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More clueless than bringing in Seneca and Jake?
I actually had no probs with either of those signings ... I thought Jake was a bum but we HAD NO OTHER REAL GOOD CHOICES ...
just like I didn't like the Campbell signing this year .. but once again I was OK with it cause of the OTHER OPTIONS AVAILABLE ..
AND vers .. u may not want to go here with me .. cause this group in one off season has not exactly stepped up to the plate and hit many homers with there acquisitions so far ..
Hoyer and Campbell were better signings than Jake and Seneca. Jake had suffered an injury and was a shell of his former self. Seneca was a selfish player who was a terrible teammate. We had zero of chance of winning w/either of those two bums.
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More clueless than keeping Mangini for one year and giving him nothing on offense and then firing him the next year?
THIS WAS A NO BRAINER ... if I was mad at the walrus for this one .. it would have been because he didn't FIRE HIM SOON ENOUGH .
That is part of my point. Why not fire him if you didn't believe in him? And if you do keep him, why the heck would you not provide him w/some offensive weapons and then turn around and criticize the offense during the year and then hold a PC where you say you woke up this morning and decided to fire him. WHAT? Bro...........that was complete BS and he lied about it.
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More clueless than making an occasional appearance at TC while sitting in a golf cart and smoking cigarettes?
*LOL* .. ya .. that's pretty relevant ...
It's relevant because it is evidence of his lack of his egotistical and unprofessional attitude. No one got on him for stuff like that, but you guys slam the current guys for what?
And bro...............firing Chud was really not that big of a deal. The team regressed under him. They quit. He won 4 freaking games. Worse than Shurmur w/more talent on his roster. He lost 10 out of his last 11.
And you're acting like firing him was the worst move in the world? I won't be joining the lynch mob, bro. At least, not yet.
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in my eyes .. THESE GUYS WILL STAND ON THERE OWN ... cause what the walrus or anyone else did ... HAS NO BEARING ON WHAT THESE GUYS DO
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I don't know man.
Why didn't the league know? Isn't there some responsibilty for teams to report to the league player infractions? I'd bet there is.
Even if all you say is correct, and it might be, I still belive in ethics. We don't know who approched who about Bess, but I don't think the type of checks you seek are common. I think most GM's stick to League reports.
I admit, I could be wrong......but don't think so unless I see something contrary.
As I said, if we hired PI, we might have found out. I don't think that is standard procedure, and why Miami isn't looking good around the league. What I am saying is I don't think this info surfaced with a simple background check.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I thought that the league had to be notified any time a player was arrested. Trades have to go through the NFL office, so I wonder how this could be missed.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I thought that the league had to be notified any time a player was arrested. Trades have to go through the NFL office, so I wonder how this could be missed.
I agree. That's my point. If the league report is clean, why go beyond that?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I thought that the league had to be notified any time a player was arrested. Trades have to go through the NFL office, so I wonder how this could be missed.
From what I read, he was not arrested - family members asked Sheriff's deputies to take him to a mental institution. Usually that means that when the police show up (probably with a family member) the person agreed to go. As long as he agrees to go, it's not an arrest.
~Lyuokdea
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I thought that the league had to be notified any time a player was arrested. Trades have to go through the NFL office, so I wonder how this could be missed.
From what I read, he was not arrested - family members asked Sheriff's deputies to take him to a mental institution. Usually that means that when the police show up (probably with a family member) the person agreed to go. As long as he agrees to go, it's not an arrest.
I also agree with that. Custody and Arrest are two different things.
Yet, some somehow expect Lonbardi to jump through hoops and barrels to find out this information.
No arrest records and no League records. WTF??
Come on. Be reasonable. Do we expect the team to hire a PI to look through all the deepest records of a player every time we think of drafting or trading for a player?
Heck no. This is why Ireland was canned and the Miami owner offered a cautiously worded apology....he knows his former employee broke a trust between Gentlemen.....and that still means something.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I thought that the league had to be notified any time a player was arrested. Trades have to go through the NFL office, so I wonder how this could be missed.
From what I read, he was not arrested - family members asked Sheriff's deputies to take him to a mental institution. Usually that means that when the police show up (probably with a family member) the person agreed to go. As long as he agrees to go, it's not an arrest.
Bess's family had him hospitalized against his will though. He did not agree to go.
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Browns plan to void Bess guarantee Posted by Mike Florio on February 13, 2014, 8:01 PM EST After trading last year with the Dolphins for receiver Davone Bess, the Browns gave Bess a new contract. It included $3.067 million in guaranteed base salary for 2014. Per a league source, the team plans to take the position that the guarantee has voided. While the salary is guaranteed for skill, injury, or cap, Bess landed last season on the non-football illness list. While the Browns exercised their discretion to pay his salary for the rest of 2013, the team believes (we’re told) that the guarantees evaporated as a result of his inability to play in 2013. Bess would have the right to challenge the voiding of his guarantee, and the final determination will hinge on the language of the contract between Bess and the Dolphins. Under Article 4, Section 9(g) of the labor deal, teams and players may negotiate the circumstances under which future salary guarantees will void. During his introductory press conference, new G.M. Ray Farmer didn’t specify the team’s plans for Bess. “We are in communication,” Farmer said. “I can’t comment too much about where the circumstance is. Just understand that we are concerned for Davone, and I think that’s the biggest thing, is to make sure that he gets the help that he needs. . . . The biggest thing is that Davone’s care and his concern is our biggest thing right now. The dates are inconsequential. Moving forward, we’ll make the decision that we need to make for our franchise, as well as making sure that he’s going to get the care and the things that he needs in the process.” If Bess can’t play, and if his inability to play is unrelated to an injury, there’s no reason for the Browns to pay him. But voiding the guarantee doesn’t mean he’ll be cut; there’s a chance the Browns will give him time to recover, and an opportunity to earn his non-guaranteed salary.
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Meltdown Bess doesn't deserve that money...
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always a fine balance here between getting your money back, and making other FAs worry about whether your team will honor their commitments.
Really depends on the popular perception of bess around the league.
~Lyuokdea
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Browns plan to void Bess guarantee
Posted by Mike Florio on February 13, 2014, 8:01 PM EST
After trading last year with the Dolphins for receiver Davone Bess, the Browns gave Bess a new contract. It included $3.067 million in guaranteed base salary for 2014.
Per a league source, the team plans to take the position that the guarantee has voided.
While the salary is guaranteed for skill, injury, or cap, Bess landed last season on the non-football illness list. While the Browns exercised their discretion to pay his salary for the rest of 2013, the team believes (we’re told) that the guarantees evaporated as a result of his inability to play in 2013.
Bess would have the right to challenge the voiding of his guarantee, and the final determination will hinge on the language of the contract between Bess and the Dolphins. Under Article 4, Section 9(g) of the labor deal, teams and players may negotiate the circumstances under which future salary guarantees will void.
During his introductory press conference, new G.M. Ray Farmer didn’t specify the team’s plans for Bess.
“We are in communication,” Farmer said. “I can’t comment too much about where the circumstance is. Just understand that we are concerned for Davone, and I think that’s the biggest thing, is to make sure that he gets the help that he needs. . . . The biggest thing is that Davone’s care and his concern is our biggest thing right now. The dates are inconsequential. Moving forward, we’ll make the decision that we need to make for our franchise, as well as making sure that he’s going to get the care and the things that he needs in the process.”
If Bess can’t play, and if his inability to play is unrelated to an injury, there’s no reason for the Browns to pay him. But voiding the guarantee doesn’t mean he’ll be cut; there’s a chance the Browns will give him time to recover, and an opportunity to earn his non-guaranteed salary.
I didn't know a football contract could be voided like that. First time hearing it and I'm gettin' up there in age. You know if there is one person who can get some or all of his money back, it's Jimmy Haslam!!! 
P.S. Might I just add Bess is a complete screw-up. He was REALLY good before he started partying his life away.... He may very well never get this chance to play again for the NFL.
If I'm an NFL team and still want him I'd offer him a contract with random drug testing, perhaps even several times per week, including alcohol. If he can't fly straight, he gets nothing but a large fine and kicked off the team.... I guess it all matters what his age is now and just how good he was before this all hit the fan. Regardless: Hasta la vista, baby!
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We did it to Winslow after the motorcycle wreck -- though we put provisions in which would allow him to earn all the money back in performance incentives.
~Lyuokdea
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We did it to Winslow after the motorcycle wreck -- though we put provisions in which would allow him to earn all the money back in performance incentives.
He was an obvious loud-mouth egomaniac - but he had a great set of hands.
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But he loved to use them while sitting in his car 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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We did it to Winslow after the motorcycle wreck -- though we put provisions in which would allow him to earn all the money back in performance incentives.
He was an obvious loud-mouth egomaniac - but he had a great set of hands.
But is he master of his domain? 
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Didn't know exactly where toy put this but because Bess is a part of this (as is Des Bryant) I'll leave it here. It's an interesting article. ----- Browns' Non-Football Injury Designations Lead to More Cap Space; Looking to Void Bess' Guaranteed Money? This past Sunday, we reported that the Cleveland Browns were estimated to have around $45.46 million in cap space heading into the 2014 offseason. That number could be jumping to around $46 million, though, based on several players being placed on the Non-Football Injury (NFI) list during the 2013 season. When a player is placed on injured reserve or PUP list, their salary is paid in full. The NFI list is different, though -- teams have the option to pay a player's salary in full, not at all, or a partial amount. Our original cap estimation had to assume that the players would be paid in full, even though it was more realistic that the players would be paid partial amounts of their salaries. It is typically impossible to guess those partial amounts, which is why we temporarily roll with the "full" amount. Fortunately for us, salary cap specialist Brian McIntyre tweeted out some Browns-relevant tweets on Thursday: Why is it fair to not pay a player on the NFI list? If a team feels the player did something on their own accord (i.e. Bess), got injured outside of football, or had a condition unrelated to football (i.e. Bryant), the team feels like the player can't live up to their contract due to something unrelated to football. Based on the information provided by McIntyre, I created a table that outlined how much money I believe the Browns saved on each player during the 2013 season: Nfi-data_medium Here is a quick explanation of each of the columns above: Base Salary: The player's base salary to begin the season over a 17-week season. Salary/Week: The base salary divided by 17 weeks. NFI Weeks: The number of weeks the player spent on the NFI list. Pay Rate: The percentage of the salary/week that the Browns decided to pay while the player was on the NFL list. For example, 75% means the Browns paid that player 3/4 of their normal salary/week amount. Paid Per Week: The dollar amount translation when the reduced pay rate is applied. New Base Salary: With the changes in place, we use this figure as our own personal label called, "new base salary" -- a more technical term might be something like "adjusted base salary." Cap Savings: How much money the Browns saved by placing the player on the NFI list vs. if they had been on the roster or IR. Teams can use discretion when paying these amounts. Bryant was paid the highest percentage of the players -- 75% -- after he had a heart condition. Although this wasn't a football injury, it's the type of thing in which Bryant didn't do something intentional (like go out and play basketball) to screw the team over. Bess was given a much lesser pay rate, albeit for a short period of time, and we all know the circumstances surrounding him. For those trying to do math on Johnson's calculations, his was a little awkward because unlike the first two players, he was not on the Browns all season. He was with the Packers' practice squad for five weeks, where he made $6,000 per week (for a total of $30,000). He was on the Browns' roster for three weeks, due to the rule about claiming a player off of a practice squad (you must keep them on the roster for three weeks, even if they are hurt). During that time, Johnson made $23,823.53 per week. For the 9 weeks he was on the NFI list, the Browns paid Johnson $58.83 per week. Sounds weird? As McIntyre pointed out in a different tweet, when you take the total amount the Browns paid him, plus what the Packers paid him, the Johnson netted a total of $102,000, which is the equivalent of what a player would make on a practice squad for 17 weeks. The Browns can roll over the combined amount ($547,215.71) into the 2014 salary cap, which is why we projected a boost. OT Chris Faulk was also on the NFI list, but we don't have numbers on what he made, so we didn't include him in the projected savings. --- Speaking of Bess, Pro Football Talk is reporting that the Browns are looking to void his guaranteed salary of $3.067 million for the 2014 season. If the Browns try this, Bess could appeal, but it would seem like Cleveland has leverage since Bess ended last season on the NFI list. Assuming the Browns succeed in their attempt to void the guarantee, keep in mind that this merely means the Browns would have more options, rather than having to outright cut Bess. In other words, Bess could still make $3.067 million in 2014, but it wouldn't be guaranteed -- Cleveland could evaluate Bess closer to training camp time to determine if he's mentally stable enough to continue playing football. Their other option would be to just cut ties with Bess right away, and they wouldn't be on the hook for a dime of Bess' remaining contract. http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2014/2/13/5...-more-cap-space
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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This thread is way to long to look thru... What ever happened to Bess?
Joe Thomas #73
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If you don't know... then that is likely a positive thing. I know I wish I could delete from my mind seeing his bare black butt picture that was unedited in an article I was reading, and that's just one of his "stunts" i'd like to delete from my memory.
In trouble with cops, smoking weed, etc etc. Summarize up into one word = meltdown.
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So he's an exhibitionist is it the social networking that has changed or his problem. Heck I remember in college the fad of streaking was upon us. Lots of videos would have been on Youtube and many many athletes were involved cause we had the bodies...lol 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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So he's an exhibitionist
You'd think he'd have at least exhibited some tendencies to hang onto a ball and run a clean route.
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Dirty move by the Dolphins. They clearly knew about his issue's as we got him IIRC very cheap. Just a shady organization to say the least.
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...the fad of streaking was upon us. Lots of videos would have been on Youtube
Anybody recognize you, eo? (j/k)
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Dirty move by the Dolphins. They clearly knew about his issue's as we got him IIRC very cheap. Just a shady organization to say the least.
Or was it a misstep of the part of our FO? Isn't it their job to investigate and research players before making such trades?
Not trying to absolve the Dolphins here, however I believe the blame goes both ways.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Regarding our FO, signing a guy off of the Packers practice squad not knowing he was recovering from and ACL surgery was a misstep in not doing their research.
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Regarding our FO, signing a guy off of the Packers practice squad not knowing he was recovering from and ACL surgery was a misstep in not doing their research.
How?
You put in a claim on a guy on another team's practice squad. You don't ask permission beforehand. You don't ask to check his medical records beforehand. If you do, the team activates the kid to their roster, and you lose out. Hell, they probably do it anyway if they even get a whiff of another team sniffing around one of their better practice squad guys. Evidently the kid with the ACL had just been injured recently. It was just one of those things that happens.
Now Bess strikes me as dirty dealing by the Dolphins. I don't know how much information a team can get as far as arrest records and such about players on other teams, and/or how long it takes for that information to become available to other teams. The Dolphins knew though ...... and that was a foul deal on their part, no matter what our front office did, or did not do. .
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Arrest records are in the public record.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Regarding our FO, signing a guy off of the Packers practice squad not knowing he was recovering from and ACL surgery was a misstep in not doing their research.
I thought it was a great move whether he played or not last season. I think he will be our surprise player out of camp and will be the #2 opposite of Gordon. He will be 100% healthy for all off season camps. Hell the kid is 6'2" 215lbs runs a 4.38 40. He had 31 td catches his last 2 years in college. Here's an article from last year:
GREEN BAY, Wis. -- The Browns plan to keep and develop former Packers rookie receiver Charles Johnson after he recovers from surgery this week to repair his torn anterior cruciate ligament. Last week, Packers coach Mike McCarthy sounded suspicious about how the whole thing unfolded.
"Charles Johnson, fine young man,'' McCarthy told reporters Friday. "I wish he was still here. Injured during training camp. I’m very curious to see how this all came about. I don’t know if all the facts are in yet. He was obviously under our care and acquired by Cleveland. That’s probably all I should say, he works for the Browns right now.''
The Browns signed Johnson, a seventh-round pick out of Grand Valley State in Michigan, off the Packers squad Oct. 12. A few days later, they discovered in a physical that he had the torn ACL. Johnson had missed practice the previous Wednesday in Green Bay, but returned the following day.
“We didn’t know anything about that (the ACL) so from that standpoint, it was a surprise,'' coach Rob Chudzinski said Friday. "He’s a developing player that has some potential. It’s unfortunate. He’s going to have his surgery next week, and we’ll get him ready and we’ll see where he’s at down the road.”
With all of the injuries at receiver, the Packers were especially disappointed to see Johnson go. A day after the Browns signed him, the Packers lost receiver Randall Cobb and James Jones to knee injuries. Cobb is on injured reserve and Jones is inactive today.
"I think we’re gonna try to get Charles Johnson back from your guys’ team, put him in our system,'' quarterback Aaron Rodgers joked to Browns reporters on a conference call Wednesday. "No, we've got some young guys who are getting a chance here.''
The Browns will retain Johnson's rights for four years. At 6-2, 215, he's got size and speed. He dazzled scouts on his Pro Day last year by clocking a 4.38 in the 40-yard dash.
His last two seasons at Grand Valley State, he had more 1,000 receiving yards each year. He caught 15 TD passes in 2011 and 16 in 2012.
Grand Valley was Johnson's third stop in college. He started out at Eastern Kentucky, but was suspended for what he later told mlive.com was "immature things.'' The Packer Report discovered that Johnson was kicked out of Eastern Kentucky because he and his roommate had a stolen laptop in their dorm room.
He then headed to Antelope Community College in California in 2008, and took a year off in 2009 before beginning at Grand Valley in 2010.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/10/_browns-packers_pre-game_notes.html
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Let me see if I've got this right;
You're saying that,essentially a rookie from Grand Freaken Valley St.is going to win a starting spot next year?
Come to think of it,you maybe correct.He's big,fast and obviously has sticky fingers.
"The Packer Report discovered that Johnson was kicked out of Eastern Kentucky because he and his roommate had a stolen laptop in their dorm room."
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Evidently the kid with the ACL had just been injured recently. It was just one of those things that happens.
I didn't say it was a major guffaw. But you'd think with all the news on the internet alone, plus knowing people who know people the ACL could/should have shown up.
#gmstrong
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Evidently the kid with the ACL had just been injured recently. It was just one of those things that happens.
I didn't say it was a major guffaw. But you'd think with all the news on the internet alone, plus knowing people who know people the ACL could/should have shown up.
What internet news outlets report on taxi squad players having ACL tears?
Again, he was a practice squad player. If you want those guys, you have to be sneaky about it. If the team who has him actually sees something in him, they can't get wind of your interest, or they will bring him up to keep you off of him.
Could they have found out? Maybe. But them not knowing isn't a sign of negligence, IMO.
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Well, we've established that there are two different opinions. I'd call that a good day's work.
#gmstrong
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Well, we've established that there are two different opinions. I'd call that a good day's work.
Do I know you? Have we gotten into debates somewhere down the line?
There has been a certain smarm in your responses to my posts lately. Clever, but laced with a derision that implies history or knowledge.
While your handle seems familiar, I can't recall anything about you for the life of me.
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Evidently the kid with the ACL had just been injured recently. It was just one of those things that happens.
I didn't say it was a major guffaw. But you'd think with all the news on the internet alone, plus knowing people who know people the ACL could/should have shown up.
Yet not one poster had any comment about any ACL injury prior to the Browns releasing the information.Any time there is any kind of information about anyone, somewhere on the internet, this group has been very good over the years at finding it. It escaped all of us. The Packers simply did not release the information, and they did not put the player on IR.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
That's a really great point.
I'd trust this board over our GM anyday.
Sadly.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,871
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,871 |
Quote:
That's a really great point.
I'd trust this board over our GM anyday.
Sadly.
LOL This board is reactionary at the very least. A guy stubbs his toe and the next thing you hear, is, His toe is broken, his hands are too small, he's too short and with a busted toe, he'll now be shorter (and they bring charts and graphs to prove it), his mother dresses him funny and he doesn't eat Chunky soup.
And you want to trust this board more than our GM.. Well, alrighty then
Oh, and did I fail to mention that they got their info from Twitter
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Quote:
Yet not one poster had any comment about any ACL injury prior to the Browns releasing the information.Any time there is any kind of information about anyone, somewhere on the internet, this group has been very good over the years at finding it. It escaped all of us. The Packers simply did not release the information, and they did not put the player on IR.
Well, since I'VE made this such a MAJOR ISSUE and have attributed it to the last FO as a huge black eye on them and claimed that it is likely the main reason they were fired and if it wasn't it should have been and that as a result of this gargantuan failure will never again find work in their respective careers, I guess I'll have to stay up all night doing Google searches, reading the CBA in detail, calling my English major friends for opinions on how to word my scathing review of this horrendous error in judgement on their part in an attempt to get you guys to see it my way so that you bow down to me and call me LORD.
Good God. Drop it.
I think they should have researched it better. You think they couldn't possibly have. What we have here is a disagreement on an issue that is so minor, (a practice squad player), that I'm aghast that you guys keep pushing it.
I'll just save myself some time...
I AM WRONG. THERE IS NO WAY TO HAVE KNOWN DUDE WAS INJURED WHEN WE PLUCKED HIM FROM THE PACKERS PRACTICE SQUAD BECAUSE NO HUMAN IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL, (INCLUDING THIS MESSAGE BOARD WHICH HAS AS IT'S MEMBERSHIP SOME OF THE MOST ACCOMPLISHED SEARCH ENGINE GURUS EVER COLLECTED IN ONE PLACE), HAS EVER BEEN ABLE TO OBTAIN ANY INFORMATION WHATSOEVER ON AN NFL PRACTICE SQUAD PLAYER BECAUSE IT WOULD OTHERWISE CONTRADICT THE LAWS OF PHYSICS AS THEY ARE IN THE NATURAL AND KNOWN UNIVERSE.
I'm wrong! I'm wrong! I'm wrong!
There, can we now drop this insignificant, meaningless, inconsequential, senseless and unimportant disagreement?!
No WAIT! It's not a disagreement at all because I'M WRONG.
I NOW AGREE WITH YOU GUYS.
Oh, I cry out to the God of my forefathers, I must have been out of my mind!
#gmstrong
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Legend
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I certainly did not mean to upset you like that. I am sorry.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
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I'm not upset at all. I just found it funny that for such insignificant disagreement it kept going 'round and 'round even after I'd basically agreed to disagree. Since I found it funny I responded in-kind.
#gmstrong
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,784 |
They call it the silly season for a reason.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Davone Bess On
Reserve/Non-Football Injury (Out
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