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Scenario #1
McDaniel's is hired and we give #36 to NE for Mallet, keeping our 2 first rounders.
I would hate to give that up for Mallet. I asked on another thread what exactly has Mallet done in the NFL to improve his value from the time he was drafted. He was picked in the 3rd and has really not done much in the league. Definitely nothing to raise his stock. To me, the 3rd that was used to pick him is the absolute ceiling I have for him, and I would hesitate to go that high.
I hear you and tend to agree.
NE had the chance to auction him off last year. They chose to keep him probably hoping he played a game and rose his stock. There wasn't a downside to keeping him. Now however he hasn't gained any extra value and unless Bill plans to make a QB switch next year he will go FA or be traded this offseason. Being Bill B he'll probably be traded but there won't be enough market.
The only 2 possibilities are us and Houston both likely to be run be Belicheck disciples who worked with Mallet. People forget Mallet was drafted when Bill o Brian was the OC not Josh McDaniels. That could be a very good reason the 1st pick is available. Mallet may go to Houston.
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Last 5 years Browns weren't terrible enough to get Ryan, Stafford, Bradford, Newton, Luck, and RG iii.
Rank Bridgewater, Manziel, Bortles, and Carr to the QB's Browns passed on these last five years Flacco, Sanchez, Locker, Ponder, Tannehill, and Gabbert. Where would Teddy, Johnny, Blake, and Derek rank compared to Ryan, Stafford, Bradford, Newton, Luck, and RG iii?
Cool idea 
Luck
RGIII {pre-injury}
Manziel
Stafford
Bridgewater
Newton
Carr {lacks intangibles for me, has everything else}
Bradford
Ryan
Flacco
Bortles
Tannehill
Ponder
Locker
Sanchez
Gabbert
I must do this! As stated all as prospects not today.
Luck
Bridgewater
RGIII {pre-injury}
Newton
Manziel
Stafford
Bortles
Ryan
Tannehill
Bradford
Flacco
Ponder
Locker
Sanchez
Carr
Gabbert
That was fun.
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No way Johnny or bortles would be high firsts 5 years ago
You mean the Matt Leinart, Vince Young, Cutler draft? no, that's 8 years ago and cheating.
2009 was the Stafford (consensus #1 guy ala Bridgewater), Sanchez ("winner" with "it" ala Manziel), Freeman (full toolset but more unknown ala Bortles) 
note: not saying that's who these guys will become, but it's funny they largely matchup in terms of the media buzzwords for them.
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j/c
For those who say non-top five....
Being a QB driven league and you are a team in need, how do you say "I rate Clowney and Mathews more. I'll wait. I'll trade up and get one where I value."
Remember Gabert was drafted top 5 by Jacksonville who is as desperate to be relevant as the Browns.
NFL states parity, but how can they when it is nearly impossible to position oneself to get a QB. Media pimps a QB stating "your teams needs." Teams, whose fan base is not emotionally attached, can resort to tanking in order to get a QB. Meanwhile, Owners having a super strong fan base resort to anything keeping their fans.
Look at Pittsburgh and Baltimore. They both drafted, at the time, second tier QB's. Pittsburgh had a little more success. Look at Cincy when Palmer wanted out. Now Cincy is stuck similar to Arizona.
If you need a QB and can get better than a maybe, you must be all in.
For teams such as New England, who can coach up a less than maybe have it made trading for early picks.
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Look I do not take away anything that Manziel has done in college. He is very accurate and has mad escapability. But his game, the way he played in
college does not make him a prospect for every team in the NFL. He could prosper in the right situation if he commits himself to his craft.
Myself, ( and if I stand alone so be it) do not see him as a good fit in Cleveland. There is no way I would take him with the fourth pick.
I'm not taking you to task on what you're saying here.
I'm just not sure how you arrive at him "not being a good fit in Cleveland". I'm not sure who the next HC will be, what system he will run or how well he will be at developing a QB.
So my question is, with all of those unknown factors, why would you feel he could succeed in the right situation yet say this isn't that situation?
I'm not trying to take you to task but am intrigued to hear in more detail your reasoning behind that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I think that, given the choice between having Trent, Weeden, Mingo and Schwartz, or RG3, I'd rather have RG3.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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j/c:
A lot of posts since I last posted. Some well thought-out posts and some mind-blowing posts. LOL
A few comments on things that I can remember from reading the 60 or so posts.
--Memphis made a good point how we have only drafted Timid high. He brought up us passing on Rodgers for Leon. We also passed on Big Ben for K2. I was extremely high on Ben and was praying he would fall to us at six. He does, and we pass.
The Rodgers/Leon fiasco was embarrassing. I remember nas---big Michigan fan saying we should draft Edwards. I didn't even respond for a long time because I thought it was so ludicrous. I finally did after I saw there were several pages. Swore up and down the guy was a head case. We could have had a great qb and we got that clown.
--Manziel is nothing like Vince Young. Young is mentally weak and that is why Fisher gave up on him. He put up some good numbers, but folded when there was pressure. Manziel thrives on pressure. Young was aloof. Manziel's teammates adore him. Young was about VY. Manziel is about winning. Accuracy isn't even close.
--I don't think there is much of a chance that Mallet comes here. No way.
--I think it's stupid to pass on a qb this year. We need one desperately. We've missed on one too many times.
--Someone mentioned Fales. I like the kid in the 3rd or 4th round. The knock on him is that his arm is below average, he doesn't have a ton of experience, and his level of competition is poor. We see what happened to Carr when he played a decent team. However, he would be worth a 3rd or 4th rounder to some team. I actually like the kid. Just not in the first round.
--The point about the Bengals was excellent. I was telling my son that if I were the Bengals, I would give up my entire draft and more to move up to number one and take Teddy. That team is loaded w/talent, but they aren't going to win w/that guy.
--I hope Bortles flies up the charts. I was the first guy on here to bring him up. I had him as a 3rd rounder, although I did say he would probably fly up to the first round. I like him, but I hope the report isn't true that he is our number one guy. I think he sails too many passes and his decision making was questionable against Baylor.
--People were talking about Teddy's frame and someone even said it looks like he would break in half if ever drilled. Well, that person obviously watch the bowl games the last two year. Before this year's bowl game, they were showing highlights of last year's match-up w/Florida. Teddy got decleated and the guy knocked his helmet off w/a helmet to the chin. Teddy got back up and proceeded to lay 33 pts. on the nations 3rd ranked team and best defense. He is tough as nails.
--Teddy is still my number one guy because I think he is the smartest and smart qbs are winning. Guys like Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Brees, and Luck are all extremely smart. That is the ONE thing they all have in common.
--Manziel is close and I won't be disappointed if we get him instead of Teddy. The guy just has something about him that is special.
--Still hoping we move up to number two. I am afraid of other teams who need a qb leapfrogging us. If we move to number two, we are assured of either Teddy or Johnny Football. I would be somewhat disappointed if we move up that high and take Bortles. If we stay at four and take Bortles.........well, I would be okay w/it, but I'm really all in on either Teddy or Manziel.
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Quote:
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Last 5 years Browns weren't terrible enough to get Ryan, Stafford, Bradford, Newton, Luck, and RG iii.
Rank Bridgewater, Manziel, Bortles, and Carr to the QB's Browns passed on these last five years Flacco, Sanchez, Locker, Ponder, Tannehill, and Gabbert. Where would Teddy, Johnny, Blake, and Derek rank compared to Ryan, Stafford, Bradford, Newton, Luck, and RG iii?
Cool idea
Luck
RGIII {pre-injury}
Manziel
Stafford
Bridgewater
Newton
Carr {lacks intangibles for me, has everything else}
Bradford
Ryan
Flacco
Bortles
Tannehill
Ponder
Locker
Sanchez
Gabbert
I must do this! As stated all as prospects not today.
Luck
Bridgewater
RGIII {pre-injury}
Newton
Manziel
Stafford
Bortles
Ryan
Tannehill
Bradford
Flacco
Ponder
Locker
Sanchez
Carr
Gabbert
That was fun.
Fun exercise, here's how I would rank them based on my opinions of them when they came out (not today)
Tier 1 : Sure-fire all pro's
1. Andrew Luck - Stanford (Still the best QB prospect I've ever seen out of college)
Tier 2 : Super Bowl caliber QBs, possible all-pro's
2. Matthew Stafford - Georgia (I think he has it in him)
3. Jake Locker - Washington (missed on this one)
Tier 3 : Above average NFL starters, possible SB QBs
4. Robert Griffin III - Baylor (I was always skeptical but the talent is there)
5. Matt Ryan - Boston College (yep)
6. Sam Bradford - Oklahoma (I think he's good enough but may never experience it due to injuries)
Tier 4 : Average NFL starters, possible above average
7. Teddy Bridgewater - Louisville (I'm not as high on him as most, but he's still the best in this class)
8. Blake Bortles - Central Florida (Roethlisberger 2.0. May never be elite but he'll be good enough to win with in the NFL)
9. Ryan Tannehill - Texas A&M (Gimmicky offense worried me)
10. Joe Flacco - Delaware (Lack of competition worried me)
11. Mark Sanchez - USC (missed here, he should have been lower)
Tier 5 - Below avg NFL QBs to out of NFL
12. Cam Newton - Auburn (total whif here. I wanted nothing to do with him)
13. Blaine Gabbert - Missouri (yep)
14. Christian Ponder - Florida St (yep)
15. Derek Carr - Fresno St (unless he blows me away in his pro day/combine I don't want to touch him)
Tier 6 - Would Not Draft List
16. Johnny Manziel - Texas A&M (Again talent-wise projection-wise he'd probably be up in Tier 3 but his bust/floor due to his head is just so SO low. I couldn't draft him, just couldn't do it.
Last edited by GraffZ06; 01/06/14 08:47 PM.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Bizarre. It almost looks like you made that post so you can complain later. Nice. 
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Bizarre.
It almost looks like you made that post so you can complain later.
Nice.
I agree.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I don't think I'd declare him undraftable, but I see what you're saying.
The guy has a really big uphill battle to make it in the NFL, and will need to be incredibly smart to do so.
And he doesn't strike me as that bright of a guy.
I'm praying we don't take him (and I'll be he is, too).
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Teddy is at least as good Ryan and Stafford were as prospects. Some people are acting like because there isn't a Luck type of prospect that we shouldn't go QB. The funny thing is Ryan wasn't even a number 1 overall pick, and there was real debate as to whether MS was a number 1 worthy guy as well.
I understand the pause about JFM, but Bridgewater has at least a Ryan type of career, and has the ability to be so much more.....and if JFM reaches his ceiling then God only knows how good he will be.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Bizarre.
It almost looks like you made that post so you can complain later.
Nice.
Just in regards to Manziel?? I mean I keep saying talent-wise I love him. Even in my list above I said he'd be a Tier 3 guy. I think we could potentially win a SB with him at QB so if he's our guy I'll support him like heck.
I won't say I won't be skeptical of the pick though because I, personally, couldn't draft the kid.
Or were you referring to something else in my rankings?
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I like Bridgewater but there are some things he needs to do to improve his game a bit plus add some weight.
I'm not into Manziel as I feel he's too slight and will take a pounding .
I like some of the other QB's to go in the second -third round..all depends who the new HC is and what he wants to do.
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Teddy is at least as good Ryan and Stafford were as prospects. Some people are acting like because there isn't a Luck type of prospect that we shouldn't go QB. The funny thing is Ryan wasn't even a number 1 overall pick, and there was real debate as to whether MS was a number 1 worthy guy as well.
I understand the pause about JFM, but Bridgewater has at least a Ryan type of career, and has the ability to be so much more.....and if JFM reaches his ceiling then God only knows how good he will be.
Maybe, maybe not, but to argue who is/was a better prospect would simply be splitting hairs. No doubt that Teddy is a solid prospect who should have a solid pro game. There is really no way to guage a guy who has everything you can measure, but doesn't pan out. I guess that is why you see a lot of bust QBs.
No doubt he goes number one. The question is if he is so much better than a few of the others to spend a extra 1st and probably a 3rd to move up to get him? I know that I don't know.
I am less worried about QBs going 1-2-3 then I was a few days ago. As I see it, Clowney is going at 2 or at 4....4 if the top 3 qbs get drafted and we trade down a few slots.
I guess where I am going with this is either Bortels or Manziel is going to be there at #4. Is that good enough?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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As I see it, Clowney is going at 2 or at 4....4 if the top 3 qbs get drafted and we trade down a few slots.
And herein lies the rub. Is Bridgewater better than Manziel and Bortles? Probably. That much better that we should trade 1 or more 1st round picks to get Teddy instead of Johnny or Blake? Maybe, maybe not. BUT what if the draft does play out that Qb's go 123? What do we do about the QB position?
Grab a QB later in the draft? None of the later Qb's thrill me. Trade for Mallet? Ugh. Go into full jerk it for Jameis mode? As usual we would win one too many games. Pray that Hoyer is healthy and is everything that Lombardi thinks he could be? What are the odds of that?
We will never be a consistently good team until we get an above average QB. That needs to be priority #1. IF Qb's go 123 then what plan going forward would you suggest? If you or anarchy or anyone else can come up with a good plan then I would love to hear it. And I don't find get a Qb in the later rounds to be an acceptable plan. Because that is basically playing the field. For that to be an acceptable alternative I would want to hear which Qb AND in which round. You could say Aaron Murray in the middle rounds. But if you don't specify a round then you don't know if that plan would work. He could become a fantastic Qb. But if you say Murray in the 4th and he gets drafted in the 3rd then that plan wouldn't have worked.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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I guess where I am going with this is either Bortels or Manziel is going to be there at #4. Is that good enough?
I think so but boy, I would hate to have to make that decision (if both were available). They are such different players.
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I like some of the other QB's to go in the second -third round..all depends who the new HC is and what he wants to do.
Attack - maybe you have mentioned it before ... but which ones? I am curious to hear your thoughts, and those of others, of who they like in the 2nd or 3rd.
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"So my question is, with all of those unknown factors, why would you feel he could succeed in the right situation yet say this isn't that situation?"
======================================================
That is a fair question.
First off Manziel has not demonstrated maturity off the field. I questioned if he ready to lead a group of men? If mentally he can commit himself to what it takes to succeed in the NFL? If he is willing to lead off the field as well as on the field. That to me is a concern but that would be a concern no matter where he plays.
At this point with the head coaches still to be interviewed: we do not know the offense to be run. However, I do not see anyone that is mentioned running a WCO. Josh McDaniels in my opinion will be the next coach. I would be shocked if he is not the hire based upon his relationship with Lombardi. As well it has been stated that Banner is also a fan of McDaniels.
It is not 100% but close.
The strengths of Manziel are his escapability and accuracy on short to intermediary passes. When he throws long he has to wind up more and his ball floats. I believe it would be to his advantage to play in a spread offense or a type of WCO where the ball comes out quickly and the ball is spread around more horizontally. Reid's offense in KC would be perfect, Lots of screens off a mobile quarterback with built in options. Chip Kelly's offense is another based upon fast rhythm throws with qb options.
The weather conditions in the AFC North. All outside where as the season progresses the conditions play more of a role. Manziel does not have a strong arm. He put up plenty of throws for grabs that he will not be able to get away with in the pros. As the weather gets worse his field will become more limited.
Manziel is slight of build. In college he ran the ball plenty. That will not not translate well in the NFL. The players are bigger, faster, stronger. No matter where he plays.
"If" McDaniels becomes coach. NE plays a controlled offense with a pocket passer. From what I see in NE if McDaniels brings that game here; I do not see that playing to what Manziel does best.
Cleveland is dying for a savior at quarterback. Manziel would bring (from the fan perspective) unreal expectations. Not sure how that will play out if there are struggles right from the start. Let's face it most rookie quarterbacks struggle in the beginning. I question his maturity and am unsure if he ready to handle adversity. Although he will face that no matter where he plays.
In the end analysis Manziel to me presents to many unknowns and risks. A warm weather or dome team playing on a fast track with an offense and coaching staff wanting to take advantage of his strengths would provide Manziel the best chance for success. Does that exit in Cleveland?
I don't know if I answered your question. At the end of the day I do not know, I just feel he would be a better fit someplace other than Cleveland at this point in time.
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I don't know if I answered your question. At the end of the day I do not know, I just feel he would be a better fit someplace other than Cleveland at this point in time.
Yes you gave out a well reasoned answer. Thanks.
I believe this FO went hard after Chip Kelly. Now whether they go in a different direction in the type of O they are looking for I don't know.
I have seen however there seems to be somewhat of a shift where HC's would lean more toward designing their O around a QB's strengths.
That would make it something new compared to the NE O.
And like you, I do believe Josh McDaniels is the front runner in this race.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
I questioned if he ready to lead a group of men? If mentally he can commit himself to what it takes to succeed in the NFL? If he is willing to lead off the field as well as on the field. That to me is a concern but that would be a concern no matter where he plays.
The thing that worries me most about Manziel is what's going to happen to him when he gets all that money that comes with being a high round draftee. It comes back to his apparent immaturity and maybe a bit of a lack of emotional support from those around him to keep him grounded. I'm worried he's surrounded more by people who are in it for themselves, rather than for him and his success in the game.
There are no sacred cows.
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yes, getting the contract shouldn't be an issue with Johnny as he's had it his whole life (now, that might be part of his issue  )
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Heck, Give Tebow A Tryout. See If All The Talk That He's Throwing Good Is Fact.
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No thanks, rather see Tanney in there than Tebow'mania... we got enough issues anyway.
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Please comment:
Bortles - Has big Ben's body. What else? Does he have the skill set of an NFL Quarterback? A potential franchise NFL Quarterback? Can he throw a football like Ben? I saw 1 NFL throw from him the other night - It was a slant. The least difficult throw to make. Big Ben Body, big deal. Can this guy lift a Lombardi on the stage? Does he have it? I have concerns.
Manziel - Obviously the concern is maturity and that he will breakdown mentally. Also, the fact that he is going to take some ginormous hits. As Toad accurately predicted the fate of RG III, Manziel's durability is a legitimate concern. He will get hit, and hit hard. I will agree that he has the instincts to slip and avoid big hits, but he will get nailed -- hard and often. He just holds on to the ball, and in the league, that means getting drilled.
Bridgewater - An analyst last night was talking about how "tiny" Bridgewater is and how he simply doesn't have the body to survive in the NFL. I agree, he definately should take a year, sit on the bench, and put on 25-30 pounds of muscle. He's not as big as many people think. He's not.
Which QB going forward?
I guess I'm at the point where I'd like to see us trade out for picks and just stick with Hoyer and Campbell for next year. Continue building the team. I just don't see "our guy" out there. Winston and Mariotta will be up next year. Is Bortles better than Petty? If so, not much. I hate to say it, but I don't think our guy is out there and I believe the best decision is to be patient and build.
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I like Bortles, not in love with him. Like his frame, but wonder about his accuracy. I do like that he doesn't quit and can put together late drives. He's probably my top choice at QB.
Teddy B seems to be everyone's top choice but doesn't impress (IMHO) like a true first pick overall should. I wonder about his "want to", and his size isn't prototypical... I question whether he would get fired up, or get beat down after taking 3 quarters of pounding in the AFC North.
Manziel is a curiosity for me at this point. He will take a pounding, but he never quits and has really, really good accuracy on the run. He has escapability, but I wonder how well that translates with faster corners, linebackers and linemen at the next level. Enough has been mentioned about his maturity issues, but I don't see that as a factor in the sense that I really think he likes to play and will "show up" to work in the NFL.
Frankly, if Bortles isn't there at 4 (I don't want to trade up) I take Clowney and never look back, then look to find someone to develop later in the draft.
Carr, David Fales, Jimmy Garoppolo and Tajh Boyd are all very intriguing to me from a production and athleticism point of view. They all have marks against them, and none are ideal size, but they also have intangibles that (I think) could make them very good if not great at the next level. If we can't draft Bortles at 4, I would take one of these guys, (who ever grades out best in the eyes of the scouts,) and let them sit behind Hoyer while they worked on their skill set, learned the system, got NFL experience and bulked up their frames.
JMHO
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I agree with you on Bortles from what I've seen so far. I still have at least one game of his to watch in the DVR (vs. South Florida) so I'm still open-minded about him, but I feel like he's where Cam Newton was coming out without the impressive arm strength and charisma. A lot of work to do and I'm not sure if he's got the talent to do it.
I don't think I agree on the Manziel mental breakdown thing. I just don't see the evidence for that. The guy likes money. He feels good when he wins, and he's flashy. So what makes him different in that respect to Colin Kaepernick? To Phillip Rivers? The reason Griffin is where he is today is because of that snuff-film of a playoff game that Shanahan allowed to happen against the Seahawks. He should have been sat when everyone in the world could see him limping, and his damage could have been minimized. I will grant you that whatever team Manziel plays for (my guess is Houston) that he can't keep throwing shoulders into defenders. That's crazy stuff.
Bridgewater, I'm not as concerned about his frame as I am about his accuracy to moving targets. He's not going to have as much space to complete passes as he's enjoyed at Louisville, let alone the number of routes to stationary receivers. I don't know how much he'll be able to improve his accuracy, but hopefully he can use his smarts to avoid situations where it's close and throw to open receivers. Only thing is, that doesn't sound like a top-3 pick to me.
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Joined: Apr 2009
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2009
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Quote:
Frankly, if Bortles isn't there at 4 (I don't want to trade up) I take Clowney and never look back, then look to find someone to develop later in the draft.
JMHO
I was just reading through some old posts. There was a mention of us being stuck with Clowney at #4 and then selling him off. I find this intriguing. What do you think?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,276
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
Bridgewater - An analyst last night was talking about how "tiny" Bridgewater is and how he simply doesn't have the body to survive in the NFL. I agree, he definately should take a year, sit on the bench, and put on 25-30 pounds of muscle. He's not as big as many people think. He's not.
I hear this a lot about rookies leaving college. It came up a lot with Mingo.
Genetic muscular potential
Unless these guys have really not been weight training ever, it is physiologically impossible for them to gain 25-30 lbs of muscle in a single year. I would bet for most of them it will be impossible for them to gain that much over their entire careers. They should have been lifting since high school. Unless you are openly advocating for them to use steroids you are hoping for something that will never happen.
Last edited by Kingcob; 01/08/14 01:41 PM.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
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it is physiologically impossible for them to gain 25-30 lbs of muscle in a single year
and yet, it happens in the NFL and college. by now, I think we all know we are looking the other way on how this is really happening.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,229 |
Quote:
Quote:
it is physiologically impossible for them to gain 25-30 lbs of muscle in a single year
and yet, it happens in the NFL and college. by now, I think we all know we are looking the other way on how this is really happening.
I think they are in such a controlled environment that it's possible to gain 10-15lbs of muscle. They are probably working out twice a day 5x a week all season and the trainers are some of the best in the world. Also throw in the fact that their diets are controlled.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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You're right. I do understand that.
The "analyst" last night was railing that Bridgewater is only 188 lbs. He said it twice and he called him "tiny" twice. He stated that NFL defenses will break him.
If he is around 190 then... he does need to get to 215-220. If he's 6 3' and 190 thats boney.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
Quote:
Quote:
Frankly, if Bortles isn't there at 4 (I don't want to trade up) I take Clowney and never look back, then look to find someone to develop later in the draft.
JMHO
I was just reading through some old posts. There was a mention of us being stuck with Clowney at #4 and then selling him off. I find this intriguing. What do you think?
It largely depends on the system we're running and the offers on the table. You can bet if he's there at 4 we'll get trade offers. Me, I put him in at pass rusher and call it a day, locking up that spot with a real difference maker for a change. But Like i said, it would depend on the offers.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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j/c Draft the franchise QB! The next time I read/hear that I'm going to vomit. I think the only TRUE franchise QBs today are: Rogers Brees P Manning Brady Roethlispuker Newton (maybe) Of those guys, only Manning, Luck and MAYBE Newton were considered franchise QB's at the time they were picked. To exclaim that we must draft our franchise QB at all costs is silliness. It simply doesn't work that way. The following guys are better than what we've had in forever...make a ton of money like the "franchise" guys listed above...but are NOT elite enough to meet my definition of true franchise guys: Flacco Stafford Ryan Rivers E Manning Cutler Wilson Kaepernick (Romo and RG III don't even make the second list.) Of those guys...how many were thought of as "Franchise" guys when drafted? Maybe Stafford, Rivers, and E Manning? They are very good...just nowhere near elite. Certainly RG III was touted as a "franchise QB" but he didn't even make my second list? The smart teams let the draft come to them and don't panic to get the "franchise QB" who seems to be available in the draft every year.  Take the BPA at a position of need...if you must draft a QB, take the best one that falls to you unless a sure-fire Elway,P Manning, Luck quality-guy can be had at any/all costs or you can move around in the draft without bending over. The "do whatever you must do to get your franchise guy" mantra is a joke...plain and simple. It just doesn't work that way.
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Joined: Apr 2009
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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What if the deal is for swapping firsts and a first next year?
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
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j/c:
It's amazing how differently people evaluate QBs. So many were in love w/Weeden. You say he has a big arm. He has great size. He was very good in college. His teams beat Luck's and RGIII's teams. You liked his accuracy because his completion percentage was high.
I never could stand the guy. I said he played in a Spread offense and never had to go through progressions. That he wasn't the hardest worker. That he wasn't a dynamic leader. I never saw him read coverages. I questioned his accuracy because of all the WR screens and lack of good throws to other parts of the field.
Now, you guys are talking about a guy's build and wanting to pass on a QB again. Man!
The one thing that almost all of the naysayers are forgetting is intelligence. It is the one common denominator between the great QBs.
Luck has a thick build.
Brady and Manning are really tall.
Rodgers is pretty thick, but just a tad short.
Brees is really short.
Wilson is short and has a very slight build.
Big Ben is built like an OT.
What is the one thing that all of those guys have in common? They are all extremely football intelligent. They make very good pre-snap reads and they can read coverages after the snap.
Teddy and Johnny Football have the same gift.
No more Weeden's. We need an intelligent QB here.
Btw--------Clowney is a head case. I watch him all the time because I live in Columbia, SC. He is lazy. He is undisciplined. He is a great physical speciman who makes highlight plays but kills you on the majority of snaps because of his poor condition, his lack of discipline, and his effort.
We need a QB. And there are two excellent ones available. Bortles isn't bad, but his decision making in that bowl game bothered me. He wasn't reading the safeties at all. That is a no-no.
Quit focusing on the height and weight of the QBs and start recognizing that it is about intelligence and accuracy.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Quote:
Luck has a thick build.
Brady and Manning are really tall.
Rodgers is pretty thick, but just a tad short.
Brees is really short.
Wilson is short and has a very slight build.
Big Ben is built like an OT.
What is the one thing that all of those guys have in common? They are all extremely football intelligent. They make very good pre-snap reads and they can read coverages after the snap.
...
Quit focusing on the height and weight of the QBs and start recognizing that it is about intelligence and accuracy.
And the TRUTH! Shall set you free!
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 380
1st String
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1st String
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 380 |
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The "do whatever you must do to get your franchise guy" mantra is a joke...plain and simple. It just doesn't work that way.
I can't disagree more. Maybe you have been watching a different team. So we should go bpa instead of qb. Sick of this attitude. I used to be that way. Way back. We need a qb. No ifs ands or butts about it. I am not ready for ANY MORE years of horrible qb play. EVERYONE knows we need a qb and have forever. Even Bengal fans say we need one more than anything else. Some times bpa is not always the best. This is one of them.
So some want to butt our eggs in one basket w hoyer after 2 games and a mid round qb to sit. I'm not willing to chance a Holcomb again. Sick of next years. Get a qb now!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,288
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Get a qb now!
Ok...who do you want? If he's not likely to be available at #4 overall, what are YOU willing to give up to go and get him?
There is not ONE bona fide "franchise QB" in this draft...not ONE.
Sit at #4 overall...if there is a guy you want there...take him. But DO NOT trade even a jelly doughnut to move ONE SLOT to get a guy who is no better a prospect than the very next guy in line.
Your line of thinking has failed this franchise through two owners and numerous front offices...just because we want and need a franchise QB does not mean that one is available this year - or any given year.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Which QB Going Forward? (Next
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