DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum what happened to the coaching?

Biggest difference between Carolina and us ...QB.

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It might be time to blow up this roster. You don't win w/losers---no matter how talented they are.

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You don't win throwing 40 times a game in Cleveland in December either.... roster had nothing to do with that....

No one put a gun to their head and said "be pass happy". No one forced them to sign a 32 year old dinosaur and pin all their hopes for a running game on Mcslowly.

And where the hell is Jimmy? I thought he was going to be a "hands on" owner.... He's been around about as much as Junior. Maybe less.

JC

My eyes must be playing tricks on me. I'm pretty sure I read posters above that prefer Shurmer over the lot we have now, but there's no way someone would actually say that without purple font... right?

Let's get one thing out of the way. A Shurmer-coached team is a dumpster fire. I know this season has been disappointing, but it's still better than last season. This season we give up games in the 4th quarter, last year the game would be over by the half. Week in and week out. The offense has been disappointing this season, but the offense was the laughingstock of the league last year.

When we wrap up this season, the coaches will have quite a bit to consider as far as improvement. I'm definitely not saying they're perfect. Norv needs to run the ball more. Hopefully he'll do that when we actually have a running game next season. Horton needs to figure out how he can get to the QB more consistently. That is why we brought him in here.

The Browns FO threw away the running game and gave Norv the go ahead to toss it out altogether.

just joining the conversation here...


Towards our coaching...it's hard to pinpoint where the fault lies the most. It's crazy the amount of 3rd and 6+ first downs we give up. A good defense doesnt let that happen. If you havent noticed, when we dont blitz our corners...our blitzing SUCKS. Too often we go 4 down lineman, two of which are our usual OLBs and just rush. Then we drop 7 in coverage because early in the year we got killed in the short passing game, and teams are still using that. What that has done has sucked our pass D up near the LOS and now teams are beating it on longer drops and longer routes, we havent yet adjusted properly. There's two ways to do that though...blitz harder, which we dont get home on, or drop into coverage and try to survive.
We have adjusted, we bring TJ up as a LB and have Posey and Poyer playing safety. The issue is that it hasnt helped because we are covering for too long and guys get open, or guys drop coverage to other guys that arent there and ready. We are working with a lot of new parts...as we continue to build a roster we are happy with. Adding Poyer and Posey and Eubanks, and Baker, and Whittaker (Who has struggled of late), and so on have made things difficult on the coaching staff. How do you add to a defense, when you have so many guys that you have to keep things basic for? I would hope we'd play more man to man, and make it more about individual battles, but we dont do a good job, so we cover in basic zones, and it hasnt worked out for us on 3rd and long. Defensively it comes in spurts.

Im happy because this defense has forced more turnovers this year than in the last 4 combined. When I say forced I mean force...we created turnovers this year. Something we havent done in the past. We've gotten turnovers in the past, but we're forcing them this year. That's a plus. If we got off the field on 3rd down our defense would be beyond dominant. We need a better ILB...let DQ just be a tackle machine, but next to him, we need a thumper...a guy that plays like Burfict has this year, and Porter and Harrison have done before. We dont need a Ray Lewis, just someone that covers a lot of ground and hits hard...and has good instincts. We dont have that in our cover guys...and we just need one in the middle of the field.

FS I still think is in great hands with Gipson. He is rarely out of position...he just doesnt always make the play. And he is in his 2nd year...look at the progress Skrine made from 2nd to 3rd...you'll see that in Gipson. Mark it down.


As for the offense...I think we run often enough for the success that we get out of it. That being said...we dont mix it in well enough. Too many drives we go 3 straight passes that arent good. And that partly goes on being unsuccessful with the pass game. If our QBs hit on a couple of the pass plays we'd have you'd see more run plays mixed in. But we dont beat them with that threat yet. Our pass game still hasnt opened the running game well enough to help us. We havent done it since 07. Campbell hasnt helped that in how often he checks down...but is that his fault? I dont think so...Gordon is our only deep threat, and he is still learning how to be a pro...he doesnt always get open, and I dont know if Campbell trusts him enough yet to throw it when he isnt completely open...Weeden certainly does...thats the ONLY thing he does well.

There are a lot of issues on this team that stem from the players. Our coaches are still learning how to effectively use the guys we have to the best of their ability and are still changing the mind set.

Think...if your entire professional life was built on the conservative nature that was built under Shurmur, and Mangini...how difficult would it be to learn to play aggressive and to take chances. Campbell is the same way in the places he's been. Take care of it, dont make a mistake...that mentality has lead to what you see now.
Its VERY difficult, to get guys to take chances that dont know how to. Some guys pick it up (Gipson, Haden, Ward (who i think is a better cover corner than youd imagine...i rarely see a blown coverage or catch made with him on a guy...including TEs NOT killing us this year, save for some of Gronk...but thats Gronk, its what he does), and Skrine (some) have picked it up well) but our LBs havent, our DL can only do so much...

If we want to evaluate the coaching staff...Lets see what happens this offseason...When we have a consistent set of guys, get a core that OUR staff likes, not just what we thought as fans would be good...and see what we do.

We're not able to make BIG changes now that will make us great. We have talent to get leads, but when it comes to adjusting and getting the right guys to the right places...thats tough. And I see changes throughout the games, and between games...but the success isnt showing. We need the guys to adapt and play better. We need better football players.

It'll start at RG, WR (2 and 3), ILB, OLB (one more...Groves was good), 2nd CB (Skrine is good, but we need a bigger guy there...Skrine as a 3rd would be SWEET), and obviously QB...but I think Hoyer (and Campbell) can be there guy and that 1/2 combo.

I see competence from this staff...for the first time in years we actually look NFL. We didnt under Crennel...too many times we'd come out and play HORRIBLE, and we didnt under Mangini, and we didnt under Shurmur. Which is sad, because I had hopes, and held on to those hopes for those guys for a long time...but with Chud...we look NFL. We dont look like good NFL yet, but we look like NFL.

We've been in every game except Pittsburgh. We've had a chance to win in every game except Pittsburgh and 2nd half game 2 Cincy, and GB...
Good coaching to me...gets trumped when mediocre to bad players cant put it all together. Look at all of our losses...good for a while, bad for a stretch...and that bad stretch kills you.

4th Q Chicago
2nd quarter Cincy game 2
1st-into 2nd Quarter KC
last 4 mins NE
late game Jags
2nd half 1st Baltimore game
3rd Quarter into 4th Minnesota
Lions game...I forgot when the collapse hit, but it was a quick stretch
1st Quarter Buffalo


There's a stretch every game where we fall apart...thats less on coaching than it is on players. You can preach belief, you can tell them you believe and do and say anything...its on the bodies that are playing to actually do it.

I see too often with this team...that "here we do again" body language...and its starting to leak into the staff...I see it, but as a coach, its hard not to, because it is SUCH A DIFFICULT thing to break out of. It's very very difficult to take that...oh boy mentality out of a team. Only way to do it is by making a good play to bring us out of it...and Hoyer is the only QB we've had thats done it. Campbell does...but too infrequently. Gordon does it...but too infrequently. Our RBs dont do it...though Baker played very well for us.


I dont feel the coaching is the problem. We are in every game...and that's because of the staff. With Mangini and Shurmur, it was too often, keep it within striking distance...that's not what we do now...its lets go get a lead and protect it, or go make it bigger...but then we dont do that 2nd part. For a rookie coach...its tough. Give it time. Next year, we should see improvement in what we have here, because it will have been here...we will have had time to mold their styles with what we want...and get more out of them...as well as add the pieces WE want here. A good player can only get so far...and its OKAY if a good player, doesnt fit what you want. Gotta find what you want, and make it work right for you. If we dont do that going into next year...then we have a coaching issue.

Are you really trying to tell me that you didn't pimp Huff over and over and over?

You say I am Mr. Agenda, but I present both sides. All you do is bash the FO.

Where have I ever said that Gipson is better than Ward? Never said it. I have said that Gipson was taking too much heat and Ward was overrated. I'll stand by those comments.

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I think too many are reading too much in this - Vers man...come on reading his actions and face expressions.

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If I had a dollar for every time you have pooh-poohed my evaluations over the years, I would be a rich man.

You would think that you would at least respect them by now? I am not saying to agree, but at least respect where I am coming from. Timid, Big Money, Butch, Faine, Collins, Leon, Big Baby, Brady, Holmgren, TRich, Weeden, etc. You made fun on me over and over and over on each and every one of those guys and yet, you don't even take a minute to contemplate what it is that I am saying.

Have a nice one............

Which part of me acknowledging that I had him as a backup plain to Rhodes didn't you comprehend? He failed, I admitted that much, but I also wanted Rhodes over him and my point was that I wanted an ILB, FS and no2 CB, exactly the positions we still need today, plenty of proof for that, I thought the list I provided and my post overall was clear enough, but you obviously lack some kind of other "fortitude".

Both sides? Good one. As always you simply elect to "forget" that I applauded many of this regimes moves too, but somehow that doesn't seem to suit your obvious agenda and/or crusade on me. And every time I remember you about this, you do not respond or post the same accusation a day later. This is quite ignorant at best.

You're not only Mr Agenda, you also Mr Double standard. You were all over Haden since day one, grading him being ok to good but expecting more from a top 10 pick, but it's ok for Mingo to be a part time player who struggles on every 2nd play. Yeah, you're not only presenting from "both sides" you're also talking out of them, lol

As for Gipson/Ward, you asked, you shall receive. Your words:

I quote you from Nov 28th from the thread "The defense":

"I actually think that Gipson is playing quite a bit better than Ward, yet people rag on him. "

From the same thread:

"It is Ward--not Gipson--w/the terrible instincts."

I guess your last resort answer will be your epically lame "wow"

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I quote you from Nov 28th from the thread "The defense":

"I actually think that Gipson is playing quite a bit better than Ward, yet people rag on him. "

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Okay. I apologize.

I really don't think Gipson is better than Ward, but I really do think his instincts and coverage is better than Ward's.

I like Gipson.. I don't think he mistimed his jump, I think he underestimated the depth of the throw, he had time to back up a step and knock the ball down, he just misjudged it... a lot like Rahim Moore did in the Broncos/Ravens playoff game last year.

As far as body language and facial expressions, I hate to keep going back to this example, but a lot of people thought Cam Newton was sulking and whining because he would sit on the bench with a towel over his head.. now they are winning and.. VOILA, it's not a problem any more.. he still does it, it's just not a problem any more.

We're losing.. again.. so people are looking for every small detail and I think this falls into that category.. it's a non-issue if you ask me.

Awesome post, KingSteve. I didn't want it to go unnoticed among some of the other stuff hitting the fan.

I agree with you DC. When things are going well, nobody is looking at everyone under a microscope. Once people start to do that, you can come up with all sorts of things you feel may be a problem.

I just haven't seen anything that shows this is a problem. I also think people need to consider, if you had only won 4 games all year your body language may not be in its best form either.

JMHO

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There's a stretch every game where we fall apart...thats less on coaching than it is on players.

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Good post King and I do believe that losing becomes a habit and you start to get that deer in the headlights look when things don't go well.. Most teams rely on their QB to go make a play when that happens and this has been our biggest weakness for decades... Josh Cribbs actually was that guy for a few years that seemed to be able to go out and make a big return play for us once in a while but you can't rely on your returner to be the guy to change the tide of a game.. It's usually the QB on offense or the best pass rusher on defense.. those are the two guys you look to more than anybody else to go make a play.

Okay guys...........don't even consider it.

Haden is great. No holes in his game or character. He is even going to give us a huge discount to resign w/us because he loves playing here so much.

It's all good.

Now, I have a question for you guys. Should that not turn out be true, will you get upset if I bring it up?

I only got to watch the games on Short Cuts the last two weeks (was flying both days) so I got no sideline shots or anything, just the plays, but man if Haden doesn't just seem fed up with everything in the post-game interviews. Not that he wasn't responsible for big bad plays, or that he was trying to shirk responsibility for big bad plays, but he looks like he's just done being on this Charlie Brown team.

I think if Ward goes, Haden will follow him out the door. Maybe not to the same team, but I wouldn't be surprised that it the two will agree to stay or to move on.

Just how I perceive the situation.

I've considered it, I just don't think it's a problem.. have you considered that maybe it's not a problem?

This is just my opinion, I think Haden really gets himself up for defending the top WRs.. I think that's why he plays them so well because for most of every season, that's really all he has to play for. I think he's a professional who goes out to do his job every week but I think he really relishes those opportunities to play against the WRs that are considered the best. I'm sure being here is tough on him, it would be tough on any competitor.. Football is a grueling game week in and week out and it's a long enough season, it's even longer when the second half of it usually doesn't matter. Like a lot of players, who came from winning programs, it has to absolutely suck to play football for months in frigid conditions, and for what? to make the playoffs? No, that dream ended weeks ago.. for a paycheck? For the love of the game? Hell I don't know what motivates them...

Haden was 35-6 in 3 seasons at Florida, at the rate we're going, he will be in his 8th season here before he gets to 35 wins... we're 16-44 in his almost 4 years here.. yea, it's got to be tough to go through that.

Do I think that he is part of the problem? Absolutely not.

I think it's a fair point to consider, but I think you got caught up in how you brought it up that is causing the backlash.

You basically call him out as being a loser and we need to reboot the whole team and he is the only player you single out here (though you mention it in broader terms) and also mention that you think it means he is out of here next year based on this one game.

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I am beginning to think that we have too many malcontents and losers on this team. We lack high character guys. I am not talking about moral character, I am talking about guys who are football character. Mental toughness, intestinal fortitude, dedication, responsibility for their own actions, do whatever it takes, etc.

Joe Haden made me sick yesterday. He didn't want to be out there. He was so, so cold. I bet he's out of here next year. I think we have too many guys like this.

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It might be time to blow up this roster. You don't win w/losers---no matter how talented they are

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I didn't mean to say to let Haden go. I meant that his own body language and facial expressions, and maybe even that injury told me that he probably won't want to resign w/us.

And if he doesn't, that is fine w/me.

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Underneath the vitrol there are good points. But, you throw out gasoline onto an open flame, then complain when you start a fire.

I agree that we need to start winning if we want players like Ward, Haden, and others to stick around (unless we just overpay them). I agree that Haden has looked terrible for 3 weeks in a row now (by his standards). And, I agree that we need players that are willing to tune everything out and just go out there and play football.

But, again, when you word it the way you did there, you have to expect an equal and opposite reaction back at you.

Pit............reading body language is huge. At least it always was for me when I coached and when I scouted. It was huge when I boxed.

I think he had a defeatist attitude. He is one of our best players. He needs to be a leader. He did not exhibit leadership in my eyes.

We'll see.......but I bet he is outta here when his contract comes up.

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I think if Ward goes, Haden will follow him out the door. Maybe not to the same team, but I wouldn't be surprised that it the two will agree to stay or to move on.

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I think you are spot on in that assessment. Joe recently addressed that he thought the Browns should resign Ward. He even mentioned that they were friends. I hope someone posts the exact quote.

I'm not saying I would blame Haden for wanting to leave. It's cold in Cleveland. He played at Florida. Cleveland is not a hot media market. We lose double digit games every year.

I get all that.........I just don't know if you win w/guys like that.

Now, take him and put him on a team like NE, Baltimore, SF, etc that has a winning culture and he is a great contributor, but we need him to be a leader.

Did any of you guys listen to Dilfer talk about Ray Lewis and how he led Baltimore the other night? It was very telling. It's more than the rah rah stuff. It's about accountability. It's about how a great player is always putting in extra time. How he demands so much of himself and his teammates. You can't possibly let him down. Man, that was great stuff.

This team needs some of that.

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have you considered that maybe it's not a problem?

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Yes, I have. And I could be wrong.

I would simply prefer intelligent debate rather than someone acting like I am crazy for suggesting such a thing.

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Football is a grueling game week in and week out and it's a long enough season, it's even longer when the second half of it usually doesn't matter. Like a lot of players, who came from winning programs, it has to absolutely suck to play football for months in frigid conditions, and for what? to make the playoffs? No, that dream ended weeks ago.. for a paycheck? For the love of the game? Hell I don't know what motivates them...

Haden was 35-6 in 3 seasons at Florida, at the rate we're going, he will be in his 8th season here before he gets to 35 wins... we're 16-44 in his almost 4 years here.. yea, it's got to be tough to go through that.

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I totally agree. Frankly, those reasons helped me draw the conclusion that I did.


Just think about it, DC.

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You basically call him out as being a loser and we need to reboot the whole team and he is the only player you single out here (though you mention it in broader terms) and also mention that you think it means he is out of here next year based on this one game.

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Good point.

I was agitated when I made that post. Someone sent me one of those insider reports and there were complaints from the players in regards to some coaching decisions. I watched that past game and it was pretty obvious to me that the players lost the game, not the coaches.

I am as sick of losing as the rest of you guys. That ticked me off. I was emotional.

I am not saying that Haden is a loser. I didn't even intend to do that. However, I see the quote you posted and I completely understand why everyone took it that way. I was just going from one thought to another.

I don't think Joe is a loser. I apologize if that is how it came across.

However, I do think Joe should be one of our leaders and I question his leadership skills. I am not seeing it.

I really, really think this team needs some players [that are good, such as Joe] to be role models and leaders for the rest of the team. We need guys to set the bar high. We need accountability. We need to play every play like it's your last play. We need to play w/integrity and w/pride.

They gotta do more walkin' and less talkin.'

Yeah man.........

I really think the constant losing is a big reason why we are at each others' throats so much.

I wonder if we will know how to act if we ever start winning?

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and i'll ask this question again since you ignored it from the other poster: why is it that you always target haden, always saying he is good but he's overrated because u expect more out of a #7 pick, and you been doing that since he got drafted by us, but you give mingo, taken #6 as a project, a pass and defend him like he was thomas?

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It's pretty simple, Swish. Most people have been saying that Haden is a top 3 corner for years. On the other hand, most people are saying how bad Mingo is and some are calling him a bust.

Neither is true.

Switch the names and I would be defending Haden and critiquing Mingo.

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I'm not certain that we even know how to start feeling good and confident about this team if they start to win on a regular basis.

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Yeah, some of us---me included---would be waiting for the other shoe to drop. We would be afraid to get totally jacked. LOL.........how sad is that?

Think back to earlier this year. I was getting pumped when we won 2 in a row w/Hoyer. I was so excited for the game to start. All week long I was anticipating an exciting game.

What happens? Hoyer gets hurt and I curse myself for being so stupid to believe again.

One thing about it, Daman............we've paid our dues.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...34-ac74babf68a0

Browns Daily Wrap: 4th-Q breakdowns
Posted Dec 16, 2013

Clevelandbrowns.com
@Browns Facebook



On Monday’s edition of “Cleveland Browns Daily, Driven by Liberty Ford,” co-hosts Vic Carucci and Nathan Zegura expressed their concerns with the defense, which has been the Browns’ main focus and investment since the offseason. Mary Kay Cabot, from Cleveland.com, and Tom Withers, from the Associated Press, joined Vic and Nathan for a Roundtable discussion about why the Browns cannot maintain a fourth-quarter lead.

Je’Rod Cherry wrapped up the show with Vic and Nathan as he addressed the mental and physical conditioning that seems to be lacking in all areas of the team.
Here are some highlights:

Vic Carucci: “When you make a commitment in the offseason to your defense, that has to be the thing that wins you games, that allows you to compete in games consistently, and at times it has been, but not enough. We are seeing a troubling trend that speaks to the inability to close out. I can’t leave the offense out of this conversation, but I don’t buy that it’s a lack of maturity in these guys. At this point in the season, your young players are not young anymore. Being good enough to say you are competitive with divisional leaders, there’s no solace in that anymore. The fact that they are “kind of good,” but not winning almost makes it harder. I guess I’m at a point where more of my thoughts are directed towards 2014 and beyond.”


Nathan Zegura: “The one thing that I am starting to get a little nervous about is that all the investments have been on the defensive side of the ball and it’s been the defense that hasn’t been able to get the job done at the end of games.If you go back and look at the losses, there are maybe only two games where you actually felt that the Browns did not have a chance to win. Other than that, this is a team that has been good enough to keep the game close, but not good enough to win. A team like Chicago has three guys on offense (Alshon Jeffery, Brandon Marshall, and Matt Forte) that they can count on at any moment to make a big play. And that’s not counting the quarterback. The Browns have Josh Gordon, that’s it. When you get down to the nitty-gritty, you need to have multiple guys who you can reasonably count on in big situations. The pressure is on this offseason to acquire those big talents. This has to be a homerun offseason.”



Mary Kay Cabot: “As far as not being able to finish games, you have to attribute that to the defensive breakdowns. No matter what you say about this team, you can’t deny that they have given up long drives, short drives, touchdowns; that’s unacceptable. When I watch the highlights of the Patriots, Tom Brady is only as good as the guys who make the plays for him. You have to have guys who will go up and run the right routes and make the right plays. The Browns need to go out and find at least two really good weapons for the next quarterback. They can turn things around in one year, but only if they do things right. Some of the holes will be filled when guys come back from injuries, but without a doubt, they have to get a receiver, a running back, and maybe a good defensive back.”



Tom Withers: “The Browns have not been able to stop teams when they absolutely need to do so and that is the bottom line. We were told the investment would be an aggressive, attacking defensive style of play. We’ve seen pieces of that, but not for the full 60 minutes. There are far too many times when the quarterback has plenty of time to throw the ball and make the big plays on our defense. All season long we’ve talked about the lack of playmakers, but when you have a guy like Gordon who has been breaking record after record, how is it that they are not throwing the ball to him? ...The thing that is scary to me is that the deeper we go into the season, the more holes this team seems to have. There’s been an ‘oh my gosh’ moment for every regime that comes to Cleveland, but I think they are starting to realize that there is a lot more that needs to be fixed.”


Je'Rod Cherry: “I’ve come to the point where I realize that these guys are simply not tough enough. They have poor conditioning and no mental toughness whatsoever to sustain the ability that is needed to win a football game. In a game where your body is telling you to quit, especially when it is cold outside and you know there is not much to play for, that’s when you have to put those demons to sleep and come out and play. They have to have the ability to mentality go beyond that outside noise and tell themselves that it does matter. They need to add those players who can take the team to the next step and not make those same mistakes over and over again. I think they should use these last two games to get over that mental hurdle and to show this organization that they deserve to be here next year.”

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Je'Rod Cherry: “I’ve come to the point where I realize that these guys are simply not tough enough. They have poor conditioning and no mental toughness whatsoever to sustain the ability that is needed to win a football game. In a game where your body is telling you to quit, especially when it is cold outside and you know there is not much to play for, that’s when you have to put those demons to sleep and come out and play. They have to have the ability to mentality go beyond that outside noise and tell themselves that it does matter. They need to add those players who can take the team to the next step and not make those same mistakes over and over again. I think they should use these last two games to get over that mental hurdle and to show this organization that they deserve to be here next year.”

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Agree w/this and it backs up my point that Heckert drafted a lot of talented, but mentally weak players.

Maybe...

....but you know it's bad when Vic Carucci, a paid cheerwriter, is taking shots at your offseason decisions.

The consensus in those opinions is that it is incredibly disappointing to go all out on pass rush in the offseason, just to lose multiple 4th Qtr leads because you don't have exactly that to "close it out".

That proves my suspicion that this consensus laid out a good plan but lacks the evaluation skills to execute it.

The ramblings of the media guys is "proof" that this FO doesn't have the ability to evaluate talent?

Seriously?

Btw.....I was just messing around w/the Heckert comment. Come on, man. It's been one year and you have already determined that this FO can't evaluate talent?

Why don't you ever mention the TRich trade?
The Hoyer signing?
The Bryant signing?

Are you really being objective?

No, it's not a "determination", it's a suspicion at this point. I don't want anyone fired, but my trust-level is low.

I liked those signings, but they're not getting the job done they were brought in for. Right now, we're paying their big, all eggs in one pass rush basket comittment, around 2mil per Sack, that's simply bad.

TRich was a great trade, no doubt. Like you, I never liked the pick. Problem is, it's only "virtual" value right now and they've botched every attempt to find an acceptable RB so far. Maybe Baker, but too little too late. There were much better runners than McGahee out there, but they continued to trot him out there

It's year one. It was an evaluative year, like it or not.

At least they gave some guys [like Weeds] a shot, rather than just blowing it all up.

Look at it this way.........yes, one can say that they should have dumped Weeden and others earlier, but on the other hand, guys like Gordon, Cameron, Skrine, and Gipson proved to be good to decent players.

I don't mind that you criticize the FO, Dj. My problem is that it seems that is all that you do. Just try being a bit more objective rather than so hateful. I do think you have a lot to offer in terms of football knowledge, but this mission of yours.........it kinda ruins things.

Any objective analysis of this team would suggest that a QB is needed.

Everything else is icing on the cake.

We can talk about upgrades, but it is silly to think that the Browns will go anywhere without a QB.

Find the QB, and the team will be better.

Like Memphis, I just wanted to say that was a great post, KingSteve. I agree with everything you wrote.