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J/C
I know the Texans have said they're open to trading the #1. That being said, what if they agree to a contract with Bridgewater before the draft? Suddenly, the Rams pick is more valuable. It really is a chess match. Do you stand pat if you're the Browns? Do you try to trade with the Rams now just in case? So many things to consider between now and May!
I stand pat at this point. In the Browns current position, I would NEVER consider trading up and surrendering picks. Never. Period. I would heavily consider trading DOWN and acquiring more selections though, but there wouldn't be any deals made until draft day.
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1st String
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I know what I am about to say will be considered blasphemy but here goes any way.
All this talk about the biggest need for the Browns as being a QB is a bit too much to take. The Browns offense was better this year than it was in 2012. In 2012 Brandon Weeden won 5 games. In 2013 the Browns as a team won 4. Weeden is not the answer but it begs us to consider that QB is not the problem. 2013 the Browns had breakout seasons offensively with Gordon and Cameron yet we lost one more game than we did in 2012. Consider if Hoyer is not the answer and the Browns do not take one of the "coveted" top 3 QB's in the draft, do you honestly think the Browns will lose more games than they did in 2013 with Weeden at QB? I think the Browns have a much larger need than QB and it is glaring at us all. We need a defense that can stop someone, anyone, say... Jacksonville or the Jets in the 4th quarter of a game.
That being said, regardless of who is the QB in 2014, do you think they will be able to succeed with the offensive line we have now? No QB we have next season is likely to start all 16 games so I would not want to invest the draft pick at #4 on a player who will likely not be on the field for all 16 games. I have never been a Weeden hater, ( I do not think he is the answer ) but he is not going be the reason the Browns lose 10+ games in 2014 and a rookie QB is not going to be the reason the Browns win enough games to make the playoffs. Anything short of the playoffs is short sighted and I do not agree with it.
Voleur
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I know what I am about to say will be considered blasphemy but here goes any way.
All this talk about the biggest need for the Browns as being a QB is a bit too much to take. The Browns offense was better this year than it was in 2012. In 2012 Brandon Weeden won 5 games. In 2013 the Browns as a team won 4. Weeden is not the answer but it begs us to consider that QB is not the problem. 2013 the Browns had breakout seasons offensively with Gordon and Cameron yet we lost one more game than we did in 2012. Consider if Hoyer is not the answer and the Browns do not take one of the "coveted" top 3 QB's in the draft, do you honestly think the Browns will lose more games than they did in 2013 with Weeden at QB? I think the Browns have a much larger need than QB and it is glaring at us all. We need a defense that can stop someone, anyone, say... Jacksonville or the Jets in the 4th quarter of a game.
That being said, regardless of who is the QB in 2014, do you think they will be able to succeed with the offensive line we have now? No QB we have next season is likely to start all 16 games so I would not want to invest the draft pick at #4 on a player who will likely not be on the field for all 16 games. I have never been a Weeden hater, ( I do not think he is the answer ) but he is not going be the reason the Browns lose 10+ games in 2014 and a rookie QB is not going to be the reason the Browns win enough games to make the playoffs. Anything short of the playoffs is short sighted and I do not agree with it.
Voleur
i want you to watch the bengals game against the chargers in the playoffs.
Andy Dalton pulled a weeden in the playoffs. remember weeden had a game that he fumbled and threw 2 ints(jacksonville).
THAT'S why QB is absolutely the biggest need on this team. we can argue all we want about defense stopping people, but more often than not, our Defense is the reason we stayed in as many games as we did. we need a QB, that is the #1 need on this team.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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But to make it more clear, St. Louis is going to entertain a bidding war on draft day using all of their time to get the best deal from someone. There's no way we're going to be making a deal before someone else does, nor should we as there's no guarantee that we'll like a QB enough to move up to #2.
I know it is semantics, but the bidding war will not happen on draft day. STL is only on the clock for 15 minutes (or is it 10?) -- not enough time. The Rams will need to time to digest the offers and see what works best for them.
The bidding war will happen beforehand, though it may not be mentioned until STL is on the clock. Maybe the winning bid is conditional (I will give you this but only if Bridgewater falls to #2) and then they may need to go to the next bidder.
Think back to the trade between Atlanta and us in the 1st round a couple years back. That did not happen right when we went on the clock. That deal was already in place and was conditional on Julio Jones making it to our pick.
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j/c
Not to get too far off into the weeds but I found this interesting and somewhat frustrating.....
If I counted correctly, since 1999, we've had 11 top ten draft picks and have only once selected a QB w/ those picks. That, of course, was Counch in 1999.
Now, not every year was ripe for a QB where we were slotted and the few years after we picked Couch were not aimed at a QB of course, but for a team that consistently was picking early in rounds, you'd think someone in all the regimes we've had would have determined the common denominator in failing?
Obviously this is hind sight, but passing up Aaron Rogers for Braylon Edwards makes me sick. A new front office and coach, it would have made sense to start over w/ a QB.....sigh.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Scenario #1
McDaniel's is hired and we give #36 to NE for Mallet, keeping our 2 first rounders.
I would hate to give that up for Mallet. I asked on another thread what exactly has Mallet done in the NFL to improve his value from the time he was drafted. He was picked in the 3rd and has really not done much in the league. Definitely nothing to raise his stock. To me, the 3rd that was used to pick him is the absolute ceiling I have for him, and I would hesitate to go that high.
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Legend
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j/c
Not to get too far off into the weeds but I found this interesting and somewhat frustrating.....
If I counted correctly, since 1999, we've had 11 top ten draft picks and have only once selected a QB w/ those picks. That, of course, was Counch in 1999.
Now, not every year was ripe for a QB where we were slotted and the few years after we picked Couch were not aimed at a QB of course, but for a team that consistently was picking early in rounds, you'd think someone in all the regimes we've had would have determined the common denominator in failing?
Obviously this is hind sight, but passing up Aaron Rogers for Braylon Edwards makes me sick. A new front office and coach, it would have made sense to start over w/ a QB.....sigh.
lets hope they get right, memphis. they have to trade up to assure they get one of the top QB's this year.
i mean after Teddy, Manziel, and Bortles(which i don't like bortles)
the next QB is Boyd, in the 2nd round...after that? the talent drops....horribly.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Scenario #1
McDaniel's is hired and we give #36 to NE for Mallet, keeping our 2 first rounders.
I would hate to give that up for Mallet. I asked on another thread what exactly has Mallet done in the NFL to improve his value from the time he was drafted. He was picked in the 3rd and has really not done much in the league. Definitely nothing to raise his stock. To me, the 3rd that was used to pick him is the absolute ceiling I have for him, and I would hesitate to go that high.
I hear you and tend to agree.
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j/c
Not to get too far off into the weeds but I found this interesting and somewhat frustrating.....
If I counted correctly, since 1999, we've had 11 top ten draft picks and have only once selected a QB w/ those picks. That, of course, was Counch in 1999.
Now, not every year was ripe for a QB where we were slotted and the few years after we picked Couch were not aimed at a QB of course, but for a team that consistently was picking early in rounds, you'd think someone in all the regimes we've had would have determined the common denominator in failing?
Obviously this is hind sight, but passing up Aaron Rogers for Braylon Edwards makes me sick. A new front office and coach, it would have made sense to start over w/ a QB.....sigh.
lets hope they get right, memphis. they have to trade up to assure they get one of the top QB's this year.
i mean after Teddy, Manziel, and Bortles(which i don't like bortles)
the next QB is Boyd, in the 2nd round...after that? the talent drops....horribly.
You're right. And still guys like this Anarchy guy want to wait and take one of these chumps that has likely a 10% chance of ever being starter material. Unbelievable how blind some fans are.
It stares you right in the face around the entire league.
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Legend
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Quote:
j/c
Not to get too far off into the weeds but I found this interesting and somewhat frustrating.....
If I counted correctly, since 1999, we've had 11 top ten draft picks and have only once selected a QB w/ those picks. That, of course, was Counch in 1999.
Now, not every year was ripe for a QB where we were slotted and the few years after we picked Couch were not aimed at a QB of course, but for a team that consistently was picking early in rounds, you'd think someone in all the regimes we've had would have determined the common denominator in failing?
Obviously this is hind sight, but passing up Aaron Rogers for Braylon Edwards makes me sick. A new front office and coach, it would have made sense to start over w/ a QB.....sigh.
lets hope they get right, memphis. they have to trade up to assure they get one of the top QB's this year.
i mean after Teddy, Manziel, and Bortles(which i don't like bortles)
the next QB is Boyd, in the 2nd round...after that? the talent drops....horribly.
Yes let's hope the front office gets it right. And to be honest, this is one of the things I believe they understand...the URGENCY to get a QB. Heck, even if the QB ends up being a bust, I'll give them the credit of at least allocating their top available resources to get the most important position on the football field. It will most likely end up costing them their jobs, but they took the shot.
I really think if the FO likes one of these three QBs above all, they need to make a compelling offer to a team, most likely the Rams.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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jc
A lot of talk about moving up to number 2 because #1 would be too expensive. I still explore both. Who knows, Houston might take less than StL.
Regardless, any chance Jax would be willing to move down one spot? Maybe they don't like any of the qb's except Teddy. Maybe they like the way Henne played at the end of the year?
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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jc
A lot of talk about moving up to number 2 because #1 would be too expensive. I still explore both. Who knows, Houston might take less than StL.
Regardless, any chance Jax would be willing to move down one spot? Maybe they don't like any of the qb's except Teddy. Maybe they like the way Henne played at the end of the year?
if we move to #3, you're still forgetting that St. louis might want to trade with another team, and somebody might offer houston something. so the top 2 QB's could still get drafted before our turn is up.
thats why we shouldn't be taking any chances.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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j/c
it blows my mind how over rated these college QB's have become in one short week, since the bowl games.
Teddy is the best of the rest, but he's got some flaws. Still, he will be snapped up before we pick.
If Bortles or Manziel go earlier then #4, its a reach. If they go at #4, its a reach. If the browns give up the farm to move up to draft one of these guys... well, that's just plain asinine.
I still say the wild card here is Clowney. A team will move up to get him, my bets are on Atlanta. Clowney could still go #1. Jacksonville is a sure lock for a QB. I think its safe to say that two QB's and Clowney will be off the board when we go on the clock. Do not trade up.
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j/c
it blows my mind how over rated these college QB's have become in one short week, since the bowl games.
Teddy is the best of the rest, but he's got some flaws. Still, he will be snapped up before we pick.
If Bortles or Manziel go earlier then #4, its a reach. If they go at #4, its a reach. If the browns give up the farm to move up to draft one of these guys... well, that's just plain asinine.
I still say the wild card here is Clowney. A team will move up to get him, my bets are on Atlanta. Clowney could still go #1. Jacksonville is a sure lock for a QB. I think its safe to say that two QB's and Clowney will be off the board when we go on the clock. Do not trade up.
Exactly. Don't forget the top rated OT will be very enticing to some teams as well.
There is not one QB in this draft that I would take at #4 overall - let alone trade UP to get.
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But if we rate all 3 Qb's relatively equal (Teddy, Johnny, Bortles) then #3 guarantees that we get one of the 3.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Johnny Football is an exciting player.
But so was Vince Young.
I feel like he's going to come into the league, lose some games with his arm, and win some with his legs. And unless you can reign him in, he'll eventually just burn out...
But hey, at least it'd be exciting for a bit right?
Give a bunch of people some ducktape so they can break out old #2 jerseys...
That's such a lazy comparison. Vince Young was a significantly worse passer in the NCAA. I mean, it's not even close to comparable how much worse Young was.
you had a good run Hank.
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"Bridgewater isn't the physical blue-print of the 1st pick of a draft"
=======================================================
Kosar was a guy who probably did more things wrong than right as a college prospect.
Drew Brees didn't look like a first rounder neither did Russell Wilson. Not telling you anything you did not know.
I do not know what else Bridgewater needs to prove than what he did at college. To me he is more NFL ready than Griffin was coming out. He played in a pro set offense. He is a pure pocket pocket passer with mobility to move when needed. He has advanced quarterback skills. I want him to be a Cleveland Brown real bad.
Manziel ( in my humble opinion) could work out in limited environments. Not in Cleveland and not in the AFC North.
He was a great college quarterback. But what he did in college and the way he did it will not work in the NFL in most cases.
He could work out in a WCO with a warm weather team or a dome team. "If" he commits himself to what it takes in the NFL to succeed. The party animal aside he needs to lead before, during and after practice. Just like the big, mature boys Manning, Wilson, Brees, Brady. Guys who you will never read about in off field columns.
Manziel will have to be coached into the NFL. I am unsure if he will be able to that.
The mistake everyone is making about "Johnny Football" is that: what you have seen him do in college will not be what he will need to do in the NFL.
In the NFL you have to execute plays coming from the playbook. You are not going to make a living running around and ad libbing plays. The NFL defenses are too good. The players way faster.
Manziel in Cleveland I see as a huge mistake. The hype surrounding this kid and the expectations in Cleveland do not mix well. Not to mention the fact that the head coaching fiasco is a long way from a known working successful environment.
Bridgewater is clearly the best of his class. Bortles is a nice prospect. Not worthy of a franchise tag or the fourth pick.
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I just don't see how Boyd is ever going to be able to hit those NFL routes that require 60 mph velocity in a tight window. I've watched him three times this year and really like some things about him. But, I can't see it.
To me its pretty simple. I watch all these guys that all you guys are talking about.
A few days later I turn on an NFL playoff game.
The routes, the throws, the execution, in order to be successful in the pros a quarterback has to be special.
We have to ask, is the guy I'm pimping "special"? Does he have "it"?
Bridgewater and Manziel pass the eye test.
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Great post, some good points.
Kosar actually had about 4 tools. Incredible accuracy. Intelligence, Height, and toughness. And...
He proved as a freshman he was a winner.
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Thought this was interesting ..... As Cleveland Browns look for a quarterback, their cross-state rival shows the peril of building around an average one | cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss..._special-reportBEREA, Ohio – There are a couple ways to construct a playoff team – or so the good citizens of Cleveland have been told. You either find a franchise quarterback and build around him or develop an arsenal of weapons and hope they’re good enough to overcome a mediocre one. Sunday in Cincinnati was a reminder of why the Browns, who are starting to collect Pro Bowl pieces, need to get the right quarterback in this year’s or next year’s draft. Andy Dalton’s desultory performance in a 27-10 loss to the San Diego Chargers, demonstrates the perils of building a good team around an average quarterback. In recent years, we’ve seen the same thing happen with the New York Jets and Mark Sanchez and the Houston Texans and Matt Schaub. Dalton threw two interceptions and lost a fumble in the Bengals’ only defeat of the season at Paul Brown Stadium, where the home team had been averaging 34 points. The AFC North’s other red-haired QB didn’t shoulder all the blame, of course. Promising rookie halfback Gio Bernard lost a fumble as he was about to score. Pro Bowl receiver A.J. Green dropped a pass that would have put the Bengals inside the red zone when the outcome remained in doubt. But good, or at least competent, quarterbacking is required in the postseason and the Bengals have gotten neither from Dalton. The third-year veteran fell to 0-3 in playoff games with seven turnovers (six INTs) to one touchdown. He’s been good enough to get them there, and no further. Browns fans, enduring their fourth coaching search in six years, only wish to be burdened with such problems. They have become the patient in the optometrist’s chair asked to choose between a four-win or five-win lens. “Four or five? Four or five? Which one is clearer?” Nothing gets truly corrected here until the Browns find a quarterback. They've run through 20 starters since 1999. Yes, they need a legitimate halfback – we saw the importance of them again in the playoffs’ first round – and an upgrade at receiver opposite Josh Gordon. But the Browns will continue to struggle until they settle on a signal caller. A team with five All Pros – all of them in their prime or approaching it – should produce more than four wins. The Browns (4-12) crumbled down stretch in part because they lost belief in themselves and each other. It was difficult listening to Jason Campbell speak about his flagging confidence. The quarterback is supposed to be your leader, right? Maybe, a healthy Brian Hoyer is that guy. Maybe, the Browns unearth him in this draft with Teddy Bridgewater, Johnny Manziel or Blake Bortles. It would be nice to see him grow with Gordon and Jordan Cameron and a young defense. A good quarterback is like the area rug in the Big Lebowski – it ties the room together. Even with several significant injuries on defense the Bengals should have been good enough to beat the Chargers with just an average effort from their quarterback. But as Bengals’ fans can attest, you never know what you’re getting from the inconsistent Dalton. A year ago, Joe Flacco finally put it together at the right time and led Baltimore to a Super Bowl title. The Bengals were hoping Dalton was more Flacco than Schaub. The evidence is not encouraging and the Cincinnati brass is faced with some tough decisions in the offseason. The cynical Browns fan – and there should be no other kind given the franchise’s body of work -- understands the team remains a ways from respectability. But for those few fleeting weeks when Hoyer and Campbell were on their games, you could see the Browns’ potential. That’s what good quarterbacking provides a team. And, bad quarterbacking takes away.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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It is interesting.... and Andy Romo... I mean Tony Dalton... I mean.... hasn't looked good.
But let's not forget, in his first 3 playoff games, Peyton Manning was 0-3 with the following stat line..
50 for 105 (47.6%), 1 TD, 2 INTs, scored a total of 33 points.. and a QB Rating of 59.1....
The big difference for Dalton is the turnovers.. I think after 3 games he's 1 TD and 7 total turnovers...
yebat' Putin
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I wonder how many of you guys were thinking this very thing while the Bengals and Dalton were imploding?
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If Houston or St. Louis wants to make this a RGIII deal, screw 'em. Just sit at 4, take Sammy Watkins or Clowney....or trade out. I think Hoyer gives us enough reason to not feel like we MUST trade up or MUST take a QB.
That is what I'd seek to avoid (an RG III type give away) I don't think there a QB in this draft worthy of that outside of MAYBE Bridgewater and he's going to Houston..
So if you really like a Manziel (or someone else) I MEAN REALLY LIKE HIM, AS IN YOU GOTTA HAVE him, and you think he'll be gone by your #4 pick, then maybe you give up our 2 first rounders this year. Not sure I'd give anything else.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Dalton isn't average. I think he's an above average qb that has come up small in big moments. Really is like Romo. But average qb's don't throw 33tds, and have 31 more td's than int's in their career. I believe he was one of a few to start their career with 3 straight 3,000 yd years. I think Marvin Lewis is the bigger problem. He is 0-5 in playoff games, I would fire him before I got rid of Dalton. Odds are they're not going to find a qb better than Andy where they are drafting.
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~ Legend
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jc
I think the real problem with Dalton is that he's not actually good, but playing with AJ Green has everyone thinking he's good.
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I wonder how many of you guys were thinking this very thing while the Bengals and Dalton were imploding?
Actually my brother and I had this very conversation. He is 14 years younger than myself and is a Bengals fan. Had I of been born later, geographically I probably would have been one too.
In both of our opinions, Dalton is good enough to win just enough to stick with him, but unless he hits a hot streak like Flacco did last year, he's not a SB winning type QB.
And that's a lot of the question. People want a QB that can take us all the way to the SB. If you draft a guy who ends up "being a Dalton", you end up drafting in the 20's.
As I brought up to my brother, "Who are you going to find in the 20's in a draft, that you would find as a reasonable upgrade to Dalton?" Do you take such a gamble when you have other needs?
Having the high picks we've had for so long have given us a chance to draft an elite QB. I'm not saying standing pat would have always accomplished that. And yes, as Browns fans, going to the playoff for three straight years would feel like quite a blessing.
But as I've seen here on the local scene, Bengal fans want an elite QB they can win with. They want to take it to the next level. To me it simply points out how critical it is to get it right when the opportunity presents itself.
I'm not an expert at evaluating QB's. But I guess the question is, if you see an Andy Dalton type QB in the draft, how desperate is the fan base to "just win", but not win it all?
I do believe that desperation sometimes clouds our judgement on the value of QB's. Because we haven't won with any consistency in so long, would bringing a QB that turns out like Dalton has be a success?
Just remember that if you believe it would be, we would be drafting in the 20's every year which would extremely limit our ability at another top QB prospect for a very long time.
Sure we can point out Foles, Wilson, Kapernick and say we could still accomplish it, but the odds go down by a large percentage.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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In a very practical sense, there is no reason to move up. If, say for example, Bridgewater and Bortles are your 1 & 2 and they're not there at four, you have an outstanding chance of succeeding with your first pick by taking Watkins, Clowney or, I dare say, Manziel. If you take Watkins or Clowney, you have a very good chance of succeeding with your second 1st rounder by taking a receiver like Allen Robinson or Kellen Benjamin, or even Evans if he were to fall that far. There's even a (very slim) outside chance that Manziel drops to the late 1st.
So say you take Clowney and Benjamin or Robinson, you still have the opportunity to take a QB like Smith, Fales, Garrapolo or Taj Boyd, (whoever is your top pick among these four,) in the 2nd-3rd rounds and call it a very successful draft in terms of upgrading your team, increasing your offensive fire power, and getting an edge rusher who will be a difference maker. The QB wouldn't be forced to start if Hoyer is healthy, and we'd still have a prospect that could turn out to be an excellent franchise QB, (after they've been coached up and have some NFL experience).
I would be very happy with a scenario like that, and less happy if we have to give away the store to get Bridgewater or Bortles, (though I do like Bortles and would prefer him over Bridgewater).
JMHO
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Hall of Famer
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Johnny Football is an exciting player.
But so was Vince Young.
I can understand why someone who doesn't care for Manziel would make this comparison, but let's be very fair here when comparing apples-to-apples. I never though Vince Young was a 1st round QB because his Uncle Rico arm wasn't fit for the NFL, nevermind the maturity issues. While Manziel also has maturity issues, he has excellent accuracy. In that regard, those two players couldn't be any different.
I doubt there's ever been a bigger boom-or-bust 1st round QB in the history of the league...maybe Mike Vick because nobody knew if he could reign in his howitzer of an arm at the pro level, though Vick wasn't known to be a mental bad apple. There are things to absolutely love about Manziel, but whichever team drafts him needs to add into his contract multiple shrink-session a week. 
There are numerous questions about Johnny, but let's not compare him to players like Vince Young when it comes to throwing the ball. The accuracy is there.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,827
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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In the NFL you have to execute plays coming from the playbook. You are not going to make a living running around and ad libbing plays. The NFL defenses are too good. The players way faster.
Tell that to Roethlisberger. That is were he finds most of his success.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
In a very practical sense, there is no reason to move up. If, say for example, Bridgewater and Bortles are your 1 & 2 and they're not there at four, you have and outstanding chance of succeeding with your first pick by taking Watkins, Clowney or, I dare say, Manziel. If you take Watkins or Clowney, you have a very good chance of succeeding with your second 1st rounder by taking a receiver like Allen Robinson or Kellen Benjamin, or even Evans if he were to fall that far. There's even a (very slim) outside chance that Manziel drops to the late 1st.
So say you take Clowney and Benjamin or Robinson, you still have the opportunity to take a QB like Smith, Fales, Garrapolo or Taj Boyd, (whoever is your top pick among these four,) in the 2nd-3rd rounds and call it a very successful draft in terms of upgrading your team, increasing your offensive fire power, and getting an edge rusher who will be a difference maker. The QB wouldn't be forced to start if Hoyer is healthy, and we'd still have a prospect that could turn out to be an excellent franchise QB, (after they've been coached up and have some NFL experience).
I would be very happy with a scenario like that, and less happy if we have to give away the store to get Bridgewater or Bortles, (though I do like Bortles and would prefer him over Bridgewater).
JMHO
That's a whole lot of maybes, but I get your drift and agree with you. I'm not one to sacrifice the future like Washington did. So I'm generally for staying put and taking the BPA that fits your scheme. (as well as your need, no need to take a LT if you have a Joe Thomas on the team)
We really need a few things to make the leap..
QB of course,RB, another stand out receiver, another CB, maybe another safety, LB, at least one OG and maybe a center if they can't keep Mack.
So we aren't a QB away from being great. We are several players away.
The hang up I've got is, if Hoyer comes in and stays healthy and does what we saw him do, we could be out of contention for a top QB in the 2015 Draft. Then again, maybe if he's for real we don't need to spend a 1st on a QB unless someone we believe in falls to us (ala Rogers for GB did)
So many thoughts and possibilities.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Johnny Football is an exciting player.
But so was Vince Young.
I can understand why someone who doesn't care for Manziel would make this comparison, but let's be very fair here when comparing apples-to-apples. I never though Vince Young was a 1st round QB because his Uncle Rico arm wasn't fit for the NFL, nevermind the maturity issues. While Manziel also has maturity issues, he has excellent accuracy. In that regard, those two players couldn't be any different.
I doubt there's ever been a bigger boom-or-bust 1st round QB in the history of the league...maybe Mike Vick because nobody knew if he could reign in his howitzer of an arm at the pro level, though Vick wasn't known to be a mental bad apple. There are things to absolutely love about Manziel, but whichever team drafts him needs to add into his contract multiple shrink-session a week.
There are numerous questions about Johnny, but let's not compare him to players like Vince Young when it comes to throwing the ball. The accuracy is there.
I don't care if you like Johnny Manziel or not, the statement is true. He's exciting and so was Vince Young. Has nothing to do with liking or not liking him.
I'm not sure he's the answer (not sure he isn't either for that matter) but he sure is fun to watch., The kid is exciting..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,175
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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j/c
Last 5 years Browns weren't terrible enough to get Ryan, Stafford, Bradford, Newton, Luck, and RG iii.
Rank Bridgewater, Manziel, Bortles, and Carr to the QB's Browns passed on these last five years Flacco, Sanchez, Locker, Ponder, Tannehill, and Gabbert. Where would Teddy, Johnny, Blake, and Derek rank compared to Ryan, Stafford, Bradford, Newton, Luck, and RG iii?
Ownership stated losing is not an option, so how can the Browns not afford getting the first or second best QB in this draft?
Unless Banner/Lombardi know different and willing to risk their jobs, see Chud, it will be an interesting draft. Do you feel better with Banner/Lombardi making a deal compared to Holmgren and Heckert? Add getting a coach to the equation which both groups missed. Whoever the next QB and Head Coach is a lot of pressure is riding.
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Hall of Famer
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There should be a great RB there in the 3-4th rounds... Mason, Sankey, Simms, Hyde, Williams could all be there when we pick in the 3rd, and I would be shocked if we didn't grab someone from this group.
Getting a top tier CB my prove more difficult given our needs at QB, WR, ILB & OG. The top 12 or so CBs will likely be gone by the time we pick in the third round, if they go quickly like they have recently. Really depends on how they rank the players and our needs at which position, and of course how they are able to fair in FA.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Quote:
Last 5 years Browns weren't terrible enough to get Ryan, Stafford, Bradford, Newton, Luck, and RG iii.
Rank Bridgewater, Manziel, Bortles, and Carr to the QB's Browns passed on these last five years Flacco, Sanchez, Locker, Ponder, Tannehill, and Gabbert. Where would Teddy, Johnny, Blake, and Derek rank compared to Ryan, Stafford, Bradford, Newton, Luck, and RG iii?
Cool idea 
Luck
RGIII {pre-injury}
Manziel
Stafford
Bridgewater
Newton
Carr {lacks intangibles for me, has everything else}
Bradford
Ryan
Flacco
Bortles
Tannehill
Ponder
Locker
Sanchez
Gabbert
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 380
1st String
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1st String
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 380 |
Quote:
Quote:
Last 5 years Browns weren't terrible enough to get Ryan, Stafford, Bradford, Newton, Luck, and RG iii.
Rank Bridgewater, Manziel, Bortles, and Carr to the QB's Browns passed on these last five years Flacco, Sanchez, Locker, Ponder, Tannehill, and Gabbert. Where would Teddy, Johnny, Blake, and Derek rank compared to Ryan, Stafford, Bradford, Newton, Luck, and RG iii?
Cool idea
Luck
RGIII {pre-injury}
Manziel
Stafford
Bridgewater
Newton
Carr {lacks intangibles for me, has everything else}
Bradford
Ryan
Flacco
Bortles
Tannehill
Ponder
Locker
Sanchez
Gabbert
Lol can't be serious. Is that your ranking in order? Johnny ahead of Ryan and cam etc. And ahead of teddy. Carr? Seriously?
Hopefully no one making our decisions is from the state of Texas.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,197
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,197 |
Sorry not comparable. Ben plays professional football. He may extend some plays but he plays within his offensive scheme.
Manziel has played college ball not the same game.
Look I do not take away anything that Manziel has done in college. He is very accurate and has mad escapability. But his game, the way he played in
college does not make him a prospect for every team in the NFL. He could prosper in the right situation if he commits himself to his craft.
Myself, ( and if I stand alone so be it) do not see him as a good fit in Cleveland. There is no way I would take him with the fourth pick.
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
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Lol can't be serious. Is that your ranking in order? Johnny ahead of Ryan and cam etc. And ahead of teddy. Carr? Seriously?
Hopefully no one making our decisions is from the state of Texas.
Bear in mind this is when they were coming out... not as of today. Newton has gotten much better as a pro.
It's OK, I wasn't expecting my rankings to be popular, man I remember how people were killing me when I drafted JJ Watt #3 overall for the Bills to play 3-4 DE in our interactive mock draft.
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Posts: 6,202
Hall of Famer
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Myself, ( and if I stand alone so be it) do not see him as a good fit in Cleveland. There is no way I would take him with the fourth pick.
I don't know who I would say would be a good fit ... But I do know who hasn't....And I don't want to see any more of those... Not going to even name them.. don't have too..
All I'm thinking is no more boring ass coaches and QB's....
Maybe a change is what this org needs... I'm willing to try un normal... crazy...Exciting..... to Boring ... no excitement ... Yawn ...there's always next year bottom of the league play
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 380
1st String
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1st String
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 380 |
Quote:
Quote:
Lol can't be serious. Is that your ranking in order? Johnny ahead of Ryan and cam etc. And ahead of teddy. Carr? Seriously?
Hopefully no one making our decisions is from the state of Texas.
Bear in mind this is when they were coming out... not as of today. Newton has gotten much better as a pro.
It's OK, I wasn't expecting my rankings to be popular, man I remember how people were killing me when I drafted JJ Watt #3 overall for the Bills to play 3-4 DE in our interactive mock draft.
My bad didnt mean to sound like arse. I just think the past few years qbs minus last year have been way over drafted. No way Johnny or bortles would be high firsts 5 years ago. Of course Carlos Hyde would have gone in the first those years also
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
I completely agree... there's really no reason that Gabbert, with his mediocre production in a crappy-defense Big XII whould ever have gone in the first, Locker had a terrible senior year, and I think Ponder that high shocked everyone.
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