy is my number one guy. I've been in love w/him all year. However, there is a part of me that almost hopes that we move up to number two and the Teddy is the first pick. Teddy is safer. He is more cerebral and that is HUGE to me, but Johnny Football has "it."
There are guys on here acting like "it" isn't important. Ha! They never played the game. They never coached the game. "It" does exist and when you get a chance to get "it," you get "it."
This kid could very well turn this downtrodden franchise around. He is the energizer that we need.
Move up to number two and get either Teddy or Johnny Football. There are no other viable options.
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No I think he thinks he ISN'T (he's not sold on him being anything more than lightning in a bottle.)
In my understanding of the terminology 'lightning in a bottle' was a sustained success when it wasn't expected (i.e., Tom Brady, etc.) and keeping it. Capturing it. What you seem to be suggesting is that Hoyer might be a 'flash in the pan', which is something else completely.
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I'll add that I agree. Until I see Hoyer do it for more than 2 games and against somebody better than the Vikings I don't believe it either. Then again I don't see any QB in this class (Bridgewater included) as sure fire, can't miss, guaranteed all-pros either. That's why I make sure I get one of the top 3 and let em compete with Hoyer and see what happens.
I don't think you need to necessarily get one of the top 3 prospects at the QB position.
I'll leave out last year's draft because it was really bad for QBs although, the best one of them (Glennon) could have been taken in the third round, although we was the third QB taken.
In 2012, outside of Andrew Luck, name the QBs better than Russell Wilson and Nick Foles that were taken ahead of them? There were 4 QBs taken in the first round (Luck, RG3, Tannehill, Weeden) and one taken in the second round (Osweiler). Finally, there is Wilson and Foles. Which QB do you think are better than them?
In 2011, Cam Newton was taken #1 overall. Following him was Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert & Christian Ponder. Andy Dalton was the fifth QB taken and Colin Kaepernick was the sixth one. Are Locker, Gabbert and Ponder better than Dalton & Kaepernick?
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Quote:
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And Im Not A Bit Sold 100% On Hoyer Being More Than Lightening In A Bottle.
Huh? So, you're saying that you think that Hoyer is the sure thing?
Not Sure How You Interpreted That That way.Way.
Im Not Convinced Hoyer Is All That! A Few Good Games Was All We Saw From Him. Maybr Things Clicked For Him. Maybe They Didnt.
Stop Being A Turd Bro! I Likes Ya Too Much!
I guess it's just how the terminology, in this case, 'lightning in a bottle' is meant. How I understand it, it is something that is good, captured and kept close. Not something that is hot for a second and then dissipates as quickly as it came. That's usually something we called a 'flash in the pan'.
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J/C
I know the Texans have said they're open to trading the #1. That being said, what if they agree to a contract with Bridgewater before the draft? Suddenly, the Rams pick is more valuable. It really is a chess match. Do you stand pat if you're the Browns? Do you try to trade with the Rams now just in case? So many things to consider between now and May!
Last edited by CBFAN19; 01/05/14 10:23 PM.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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Again, trading up to the second spot would be very intelligent.
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The Rams would have to consent with this trade and there's no way they'll do it this far away from the draft.
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I would have never guessed in a million years that the Rams would have to consent to this trade. Thanks for educating me.  You try too, too hard to appear smart. Just talk w/out the arrogance. Btw.........I never said we needed to make the move now. I just think we need to make it before someone else does.
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I agree, CHSDawg. I didn't necessarily mean now, but more of it becomes a chess match as to when exactly to make the move potentially before someone else does.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Quote:
I would have never guessed in a million years that the Rams would have to consent to this trade. Thanks for educating me.
You try too, too hard to appear smart. Just talk w/out the arrogance.
Btw.........I never said we needed to make the move now. I just think we need to make it before someone else does.
Ummmmmmmmm.........how's about you talk, voice your opinion, without the arrogance? S'pose you can do that? Because......well, your arrogance is all over.
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j/c
I don't see the qb's going 1-2-3. Well, that is assuming we don't trade up. I think Clowney is a huge prize, and I could see the falcons jumping up to #2 to snag him. That leaves one of Teddy, Bortles or Manziel at 4. I do not trade up. I just don't see Teddy being worth the price.
My two cents on Sammy Watkins-- he reminds me of Larry Fitz. A nice consolation prize if things go haywire at #4 (with the qb's going 1-2-3)- but even then I would probably take the trade with Atlanta. I think they will be all over him...... OR maybe just take Clowney, he's a freak.
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Quote:
I would have never guessed in a million years that the Rams would have to consent to this trade. Thanks for educating me.
You try too, too hard to appear smart. Just talk w/out the arrogance.
Btw.........I never said we needed to make the move now. I just think we need to make it before someone else does.
I'm sorry you feel threatened by my posting, I didn't mean it.
But to make it more clear, St. Louis is going to entertain a bidding war on draft day using all of their time to get the best deal from someone. There's no way we're going to be making a deal before someone else does, nor should we as there's no guarantee that we'll like a QB enough to move up to #2.
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Threatened? What in the world would make you think that?
Look, this is one of the only good threads on this board. Just post w/out the crap. You are the same guy who belittled me for posting coverage assignments. LOL
I never once said we should do this immediately. I know that St. Louis controls the scenario. Are you really questioning that people don't realize that? Really?
The idea is that we need to move up to number two before someone else does.
I am saying that there are teams behind us who desperately need a qb and they are probably willing to move up. It is my opinion that we would be making a mistake to sit at number four and expect either Teddy or Manziel to fall to us.
That is the point.
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I am a big time advocate of trading up. We have been QB starved for over a decade and 2 very good prospects are available. If we stay at 4 there is a very good chance we don't even get Bortles. The Ramsare going to trade down, and as others have mentioned there are a ton of teams needing a QB behind us. I would get this done rather quickly, and get whomever the Texans don't draft.....and I am really starting to believe JM goes #1. As you mentioned he has it. I would be very happy with either Teddy or JM. It would be nice to actually have some hope again that this team can eventually play in January and not be worrying about who the coach is or the draft.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Quote:
and I am really starting to believe JM goes #1.
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Agreed. We have to be proactive.
Now, w/that said, our FO will probably sit on their hands and HOPE that either Teddy or Manziel falls to them.
That would be a mistake. We ABSOLUTELY NEED a franchise qb. The teams behind us will want to move up. We gotta make a move.
I suggest moving to number two rather than one. Houston will want a king's ransom. We'll get a better value and still end up w/a great qb if we move up to number 2.
Clowney or Matthews will not make us winners. We need a dynamic QB.
Here's the thing, Willie. I like Teddy better as a QB, but I kinda hope we end up w/Manziel. This is the kid that can inject this franchise w/energy. We, of all teams, need to be energized.
I am really hoping we move up to number two and draft Johnny Football this year. If we could somehow get Franklin as our HC and Manziel..............man, that would be a dream come true.
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Your use of emoticons, punctuation and language implied you were starting to become a bit heated. I'm sorry if I offended you, I wasn't trying to. When you say, "we need to move to #2 before someone else does" it implies that more than one team will move up to #2, which isn't the case. I'm sorry for misunderstanding you, but I do agree with your logic if our QB is there we need to take him for ourselves. As they say, "Fortune favors the bold."
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I have really come around on Johnny. I liked what I saw on New Years Eve, and so I went back and watched a couple of more games that were on demand (I live in SEC land). He was everything I saw that Tuesday night. I am not as high on his accuracy as you and Toad are, but he is accurate enough.....he just goes through hot and cold spells IMO. He has enough arm strength, and is probably the most dynamic leader to come out in a long, long time. Oh and a lot of his "act" will work in the league IMO because of his incredible balance.
With all of that said, I take Teddy 10 out of 10 times because the bust risk is so much less. I'm with you on JM's ceiling, but his floor still scares the crap out of me.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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I am not heated. I just want this thread to stay on track because almost every other thread on this board sucks. No big deal and I apologize if I misinterpreted you.
I did imply that there will be other teams that want to move up. You are right that no had tried to move up yet. There is no proof. I am just using common sense. Most would agree that Houston needs a qb. They are at number one.
Jax needs a qb. No denying that and they draft ahead of us.
Oakland, Minnesota, and Tennessee are not far behind us and really need a qb. Why wouldn't they want to move ahead of us?
I still think we should move up to number two if we possibly can. The Rams might refuse us, but I would hate if another team moves ahead of us and we miss out on either Teddy or Manziel. Heck, we could even miss out on Bortles.
I just think it is imperative that we get a QB in this year's draft. I love Hoyer and I am rooting for him, but his sample size is too small. This is the year we need to get our QB.
Not saying you have to agree, but I don't think my logic is flawed.
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Excellent post overall. Quote:
With all of that said, I take Teddy 10 out of 10 times because the bust risk is so much less. I'm with you on JM's ceiling, but his floor still scares the crap out of me.
Dead on. 
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jc
I think Luck has spoiled us in terms of 1st pick talent. Teddy really looks like one of the best QB's since Bradford or Rodgers.
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jc
I think Luck has spoiled us in terms of 1st pick talent. Teddy really looks like one of the best QB's since Bradford or Rodgers.
yea, i think too many people are looking for the next luck, instead of the next Rodgers, Rivers, ETC.
and you're right. Teddy definitely fits that type of caliber, which is still plenty of talent to reach Super Bowl level.
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I don't understand all the love for Watkins. Most of his production comes from screens and gimmick handoffs. I don't see an elite skillset. I think he's a slot WR. He's quick, a good blocker, decent hands and has good vision. He's not a burner, doesn't attack the ball, doesn't win jump balls, small size and less agile than his weight would suggest. I don't see him succeeding at the level a top10 pick would suggest.
I see a slower Torrey Smith at best with, as with any WR, an out of the NFL floor. Can anyone explain why this guy is a blue chip prospect? Because I'm not seeing it. I think there's a lot of borderline 1st-2nd round WRs this year and someone had to be elevated to the top.
Setting aside his drug arrest and injury history, when I talk about what I see in his skill-set, I see an ELECTRIC player. I see many of the same things in Watkins that I saw in Michael Crabtree...but Watkins is a touch faster. He isn't at all small, being 6'1 205. I see a guy who always attacks the ball with his hands. There's no body-catching with Watkins. His change of direction is every bit as good as Crabtree. He appears to be a willing blocker. He's very quick in and out of his cuts.
Simply put, it's my humble opinion that from a skill-set standpoint Watkins is the best receiver in this draft. That isn't formed just from highlight reels, but from all the focus films I've watched repeatedly on Boyd. I'd heard of Watkins' talent but he started jumping out at me on the tapes.
Now I don't know about his drug history or his character so I'm not gonna predict where he'll go, but Watkins is an elite talent, and if his head checks out I will be very forthcoming in admitting my perfect scenario for this draft would be a QB with our first pick and Watkins with our second selection. Unfortunately he'll be gone before our Indy pick comes around, but I think so highly of Watkins as a player that I'd be all for giving up another pick to move up and get him.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Bridgewater looks like he will get broken in half the first time he gets hit by an unblocked blitzer. Dude is rail thin. He is listed at 196 pounds but I would put him closer to 180. I am guessing he will weigh in at around 200 pounds at the combine.
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I am curious .... let's say that we stay at 3, and the top 3 picks are Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortles are gone.
I have seen some people talking up David Fales lately. From what I have seen, he can make every throw in a QB's repertoire. I don't know about his arm strength, because his videos rarely see him really cut the ball loose, but some of his videos show solid anticipation, accuracy, and touch on his short to mid level throws. .I read the scouting reports, and they say a lot of the same things I have seen in his highlights. I have seen him make excellent throws on outs, fades, and back shoulder throws. He seems to know where to put the ball on crosses and slants. He can drop a pass in between defenders effectively.
Now, I have not watched a ton of college football this year, and I understand that highlight videos are just that. However, I see a lot for a coach to work with.
What are his weaknesses? Is his arm weak, or is it an average NFL arm that other special qualities can overcome? How do you guys see him? From what I have seen, he looks like a guy with real potential to be a special player.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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I've seen pics of Bridgewater in high school when he was listed at 180 and he was smaller than he is now. Having said that, I fully agree that he's slightly-built. It's as though when God was passing out shoulders he forgot about Bridgewater. When you combine that with his long arms it gives him a very strange build. I'd bet he does actually weigh close to 196, but his size is a concern. If his measurables turned him out at closer to 6'2 it wouldn't shock me. He certainly isn't going to gain any substantial upper-body weight, though gaining lower-body weight wouldn't affect him negatively.
Bridgewater isn't the physical blue-print of the 1st pick of a draft, but if you're an NFL team without a QB and Bridgewater is sitting there, you don't have to think twice about whether or not you'd take him. You see, you smile, and select, and you smile again.
Right now Manziel and Bortles are the rising players...just as so many QB's were risers at this time last year only to fall off...but when it's all said and done, I would be completely shocked if Bridgewater isn't the unanimous top guy in this class. To me, he's clearly the best bet, as he doesn't have nearly as many questions as all the other QB's.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
McShay, who I view as a clown, has said that Bortle Kombat will overtake Bridgewater
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
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McShay, who I view as a clown, has said that Bortle Kombat will overtake Bridgewater
I've always wondered how much of the back-and-forth between he and Kiper is real and how much is scripted crap by the Mothership. I wouldn't put it past ESPN to go there with Bortles just to stir the pot.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
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~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
Dunno, I've seen a lot of talk about how O'Brien has fallen in love with Bortles and has developed such a crush that it'd make him pick Bortles over Teddy.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Hey, more power to him. I'm not as high on Bortles' accuracy as most and think 'Bridge is a better QB. Of course, being a Browns fan, I'm basically assuming we're gonna pass on taking one of these guys and instead take Carr with our second 1st rounder  
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805 |
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Excellent post overall.
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With all of that said, I take Teddy 10 out of 10 times because the bust risk is so much less. I'm with you on JM's ceiling, but his floor still scares the crap out of me.
Dead on.
UCF QB to declare for draft ... Central Florida junior QB Blake Bortles will reportedly formally announce that he is entering the 2014 draft tomorrow. Bortles is being mentioned as a possible contender to be the first player selected this coming May.
http://www.gbnreport.com/
This is the guy I've been waiting for. Now it's Manziels turn.
Vers. Thoughts on this if it happens?
Scenario #1
McDaniel's is hired and we give #36 to NE for Mallet, keeping our 2 first rounders.
At #4 we go Watkins WR.
Scenario #2
This is a good one. Reportedly O'Brien is in love with Bortles. He goes #1 and Teddy sits at 2. Does Houston keep Manziel in Texas?
We're agreeing on this completely. We need to identify 2 of these guys we'd want and we need to move to #2 to make positively sure we secure one of them and end this QB crap we continually go through.
If we don't make the move, someone else will.
I really don't care if it takes both our first rounders this year, our 2015 first rounder, and another pick this year. If we can save our Indy pick this year and give 36 instead, even better. But we need to do this. These guys are worth the shot. This isn't like going after a Ponder.
Worst Scenario
These guys hitch there wagon to Hoyer. Mistake of major proportions.
Every single one of you guys that are putting limitations on how much is too much need to understand that everyone has a limit to what they will trade to move up. Houston and the Rams know this. It will not take 4 first round picks to get this done.
If we identify who we want and we do it, we have 40 Million in Cap space and will still have a plethora of draft picks left to do serious upgrading.
This team, as bleek as many may see it right now, is a few players away from contending for the Division every year. And QB is the #1 priority.
QB-WR-RB-OL-ILB-CB-S Every one of those spots can easily be addressed even if we move to 1 or 2 to get the QB.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Johnny Football is an exciting player.
But so was Vince Young.
I feel like he's going to come into the league, lose some games with his arm, and win some with his legs. And unless you can reign him in, he'll eventually just burn out...
But hey, at least it'd be exciting for a bit right?
Give a bunch of people some ducktape so they can break out old #2 jerseys...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Which QB Going Forward? (Next
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