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Legend
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Legend
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Opposing no2 WRs have caught 73 balls for almost 800yds and 8 TDs. That's fact and considering overall stats of those receivers, that easily qualifies for bottom 3rd league wide, if not worst 5.
That's a little bit more than "a completed pass"
Skrine is a fine nickel corner, pretty good one actually and those do have value, but a CB he is not
So what would an acceptable yardage be for this stat? 500 yards? 600 yards? 700 yards?
If 600 yards would be acceptable, that would give us a top 5 pass defense right now.. are we a #2 CB away from having a top 5 pass defense? It would put us almost dead even with Carolina...
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Wait a minute. You guys are acting like he is accurately representing the stats he used. I am saying there is no way that Skrine gave up all those completions. It is a stat that is designed to misrepresent the truth, therefore, it should not be given any credence.
Now, if he proves that Skrine gave up all those completions, than his argument is legit. Until then, it's just another poor attempt to criticize the FO.
I am finding it hard to believe that more people haven't noticed how well Skrine has played this year. All CBs give up completions. Skrine's coverage has been very good this year. And again, I couldn't stand the guy last year and did not think he was going to be good this year. I can admit to being wrong. Some can't do that.
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Legend
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Wait a minute. You guys are acting like he is accurately representing the stats he used. I am saying there is no way that Skrine gave up all those completions. It is a stat that is designed to misrepresent the truth, therefore, it should not be given any credence.
Now, if he proves that Skrine gave up all those completions, than his argument is legit. Until then, it's just another poor attempt to criticize the FO.
I am finding it hard to believe that more people haven't noticed how well Skrine has played this year. All CBs give up completions. Skrine's coverage has been very good this year. And again, I couldn't stand the guy last year and did not think he was going to be good this year. I can admit to being wrong. Some can't do that.
there's no way to accurately measure that.
for us to truly know who was the bum(besides owens) we have to go back to every game and watch.
skrine wasn't on the #2's all the time, owens had his share, haden as well with crossing patterns and such.
but owens definitely was getting burned more. skrine, i don't remember him getting handled like that toward mid season and beyond.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Legend
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Legend
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Wait a minute. You guys are acting like he is accurately representing the stats he used.
Actually that's the exact opposite of what I meant to do... my point was, indirectly, that we are NOT one CB away from being as good as Carolina... His stats do not account for zone coverage, situations, they don't take into account penalties (and we've had a lot of them in the secondary).. there is a lot that goes into evaluating an entire unit, let alone a single player, above and beyond catches and yards by other teams #2 WR..
I have neither the time, nor the desire, to rewatch every pass play to see what coverage we were in and who was guarding whom... but Horton better be doing it
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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I kind of knew that. Sorry.
There is a site that does all that work w/stats for corners. Like I said earlier, someone posted [on the other board] the stats for Haden and Brown two years ago. It gave up exactly how many times they were targeted, the # of completions allowed, and the # of passes defensed.
It was probably pay. He was always finding good articles. Recently, he's not been posting much over here.
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Do you guys actually read my posts? I've said it's no clean stat, but it does 100% confirm that we're getting beat by WRs that do better against us than their AVG play, which in turn means we're not getting the job done on them. I also said, that Qwens/Skrine shared no2 duties and that S-play, esp. FS late in the games imho, plays a role in it. And the site you're probably talking about was PFF, you know, the one you love to cite when it suits you and criticize when not. I do know for sure that Skrine is in the red there as well as Gipson, who has been on their weekly All-Bad team a lot lately. They also have Ward as the best SS, by far. They do a lot of those situational stats. yds per route or target for WR, yds against per target for DBs etc https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/12/17/32-observations-week-15-2/Cleveland Browns: Safety T.J. Ward leads all safeties in run stops at 28, while the next most is 21. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/12/16/pff-team-of-week-15-2/Safeties: T.J. Ward, CLE (+4.6) and Chris Clemons, MIA (+1.7) A quiet week for the free safeties but a number of impressive performances from their strong safety counterparts. Clemons had himself a solid day while the ever-excellent Ward made his customary number of big plays.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Legend
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This is about Skrine. Please post the yearly stats for both Skrine and Haden.
Thanks.
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Talking of those stats, some free info: That was before the JAX game: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/11/29/3tfo-jaguars-browns-week-13/Joe Haden is likely to follow Shorts around the field on Sunday and his season has been impressive as he ranks fifth in the league for cornerbacks in Yards per Cover Snap, allowing just 0.83 Y/CS, despite being targeted on average once every 6.4 snapsBefore the NE-game: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/12/06/3tfo-browns-patriots-week-14/Gordon is second among receivers with 2.80 Yards per Route Run; only Calvin Johnson (2.85) has a higher mark. Gordon’s production is even more impressive given the lack of talent at quarterback in Cleveland. Between Brandon Weeden (-6.8) and Jason Campbell (-9.3), the Browns have one of the NFL’s most inept passing offenses. Nonetheless, Gordon is an elite talent that is capable of making plays at every level, and will most likely be the focus of New England’s gameplan this week. + Though it has been another tough season in Cleveland, the team’s run defense has been among the league’s best. The unit ranks fifth in rushing yards allowed, and yields just 3.5 yards per carry. The group ranks eighth in our run defense grading, and has an excellent defensive line. Defensive ends Ahtyba Rubin (+14.5) and John Hughes (+13.5) rank seventh and ninth, respectively in run defense among 3-4 defensive ends. Safety T.J. Ward leads all safeties with a +9.9 run defense grade, and lines up in the box on more than 60% of his snaps. Before the Steelers-game: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/11/22/3tfo-steelers-browns-week-12-2/Tasked with trying to slow Brown down will likely be Joe Haden (+7.8), given that he has shadowed receivers at points this year, including Torrey Smith in both games against the Ravens, and A.J. Green against the Bengals. He comes into this week off the back of two of his best three performances of the year, allowing just three receptions for 21 yards with three interceptions and a pass breakup in Weeks 9 and 11. Opposite him, Buster Skrine (-3.8) has shown flashes, breaking up 11 passes so far this year which is second among all cornerbacks. But he’s also had his struggles, allowing a reception of 20 yards or more in four of 10 games.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I can't find the number of completions or targets for the year. However, I did find that thus far, both Haden and Skrine have been credited w/34 successful plays and that Skrine has 19 passes defended and Haden has 18. That information can be found here: http://www.advancednflstats.com/2010/08/glossary.html Btw----------that site had Haden ranked 11th overall and Skrine 17th. Their stats seemed pretty complicated, but I thought that the number of passes successfully defended was pretty clear cut. I really wish I could find the number of completions allowed and the number of times each has been targeted. I really don't want any sites interpretation. I just want to see the data. Let's see if it jibes w/DJ's analysis of how bad Skrine is.
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I am finding it hard to believe that more people haven't noticed how well Skrine has played this year.
His improvement this season is notable. Although he gives away a lot in height, he usually provides very tight coverage. I like him; he is a keeper... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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There's going to be a LOT of talented CBs in free agency. I can see the Patriots letting Aqib Talib walk because of his injuries. I can see Seattle letting Brandon Browner and Walter Thurmond go because of his issues and Seattle having capable replacements. Verner from Tennessee. Captain Munnerlyn from Carolina. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and Chris Harris from Denver.
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Legend
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I am finding it hard to believe that more people haven't noticed how well Skrine has played this year.
His improvement this season is notable. Although he gives away a lot in height, he usually provides very tight coverage. I like him; he is a keeper...
skrine has played well this year.
the problem is we have to bring you to reality when you say that skrine is better than haden.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Dawg Talker
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I am finding it hard to believe that more people haven't noticed how well Skrine has played this year.
His improvement this season is notable. Although he gives away a lot in height, he usually provides very tight coverage. I like him; he is a keeper...
It's catch 22. Bigger CB's have trouble defending against speed. Smaller CB's have trouble against bigger receivers. Only man can do both...Revis. I haven't seen a Revis clone in a long long time!
In the end, give me speed. At least with speed, QB's have to be very accurate throwing over. With big CB's, they never get faster.
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I am finding it hard to believe that more people haven't noticed how well Skrine has played this year.
His improvement this season is notable. Although he gives away a lot in height, he usually provides very tight coverage. I like him; he is a keeper...
skrine has played well this year.
the problem is we have to bring you to reality when you say that skrine is better than haden.
Where did I infer that, Swish? I also like the way both of them fight hard for the ball...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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~ Legend
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I am finding it hard to believe that more people haven't noticed how well Skrine has played this year.
His improvement this season is notable. Although he gives away a lot in height, he usually provides very tight coverage. I like him; he is a keeper...
It's catch 22. Bigger CB's have trouble defending against speed. Smaller CB's have trouble against bigger receivers. Only man can do both...Revis. I haven't seen a Revis clone in a long long time!
You're thinking of Sherman considering Revis isn't really tall by any standards. Haden and Revis are the same size to put it in perspective.
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You're thinking of Sherman considering Revis isn't really tall by any standards. Haden and Revis are the same size to put it in perspective.
Good point but I really meant Revis can do it all. Personally, I think you can beat Sherman with speed. I am not saying easily.
NFL network had a good debate which is better Revis or Sherman. I like Revis over Sherman, but I take either one.
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