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http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/politics/...illion/3641861/ Quote:
CLEVELAND -- City Councilman Jeff Johnson tells Channel 3 that the Cleveland Browns want $42 million worth of public money for the planned improvements to FirstEnergy Stadium
Johnson and other council members were already briefed by the Browns and Mayor Frank Jackson's team on the deal that has been negotiated.
Johnson says the Browns are paying all the costs upfront. That includes a $62.5 million loan from the NFL to the Browns that was recently approved.
The facility is 15 years old, built with taxpayer money when Cleveland was awarded an expansion franchise in 1998.
Johnson says the city is being asked to pay $2 million a year over 15 years, with money coming from the city's capital improvement fund.
Johnson says $12 million will be paid from sin tax revenue before the tax expires in 2015.
Johnson tells Channel 3's Tom Beres that he will oppose the funding plan.
Council is expected to discuss it next week.
They are putting up all the money upfront and are asking the city to pay in over time which isn't really all that unreasonable.
So, the team puts up 120 million with 62.5 borrowed from the league that they need to pay back, then 42 million from the city. Basically that means the team is paying 7 million over time.
Last edited by Damanshot; 11/19/13 03:38 PM.
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Quote:
http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/politics/...illion/3641861/
Quote:
CLEVELAND -- City Councilman Jeff Johnson tells Channel 3 that the Cleveland Browns want $42 million worth of public money for the planned improvements to FirstEnergy Stadium
Johnson and other council members were already briefed by the Browns and Mayor Frank Jackson's team on the deal that has been negotiated.
Johnson says the Browns are paying all the costs upfront. That includes a $62.5 million loan from the NFL to the Browns that was recently approved.
The facility is 15 years old, built with taxpayer money when Cleveland was awarded an expansion franchise in 1998.
Johnson says the city is being asked to pay $2 million a year over 15 years, with money coming from the city's capital improvement fund.
Johnson says $12 million will be paid from sin tax revenue before the tax expires in 2015.
Johnson tells Channel 3's Tom Beres that he will oppose the funding plan.
Council is expected to discuss it next week.
They are putting up all the money upfront and are asking the city to pay in over time which isn't really all that unreasonable.
So, the team puts up 120 million with 62.5 borrowed from the league that they need to pay back, then 42 million from the city. Basically that means the team is paying 7 million over time.
that's not that bad....
but I believe the team is still paying more than 7 mill. they are paying 42 minus 120. the 62.5 is just a loan from the NFL that has to be repaid
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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Cleveland Browns and City of Cleveland to announce deal on FirstEnergy Stadium financing | cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com/naymik/index.ss...#incart_m-rpt-2CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Cleveland taxpayers are kicking in $22 million toward the $120 million worth of improvements to FirstEnergy Stadium proposed last week by the Cleveland Browns. The city will contribute $2 million a year in each of the next 15 years from its general revenue fund to the Browns, which is paying up front the cost of the renovations. The true cost of the city's contribution is $22 million, not $30 million, because the money is being committed at the present-day value of the dollar. Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson and CEO Browns CEO Joe Banner made the announcement Tuesday afternoon from City Hall. Jackson said the city would not sacrifice any services to residents to make the payments. As part of the deal, the city will give the Browns organization more input on how to spend about $12 million of the $24 million already in the stadium's existing capital improvement fund set by the stadium lease and fed by the existing Cuyahoga County tax on alcohol and cigarette sales, known as a sin tax. In exchange for having input on the capital repairs fund, the Browns will allow the city to reduce its payments to the capital repairs fund in the final years of the lease. Banner said the deal is a modest investment by the city based on its lease obligations. Banner and Jackson said they would support a campaign to extend the sin-tax, which expires in 2015 and is solely dedicated to the FirstEnergy Stadium's capital fund. Jackson said a new sin-tax would help reduce the city's liability. The deal avoids a drawn out and potentially costly legal battle over the stadium lease, which spells out repairs and improvements that must be made by the city and the team. But the lease language leaves room for debate over some improvements. Banner said the city would owe them millions more if it were held to the lease. The city believes the deal is fair and reflects its lease obligations.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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Quote:
Quote:
http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/politics/...illion/3641861/
Quote:
CLEVELAND -- City Councilman Jeff Johnson tells Channel 3 that the Cleveland Browns want $42 million worth of public money for the planned improvements to FirstEnergy Stadium
Johnson and other council members were already briefed by the Browns and Mayor Frank Jackson's team on the deal that has been negotiated.
Johnson says the Browns are paying all the costs upfront. That includes a $62.5 million loan from the NFL to the Browns that was recently approved.
The facility is 15 years old, built with taxpayer money when Cleveland was awarded an expansion franchise in 1998.
Johnson says the city is being asked to pay $2 million a year over 15 years, with money coming from the city's capital improvement fund.
Johnson says $12 million will be paid from sin tax revenue before the tax expires in 2015.
Johnson tells Channel 3's Tom Beres that he will oppose the funding plan.
Council is expected to discuss it next week.
They are putting up all the money upfront and are asking the city to pay in over time which isn't really all that unreasonable.
So, the team puts up 120 million with 62.5 borrowed from the league that they need to pay back, then 42 million from the city. Basically that means the team is paying 7 million over time.
that's not that bad....
but I believe the team is still paying more than 7 mill. they are paying 42 minus 120. the 62.5 is just a loan from the NFL that has to be repaid
Oh my,, typo alert, I typed 7 million when in reality, they are paying all but 42 million of the 120 million. That number is 78 million that the team is actually paying. (that's assuming there aren't any cost overruns and we pretty much all know that's not likely so they probably will end up ponying up more)
The first 12 million the city is paying for is coming from an existing sin tax that expires soon. so that money was actually earmarked for maintanence and repairs anyway.
And I gotta say this, no way that stadium is a viable facility going forward without a continuation of that sin tax anyway.
Raising 2 mil a year in Cuyahoga county is chump change in the bigger picture.
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That should at the very least quell any moving rumors.
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You knew it was coming... this is why there was the flashy press conference and articles to hype public interest BEFORE this was brought up.
I say forget it. Let the team pay for it. They throw this much away regularly on free agents... let them spend a little on us and have us get something back for once.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
You knew it was coming... this is why there was the flashy press conference and articles to hype public interest BEFORE this was brought up.
I say forget it. Let the team pay for it. They throw this much away regularly on free agents... let them spend a little on us and have us get something back for once.
I think we knew the day that Banner and I think Haslam both brought up the notion of improving the fan experience many months ago that at some point, Cuyahoga County was going to be asked to pony up.
The total cost being 120 million and the Browns paying 78 says they are committed to Cleveland and of course, that's a good thing.
But we own that facility. It belongs to the people of Cuyahoga County. If you build something like that, you probably should keep in mind that there are long term costs associated.
42 million is a lot of money, but spread out over what will end up being more than 15 years seems reasonable in this day and age.
While we are on the subject, about 20 something years from now, you may see the team ask for a new stadium.. Just thought I'd be the first to tell ya 
Oh, I wish the Browns would pick up the whole tab as well.. But I doubt that happens,
#GMSTRONG
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Just noticed this on the Browns site. http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-cen...16-e72882514375Haven't watched it yet but the headline reads that the Mayor and the Browns have agreed to a financing deal.
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
42 million is a lot of money, but spread out over what will end up being more than 15 years seems reasonable in this day and age.
I doubt it would stretch out that long. I am thinking a 10 year note to pay for capitol improvenent....that probably falls in line with how all of that will be depreciated. But that is the Browns. The city may be on a timeline as you present.
That said, seems like a good, fair deal for all involved. Over the course of time the city would be paying money anyway. This is probably only a bump of 15 mil or so over that period, and in return the people get a updated stadium better able to serve other events.
Win/win in my book.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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j/c
I believe to some degree, the entire thing is a sham. I understand that there is no way to avoid it however. I believe one only needs to look at what Lerner paid for the team and then what he sold it for to figure out all that is happening here is tax payers end up continuing to line the pockets of billionaires.
As it stands now, that is the status quo. People worth billions tell cities that are either in default or on the brink of it, that they must cough up money. That simply oozes how much owners are dedicated to the city and its people.
The upside to this is that the city gains a lot in return from taxes and business due to having an NFL team. So it's not like a city doesn't get a return on that investment.
It's just that on the very face of it, one would think that a billionaire in no way is in any actual need of that money and in the long haul, will reap many rewards even if he picked up the tab in such a case.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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They explain in the article about how the City will pay. They also say the Browns are putting up all the money up front with the help of a 62.5 million dollar loan. How they'll amortize it is something I don't know.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Quote:
You knew it was coming... this is why there was the flashy press conference and articles to hype public interest BEFORE this was brought up.
I say forget it. Let the team pay for it. They throw this much away regularly on free agents... let them spend a little on us and have us get something back for once.
Do guys own businesses to give away things?
Doesn't the city profit from having the Browns here?
I like the deal for both parties. Once again, Banner proves his worth.
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Quote:
You knew it was coming... this is why there was the flashy press conference and articles to hype public interest BEFORE this was brought up.
I say forget it. Let the team pay for it. They throw this much away regularly on free agents... let them spend a little on us and have us get something back for once.
Agreed. If they want the cities money, then they should go win a super bowl first.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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Should read,
"City asks Browns for W-L record renovations"
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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After the performances of the last two weeks, if I were the city, I'd tell the team to bugger off AND I'd raise their taxes.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Just a question for you local dogs: Has anything started on the stadium improvements? See any action down at the stadium?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Thanks. I was just curious.
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Quote:
See any action down at the stadium?
There was this one time under the bleachers in High School.. oh wait, that's not what you meant.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Quote:
See any action down at the stadium?
There was this one time under the bleachers in High School.. oh wait, that's not what you meant.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
See any action down at the stadium?
There was this one time under the bleachers in High School.. oh wait, that's not what you meant.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
After the performances of the last two weeks, if I were the city, I'd tell the team to bugger off AND I'd raise their taxes.
I understand you thinking that way, but that is truly short sighted and just about as bad a knee jerk reaction as firing Chud was.
Unless of course if your one of those that would rather see the team just leave and never return.
I'm pretty sure that's not you.
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Quote:
Quote:
After the performances of the last two weeks, if I were the city, I'd tell the team to bugger off AND I'd raise their taxes.
I understand you thinking that way, but that is truly short sighted and just about as bad a knee jerk reaction as firing Chud was.
Unless of course if your one of those that would rather see the team just leave and never return.
I'm pretty sure that's not you.
If they want money from the city, they should be required to put a better product on the field first.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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Quote:
I understand you thinking that way, but that is truly short sighted and just about as bad a knee jerk reaction as firing Chud was.
Unless of course if your one of those that would rather see the team just leave and never return.
I'm pretty sure that's not you.
While nobody wants to see the team leave, we are back to a point made by posters earlier in this thread.
It's corporate blackmail. Give you a poor product, demand money or they'll move. There's no accountability there in the slightest.
So that's actually where fans and cities that have NFL teams are left. Pony up no matter the product on the field, or we're outta here!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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But that's not the deal between the city and the team (and even the fans).
The team delivers football games and the city consumes it. There's no mention of having it be a winner.
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Quote:
Quote:
I understand you thinking that way, but that is truly short sighted and just about as bad a knee jerk reaction as firing Chud was.
Unless of course if your one of those that would rather see the team just leave and never return.
I'm pretty sure that's not you.
While nobody wants to see the team leave, we are back to a point made by posters earlier in this thread.
It's corporate blackmail. Give you a poor product, demand money or they'll move. There's no accountability there in the slightest.
So that's actually where fans and cities that have NFL teams are left. Pony up no matter the product on the field, or we're outta here!
I said that part about moving, I'm not sure they ever threatened to do that. Which kinda kills the whole blackmail thing.
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I don't really buy that as a general rule. Maybe not in this case per say.
If you refuse to build a team a stadium, they move. If you refuse to update an outdated stadium, they move. On a fairly regular basis we've seen owners use tactics to get what they want from cities and fan bases.
Even when they know they're going to get the stadium they can move. See Art Modell.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Every corporation does it... give me a tax break or I'll build my new factory somewhere else, improve the infrastructure around my plant or I'll move, renegotiate our union contract or I'll build somewhere else...
As long as somebody is willing to make you a better deal, that's the way it will be... The only difference is, those places don't have hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of fans who are emotionally invested.. at best they might have a few thousand employees.
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Quote:
Every corporation does it... give me a tax break or I'll build my new factory somewhere else, improve the infrastructure around my plant or I'll move, renegotiate our union contract or I'll build somewhere else...
As long as somebody is willing to make you a better deal, that's the way it will be... The only difference is, those places don't have hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of fans who are emotionally invested.. at best they might have a few thousand employees.
I agree. You don't want my team or my factory, there are plenty of places who would love to have it.
Name a town or city that wouldn't love to have a car plant or cotton mill set up shop....or a pro sports team.
Some provide jobs, some provide civic pride. No city mayor or state governor is going to turn that down. States, cities, and towns compete against each other.
That said....the Cleveland teams aren't going to move unless the city/region withers away and can no longer support the teams.
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Isn't it true he legally can't move the team until 2019 anyways because of the stadium?
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Quote:
Isn't it true he legally can't move the team until 2019 anyways because of the stadium?
That is what I have read, but anything can be bought out.....even at full price. I suppose another city could pay the full lease and have the Browns play games in their stadium. I don't know that thee language states the Browns have to play in Cleveland.
That said, the Browns aren't moving.
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Quote:
Isn't it true he legally can't move the team until 2019 anyways because of the stadium?
that's only 5 years away
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Quote:
Quote:
Isn't it true he legally can't move the team until 2019 anyways because of the stadium?
that's only 5 years away
I thought it was 2029? 30 year lease signed in 1999. I could be wrong though.
But like Peen said, anything could be bought out.
Last edited by Flap; 01/14/14 10:34 AM.
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Quote:
Every corporation does it... give me a tax break or I'll build my new factory somewhere else, improve the infrastructure around my plant or I'll move, renegotiate our union contract or I'll build somewhere else...
As long as somebody is willing to make you a better deal, that's the way it will be... The only difference is, those places don't have hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of fans who are emotionally invested.. at best they might have a few thousand employees.
Which IMO equates to corporate blackmail. Only it's legal for them to do it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
Quote:
Every corporation does it... give me a tax break or I'll build my new factory somewhere else, improve the infrastructure around my plant or I'll move, renegotiate our union contract or I'll build somewhere else...
As long as somebody is willing to make you a better deal, that's the way it will be... The only difference is, those places don't have hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of fans who are emotionally invested.. at best they might have a few thousand employees.
I agree. You don't want my team or my factory, there are plenty of places who would love to have it.
Name a town or city that wouldn't love to have a car plant or cotton mill set up shop....or a pro sports team.
Some provide jobs, some provide civic pride. No city mayor or state governor is going to turn that down. States, cities, and towns compete against each other.
That said....the Cleveland teams aren't going to move unless the city/region withers away and can no longer support the teams.
Yes, it is done all the time. But again, I think I was the one that brought up about them moving. I don't think the Browns brought it up as blackmail to the city. At least I didn't read or hear about it...
Oh and Peen, there is an article on Cleveland.com about the renovations starting on the stadium. I think it was you that asked about it wasn't it?
#GMSTRONG
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J/K
Has anybody told Haslem that having a pretty stadium is nice but when you dont field a competative team nobody cares, It's like owning a Lambordini to drive but no keys to start it or tires. It does you no good just sitting in the driveway.
Haslem This team needs a QB not a scoreboard, Get us a big time QB and if we score more points than the score board can show, than go ahead and ask for money for a new one, but also keep in mind if our defense gives up more points than then the score board can show...well enjoy picking out a seat, there is going to be alot of empties to chose from.
Ya know everybody is worried about this or that, but we need 1 thing a wining QB, Get this team a winning QB and suddenly Banner & Lombardi look alittle smarter, Haslem FBI inquires seem alittle more BS ish, Were all more willing to reach alittle deeper in our pockets for a new scoreboard or allow that weinner salesman to stand in front of the stadium on Sundays for atleast the first half, Sun shines brighter, birds cherp nicer, our drafts will suddenly look like there's a plan behind it, or a reason we drafted a player...all we need is a winning QB
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,419 Likes: 1371
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,419 Likes: 1371 |
I get your point, but FirstEnergy is probably one of the worst stadiums in the league and players I'm sure are aware of this. If having a winning team is part of the overall problem with this team, I wouldn't be surprised if potential players have opted to go somewhere else because of the stadium....its ugly, bland and generally considered a joke.
Now, I'm not saying the stadium is THE determining factor for a player but I think it plays a role in the overall view/perception that is the Cleveland Browns.
Just my opinion but a new look to play catch up with everyone else in the NFL would add a little civic pride for me.
Tackles are tackles.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
Quote:
Quote:
Every corporation does it... give me a tax break or I'll build my new factory somewhere else, improve the infrastructure around my plant or I'll move, renegotiate our union contract or I'll build somewhere else...
As long as somebody is willing to make you a better deal, that's the way it will be... The only difference is, those places don't have hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of fans who are emotionally invested.. at best they might have a few thousand employees.
Which IMO equates to corporate blackmail. Only it's legal for them to do it.
Why is it corporate blackmail? If you are buying a car and you have bought your last 4 cars from the same place, do you not still go to multiple dealerships looking for the best deal, looking for the most incentives? As consumers we call it "shopping" why when a corporation does it is it called "blackmail"?
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
Quote:
I get your point, but FirstEnergy is probably one of the worst stadiums in the league
You must have never seen a game in a California stadium. They're all dumps. 
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,895 Likes: 1356
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,895 Likes: 1356 |
I guess if you wish to compare cities that are already broke in which many cases the actual consumer, (the public) doesn't even have a say, to a person car shopping, that's your right.
I don't see it that way.
These cities are starved for revenue and jobs. So they compete to get these things by letting the taxpayers foot the bill. I think all of these huge tax breaks and payoffs should be illegal. But they're not.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Browns ask city for 42 million for
Stadium Renovation
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