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What did he have in his previous game? 1 carry for 0 yards and 1 fumble. Nice.
But yeah.............our guys are the stooges. 
Blind squirrel and a nut until proven otherwise.
None the less, that trade has to become part of the proof.
Indeed. It's like the previous regime had saddled the team with both Richardson and Weeden. Two black marks against them. They get a partial reprieve because of Gordon (if he can stay clean).
The new regime gets a check in their favor for getting something in return (a first rounder, no less) for Richardson.
The verdict is still out on Mingo (and I actually like what I saw from him, for the most part) and under the proper tutelage, I think he will flourish. But, again, the verdict is out. Some might think he's schemed against now and teams are exploiting weaknesses they see in his game.
I'll say that the Kruger and Desmond Bryant hadn't brought the pass rush that they were counted on to bring. Sheard led the team with 5.5 sacks with Mingo right on his heels with 5. Kruger had 4.5 and D. Bryant had only 3.5, all of them within the first 3 games.
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And maybe the squirrel isn't blind at all, but instead, has great foresight that the blind masses can't possibly envision due to their lack of intelligence?
This is what I imagine the stereotype of Banner molded by the media and some posters sounds like when he doesn't have a camera on him.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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What kills me is that many of the same guys killing our FO for firing a coach who went 1 and 10 down the stretch are the same guys who were upset that the guys who drafted TRich, Weeden, and Schwartz in their last draft were fired.
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What kills me is that many of the same guys killing our FO for firing a coach who went 1 and 10 down the stretch are the same guys who were upset that the guys who drafted TRich, Weeden, and Schwartz in their last draft were fired.
I think you'd be hard-pressed (Django excepted) to find someone that didn't feel that the last regime got a raw deal.
With that said, there were a lot of them throwing in the towel about the Browns tanking the season after trading away Richardson and lambasting them for that move. Of course, the team won each of the next 3 games without him. Then, after the QB that replaced Weeden went down, the team won exactly one more game.
I'm sure that the Browns will draft a QB in this draft. I'm not convinced that it'll be in the first round or even the second round. It may not come until the 3rd or 4th round. I know that it's "crazy talk" and/or sacrilege to say it. Many posters here will say so. They'll say, it was a 2 (or 3) game sample. They're right in that observation. What they fail to admit to themselves, the team played inspired when he was out there on the field. The team had 4 wins last season and 3 of them are attributed to him as the starter.
The Browns should anticipate Hoyer's return (in full) from the injury and even if he isn't, they can let either the rookie (or one of the rookies?) start in his stead. With above average play at the QB position, the Browns showed what they can accomplish. No need for a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. Alex Smith would do just fine, thanks.
Don't even get me started on Schwartz. He made me miss having a turnstile at the RT spot.
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And we're talking about regime agendas.
Again.
The point I was trying to make via horrendous metaphor was that if they don't hit on this draft, they're much closer to failure than brilliance. Hard to tell as last year's draft was pitiful what the likelihood of them knocking one out the park is. It was good to see. If we don't walk away with our signal caller for the next decade going into training camp, they failed and we most likely have a serious dud on our hands.
I'm taking a wait and see approach and would guestimate the odds near that of a coin-flip. These guys don't deserve 100% of the scrutiny they're under, but there is plenty of cause for concern that has nothing to do with the umpteenth reference to Holmgren, Heckert, and Schurmer.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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I am fine w/your opinion on things. No problem.
But man, there are too many of these guys around who are doing exactly what I said they are doing. Don't tell me you can't see it.
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The point I was trying to make via horrendous metaphor was that if they don't hit on this draft, they're much closer to failure than brilliance. Hard to tell as last year's draft was pitiful what the likelihood of them knocking one out the park is. It was good to see. If we don't walk away with our signal caller for the next decade going into training camp, they failed and we most likely have a serious dud on our hands.
Would you say that it was a fail if the Browns traded back out of the #4 spot with someone that you want the Browns to select still on the draft board?
How about if the Browns got an RG3 type of return on the trade? How about just a move down one spot (to Oakland's) and picking up what we gave up for Richardson? That is, recouping a 4th, 5th and 7th rounder this draft?
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once again, thats waiting until next year.
we have had loaded picks ever since heckert was here. having a lot of picks is great....except, how exactly has that helped us out in the W-L column again?
we need a QB. we have ALWAYS needed a QB. its time to stop trading down and do what it takes to get one of the top QB's this year.
so yes, if we trade down again, and the top signal callers are gone, while it can be salvaged by getting a beast WR and a G with our first 2 picks, it's still a failure, because once again we stuck with average-below average QB play.
we need to trade up for Teddy or manziel.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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We have 10 picks and a VERY young team. We don't need more picks.
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we need a QB. we have ALWAYS needed a QB. its time to stop trading down and do what it takes to get one of the top QB's this year.
Yes, isn't that just the flat out truth. Now with all the gossip and actions that have unfolded, there is even more pressure on the organization and the fan base. '
I'm saying it now and I'll say it till draft day - if the Texans are willing to talk turkey, then we need to ship them our 4th pick and I believe it's the 26th pick we got from Indy to them and acquire Bridgewater. It's a win win since they'll remain high in the first round to acquire any of the other top-name QB's (including Johnny) while being able to snag a great defensive player at 26th.
Get it DONE and let's finally start to win some freaking games. 
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once again, thats waiting until next year.
we have had loaded picks ever since heckert was here. having a lot of picks is great....except, how exactly has that helped us out in the W-L column again?
It hasn't. At least, not with this ownership and front office. This is their first draft with a full set of selections and more, with a number of shrewed trades they pulled off.
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we need a QB. we have ALWAYS needed a QB. its time to stop trading down and do what it takes to get one of the top QB's this year.
We may need a starting QB. We MAY already have one in Hoyer. Or, are you going to say that he shouldn't get a shot because Chudzinski was perceived to have been done wrong. Wouldn't you be trying to impose the same penalty on Hoyer that you're saying was unjustly imposed on Chudzinski?
Would it be unjust to call you a hypocrite?
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so yes, if we trade down again, and the top signal callers are gone, while it can be salvaged by getting a beast WR and a G with our first 2 picks, it's still a failure, because once again we stuck with average-below average QB play.
we need to trade up for Teddy or manziel.
And I disagree. Not only do I think that the Browns don't need to trade up, I really think that they should trade back IF the value is there. They should seek a trade out of the #4 spot and move nowhere if they don't like their offers and draft the highest graded player on their board.
For example, if they grade a player (let's use the common 0-100 scale) at 96 but they could acquire a player with a grade of 92 by trading back, but then also get a player with a grade of 85 with the selection that they had given up, they should make the trade. One player won't make your team better. Two better players than you have now will.
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We have 10 picks and a VERY young team. We don't need more picks.
Again, I disagree. We have 10 picks and could use every bit of 10 more.
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One player won't make your team better.
I think the Colts would disagree.
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What the hell are you talking about? Where did this chud done wrong thing come from? What the hell does that have to do with getting a QB? This conversation is happening whether chud is still the HC or not, buddy.
Why? Because we need a QB. If you think Hoyer is the answer, that's your opinion. But don't try calling me a hypocrite, when I have stated multiple times in different threads that if we don't land a QB because their gone than we need to take Watkins at #4 because Hoyer would had him, gordon and Cameron to throw to.
Pay attention.
and once again. I'm tired of trading down. We pick at 4 and 26. And if we don't trade up for a QB, then we need to be picking at those spots. Get the BPA for our team, not trade down. I'm tired of getting lower quality talent because we want to be cheap. It's time we start drafting players that can make a difference instantly, at least in the first 3 rounds.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Hoyer should be afforded every opportunity to take the job, but under no circumstances should he be considered as being enough.
We need to grab a top flight QB, and then we also need to grab one later. If someone else drops in our lap that we cannot pass up, then we should take three of them.
Whatever, however... that position MUST be fixed this offseason.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Hoyer should be afforded every opportunity to take the job, but under no circumstances should he be considered as being enough.
In your response, this is where I would have stopped.
I don't think we necessarily need to take a QB high in the draft, but I wouldn't be upset if we took one in the 3-4th round area and then again in the 6-7th round area.
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Hoyer should be afforded every opportunity to take the job, but under no circumstances should he be considered as being enough.
In your response, this is where I would have stopped.
I don't think we necessarily need to take a QB high in the draft, but I wouldn't be upset if we took one in the 3-4th round area and then again in the 6-7th round area.
If they are quality selections with thought given to what we are specifically looking for, I wouldn't be upset at all if we signed two free agents and drafted three more.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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What the hell are you talking about? Where did this chud done wrong thing come from? What the hell does that have to do with getting a QB? This conversation is happening whether chud is still the HC or not, buddy.
I'm not saying that. The front office is being lambasted for not giving Chudzinski another year, but Hoyer isn't being given the same.
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Why? Because we need a QB. If you think Hoyer is the answer, that's your opinion. But don't try calling me a hypocrite, when I have stated multiple times in different threads that if we don't land a QB because their gone than we need to take Watkins at #4 because Hoyer would had him, gordon and Cameron to throw to.
Hoyer was obviously getting the job done (3-0 as a starter) for the Browns.
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and once again. I'm tired of trading down. We pick at 4 and 26. And if we don't trade up for a QB, then we need to be picking at those spots. Get the BPA for our team, not trade down. I'm tired of getting lower quality talent because we want to be cheap. It's time we start drafting players that can make a difference instantly, at least in the first 3 rounds.
Good. You're sick of trading down. I'm sick of wasting picks trading up. Maybe they'll fool us both and sit pat. 
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Hoyer should be afforded every opportunity to take the job, but under no circumstances should he be considered as being enough.
In your response, this is where I would have stopped.
I don't think we necessarily need to take a QB high in the draft, but I wouldn't be upset if we took one in the 3-4th round area and then again in the 6-7th round area.
OK, fair enough. This is an honest question so I hope it doesn't come across as confrontational, as there is a lot of emotion on the board right now ... who would you target in those spots, that you would think would be available then, and would be good pick ups?
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Hoyer was obviously getting the job done (3-0 as a starter) for the Browns.
Can we stop saying this like he really was 3-0? Yes, he started the Bills game but went out down 0-7. He was 2-0 as a starter if you want to be honest with yourself.
In the three games he played for us, he threw for 615 yards with 5TDs and 3INTs. I'm sorry but there is nothing in his production, either this season or in his entire NFL career that warrants us not going after a QB early in the draft to potentially be our franchise guy. And I actually feel sorry for Hoyer because he had the chance to solidify that role if he didn't get injured. It would have been an awesome story for the city for a hometown guy to be the answer.
But for this FO to forego a QB with their first round picks and lean completely on Hoyer to be the guy would be a huge mistake IMO.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 01/14/14 04:01 PM.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Hoyer was obviously getting the job done (3-0 as a starter) for the Browns.
Can we stop saying this like he really was 3-0? Yes, he started the Bills game but went out down 0-7. He was 2-0 as a starter if you want to be honest with yourself.
That's the odd thing. And you are completely accurate in what you're saying.
Hoyer should be given every chance to "compete" for the job. But I think we're on the same page here in terms of "not drafting a QB based on two complete games".
The comparison Anarchy stated is silly at best. You have three QB's on a roster to compete and be back ups. You have one HC. Trying to use the fact Hoyer won two games with "average play", as some reason not to go big to draft a QB is a huge gamble, not a sensible one.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I like Hoyer and hopes he gets a fair shot at the job, but you are right. He really was 2 and 0. I can't give him credit for the Buffalo win.
I think it is imperative that we draft a qb w/either the 4th pick or by trading up to ensure getting one of our guys. I have NEVER been a fan of trading up, but man, I don't know if we will ever be in this position again. We already have a very high pick--4th overall, and we have ammunition. We have a plethora of extra picks. We are in perfect position to get our guy.
Gotta get it done.
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I agree. We need to draft a QB. Maybe even with the first pick.
What we don't need to do is rush the kid on to the field. It wouldn't bother me if he didn't get in for 5-6 games.....or even 2-3 years if Hoyer is getting it done.
But....the same boo-hoo crowd will complain he is a bust if he doesn't start by the 2nd pre-season game.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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That worries me. I think it would be wise to play Hoyer, especially if we end up w/Manziel or Bortles for a year or two.
However, the media and fans will be screaming for the rookie the entire time and it will get crazy the first time Hoyer throws a pick or loses a couple of games.
That would be a big mistake, but it will still be made by the media and a large portion of the fan base.
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That would be the perfect time for this FO to show that they won't be swayed by fans.
The ONLY time a player should EVER start ahead of another player is when they've PROVEN they are the better option. I don't care if we draft Jesus.... if he can't play better than the incumbent, then the answer needs to be "Sorry God, but your kid is on the bench until further notice".
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Hoyer should be afforded every opportunity to take the job, but under no circumstances should he be considered as being enough.
In your response, this is where I would have stopped.
I don't think we necessarily need to take a QB high in the draft, but I wouldn't be upset if we took one in the 3-4th round area and then again in the 6-7th round area.
OK, fair enough. This is an honest question so I hope it doesn't come across as confrontational, as there is a lot of emotion on the board right now ... who would you target in those spots, that you would think would be available then, and would be good pick ups?
At the 3-4th round, I would target Mettenberger if he's available. If not, I wouldn't mind going with someone like Aaron Murray. At the back end, you could go with Jeff Matthews, although he takes a lot of sacks. I kind of like Bryn Renner too, and he doesn't nearly as many although he did have the shoulder injury.
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I like Arron Murray Georgia in the middle rounds or James Franklin Missouri vs Keith Wenning Ball State later. I would take one of them regardless of whether we take one in the 1st round.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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sorry dude, but i'll take the guy that can walk on water any day of the week.
besides, he can sacrifice his body on the field, he's gonna resurrect anyway.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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sorry dude, but i'll take the guy that can walk on water any day of the week.
besides, he can sacrifice his body on the field, he's gonna resurrect anyway.
Which begs the question.... who would play better at QB: Jesus or Tebow? lol!
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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we get touchdown jesus, and then proceed to draft every single player from notre dame!
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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sorry dude, but i'll take the guy that can walk on water any day of the week.
besides, he can sacrifice his body on the field, he's gonna resurrect anyway.
Which begs the question.... who would play better at QB: Jesus or Tebow? lol!
Jesus has better mechanics and no wind up.
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With Hoyer people often also forget it was one of the few games where the coaching was incredibly aggressive. Against the Vikings we had a fake fieldgoal TD pass, 4th down attempts, and some other gadget plays that kept us alive. (maybe a punt return..? I forget).
For whatever reason when Hoyer was the QB the coaching was much more gutsy and the special teams was superb.
I don't know enough about Bridgewater vs. Manziel. If I was in charge I'd either trade up to #1 for Bridge or #2 for Manziel. Hoping Hoyer works out to be elite is classic browns...We've all seen it before, the best of the bums is still a bum. Get an elite guy already.
When I hear people considering Bortles I get so annoyed. No one thinks he is better than Bridgewater. They think Bortles might be better than Manziel. That says to me we need to trade everything we can for Bridgewater. No settling on QB quality. Never do it. It is classic browns mentality to think you can get by with an inferior QB.
Last edited by Kingcob; 01/14/14 08:25 PM.
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With Hoyer people often also forget it was one of the few games where the coaching was incredibly aggressive. Against the Vikings we had a fake fieldgoal TD pass, 4th down attempts, and some other gadget plays that kept us alive. (maybe a punt return..? I forget).
For whatever reason when Hoyer was the QB the coaching was much more gutsy and the special teams was superb.
Our defense was actually playing at a high level during this period too. That's a little extra security for when you wanna go for it on 4th down, let your D bail you out.
Everything was clicking when Hoyer played. The moment he went down, the lungs of this team were instantly collapsed.
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That would be the perfect time for this FO to show that they won't be swayed by fans.
The ONLY time a player should EVER start ahead of another player is when they've PROVEN they are the better option. I don't care if we draft Jesus.... if he can't play better than the incumbent, then the answer needs to be "Sorry God, but your kid is on the bench until further notice".
You are on a roll tonight.
Teams like Pittsburgh are never swayed by the fans or media. They even admit it. LOL
I'm w/you on this one........but man, it will get even uglier around here if we don't play the rookie and the team struggles even a little bit. I don't know how much arguing w/the masses I have left in me. I'm getting old and tired. 
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That would be the perfect time for this FO to show that they won't be swayed by fans.
The ONLY time a player should EVER start ahead of another player is when they've PROVEN they are the better option. I don't care if we draft Jesus.... if he can't play better than the incumbent, then the answer needs to be "Sorry God, but your kid is on the bench until further notice".
You are on a roll tonight.
Teams like Pittsburgh are never swayed by the fans or media. They even admit it. LOL
I'm w/you on this one........but man, it will get even uglier around here if we don't play the rookie and the team struggles even a little bit. I don't know how much arguing w/the masses I have left in me. I'm getting old and tired.
I know what you mean man. It's why I just turn it off or simply choose to stay away more often than not.
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If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I don't know how much arguing w/the masses I have left in me.
I suspect that it is quite a bit 
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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I don't know how much arguing w/the masses I have left in me. I'm getting old and tired.
Why bother arguing? I know that I generally don't and it's a whole lot less stressful 
I say what I have to say and that's it... who cares if anyone hears me or agrees with me? I don't.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Good point. I have always defended the underdogs. It's in my nature.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,806
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,806 |
Wasn't sure which was the best thread to put this in. Ended up picking this one (thank you captain obvious). Houston Texans owner Bob McNair gushes about Jadeveon Clowney as rare prospect (Video) Eric Edholm By Eric Edholm Shutdown Corner The Houston Texans are not being coy about their draft intentions. The owners of the first pick in the draft already have made their intentions clear about that pick being for sale to the highest bidder. And now they might be sending strong hints about whom they are interested in drafting. Team owner Bob McNair was quite revealing when speaking with the Texans team website and when the name of South Carolina defensive end Jadeveon Clowney. When asked about the mercurial Gamecock prospect, McNair — a South Carolina grad — didn't hold back. “He is a remarkable player," McNair said. "He’s one of these players that’s really a once-in-every-10-years kind of physical specimen that comes along.” McNair oversaw and approved the drafting of Mario Williams a decade ago (over the much ballyhooed Reggie Bush, mind you), so it would be no surprise if the owner can get behind drafting Clowney, even if he's far from the consensus top pick. The Texans have a need a quarterback, and it's pressing. New head coach Bill O'Brien likely has figured this out by now. Matt Schaub will go elsewhere, per all indications, and holdover Case Keenum might not be who O'Brien envisions as his future leader under center. So that leaves the still-strong possibility that the Texans would take one first overall. Except ... If McNair is letting it slip out now that he loves Clowney and that the pick is most definitely for sale, which GM Rick Smith has talked openly about, then it certainly opens the door quite wide for something other than, say, Louisville's Teddy Bridgewater being the Texans' choice on May 8. A working theory if you're the Texans: O'Brien is the kind of offensive mind who can turn a lesser prospect into just as good a pro as Bridgewater, Blake Bortles or another top-5 or top-10 prospect, so why not take a pass rusher such as Clowney if you believe in him? The Texans also need to beef up their defensive pressure, even with J.J. Watt, and they might want another talent such as Clowney there not only to help take pressure off Watt from seeing every-down double teams, but also in reverse: as in, the highly motivated Watt being able to push the questionably motivated Clowney. Incredibly, McNair even discussed such a scenario happening. "One of the things I said to J.J. was, 'I don't know what will happen, if we get Clowney, I want you to instill the same kind of work habits that you have," McNair said. "He said, 'If he's in the same room as me, he'll have them.'" If we get Clowney? Owners typically don't speak this candidly in public, not even with the home-team friendly official website folks. This is a clear sign that the Texans and their Palmetto State-bred owner are very much interested in Clowney — at one, or whatever pick they end up with. It makes some sense. We already know that no-nonsense Mike Vrabel is coming to join O'Brien's staff, and together they — and the new defensive coordinator, rumored to be Romeo Crennel — could hope to turn Clowney into a Willie McGinest-like pass rusher if they can get that motor running hot consistently. The early draft wheels are in motion, and this could be a fun one. The Texans and St. Louis Rams have put for-sale signs on their picks. There are 3-4 quarterbacks who could go high, and you have the Bridgewater, Clowney and Johnny Manziel factors — all buzz players whose destinations are quite up for conjecture. You also have a record number of underclassmen declaring, a number that could end up north of 100 (it was in the low 90s as of Tuesday) when it's all said and done. And the Texans have made themselves one of the big stories. If the Cleveland Browns, let's say, decide they want Manziel, would they make a blockbuster trade — they own the 4th, 26th and 36th overall picks — with the Texans to get him? We're just getting started here, folks. It could be a fun spring of speculation. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdo...--nfl.html?vp=1
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419 |
I would love to see us trade up to the top spot and grab Bridgewater. From what I have seen, he seems most likely to succeed in the NFL game.
Hopefully the front office makes the right call(s) in this coming draft.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 Well, we know where the Browns are
slotted in the NFL Draft
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