|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,197
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,197 |
Kiper in September:
http://www.youtube.com/v/2nTuTv2qs9Q
Kiper in January:
Manziel top pick in the draft.
Wow Mel, quite a change of heart??
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556 |
I think a lot of folks watched Manziel struggle when he had the injured thumb which he hurt while throwing inside the pocket lol. The wobbly inaccurate throw is what they saw and that is the image that sticks in their brain. They missed out on a lot of his tremendous throws and momentum back breaking runs.
There has been reports on bridgewater that he played at 190lbs this year and that slight frame scares everyone. It will be interesting to see how he looks at the weigh in at the combines.
Folks there are 2 QBs you just have to watch today at the east west game in Jimmy Garoppolo who is just a fantastic pure passer and Jordan Lynch the runner and thrower. I have heard the Browns are really big on Garoppolo so something to watch today.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Why Kiper is full of Crap and dare I say...OVER RATED!
He said point blank nothing he can do during the season can change his mind and get him to move up INTO THE TOP 25...what a load of poop!
I listen to Mayock about DBs
I listen to Ron Jaworski about QBs
Kiper...hey props to him for exploiting something like the NFL Draft not even considered a viable market and making a nich for himself...wish I had the foresight to do that stuff. But I was still playing sports then and didn't disect the draft like I do now with the usage of Internet among other Sick Browns' fans like myself 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,002
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,002 |
Quote:
I have heard the Browns are really big on Garoppolo so something to watch today.
Just curious where you heard that from. It would make my draft day if we drafted him and I know we had scouts at a lot of his games.
What did you think of the Shrine game? I thought he looked great!
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
If you've ever watched the LSU games. Ego Ferguson and Anthony Johnson made his life hell. This is how you stop Manziel.
8 man front, 3-12 yard blanket
Defensive Line:
Athletic Lineman anchors the middle of the pocket, preventing a scramble up the middle. If Manziel moves left or right, the lineman push down the line of scrimmage accordingly. The two defensive ends push up the field and seal the edges, forcing Manziel to either slide foward and out the left or right. The last line (or blitzing LB) man rushes up the middle (where most of the pressure on Manziel comes from.)
Linebackers + Safety:
They blanket the middle of the field, focusing on 3-12 yards. Not only does this prevent Manziel from utilizing the middle of the field, but also, keeps Manziel in check on scrambles. The Free Safety roams the back half, looking to attack the deep ball throws.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805 |
And I burn you all day long with Cameron and Gordon on 8 yard outs.
Then I burn you with the out pump fake and release deep.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
Quote:
And I burn you all day long with Cameron and Gordon on 8 yard outs.
Then I burn you with the out pump fake and release deep.
Oh
So you admit that you want Manziel to be a pocket passer? The defense I just mentioned works because Manziel can't do anything about it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447 |
Quote:
Quote:
And I burn you all day long with Cameron and Gordon on 8 yard outs.
Then I burn you with the out pump fake and release deep.
Oh
So you admit that you want Manziel to be a pocket passer? The defense I just mentioned works because Manziel can't do anything about it.
Manziel, though incredibly effective on a scramble, actually had a higher efficiency rating from the pocket. He's also the highest rated QB this year with the deep ball from what I read. You sound like he has a poor deep ball and is purely a gadget QB, no? I disagree. Everyone knows the best way to hurt a short QB is inside pressure. The rest of what you said....not so sure on the accuracy of that.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234 |
jc PUKE . . . Report: Browns willing to trade up for ManzielPosted by Mike Florio on January 19, 2014, 2:32 PM EST Here’s one to write down and monitor. The Browns reportedly want Johnny Manziel. According to Jason La Canfora of CBS Sports, the Browns want Manziel badly enough that they would trade up for him, if they have to. Here’s the specific language of the report: “[T]hey are willing to trade up to land Johnny Manziel in the draft if need be, sources said.” Read literally, it means that the Browns will do whatever they have to do to move up and get Manziel, if that’s what it takes to get him. While limits surely will apply to the willingness of the Browns, who tried unsuccessfully (and possibly half-heartedly) two years ago to move up and get Robert Griffin III under different management, this report won’t help the Browns get the best possible deal, if it’s true. And if it’s true, it’s more proof that the next coach of the Browns won’t be able to pick his own quarterback — which could scare away any candidates that aren’t already convinced as to the merits of Manziel. The Browns currently draft fourth. The first three picks belong to Houston, St. Louis (via Washington), and Jacksonville, respectively. It’s also possible that “sources” are saying things they don’t believe. It could be that the Browns covet another quarterback, and that they hope Manziel gets picked before Cleveland chooses. Of course, if the report flows from a decision by the front office that Manziel isn’t the answer, the front office necessarily will have tied the hands of a head coach who decides that he wants Manziel. Regardless, the strength of the report is intriguing. Whether it’s true or it’s a smokescreen, it may not be a good luck for a Browns organization that currently is trying to make its job look more enticing. If the front office is making firm decisions about the draft before even hiring a head coach, that could be a warning sign for a candidate who may be more inclined to wait a year or two for another opportunity.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Easily my biggest fear heading into this draft.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
This is Smoke Season guys.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
Quote:
Easily my biggest fear heading into this draft.
Yup.
I don't have any reason to trust the guys running this team.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635 |
There also is minimal reason to trust anything La Canfora reports. I think he's been wrong with 99.9999% of the stuff he reports.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
There also is minimal reason to trust anything La Canfora reports. I think he's been wrong with 99.9999% of the stuff he reports.
Not true. He is probably the "insider" I trust the most when it comes to our current team because of his relationship with Lombardi.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234 |
Lombardi could be telling him to blow smoke . . .
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678 |
Quote:
Easily my biggest fear heading into this draft.
I want Johnny Football.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Right now the FO is not on the top of my respect list - but who in their right mind will let people know they like a player first off then let it known they would pay anything to get him...
I don't think this even has anything to do with strategic leaks. I think this is typical BOZO draft journalism about the Browns - like they know or something. Every year I hear the dumbest things they report about the Browns and the draft...What did he do talk to Grossi? read a blog? Hey if Bridgewater drops to us at 4...Bazinga! 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
Quote:
Easily my biggest fear heading into this draft.
I want Johnny Football.
Count me in as well.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,513
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,513 |
I'm alright taking him btu unless the Texans want him (which I doubt) I think he'll be there at 4.
<><
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
You guys remember when a bunch of reports last year said that Lombardi was in love with Jarvis Jones? Then something leaked about us liking Geno Smith as well.
I'll believe Manziel to Cleveland when I see it, but the one thing I actually think Lombardi might be competent at is creating smoke in the media. Think on it, if all the reports are that Cleveland is taking Manziel and you really think he could be a franchise QB, wouldn't you hop up above them and snag him?
Look at the track record: Not many people called the Mingo pick last year at all. He was pretty much a darkhorse candidate at #6 the whole time. Given the track record, I'm almost 100% positive that this pick comes down to Bortles or Carr.
*Also, I realize that we're working with a sample size of 1 offseason thus far, but let a fella get a theory going.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
Given the track record, I'm almost 100% positive that this pick comes down to Bortles or Carr.
What track record?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Quote:
Easily my biggest fear heading into this draft.
I want Johnny Football.
You also thought Tebow would be a Super Bowl MVP. 
I think Manziel will flunk out in the NFL.
Let's compare notes 3-4 years from now. I just hope we're not the ones to take the gamble.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,832
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,832 |
IF...AND I MEAN IF....this is true then banner and company are idiots. Why would you leak this even if true? One of the teams ahead of us, knowing this information will take us for everything ....you can kiss that 2nd first rounder goodbye. The arrogant little pun k isnt even worth picking in the first place as far as im concerned. He is a disaster waiting to happen........thinks he is god......take the kid bortles....he is perfect for the afc north. Johnny football will break like a twig. I have my doubts about this report....i mean i know joe banner is arrogant....but would he be this stupid to leak something like this?
" Now here you are running these dirty old streets tattoo on your neck fake gold on your teeth, got the hood here snowed but you can't fool me, we both know who you are"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Easily my biggest fear heading into this draft.
I want Johnny Football.
You also thought Tebow would be a Super Bowl MVP.
I think Manziel will flunk out in the NFL.
Let's compare notes 3-4 years from now. I just hope we're not the ones to take the gamble.
He still might!
None the less, that has nothing to do with this.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Re-watched his Bama game:
- he had TONS of time thanks to superb blocking, I'm talking 5+sec on many
- he threw a lot of jump balls to Evans for big gains and who bailed him out. Threw a lot of other ill advised up for grabbers. Didn't see many NFL Type throws
- his fade throws are flat out horrible
- his throws take some time to get there, he lacks NFL zip imho. I watched Boyd vs LSU right before and it wasn't even close on arm strength. Boyd was the better overall QB based on those two games only mho
- his best plays are based on smarts or come when he has to improvise. His ceiling, thus, is very limited
- I counted at least two batted passes at the LOS
I'd rather draft Boyd with a 3rd than Manziel in the 1st, let alone at 4th ovr, or (please not) after an uptrade.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,767
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,767 |
Definitely there at 35 (?) and a decent chance at 71.
Love the luxury of using 4 on something other than QB!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556 |
I really like Manziel and Bridgewater but I would not take a QB top 10 in this draft. I just dont see the huge discrepancy in the level of talent within those top QB prospects. Carr, Manziel, Bridgewater, Boyd, Bortles and now this kid Garoppolo who just blew me away in the shrine game with his quick release and poise are one big old pile of QB mess.
Right now I would probably take Evans or Watkins at 4 and then look to take Carr, Boyd or Garoppolo with the Colts pick. those guys that were pimping Garoppolo may just have been on to something. IMHO all are in about the same group that I had EJ Manuel in last year.
I take Clowney over anyone in this draft and I think Evans and Watkins are right behind him.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556 |
Oo and on Garoppolo, I think he is the wild card that is being tossed in with these others. I would not draft him based on the little i have seen of him but I saw enough to make me evaluate him intensely. Now on the little i did see, I saw a mid to late first round talent.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,767
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,767 |
I was thinking @71 but I fear that'll be a pipe dream after his performance and a chance to show himself again with a solid performance.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 326
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 326 |
I think I would have to also think very strongly about skipping out on QB at 4. Watkins and Garoppolo in Round 1 is sounding really nice.
I would not even rule out Garoppolo in round 2. We may be able to get him there, but I think if Cleveland goes that route they pick him with 26 to assure they get him because other team may skip the QBs early as well for better talent (Clowney, Watkins, and offensive tackles). Would hate to see Texans or Jacksonville pick him in round 2 before we get the opportunity.
If Mariota or Winston were available this year, I would say you trade up to #1 at any cost. There just isn't a QB in this class worth that and if we would do that for Manziel, I may lose my mind. I wouldn't hate him at 4 though.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Easily my biggest fear heading into this draft.
I want Johnny Football.
You also thought Tebow would be a Super Bowl MVP.
I think Manziel will flunk out in the NFL.
Let's compare notes 3-4 years from now. I just hope we're not the ones to take the gamble.
He still might!
None the less, that has nothing to do with this.
I meant it as a friendly barb.
I almost went as far as to explain it as much, but figured screw it.
I do see similarities, though. Manziel has a much higher chance to succeed in the NFL, but like Tebow, people are projecting his NCAA skill set to the NFL.
It won't translate. He has to completely reform his game and habits.
The question is, can he?
I'm not saying he can't, but I doubt it. I'm not seeing much upstairs with Manziel.
With Tebow, I told you outright that I thought you were way off base. I'm not as boldly confident with Manziel, but I highly doubt he succeeds at the next level.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,972
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,972 |
I have to admit I really liked what I saw in Garoppalo yesterday and I really like Watkins as a prospect opposite Gordon. But, and it is a huge but, if a QB like Manziel, Bridgewater, or Bortles falls to us at #4 they cannot pass him up.
If a possible franchise QB falls to your spot in the draft witout giving up additional picks yo MUST pull the trigger. If all 3 are gone and I do not think all 3 will be gone then I would have no problem taking Watkins. If they can get the QB with the #4 then they can spend the rest of the draft complimenting him.
Passing on a QB at #4 and taking a skill player and then taking a QB with the 2nd #1 reminds me too much of Richardson and Weeden.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556 |
Bortles is more of your late first to mid 2nd type pick and Bridgewater and his 190lb frame isnt worth a top 10 pick, and Evans style of play, maturity and size make him not worth a top 10 pick either. by draft day will any QB go top 15? I am not so sure.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Back in the olden days the Browns drafted a RB named Charles White. He looked great at USC running behind Munoz and Mathews. White was a bust as a pro.
That stroll down memory lane made me wonder if perhaps Mathews and Ogbuehi were making Manziel look better than he is.
I absolutely love this time of year... anybody who went to a small school and did well, question their competition... anybody who went to a big time program and did well, question whether it was them or the talent around them... I LOVE IT!!!!
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678 |
Who knows. You might be right, or we both might end up half right.
That was yesterday. Today I am leaning on the Browns saying Hoyer is the guy going forward, we take a Clowney or Watkins first and a stud guard with the second first rounder, then grap a QB to groom in round two or three.
But that is today. Who knows what tomorrow will hold? Heck, it's hard to be to definitive. We don't even know who is going to coach and what type of systems we might run,. I would think who we get and what we run might have some impact on who we draft and go after in FA.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 344
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 344 |
Quote:
I think with our 2nd first round pick is the point I would draft him... I wouldn't move up or use our 1st pick.
I believe that if they want him that should get him with the 4th pick ( Most early drafts have him dropping that far), but there is No Way that we should trade Up and give away another pick to get him. He is Not Worth It!!! JMHO Go Brownies!!!!
Who Let Da Dawgs Out? Woof, Woof, Woof!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864 |
I'm way too young to remember Munoz and Mathews in college. I do know this though, evaluating a running back with a great line and a QB are entirely different. Further more the evaluation process of QB's has come a long way since, what was that, the early 80s?
I think trading up for him is probably a mistake, but the FO is neck deep in this and I'm just a casual fan.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
Quote:
Who knows. You might be right, or we both might end up half right.
That was yesterday. Today I am leaning on the Browns saying Hoyer is the guy going forward, we take a Clowney or Watkins first and a stud guard with the second first rounder, then grap a QB to groom in round two or three.
But that is today. Who knows what tomorrow will hold? Heck, it's hard to be to definitive. We don't even know who is going to coach and what type of systems we might run,. I would think who we get and what we run might have some impact on who we draft and go after in FA.
I can get on board with this. If we hire Quinn, I have zero problems with Clowney.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864 |
Quote:
Quote:
Who knows. You might be right, or we both might end up half right.
That was yesterday. Today I am leaning on the Browns saying Hoyer is the guy going forward, we take a Clowney or Watkins first and a stud guard with the second first rounder, then grap a QB to groom in round two or three.
But that is today. Who knows what tomorrow will hold? Heck, it's hard to be to definitive. We don't even know who is going to coach and what type of systems we might run,. I would think who we get and what we run might have some impact on who we draft and go after in FA.
I can get on board with this. If we hire Quinn, I have zero problems with Clowney.
How can anyone even consider taking a guy who is already known for being weak between the ears at #1? This dude had 3 sacks, not more than 5 tackles in any game, took many, many plays off, already appearing to be entitled (speeding, loafing).
Dude had 13 sacks last season, 4.5 against Clemson. This guy reminds me so much of Vernon Gholston it's sickening. Gholtson has 14 sacks his senior year and I think 4 in the last game of the year, he put up sick combine numbers and was the 6th overall pick.
I keep hearing "Bruce Smith"... Srs? Smith had 22 sacks his last season in college.
I'm sorry, I saw nothing this year that makes me think "this guy is the next JJ Watt".
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 The Manziel tipping point
|
|
