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I could see somebody thought what I posted was defending him...hard to know on a message board but was that directed to me??? Only cause I didn't see anyone else saying much in the way of defending Weeden...if so would you care to elaborate?
Turd just doesn't move me in a football discussion...lol 
DJ...I was thinking this...only cause weirder things have happened.
I think its safe to think we are going to invest in a QB and go in with that pick that we will be looking to develop him while Hoyer gets the start.
We will have 3 QBs. The Online kid and who knows until we see him play what he could possibly bring. We got the older vet who still locks in and loves to check down. We got the big arm kid who has struggled to fit in with what the coaches teach n preach.
What if Weeden who yes is 30 but we forget is that 2nd year player - gets the nod (we release Campbell n Tanney) but this will be his first experience of a YEAR TWO in a system...what if it starts to get comfortable and what he does in practice he starts to execute it on the Field?
I know the pat answer is - It ain't happening.
What I'm saying is that there is a possibility that we still keep him - I'd rather have him than Campbell. (oh oh....I'm not talking to the Campbell champion am I or was that Toad?) He will be in a competition so that the WHAT IF LOW ODDS scenario could come to fruition.
I suspect he won't be here...but you never know...I know I took the long way around to get to it. 
JMHO
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Go Browns!
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What if Weeden who yes is 30 but we forget is that 2nd year player - gets the nod (we release Campbell n Tanney) but this will be his first experience of a YEAR TWO in a system...what if it starts to get comfortable and what he does in practice he starts to execute it on the Field?
A smart FO would have at least left that door open as you just never know in this league, but they fueled an already existing witch hunt from the fanbase by trashing him repeatedly in the media, then Chud with his "he's all we got" comment etc etc. That ship has sailed. There's no way back.
And before the usual suspects think that I envision Weeden as an emerging starter that got misunderstood in Cleveland: No, his play on the field took care of that, but he still would have had value as a backup and trade value at the cap hit he represents. That value was burned too with the dumb comments. How can any FO trash their own guys anyway without releasing them shortly after? Going back to him is as spineless as it gets, really. Last situation like this was the Mangini-Jerome Harrison situation, at least then Mangini didn't publicly diss him, he just jerked with him on gamedays and then "used" him when his arse was on fire, that could at least somehow qualify as "tough love", but the Weeden situation? It's downright disgusting. He got booed when he entered the Bills game and still won it. Has anyone, from FO, to coaching to players stepped up for him after that game? I think Gordon was the only one who made some positive comments about him. I haven't read anything else in that direction, because they already kicked him to the curb before that game…and now they are spineless enough to "use" him a 2nd time? So ugly. If they had any backbone, they'd throw in the Youtube-QB and go down with him…at least like men.
My, and I think EO's point, is that it would make more sense to keep a guy like Weeden and release Campbell as the 3rd QB, but this won't happen now after their ran their mouth off too early about him. The equation would have been this: keep a 3rd year in his 2nd season in the system at 2mil or Campbell in his ?th season in this system at the same 2mil? All things being equal, it would be a lot of cash for any 3rd string QB and arguments could be made for both. But here's the kicker: if we release Campbell, we take no cap hit and free up 2mil, while we owe Weeden his 2mil anyway. So if it's close, it'd be the smarter move to keep Weeden, but again I stress: that's not possible now, from the self created PR nightmare.
All that said, Weeden has some trade value since we'd eat most of his salary, thus any team would get a backup level QB for next to no cap hit. That alone has some value and should be worth a 5th or 6th, but since everyone knows we HAVE to fire him, we can't expect more than a 7th.
99% that BOTH will be off the roster come next TC. Only Hoyer will remain. I think we will draft one and sign a FA, my guess is Cutler or McCown, whoever the Bears let go, probably the latter. Hoyer, McCown + top 3 round rook I would be ok with.
Can we talk about other Browns players now, please? 
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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The only important thing now is moving up in the draft. As usual, we play for high draft pick.
Winning is overrated anyway. We get our attention and glory by always being in the top five pick range come draft day  we should be granted a trophy for our hard work...
I've been playing/cheering/rooting/whatever you want to call it for draft position since game 2  
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Can we talk about other Browns players now, please?
Not as long as you make false and ridiculous claims such as this one:
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A smart FO would have at least left that door open as you just never know in this league, but they fueled an already existing witch hunt from the fanbase by trashing him repeatedly in the media, then Chud with his "he's all we got" comment etc etc. That ship has sailed. There's no way back.
And before the usual suspects think that I envision Weeden as an emerging starter that got misunderstood in Cleveland: No, his play on the field took care of that, but he still would have had value as a backup and trade value at the cap hit he represents. That value was burned too with the dumb comments. How can any FO trash their own guys anyway without releasing them shortly after? Going back to him is as spineless as it gets, really.
You make crap up. You dis the FO at every turn. There is no talking football w/you. Your act is beyond old and more than lame. Start talking football w/out all the FO bias and excuses for Weeden, and maybe people will talk to you. Until then, it's kinda funny thinking of you sitting there in your pink Weeden shirt and pulling your hair out because you hero is taking grief. 
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I'll start with some "suggestions":
Ok, but you ain't gonna like it. I'm as football dumb as the next dolt. lol
Most of this going to be the type of post where I ramble on about stuff I either haven't given much thought about, or have but it was so long ago it's escaped my feeble old mind or I am just thinking on the run. I don't run much anymore but I do think that way sometimes.
The reason I'm even doing this is because I agree with you that discussing certain things are a waste of time and are, like you alluded, on the level of gossip because really, who gives a rat's ass. This whole season I've fallen prey to that sort of posting because I've been so disgusted with the ups and downs of the team.
Anyway, here goes...
• Little_ Agreed, Little is not a reliable starter. He is a great downfield blocker. I realize that's not the only job for a WR but he does that well. I don't know exactly why he doesn't get targeted more. His drops? Does he not run good routes? Do we have QB's who cannot see the field but look for Gordon and then check downs? I guess I'm asking if his failings, other than drops, is the same as Cameron's. Cameron showed what he can do if he's targeted in the first few games. Since then neither Weeden nor Campbell can find him. So is it the same with Little?
• Bess_ other than his bad game vs KC, (which he totally made up for the very next game vs the Rats), I'm not sure what problems you see specifically in him. He did have that "coulda rolled over for a first down" play but other than that he's been catching the ball when it's in his wheelhouse. Is he not getting open or do our QB duo have trouble seeing him when they need to?
• Norv Turner_ I don't want to believe anything you say about him but all of it could be true. I feel that even as experienced as he is it's got to be as difficult to deal with so many QB changes as it is for the WRs. And how the hell do you create game plans without a RB? Think about it, he has to create a gameplan with no running game whatsoever and gawd-awful QB play. With no running game he's forced to make the QB beat the other team and we don't have that kind of QB on the roster. Especially with no running game.
I understand what your saying about the Mike Martz "who cares" when it comes to protection and agree that it won't work without a very good, quick decision making, quick release QB... which we don't have and apparently none of them can be taught to be that either. But I sure don't think Norv has let the NFL pass him by. You gotta have something to work with and you admit yourself that he has neither the QB nor the RB nor the OL to accomplish much. The man is charged with putting out fires not only with the game planning but also within the game when players don't execute and fall behind.
• Chud_ He's the only other fireman on the staff. First he deals with missing their primary receiving target, then he has to hold the team together through the trading of TRich and all the commotion that followed that through the national media and within the locker room, then through all the QB changes. That's one hell of a lot to pile onto a first-time, first year head coach. As a coach his gameday decisions have been pretty damn good. A huge improvement over HCs we've had in the past. His head is squarely in the game. So what if the players like him? That doesn't make him a "players coach" per se. RAC was a players coach. Mangini was a dictator. Shurmur was lost. Chud has a good handle on his job I believe. Especially considering all the turmoil that surrounding the team through the first 10 games.
• Pass rush_ I don't know what happened here either. As you said, it started out being one of our defensive strengths and now when it matters most it disappears. I'm not about to blame it on the rookie Mingo. I feel he's playing well for a rookie especially considering missing a month early in the season. Kruger is not getting the sacks but he is getting pressure. It's a new defense for all of them. I'm sure they'll have their ups and downs. But it is frustrating when the downs happen at the most inopportune times.
I now think I know why Horton will not be called upon to become a HC any time too soon and that's good for us. His bravado remarks about the defense coming into it's own by Thanksgiving and especially his remarks about Gipson being his MVP are just that, bravado remarks. He knows as well as anyone that the defense will take some time to come together so he uses these remarks, I think, to motivate his guys. Not so sure that approach is a good thing for a HC. It doesn't seem to have worked on the defense.
I'll add a positive here. Rushing defense_ Since our return we have not been able to stop the run. Not in all these years with all the coaches and all the players. All of a sudden we are stopping the run like a 3rd year defense. We've yet to allow a 100 yard rusher and that's a bigger than huge accomplishment coming out of the gate and continuing to be consistent with it. Maybe that's to the detriment of the pass rush, I don't know. It could very well be why the pass rush is lacking with so much focus on the run. But no dominating defense is built in 10 games. Next season we should start to dominate on both schemes.
• RB_ I have to agree with you on the negligence of the RB position. We started training camp with RBs looking like a strength. Then Hardesty and Lewis go down for the season. Then we trade TRich who wasn't doing sht anyway. Those were our top three guys. How do you overcome that? Knowing the situation as it is I can't believe the FO didn't bring in someone younger and stronger and fresher than McGahee. I will say something about him. In the Steelers game we were faced with a 3rd and short and I thought 'bring in McGahee, he knows how to get those yards'. In came McGahee and he got 'em. He's smart. I realize the mind is willing but the body can't follow, however, it's his veteran leadership and knowledge in how to play the game that makes him valuable. Not just in teaching the young guys but also on the field. Still, his on the field effectiveness is diminished. We need or needed to bring in a RB, you named a few, who can take it outside and be a threat with speed, agility and vision. I'm not so sure most of those you mentioned are worth it over the course of half a season. Most of them seem to be two game wonders. Maybe I'm wrong. But behind our OL I think that's the best we could hope for at this stage.
• G and RT play_ I hear ya. When last season ended I thought that at least we didn't have to worry about our OL because they were looking like one of our better team strengths. This season I've often wondered if bringing in the other OL coach, (can't think of his name), to help Warhop hasn't somehow muddled up the whole thing. I realize that initially with Lauvao injured and replaced with Cousins it was a long shot to accomplish anything. I thought that once Lauvao returned it would all straighten out. It hasn't. I don't know why, that is, unless the new coach has messed with what was working for them last year. We've not been a great rushing OL even last year, but it regressed so much with the same players that something other than the players has to be contributing to it. I dunno.
• Gipson_ It's hard for me to watch the DBs on TV and this season I've not had the ability to replay the games like I have in the past. Even then, by the time a camera shows the DBs it's hard for me to recognize just what had transpired. It's easier when you can see the play develop. But with the fascination of the QB taking up so much camera time we never get to see plays develop beyond the line of scrimmage. And then there's the issue of me not knowing defenses and coverages well enough to figure out who should be doing what even when I do get a look at it. So I'm pretty dang hard pressed to evaluate DBs on any level. I'm going to the game Sunday and will get a better look but doubt the secondary will be my main focus. Likely my main focus will be on "Where the hell is the beer guy?!"
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The reason I'm even doing this is because I agree with you that discussing certain things are a waste of time and are, like you alluded, on the level of gossip because really, who gives a rat's ass. This whole season I've fallen prey to that sort of posting because I've been so disgusted with the ups and downs of the team.
First of all, let's remember that the Browns let it be known that this was an evaluative year. Secondly, let's try to remember that the season is not over yet. I think it is too early to make final conclusions on what has transpired this year. Finally, let's remember that Dj tries to make the current FO look bad in every single post he makes.
We can make some evaluations and can form some opinions that may or may not change as the season unfolds:
--Weeden stinks. The team gave him a fair chance. He failed. At least they found out that he is not the guy going forward. Smart play.
--TRich was not worth being such a high pick. Kudos to the FO for identifying that and obtaining a first round pick for a dud. This should help address the first the prior evaluation. We can either use that pick on a qb or move up to get one. Brilliant.
--We saw that Hoyer at least deserves a future look after Lombardi found him on the scrap heap. Smart move.
--Mingo has a lot of growing to do. I have seen flashes. I think he will be an effective pass rusher, but he has to become more consistent and learn the nuances of playing a new position. Too early to call.
--Skrine and Gipson have true finds. I was really worried about both positions, but both these guys have really stepped up. Skrine is actually providing tighter coverage than Haden lately. Gipson has very good range and good instincts. He has been out of position a couple of times and missed a few tackles, but for the most part he has been above average at both. People saying otherwise are either making things up or don't know what they are seeing.
--I think we were also evaluating guys who contracts who are coming up in the next year or two.
+Haden has really improved his play. I was disappointed in his play last week--not so much the long TD pass---but his overall demeanor. However, I think he has done enough to prove he is a keeper.
+Mack? I think the guy is a solid citizen and a very good player. I hope they see the same things.
+Ward? He's okay. Makes some very good plays. However, he misses too many tackles and blows coverages so bad that he isn't even in the play. Guys like Gipson take the blame for his blown coverages. I hope we keep him, but I doubt we pay him top dollar.
--Kruger might not have a lot of sacks, but he is playing very well. He does a tremendous job of setting the edge and is a big reason our run defense has improved so much. He also draws a lot of attention. He is playing well.
--D. Bryant is an excellent player. He has been our best defender. The guy is so quick off the ball. Very disruptive. It is he, not Taylor, who is the biggest stud on the line.
--Sheard transitioned very well to the 3-4. I always said he was more of a 3-4 guy than a 4-3. Most people around here were way off in their evaluations of him. Good thing the Browns were not.
--DQ is proving that he can play very well in the 3-4. Again, the board experts were wrong. He is all over the field and is one of our best players.
--I heard the new guys were not sold on Schwartz. I can now see why. He is really struggling. He will probably be upgraded.
--Norv: The game hasn't passed him by. Good God! I haven't been totally happy, but passed him by. Please don't listen to that agenda crap. I think Norv often gives up on the run too quickly. I would like to see us come out of the gate quicker in games. Good play callers typically score on their first and/or second series. I don't think Norv has been great, but he can get the job done. We need a qb.
--Chud: I like how this guy is able to allow his coordinators to coordinate and how he handles the HC duties. That's tough to do. Believe me. He has shown that he had no give up in him and that he isn't afraid to take a chance. I was disappointed w/how the team came out in the Pittsburgh game. The disaster against the Bengals warranted a very good coaching job. It was upsetting to see us play so flat and uninspired.
Overall: Again, I think the Browns still have some football to play and this will evolve. They did an excellent job of getting a first for TRich and they found out that Weeden wasn't the guy. They had to give it a shot, though. I never thought the guy could get it done--------remember all those arguments I had w/the "guys who know football?" But, I get why the Browns had to find out for sure. They found Hoyer. Campbell was actually a good acquisition. I think his rib injury affected his play more than people are realizing. They did a great job of improving the defense. They could not undo all the miscues of the previous regime in one year. I am confident moving forward, but will stop short of saying I am sold.
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Gipson has very good range and good instincts. He has been out of position a couple of times and missed a few tackles, but for the most part he has been above average at both. People saying otherwise are either making things up or don't know what they are seeing.
Myself being possessed of lesser technical expertise, will defer to your and Horton's opinion of Gipson. However, I'm just not seeing it and remain to be convinced... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Ok even though not addressed I sort of am guessing that whatever was stated was towards DJ not me.
Just a couple of things.
OL...it is confusing on the dual OL Coach thing. I know Sullivan is suppose to be the Zone blocking scheme specialists. But not being there to see exactly what is going on my guess is that it cannot be a good thing having two heads.
Schwartz I don't know what to think of him - I see glimpses of good play but all too often he is over matched. Not to dispair, if we choose to and if he is willing to make the move...he just might end up a Stud OG. We might draft another and move him inside? I cannot make up my mind who the FO/Coaches are disatisfied with Lava or Greco? Neither is Bad but something seems to be missing from both.
Our running game or the lack of is over blown - true we do not have a stud to make plays where there is little. However we are averaging 3.8 yards a carry which happens to be TOPS in our Black n Blue Division. We simply have not committed to the run. I think I know why. Our offensive philosophy is to gain yards in chunks that run run and high pct. pass is just too much that has to go right to sustain a drive. When we have a legit passing attack we actually will run more...and with better success. But we are not as inept running the ball as people think...we don't get any fantasy points with our RB that is for sure. We do not have the RBs to take a 10 yards run and make it into a long TD or a 20+ run. We get good execution we get the 7-8. We actually don't fumble much...but its seems that whatever mistakes we have made has turned out as bad as it gets.
I like Fozzy only cause he's the only guy we got who can get to the edges. To create a flow you have to spread the D...Vertical or Horizontal.
As bad as Weeden is I think he can spread the D vertical better than Campbell.
He has made a concerted effort to get rid of the ball faster. His execution is lacking.
Hoyer is a two game gem but he showed some excellent qualities....enough to think of him as a Starter even if its a temporary one.
So many on the D are good. Not enough talk about RUBIN...man does he set the tone for our D. Yes Bryant is play maker but Rubin is a big key on great Run D. 3rd down has been the Achilles Heal for the D. We were blitzing more DBs early on I don't see much of that of late. Teams game plan against us also by getting rid of the ball quickly. Our short fall in talent are Nickel LBs or Nickel Safties well possibly both. Our starters are all solid with only the 2nd ILB being a ???? and a lack of depth.
DQ...knew this D would have different results n just cause of the Nom de Plume 3-4 it didn't mean we were running the same D that we saw from RAC n Mangini...this is not a read n react 3-4 D where you need Big ILB to take on blockers/Interior.
Skrine is turning out to be a Stud...not just ok. He progressed every season but this year it was about game 4 or 5...HE GOT IT!...he was always heading in that direction...but he got it.
I have been impressed with Chud for all the reason why you stated ddubia...he's done a great job and unlike Tomlin he's not just a cheer leader on the sidelines.
I do not like Tabor as a ST coach...he probably impresses with his x's n o's but I'm just not that impressed with them. It also hurt us to lose Benjamin he was the kind of guy that was giving us MO changing sparks. But we all can agree it comes down to the QB play. I know I wasn't here for the draft but the only QB I liked was Glennon as I envisioned him to be good for our Vertical O.
We all know how tough it is to call. We had to see what Weeden had, he obviously showed some progress but that was in practice and he could not bring it to the Games. I think he learned a lot from Hoyer's starts regardless of what has been quoted. I've read just about every article and watch most of the pressers. I don't really see this throwing Weeden under the bus eliminating him forever.
Odds are we won't keep him - but I like him better as a backup than Campbell - I have no clue on the new guy Tanney. What I liked about this front office is they didn't BLOW ANYTHING UP...its so easy for these new guys to state - Well they have failed so we are going to the table and just sweep that unfinished puzzle to the floor and open a new Box/puzzle and start putting our pieces together.
Sheard has been such a find. I thought he had a chance to make the transition in my wildest dreams I didn't see him being this good this fast. Mingo is not bad at all. He just has to make the transition from college to NFL he has to use his long arms better as he lets the OTs or TE get into his chest. He needs to have confidence in his moves and get just a tad stronger. His explosion is impressive. He actually is covering much better and has progressed there.
We have a good team with a lot of good pieces - we most definitely will upgrade where ever we can which is the duty of all FO. But there is no desperation moves except for one - QB and Hoyer might make that less desperate. Our recent demise has pretty much centered around Turnovers! Its not a lack of talent or a lack of coaching. A heck of a lot of Wrong place wrong time type of thing.
I'm looking for our D to pitch a shut out this week. If we can work on eliminating the mistakes we should show that we are way ahead of a team like the Jags. We are way ahead of any assembled team we've had since 1999 including our two winning seasons.
And in closing - I've seen this a lot and I'm not a doctor but I swear Little might be miss diagnosed and has a form of A.D.D. I think he loses his patience a lot - the revolving QB door has hurt him the most. He gets very emotional and it literally kills him when he is Wide Open for a TD and the QB refuses to look at him or the throw is so inaccurate that it was an opportune lost. I've seen that happen to him more than any other WR. There just is too much good that he does and it seems like an obvious ON OFF switch. I hope we don't give up on him. I like him a lot and think he has been a good influence on Gordon not bad.
I think this is more a - so much do be thankful post. I like the FO - I like the coaches - and I like the good young talent we have assembled here to move forward and grow!
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Really enjoyed reading your last post. For being feeble minded and not running much, it made more sense and seemed less bias than others. Not rah rah, pro or con FO and coaching staff. We need more of that here. Any time you make a comment, you're either making excuses or labeled in some way. Pure Football has more the makings of political threads these days. I agree with DJ that talking about Weeden is a non issue and is a waste of time and space. But not for some of the reasons he stated. We all pretty much knew that if Weeden didn't progress in the new system, he would be gone. He hasn't. So we can all make up reasonings beyond that if we so choose, but that has been in the cards all along and most everyone on here knew it. JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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• Bess_ other than his bad game vs KC, (which he totally made up for the very next game vs the Rats), I'm not sure what problems you see specifically in him. He did have that "coulda rolled over for a first down" play but other than that he's been catching the ball when it's in his wheelhouse. Is he not getting open or do our QB duo have trouble seeing him when they need to?
I liked the post as well but will pull this specific paragraph to add my own color....
I believe another issue some may have in the fact that the vet WR is leading the league in drops...or at least was the last time I checked. He was touted as the guy to rely on if it was 3rd and 4 and you needed to get a first down. He has not delivered on that so far.
Now, the QB is to blame for some of this. I'll point out Weeden which I think has been an issue for many of the WRs dropped passes on short routes-- he has no touch and tends to wing it no matter the route and distance. At least that's what I've seen.
However, there are some other concerns I have about Bess although it can certainly change the more time he spends in Cleveland.
- He's just average at everything...speed, size, and production in his career. He doesn't excel at anything. And those that think he was excellent in Miami are mistaken IMO.
- His contract. He is guaranteed $6M w/ the life of the contract $11.5M from everything I've read for a few more years. At what he has produced so far, it think it's legitimate to be concerned about his value. I doubt the FO will get rid of him (and I'm not suggesting it whatsoever) but that's a pretty good chunk of change for what he's done. Again, this could change for the better.
- The trade to get him. Specifically, we moved down the fourth round (swapped) and lost our fifth. I know we have added ammo from the Steelers and Colts trade, but its apparent this FO is largely going to judged by this draft. A higher fourth and keeping a fifth may have been better for them considering what we've seen from Bess. Maybe I'm splitting hairs on this deal but I am a proponent of using picks for draftees or trading up/down during the draft for the most part.
The one thing I believe is a plus due to Bess' presence is his rebounding personally from his past transgressions and his apparent work ethic in the locker room. From everything I read he is one of the first guys to the office and one of the last ones out. That's very valuable. That could benefit players beyond the WR corp on what it takes to be a professional. It was this angle of the deal that changed my initial sourness of it. Training camp reports about his impact made me feel better and I thought he'd be producing at higher levels. Again, with many of our WR, the QB play impacts it but so far I think it's fair to say don't we're not seeing the Davone Bess that we thought were getting.
Furthermore on the Davone Bess vein as our slot guy.....One thing I always wanted to see was more plays with Greg Little in the slot. We've seen a bit of that in the past but with Bess here for the foreseeable future, that may not be the case for much longer. Greg is bigger, maybe just as fast if not faster, and both have shaky hands. I think Little makes more sense there but that's just me.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 12/01/13 01:14 PM.
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Great post dub.
I agree that the one, big positive this season has been our run D. It is consistently good. The Rest? From pass rush to coverage has been all over the place. Big reason for our stabilized run D is the depth on the front 7. Both Kruger and D.Bryant have helped a lot there, but also improved play from backups like Hughes, Winn and Kitchen. Rubin is Rubin, he's having a strong season vs the run too.
I expected struggles in coverage with the Lack of depth at DB. And we're extremely Lucky that neither of our top 5 DBs have even missed a game or snaps....and still,we're very inconsistent there. I obviously disagree with Vers when it comes to our S-play and I tend to disagree with the excitement regarding Skrine, who improved a lot, but still isn't as good as most think. Hell, Reading some of the posts on here, you'd have to think we are an elite D with above AVG to good players everywhere. Reality says something different, so I just can't Share the excitement, although I see the improvements, but it's still disappointing for me considering the all-in approach this past offseason.
With that we're talking pass rush: to me Mingo is rapidly turning into a disappointment. He struggles pretty much everywhere and has regressed as the season goes. He even cost us that crucial punt block TD vs Cincy when he had not one but two brainfarts on the play. First not blockig the guy and then standing there when he had a chance to stop the TD. We're talking the 6th overall pick here and he's struggling as the 3rd OLB. That's the equivalent of Haden being a bad Nickel-CB in his rook season, but he wasnt. He quickly became a reliable 3down player at CB. A struggling situational pass rusher is not what anyone should be content with at 6 overall. That said, I Love his Motor/athletcism combo, it's rare, so there's hope left and I hope to see clear improvements from him in our last 5 games.
As for Kruger: 3-4 OLBs get paid and measured by Sacks, not pressures. Guys who have high sack Totals also have many pressures. What separates the decent to elite is the Nummer of ultimately impact plays. I'd be Interested in league wide pressure stats though, if they exist somewhere?
The O has been a mess. My disappointment with Bess, again, is $\impact related. We could have signed Reggie Bush for the same guaranteed money, without any draft pick compensation. Who would you rather have? Bess is not making enough impact, he's playing like an AVG Slot WR that gets paid like an elite one, that's my problem.
With Norv, it's more than just what he does here. Look at SD, they've taken off wout him on O, that's alarming. I think his style is done and has been figured out and this dog is just too old to learn new tricks. I'm sure he's a heck of a coach, but think Chud should take over, as I have more hope in him to adjust to the league.
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As for Kruger: 3-4 OLBs get paid and measured by Sacks, not pressures. Guys who have high sack Totals also have many pressures. What separates the decent to elite is the Nummer of ultimately impact plays. I'd be Interested in league wide pressure stats though, if they exist somewhere?
I agree for the most part. Yes, OLBs get paid guaranteed $$ because of sacks, but pressures can be almost as efficient even if the pressures far outweigh the sack totals. And sometimes sacks can come somewhat organically because of other defensive players around you that are also good and take up the offensive game plan. I guess one could say Kruger greatly benefited from that in Baltimore.
Overall, I am not upset with Kruger BECAUSE of his pressures. I think he has helped disrupt the QBs timing plenty of times. An overall indicator for me is if he continues to build on the number of pressures because, some will translate to sacks. I think Kruger's pressures have had an effect on what opposing offenses have been able to accomplish, but yes, sacks are better.
One thing that irks me is some people justifying his signing by talking about his run stopping which I think is a little silly and overrated. He got paid the $$ to rush the passer in this attacking style 3-4 and he will be judged by his production in that regard, whether pressures, sacks, etc.
So far, I can't hate on the Kruger signing because I think he is making an impact on the defense, although I think Bryant is the better signing and thought so when both deals went down. We'll see if the $40M guaranteed comes back to bite the organization as time goes on. But now, I'm good.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Agree and that's why I'd be interested to see a league wide "pressures" or QB hurries stat to verify if he is indeed very good there, because I'm sure players with 10 sacks have high pressure numbers too
#gmstrong
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I'm getting quite sick of Chud's "we'll get it fixed" comments virtually every presser. You're not getting it fixed. The team is regressing backward, not progressing forward. As Pat would say "we battled" - Chud says "we're looking forward to next game" and "we'll get it fixed". 
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I'm getting quite sick of Chud's "we'll get it fixed" comments virtually every presser. You're not getting it fixed. The team is regressing backward, not progressing forward. As Pat would say "we battled" - Chud says "we're looking forward to next game" and "we'll get it fixed".
Every coach in this town gets to a point very quickly where there is nothing left to say except the same tired old things because nobody is ever able to get it fixed.
In this regard, Chud is Shurmur is Mangini is Crennel is Butch is Palmer, etc ad nauseum. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Just looking at the remaining schedules, it looks plausible that both Buffalo and Jacksonville will finish with better records than us (including head-to-head tiebreakers), so if there is any consolation (like we search for every year) our Draft position should improve nicely. There's an outside chance that even Oakland should move ahead of us, and Washington will come down to tiebreakers.... bascially, we could move up as high as 5th, I believe.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Now damnit, that's a loser attitude!
We Can Be Number ONE!!!
We're only two games out of first, and one game out of second. Think Positive!
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I'm POSITIVE that we suck and will finish in last place in the AFC North. How's that? 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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That's just not good enough, mister!
We want last place in the ENTIRE NFL!
We need to suck better than anybody else, and by God, we're Cleveland, WE CAN DO IT!
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In this regard, Chud is Shurmur is Mangini is Crennel is Butch is Palmer, etc ad nauseum. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
I see what you did there.
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1st String
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Jags may not be a gimme. We cannot look past anybody (especially with Weeden the Nimble).
Will we need to pick up another QB for backup? 
With Weeden at the wheel,there is always a shot for any team to beat us.
Well the Browns just signed Tanney from Dallas,so at least we won't have to be subjected to Weedens flipper routine anymore I hope.
If you somehow think that Tanney will be starting over Weeden, you're going to be sorely upset.
oh no I won't be...because I refuse to watch one more game with that idiot Weeden under center.I would rather they just run the ball every single play,punt and try to kick 75 yd FGs,than to subject myself to the likes of him!!!!
Well then, I guess that you won't be watching the game this weekend. Hope that you have fun doing whatever it is you'll be doing while us fans watch the Browns play.
Lolol....losing to the Jags is not something any fan should want to watch...
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Jags may not be a gimme. We cannot look past anybody (especially with Weeden the Nimble).
Will we need to pick up another QB for backup?
With Weeden at the wheel,there is always a shot for any team to beat us.
Well the Browns just signed Tanney from Dallas,so at least we won't have to be subjected to Weedens flipper routine anymore I hope.
If you somehow think that Tanney will be starting over Weeden, you're going to be sorely upset.
oh no I won't be...because I refuse to watch one more game with that idiot Weeden under center.I would rather they just run the ball every single play,punt and try to kick 75 yd FGs,than to subject myself to the likes of him!!!!
Well then, I guess that you won't be watching the game this weekend. Hope that you have fun doing whatever it is you'll be doing while us fans watch the Browns play.
Lolol....losing to the Jags is not something any fan should want to watch...
The Browns play, I'm watching if I possibly can.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I'm POSITIVE that we suck and will finish in last place in the AFC North.
How's that?
I am positive we will finish at 5-11
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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A pox upon you, sir!
We can do 4-12!
Where is your team spirit?
We need the Texans and Vikings to win a couple.
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I think we'll do what we do best in those last 3 meaningless games: win them. Maybe not all three, especially not if the Steelers are still in it, but I can see us beat the Jets and Bears. I wanted us to win the JAX game, just to have one other "meaningful" game in NE next sunday. That would have felt like a 1st round PO game at 5-7...at least for Browns fans  Now? I really hope we lose out. Getting good position to take the best possible QB is more important than some feel good, fluff stories this offseason. I won't root against the Browns, but deep down I hope we show that we're as good if not better than our opponent and then lose out on some dumb plays by players who won't be here next year anyway, just like we did last game.
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my only hope for the season is that the Browns can beat the Bengals, Ravens, and Steelers in the same season for the first time in NFL history.
it's not likely with the way we are playing right now, but it's the only thing worth rooting for left and I'm going to cling to it.
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It's our Super Bowl.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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I'm getting quite sick of Chud's "we'll get it fixed" comments virtually every presser. You're not getting it fixed. The team is regressing backward, not progressing forward. As Pat would say "we battled" - Chud says "we're looking forward to next game" and "we'll get it fixed".
This team is all in for 2014 draft. Playoffs in 2015 or else.
After 55 years, I'm walking away from this dumpster fire. Good luck to everyone who continues to hang on. You'll need it.
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