|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,569 Likes: 124
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,569 Likes: 124 |
That post was in regards to the 2013 season. The moves they made have proven out to be failures for the 2013 season. We are 4-11 if you have not noticed.
They MUST have a great 2014 off season. Because the majority of their positive moves have lead to this upcoming off season.
If you took a step back and looked at this past year you can clearly see that the FO decided that they could not win before the season started. They cut vets including some of the free agents they brought in. They signed a slew of UDFA. That is what FO's do in evaluation years. That is not what Haslam promised the fans. The results of year 1 is no better than what Junior brought us plain and simple.
The Trent Richardson trade is a positive move but it was not done to win in 2013. Now, if they actually had a decent back up in place when they made the move then it would have been better. The simple fact is there has been no running game at all.
They took a 5-11 team and took them to the heights of 4-12 (already counting the Steelers game as a loss). That is why they are being graded as a D minus. They put all of their eggs in the 2014 basket and I am hoping they have an "A" offseason. They MUST have an "A" offseason.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
I don't even get the logic about the 2013 season.
We disagree on the moves. No problem. You voiced your opinion on the moves and I countered them. We disagree. No big deal.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
--How is Jason Campbell a miss? He is playing better than our former #1 draft choice. We got him relatively cheap. How is that a miss?
He's won just a single game. Hardly something hang your hat on and say, "He's better than the guy that hasn't won a game."
Say what you want about stats, they mean next to nothing when you're counting the wins and losses.
Quote:
Owens was our nickel corner and while he wasn't great, he wasn't bad. And how do you count guys like Kellen Davis and Shayne Graham as misses? They were street bums that we took a shot on. Seems like you are being overly harsh.
Owens was cut. Shayne Graham was an NFL kicker with some measure of success in the league.
Quote:
Trying to trade Sanford for Moffitt was a miss? How? Sanford is a guy we later cut. We didn't gain anything from the attempted trade, but how did we lose anything?
Moffitt failed the physical?
Quote:
The Bess trade was a miss? How so? The "Browns traded their fourth-round pick (No. 104) and fifth-round pick (No. 164) to the Dolphins for Miami's fourth-round pick (No. 111) and a seventh-rounder (No. 217)." How in the world is that a miss? We did get some production from Bess. We exchanged lower round picks for a proven WR. He did not play well, but he is better than someone who probably wouldn't even make the team and we still have him under contract.
It was a miss because he didn't play well. We could have used a player that we had on the practice squad and gotten as much (or more) production out of them. That counts as a miss to me, especially since Bess was touted as a possession receiver that was being counted on to move the sticks.
Quote:
Josh Cribbs isn't doing anything. Dawson is having a good year, but so is Cundiff, and I bet he is cheaper.
True about both Cribbs and Dawson. As for Cundiff, well, same position as with Graham except that Cundiff has had less success.
Quote:
I would rather have Mingo than any of those guys. Did you really mention Jarvis Jones?
Can't really quibble with you here. Mingo has been the better player.
Quote:
The kicking fiasco? I don't think our kicker or our punter have been a problem all year. Care to provide some numbers that say otherwise?
Two blocked punts in the same game, one of them returned for a TD? That game was a horrible loss and that 'fiasco' played a huge role in it being a loss.
Quote:
I think you are reaching w/your analysis. Giving them a D- is absurd. The TRich trade alone blows away all those "negatives." Signing Hoyer and Campbell were positives. Trading Colt for a draft pick was a positive. Moving up in next year's draft was a positive.
I would only disagree with you about the signing of Campbell, but I'm not sure what you mean by 'moving up in next year's draft'. If you mean the draft picks that were traded to Putzburgh and Indy for two picks this year that are a round earlier, then I wouldn't disagree too much. If you mean that we have draft picks that we can use to move up in this upcoming draft then I would totally disagree with you.
The more I keep looking at it, I'm still going to propose that we trade back and acquire more selections.
Quote:
Why "must" next year be an A? You have apparently forgot that Haslam has said that he believes in continuity. This isn't Junior's Browns. If fans like you wanna walk........then walk, but I think the days of the a hostile media and an ignorant fan base calling for mass changes are over.
I can agree with that. I don't think Haslam & Co. are going to be swayed in their decision processes by the fan base or the local media. Period. That could have been said of the previous regime that reached on Weeden and it cost them their jobs after that season. It's going to cost Weeden his after this one.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
That post was in regards to the 2013 season. The moves they made have proven out to be failures for the 2013 season. We are 4-11 if you have not noticed.
We all know the record, Dawg. It doesn't need to be pointed out.
Quote:
They MUST have a great 2014 off season. Because the majority of their positive moves have lead to this upcoming off season.
Well, they have to show real improvement next season and a team contending for a playoff spot (at the least) should be the goal. We shouldn't be here in late December talking about how bad the team has been for the past month or two. There should be discussions on how the Browns are either in the playoffs or at least a scenario in which they make it into the playoffs.
Quote:
If you took a step back and looked at this past year you can clearly see that the FO decided that they could not win before the season started. They cut vets including some of the free agents they brought in. They signed a slew of UDFA. That is what FO's do in evaluation years. That is not what Haslam promised the fans. The results of year 1 is no better than what Junior brought us plain and simple.
I don't really agree with this at all. They bring in UDFAs because all teams do. They need to have guys on special teams that they don't want to be using primary starters to do that job.
Also, they fully intended to win as many games as possible. Unfortunately, we did have some key injuries. Dion Lewis (yeah, he figured to be a key player going into the season) and Travis Benjamin (an electrifying return man) went down early. Then, the team put in Hoyer for an 'injured' Weeden (thumb) and the team responded positively only to see Hoyer get lost in the third game after being elevated to the starting job.
And what do you think Haslam promised fans? He said that they will build a contender for years to come. He didn't promise that there would be one overnight.
Quote:
The Trent Richardson trade is a positive move but it was not done to win in 2013. Now, if they actually had a decent back up in place when they made the move then it would have been better. The simple fact is there has been no running game at all.
They weren't looking at it from as success in 2013. They realized early that Richardson wasn't the answer going forward and got excellent value in the trade. The truth of the matter is that the Browns didn't have a running game after Dion Lewis went down. It had nothing at all to do with Trent Richardson. The team didn't have a running game with him on the roster.
Quote:
They took a 5-11 team and took them to the heights of 4-12 (already counting the Steelers game as a loss). That is why they are being graded as a D minus. They put all of their eggs in the 2014 basket and I am hoping they have an "A" offseason. They MUST have an "A" offseason.
Well, I won't disagree with that, although the game tomorrow hasn't been played yet. They could end up 5-11 again and considering the problems that the team has faced, it's really a remarkable feat.
I thought that Chudzinski & Co. would have produced more wins, but reflecting on the situation and how certain players have performed in regards to how they were expected to perform, I'd give them a C-. I really would have expected more but it's still an improvement over what I gave the last regime, which was a solid F for the entire tenure. Even if I accepted your grade of a D-, it would be an improvement over the grade I gave the last crew.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 825 Likes: 27
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 825 Likes: 27 |
I'd give the new regime an "I" for incomplete for their grade this year. It's impossible to give them a grade, because everything they did was a set-up for the coming off-season, from sitting on a ton of cap space, trading in the draft for future picks, and even trading T-rich for a future 1st. They had no intention of competing this year, despite what Jimmy Haslam has said. They even called it an "evaluation" year (coach-speak for tanking).
I'm not saying this is a bad strategy, and the new regime definitely deserves ample time to turn this thing around, independently of what has happened in the past. It's just extremely frustrating for a fanbase that has seen this plot too many times before.
The front office will earn their money this off-season, or set us back another 3-4 years. It's no use making favorable trades for future 1st, 3rd, and 4th round picks if you don't get good players with those picks. It's no use sitting on cap space if you can't resign your own players (the ones worth resigning, anyways) or sign other young, talented players that can help you win.
It will look pretty bad if you inherit a team with 5 Pro Bowl-caliber position players (4 of them under age 28) and an overwhelming amount of free cap space, and you can't get to at least .500 after 2 years. If they don't finish at least 8-8 next year, this regime will get a big, fat "F".
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 330
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 330 |
I did a draft on http://www.first-pick.com/NFL/DraftGame.aspx like a month ago. I just did one now...if the browns pulled this off. So much offensive fire power. Round 1 Pick 6 (ATL): Teddy Bridgewater, QB, Louisville (A) Round 1 Pick 18 (NYJ): Mike Evans, WR, Texas A&M (A) Round 2 Pick 5 (ATL): David Yankey, OG, Stanford (B+) Round 3 Pick 7: Adrian Hubbard, OLB, Alabama (A) Round 3 Pick 19: Tre Mason, RB, Auburn (A) Round 4 Pick 6: Lache Seastrunk, RB, Baylor (A) Round 4 Pick 27: A.J. Johnson, ILB, Tennessee (A) Round 5 Pick 5: Jeremy Hill, RB, LSU (A) Round 6 Pick 4: J.C. Copeland, FB, LSU (A-) Round 7 Pick 3: Jeremy Gallon, WR, Michigan (A)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,999 Likes: 369
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,999 Likes: 369 |
I see no way at all that we draft 3 RB.
I really didn't watch enough college football overall this year to comment much beyond that. I would be stunned if we were to trade down if our choice at QB is there at 4.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635 |
+ 1 on both statements.
Especially the RB one. That would be crazy if they did that seeing Dion and Baker are already on the team and have showed shadows of hope.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,429 Likes: 15
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,429 Likes: 15 |
I am not an OSU Homer by any stretch of the imagination , but I have Carlo Hyde on my wish list in a big way .. I think is the perfect back for our division and a great compliment to Lewis or Baker .. Pick up a " Real " snober knocker Guard in the second or third and and a Real Full back in the later rounds .. I find it hard even for this FO to screw this draft up ! Bunch of OL talent coming out / Bunch of WR depth to the draft .. Just plug in a couple of names ..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635 |
I am a OSU Homer, lol, and I'd love to have Hyde on this team. He'd be a great compliment to the more smaller, shifty/speed backs that we already have on the team in Dion and Baker!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 330
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 330 |
I fully agree on drafting three RBs. In real life I would for sure draft two RBs. I am hoping for 2 RBs somewhere in our 2nd, two 3rds and two 4ths. Do a Ridley/Vereen combo like the Patriots did a few years ago.
I love Carlos Hyde too and hope we get him. He would be a great add.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
thought it was funny - not knee slapping funny but Ironic funny I guess.
--I would fire Sullivan, the OL coach, and let Warhop have complete control. Of course, the Browns will probably do the opposite, because Sullivan is the one w/ties to our new coaches.
--I would look for an upgrade for Tabor, the Special Teams coach.
Of course you stated the rest of the staff stays...so the only two you wanted gone and were the first n second thing on your list of changes to make. Happen to be the 2 coaches with some decent responsibility remaining. I guess you can say nobody else wanted either.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
I know how to call them, don't I?  I really do wish we would have kept Warhop, though. I thought we were better w/him alone than w/him and Sullivan.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,266 Likes: 2
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,266 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
All this debate about this front office vs. the previous has gotten me thinking. If YOU were in charge, what would you do to fix this team? .
I'd lose the brown pants. The turd vs product on the field analogy is way to obvious.
The paying customers don't need a reminder.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,767
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,767 |
I give my coach certain parameters, tell him my door's always open and get out of his way.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 330
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 330 |
Now that the Browns have hired coaches a more realistic mock offseason is doable.
Resign:
Alex Mack-C
TJ Ward-S
Billy Cundiff-K
Sign:
LeGarrett Blount-NE-RB
Greg Jones-HOU-FB
Dexter McCluster-KC-WR
Chris Spencer-TEN-C/G
Alex Carrington-BUF-DT
Josh Wilson-WAS-CB
Jim Leonard-BUF-S
Draft:
*Trade Pick 4 to DET for R1 Pick 10 and R2 Pick 13. Bridgewater and Bortles were already gone a pick 4. I like Manziel but I figured I'd trade down and see what happens*
Round 1 Pick 10 (DET): Mike Evans, WR, Texas A&M (A-)
Round 1 Pick 26: C.J. Mosley, OLB, Alabama (A)
Round 2 Pick 3: Derek Carr, QB, Fresno State (A)
Round 2 Pick 13 (DET): David Yankey, OG, Stanford (A-)
Round 3 Pick 7: Bishop Sankey, RB, Washington (A)
Round 3 Pick 19: Lache Seastrunk, RB, Baylor (A)
Round 4 Pick 6: Marcel Jensen, TE, Fresno State (B+)
Round 4 Pick 27: Lamin Barrow, ILB, LSU (A)
Round 5 Pick 5: Kenny Ladler, FS, Vanderbilt (A)
Round 6 Pick 4: A.J. McCarron, QB, Alabama (A)
Round 7 Pick 3: Jeremy Gallon, WR, Michigan (A)
Depth Chart:
QB: Derek Carr, Brian Hoyer, AJ McCarron (3)
RB: LeGarrett Blount, Bishop Sankey, Lache Seastrunk, Dion Lewis (4)
FB: Greg Jones (1)
WR: Josh Gordon, Mike Evans, Dexter McCluster, Travis Benjamin, Greg Little, Jeremy Gallon (6)
TE: Jordan Cameron, Marcel Jensen, Gary Barnidge, (3)
OL: Joe Thomas, John Greco, Alex Mack, David Yankey,Mitchell Schwartz, Chris Spencer, Jason Pinkston, Chris Faulk, (8)
DL: Desmond Bryant, Phil Taylor, Ahtyba Rubin, Billy Winn, John Hughes, Alex Carrington, Ishmaa'ily Kitchen,(7)
LB: Paul Kruger, CJ Mosley, D’Qwell Jackson, Jabaal Sheard, Barkevious Mingo, Lamin Barrow, Quintin Groves, Tank Carder (8)
CB: Joe Haden, Buster Skrine, Josh Wilson, Leon McFadden, Julian Posey (5)
S: TJ Ward, Tashaun Gipson, Jim Leonard, Kenny Ladler, Johnson Bademosi (5)
K: Billy Cundiff (1)
P: Spencer Lanning (1)
LS: Christian Yount (1)
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum How would YOU fix the team?
|
|
