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With all due respect DC, but I'm not sure you got what I was trying to say.
No, they did not sign any of those PBowlers, but they think in those terms (blue chippers) and want to have as much as they can of them on their team, regardless of where they came from.
Actually, them not being responsible for any one of them is an indictment to their job the past 12 months, although I'm sure internally they consider Kruger and D.Bryant to be "blue chippers" as well or they would not have given them the kind of money the got.
I'm not even talking about the many flaws this "system" has on the content part, just what it does to the rest of our roster: Try to think about it with the minds of the FO: if we have so many "blue chip" players why do we have an equal or even worse record than teams with less "blue chip" players? That's the question they're asking. Of course, their answer is that Chud did a poor job. I'm sure Chud would agree with me and say: THEY did a poor job, as this CAN also mean that they did a poor job with all those non-blue chip players they filled their roster with. You know, the "other" 90% of the roster, that is significant too. To be as bad as those other teams means that we have LESS talent on th middle and back end of the roster...and that's supposed to be the easiest part to fill with cheap/decent talent.
As an example: think it in baseball terms: What good is an ace in your rotation when the other 80% of the rotation is filled with fringe no5 SP talent? I think our roster reflects that
And here's the "problem" and/or "rift" these guys had: This mindest thinks that the "rest", everything "non-blue chip" is not much differentiated, like "who cares". They think it's a coache's job to make them "ok" and work together with the "real" difference makers. But that's not how that works and I'm sure every coach would agree. It's actually where a FO's job STARTS, as every idiot can figure out "blue chip" talent when he sees one.
Long story short: they have this ass backwards with this "logic" imho. Cart before the horse and Adam's point goes along with it too: they want it asap too, thinking that "greatness" will reveal itself instantly, be it player or coach. Everything else: if the player/coach is potentially AVG, above AVG , bad, even goodm or horrible seems to be pointless for them....that's what I mean by saying it's elitist: it has to be "championship" caliber or its useless. They don't differentiate the big rest, but that should actually be their job imho
So, my main point is the consequence it has for the rest of the roster and some of those post-Chud reports indicate a rift exactly because of what I alluded to. The FO searching for "greatness" even on the bottom 3rd of the roster that normally is reserved with "overachieving" ST guys with little actual playing upside. Instead we have guys like Fragel, Hazel, Gray, Milton and a bunch of other UDFA rooks as backups and ST players. No more Sorensen's, Trusnik's etc. That was the other extreme btw. We really NEVER had a FO that cared about having functional depth.
This FO though was extreme, as even starting positions were filled with "hopefuls": RB, FB, TE, FS, CB2, ILB2
Some worked out like Cameron at TE. Gipson and Skrine are debatable, but imho they flopped too. They are keepers, but not starters and for sure not "blue chippers". The rest flopped badly.
They just didn't see the "need" to upgrade there, as they were probably thinking: if we can't get a "championship guy" (think Grimes), we might as well roll with Skrine/Owens. They never considered there to be guys between Grimes and Skrine/Owens. They had no plan B they were really content with, so they did nothing, thinking that's a coach's job to get them up to speed. They could not do the same with the HC job, as they HAD to fill it with someone, but we'e seen what this logic does with regards to that with the firing of Chud. Next guy up...in search of that instant "championship" guy.
To be blunt, I consider this an incredibly stupid way of "building" a roster.
#gmstrong
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A few weeks ago you were the guy questioning if Chud was any good.....good call by the way. I can honestly say I never saw this comming, but now that it has happened, I am good with the move.
We didn't improve and Chud kept playing loser players while guys who could help weren't.
The fact that Chud got fired does not make me happy in the least. I thought it was obvious he was in over his head, and I was really surprised to meet so much resistance about it. The product on the field spoke for itself. Chud was coaching like he was getting a free pass and it came to bite him in the arse. However, having said that, I wholeheartedly agree with AdamP's point, and I think the best thing for the Browns would have been to give Chud another year to see if he coud improve.
What I am most disappointed in now is the level of dysfunction that is exists in this franchise and is coming to the surface. That's on Haslam. Let's say you're right and it's a good thing they made this decision quickly instead of sitting on it. That doesn't change what appears to be a franchise in complete disarray. A laughingstock across the league. An owner with zero experience. And his right man with not much more than that. Does anyone else find it odd how much credit Banner takes for Philly's success? And we have a cancer for a GM that is proving to be the same here.
Make no mistake ...Chud did himself no favors at all. But this peeling back of the onion that was brought on by his firing is revealing a franchise that is a complete and utter mess.
And by the way, did I mention the many faces of Haslam?  That press conference was pure comedic gold when watching Jimmy. You could tell he's not used to being talked to that way. So I have some advice for him. Get a hold of your franchise and get your crap together. You are now the butt of everyones jokes. You better turn this around quickly.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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.. the level of dysfunction that is exists in this franchise and is coming to the surface....
That has been apparent since the presser announcing the hiring of Lombardi, and probably since Day One...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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That press conference was pure comedic gold when watching Jimmy
I watched the press conference and I didn't think it was funny at all. In fact, I thought it was embarrassing and immature.
Quite a few posters have been blasting the fans for booing Weeden. They say it makes Cleveland look bad. I was thinking about that while watching teams like San Diego and Chicago--who had a shot to make the playoffs---get booed this past Sunday.
Now, we have professional journalists being shown nationwide because of how irresponsible their questioning was. The one guy was asking questions that he got from ignorant fans off of Face Book or Twitter. Really?
No other city did anything close to that or has done anything close to it. Only in Cleveland. We get on the national news for reading questions posted by irrational fans that wonder if we are being run by The Three Stooges. We get on national TV for burning LeBron's jersey. We get on the national tv for Bottlegate. We get on TV for Beer Night.
It's one thing when drunken fans act like idiots, but it's another when so-called professional members of the media act irresponsibly.
The odd thing is that those of you who were so upset that Timid got booed or Weeden got booed are the same people reveling in what was a disgrace of a press conference and once again made Cleveland look like a second class city.
Party on............
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... wonder if we are being run by The Three Stooges.
That had no place in the presser, neither did the question about Flying J. The balance of the questions were, for the most part, tough but fair...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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You know what makes Cleveland look like a second class city? The Browns!
This has been the worst run sports franchise in the US for the last 15 years, and it still is. In a league full of parity, you almost have to try to be this bad. The fans are fed up, big deal.
When you have a bunch of liars at the top of your organization creating a poisonous environment, you never going to have a consistent winner. That's the saddest thing to come out of this mess.
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Here's another questionable "logic" used by Lombardi whic is rightfully ridiculed in this article. I post this to further prove my point that these guys logic is concentraded at how a winner looks like, but little to nothing is said how to get there. It's elitist in mindset, deducted after the fact and leads to cart before the horse pragmatics...yeah, I'm proud of this sentence since it's what I see in them in a nutshell http://www.footballperspective.com/mike-lombardi-cracks-the-code-to-winning-in-the-nfl/Mike Lombardi Cracks the Code to Winning in the NFLby Chase Stuart on June 19, 2013 in History, Statistics, Totally Useless Yesterday, Joe Fortenbaugh canonized Mike Lombardi for discovering and emphasizing one of the game’s great hidden stats: the number of rushing attempts plus completions a team has in a game. If you hit 50, you’re in great shape. Fortenbaugh reminds us that Lombardi, whose last team went 2-14, “possesses a vast range of knowledge spanning from management to game theory.” Fortenbaugh does the math for us, noting that the “top-10 teams in rushing attempts + completions combined to post a record of 101-59 (.631) in 2012, with seven of those ten organizations advancing to the postseason. On the opposite end of the spectrum, the bottom-10 teams combined for a 62-97-1 (.387) mark, with zero total playoff berths.” Then, he blows us away with the prize-winning line: "If you take only the teams that averaged 50.0 or more rushing attempts + completions per game over the last five years, you get a combined regular season record of 339-189 (.642), with 22 of 33 (66%) teams qualifying for the postseason. That winning percentage puts a team in between 10 and 11 wins per season." The headline to the article reads: Average a combined total of 50 rushing attempts and completions per game and a winning season will likely follow. I’ll do the article one better: From 2008 to 2012, including playoffs, teams with 50+ rushes + completions have a record of 819-325-3, giving them a .715 winning percentage. After reading that article and getting an inside look into Lombardi’s wisdom, I had considered the code to producing a winning season cracked. But I’ve got a robust database, so I thought maybe I could do even better than that .715 winning percentage Lombardi’s stat produces. The following information is based on the results from every game, regular and postseason, since 2008: Upon further review, there’s no reason to concern yourself with completing passes. Teams that run 30+ times in a game won 79.9% of the time (798-201-1). Here’s another to just focus on the ground game: teams with 2+ rushing touchdowns in a game win 76.5% of all games (414-127-1). But perhaps focusing on offensive statistics is the wrong way to go about it. The real way to win is with defense. Teams that force 3 interceptions or more in a game win 90.0% of the time (210-23-1). Think forcing interceptions is difficult? All defenses really need to do is force incompletions. When your opponent throws 20 or more incomplete passes in a game, you win 87.0% of the time (223-33-1). Even if you only force 15+ incompletions, you still win 75.8% of the time (747-238-2). Instead of focusing on building your secondary, consider getting some pass rushers. Teams with 6+ sacks in a game win 78.4% of the time (81-22-1). Here’s another sign that the game is won in the trenches: teams won 71.6% (290-115-0) of the time that they they finished the game with no sacks. Just say no to passing. Think special teams is one-third of the game? You’re right. Teams won 88.2% of the time when they hit five or more field goals in a game (15-2-0). Getting to 50+ completions + rush attempts sounds tough. Instead, teams should just focus all their energy on winning the first half. Teams that enter the locker room with a lead won 77.1% of all games (945-280-2). Better yet, just win through three quarters: that gives you an 82.6% chance of winning (1031-216-2). Of course, the takeaway isn’t that 50 pass completions + rushes isn’t the key to victory. The real key? To take second half kneel downs. Teams that do that win 98% of the time.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I am not questioning whether or not fans--such as yourself--should be fed up. However, that guy was a paid professional.
You don't want to admit it was embarrassing because you wanted to see the FO squirm. It's great comedic relief for some of you. Great, enjoy.
However, it once again made our city look ignorant and classless.
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It's elitist in mindset, deducted after the fact and leads to cart before the horse pragmatics.
Lombardi could say he uses Charmin toilet paper and you would say the same thing. You're a broken record.
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I am not questioning whether or not fans--such as yourself--should be fed up. However, that guy was a paid professional.
You don't want to admit it was embarrassing because you wanted to see the FO squirm. It's great comedic relief for some of you. Great, enjoy.
However, it once again made our city look ignorant and classless.
you mean ignorant like the rest of the NFL views our FO for canning our HC after one season?
lol, blaming it on the fans cause the FO lied to us? thats classic.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Are you able to read?
Where did I blame the fans? I said a paid media member.
I should take Diam's advice in regards to you. You misinterpret things and then act like I am crazy. Get lost.
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Are you able to read?
Where did I blame the fans? I said a paid media member.
I should take Diam's advice in regards to you. You misinterpret things and then act like I am crazy. Get lost.
what? you do the same crap. and then wanna play victim when somebody calls you out.
i read your post. you're saying the guy is a paid professional. he read comments from the fans, so he represent exactly what we was ALL thinking, except of course you, because you bought their bull hook line and sinker.
it wasn't classless in the least. every hard question, every comment made in that presser, they deserved every last bit of it. the ONLY people looking classless and ignorant are the FO, NOT the fans and the media.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I think you have the causality of events mixed up: the reporter was in that room that day asking that question because those guys in question fired their consensus choice for HC, the proclaimed "up and coming great young football mind" to be their franchise HC after less than one year...
You might think that had something to do with that too when it comes to the terms "professional" and "embarrasing"? To me the question was just the unprofessional and embarrasing aftershock to the unprofessional and embarrasing earthquake those guys caused.
You really think we're perceived that way in the sports world because of that question? I tend to believe it's because of the event that caused that question why we're a laughinstock.
You might want to re-assess who made the city look "classless" and "ignorant"
#gmstrong
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Are you able to read?
Where did I blame the fans? I said a paid media member.
I should take Diam's advice in regards to you. You misinterpret things and then act like I am crazy. Get lost.
I didn't care about listening to the presser until I read this argument. You could literally hear guys in the background saying "Oh my god" to the questions.
hahaha, something Jimmy needs to hear I guess.
My favorite part was hearing Banner talk about how it was embarrassing for him to admit they didn't get it right but that the fans needs to know they aren't going to sit around and wait if they aren't successful. Absolutely agree with that, you messed up, ok, no need to dwell, move on quickly and not 3 or 4 years down the road.
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I am not questioning whether or not fans--such as yourself--should be fed up. However, that guy was a paid professional.
You don't want to admit it was embarrassing because you wanted to see the FO squirm. It's great comedic relief for some of you. Great, enjoy.
However, it once again made our city look ignorant and classless.
It absolutely did not do either of those things. The reporter (who was not a sports reporter by the way) stated several times in no uncertain terms that the words he was reading were not his but words of fans of the team. What he read reflects what is, in my estimation, a pretty accurate assessment of the majority of Browns fans' feelings: the team is an embarrassment to the city and the game, and Lombardi, Banner and Haslam are a group of guys with little-to-no collective experience on how to run an NFL franchise but want to convince you that they know more than everyone else. The FO was disingenuous when they said back in January that Chud was the guy for them, and the were disingenuous when they said that they believed continuity was paramount in running a successful NFL team, and Browns fans are tired of being lied to.
Jimmy Haslam and Joe Banner will never have to look a Browns fan in the face. They can tell us until they're hoarse that they "get it" with how fed up Browns fans are with the constant turmoil and turnover and losing, but no financial interest of theirs is going to replace 30 or 40 or 50 years of loyal fandom. Jimmy and Joe are completely insulated from their audience and believe that if they just keep telling us to trust them while forking over money for tickets and merchandise and stadium upgrades that they'll get it right eventually, despite any track record of doing so in the past. Those statements read by that reporter were, hopefully, a sobering indication to Jimmy that the fans of the team which he owns are not going to be the loyal to him at his behest and blindly give him the benefit of the doubt like they did with Lerner, no matter how much he kisses our collective ass by telling us "Browns fans are the best fans in the world". The sports reporters in this town are too scared of getting a credential pulled or POing their bosses to tell the Browns brass what the fanbase really thinks of the team and of them, and I think it's long overdue that somebody did just that.
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There are ways to ask tough questions,there are ways to make the person being interviewed squirm,without sounding like a complete buffoon.
I view the reporter that asked those particular questions as a gutless coward.He constantly quantified his questions with"these are the fans,not mine" as though that should absolve him of any responsibility to act as a civil human being.
With the advent of the internet,everybody's a journalist.Unfortunately,most are idiots.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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I am not questioning whether or not fans--such as yourself--should be fed up. However, that guy was a paid professional.
You don't want to admit it was embarrassing because you wanted to see the FO squirm. It's great comedic relief for some of you. Great, enjoy.
However, it once again made our city look ignorant and classless.
It absolutely did not do either of those things. The reporter (who was not a sports reporter by the way) stated several times in no uncertain terms that the words he was reading were not his but words of fans of the team. What he read reflects what is, in my estimation, a pretty accurate assessment of the majority of Browns fans' feelings: the team is an embarrassment to the city and the game, and Lombardi, Banner and Haslam are a group of guys with little-to-no collective experience on how to run an NFL franchise but want to convince you that they know more than everyone else. The FO was disingenuous when they said back in January that Chud was the guy for them, and the were disingenuous when they said that they believed continuity was paramount in running a successful NFL team, and Browns fans are tired of being lied to.
Jimmy Haslam and Joe Banner will never have to look a Browns fan in the face. They can tell us until they're hoarse that they "get it" with how fed up Browns fans are with the constant turmoil and turnover and losing, but no financial interest of theirs is going to replace 30 or 40 or 50 years of loyal fandom. Jimmy and Joe are completely insulated from their audience and believe that if they just keep telling us to trust them while forking over money for tickets and merchandise and stadium upgrades that they'll get it right eventually, despite any track record of doing so in the past. Those statements read by that reporter were, hopefully, a sobering indication to Jimmy that the fans of the team which he owns are not going to be the loyal to him at his behest and blindly give him the benefit of the doubt like they did with Lerner, no matter how much he kisses our collective ass by telling us "Browns fans are the best fans in the world". The sports reporters in this town are too scared of getting a credential pulled or POing their bosses to tell the Browns brass what the fanbase really thinks of the team and of them, and I think it's long overdue that somebody did just that.
Exactly. Props to the reporter for being the voice of the fans.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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What he read reflects what is, in my estimation, a pretty accurate assessment of the majority of Browns fans' feelings: the team is an embarrassment to the city and the game, and Lombardi, Banner and Haslam are a group of guys with little-to-no collective experience on how to run an NFL franchise
I agree with this 100%, Adam P.
The reporter proceeded under two specific caveats here. 1.) He is not a sports reporter or a sports guy in general. And, 2.) He was merely conveying fans thoughts regarding the firing. So, don't kill the messenger...
We, as Browns fans are loyal, passionate and maybe a little (or a lot) emotionally unstable when it comes to this franchise.
The thing the FO doesn't understand is the history of the same old song and dance that we have been subjected to for the last 14 years. Excuse us for our lack of confidence and optimism, but we have down this road before, hanging on to any positive comments from one new FO to the next.
In short,they have no idea what we have been through. They can't even sympathize with us. We all say things when we're really frustrated. I'm glad the guy said to at least illustrate to the FO that we tired of being the laughing stock....
#gmstrong.
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Don't forget BC, Haslam and Banner were the reason Haslam and Banner were on that podium.
And again, I ask where is the levity in the situation? Can someone make a collage of all the Haslam faces? Whether you felt the questions were inappropriate or not, you've got to admit that was damn funny. Some of the best faces came when Banner was talking and Jimmy was just sitting there. Just awesome.
Again, I'll ask if anyone is concerned about Banner taking all that credit for Philly? Can someone post his credentials and what he actually did there? Haslam = Inexperienced. Banner = Inexperienced. Lombardi = Failed Multiple Times. If that doesn't make anyone excited that these guys will get it right, then I don't know what will.
Grossi was on the radio this morning and was asked how come a guy like Zimmer isn't getting an interview. He said because Zimmer has no connections to anyone with the Browns. No similar agents. No past working relationship. It has to be a Bellyache guy!
Way to cast a wide open net guys!
2014, it's going to be FANTASTIC! When McDaniels is giving his guys a pep talk, they'll probably walk out of the room laughing at him. I can't wait!
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Bold is good, but you better be right....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I am not questioning whether or not fans--such as yourself--should be fed up. However, that guy was a paid professional.
You don't want to admit it was embarrassing because you wanted to see the FO squirm. It's great comedic relief for some of you. Great, enjoy.
However, it once again made our city look ignorant and classless.
I'll just say this: I've been embarrassed at times to come into work after a heartbreaking Browns loss, an idiotic draft pick, or a dumb FO move, but I've never been embarrassed to associated with other Browns fans. Maybe you have been embarrassed to be associated with the rest of us dumb smucks, but that's your ego's problem, not mine.
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There are ways to ask tough questions,there are ways to make the person being interviewed squirm,without sounding like a complete buffoon.
I view the reporter that asked those particular questions as a gutless coward.He constantly quantified his questions with"these are the fans,not mine" as though that should absolve him of any responsibility to act as a civil human being.
With the advent of the internet,everybody's a journalist.Unfortunately,most are idiots.
The point wasn't to ask a tough question. It was to let Jimmy and Joe know, in a public forum for all to see, exactly where they stand with the fans that they'll never have to look directly in the eye. What did the reporter do that was uncivil? Speak the truth? Why the hell should he coddle them? As somebody else said, the people responsible for Jimmy and Joe sitting at that dais and fielding those questions are Jimmy and Joe.
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 So, how many other reporters in other cities have ever resorted to that type of questioning? Are you saying that other fans don't post negative things about their team? It was unprofessional. It was classless. It was embarrassing. It also speaks to the character of some of you who actually thought it was a good thing. 
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That press conference was pure comedic gold when watching Jimmy
I watched the press conference and I didn't think it was funny at all. In fact, I thought it was embarrassing and immature.
Quite a few posters have been blasting the fans for booing Weeden. They say it makes Cleveland look bad. I was thinking about that while watching teams like San Diego and Chicago--who had a shot to make the playoffs---get booed this past Sunday.
Now, we have professional journalists being shown nationwide because of how irresponsible their questioning was. The one guy was asking questions that he got from ignorant fans off of Face Book or Twitter. Really?
No other city did anything close to that or has done anything close to it. Only in Cleveland. We get on the national news for reading questions posted by irrational fans that wonder if we are being run by The Three Stooges. We get on national TV for burning LeBron's jersey. We get on the national tv for Bottlegate. We get on TV for Beer Night.
It's one thing when drunken fans act like idiots, but it's another when so-called professional members of the media act irresponsibly.
The odd thing is that those of you who were so upset that Timid got booed or Weeden got booed are the same people reveling in what was a disgrace of a press conference and once again made Cleveland look like a second class city.
Party on............
Trust me, I get no joy whatsoever watching the leadership of my team get eviscerated on TV. This ain't no party for me, Vers. Not at all.
I agree that the 3 Stooges comment was immature and unfair. It did not make me laugh. It made me sad that things have come to the point where a comment like that could even happen at a Browns presser.
I'm curious... and I'm not being confrontational here- I really do want to know: You've been a staunch supporter of this admin for as long as you've been back. I admire your backbone and willingness to stand up to the numbers of folks who see them differently, so- what exactly do you see in these guys that engender such loyalty and support?
I'll openly admit that I supported Holmy/Heckert almost to the end of their tenures here... until the reports of dysfunction and foolishness started trickling out. Once those revelations came to light, I was fine with them being gone. But to be honest, I don't really see anything that suggests that these guys are any more capable than the bunch they replaced.
Please help me out on this. Because right now, they look like "Amateur Hour v. 5.0" to me.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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So, how many other reporters in other cities have ever resorted to that type of questioning? Are you saying that other fans don't post negative things about their team?
It was unprofessional. It was classless. It was embarrassing.
It also speaks to the character of some of you who actually thought it was a good thing.
I completely disagree with you.
The ownership needs to lie in the bed they've created. Haslem, Banner, and Lombardi created the situation, and all their squirming and "we get it" crap shows they don't.
They need to feel what the hot seat is all about. They didn't like how Chud performed when he had little to work with, so they canned him. Next on the block? They need to feel the heat. They need to feel what it's like to be looking over their shoulders. They need to see they just created a situation that may bite them in the ass. If they have no patience, why should the fans?
Just because haslem is rich doesn't excuse him from answering questions.........let's face it, reporters ask questions and report.
If asking tough questions makes someone un professional.......well, that's stupid.
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I'm curious... and I'm not being confrontational here- I really do want to know: You've been a staunch supporter of this admin for as long as you've been back. I admire your backbone and willingness to stand up to the numbers of folks who see them differently, so- what exactly do you see in these guys that engender such loyalty and support?
Finally, a fair question.
I have never liked--or supported--the mob mentality. I typically do try to be the voice of the minority. I think it sparks debate. I believe that intelligent debate helps us better understand the situation. I think that by analyzing and evaluating all of the criteria, we can draw a more informed--and intelligent--conclusion.
With that said, I will freely admit that I was happy to get a new owner and a new FO. That stems from me being so unhappy w/our previous ownership and w/my utter distaste that was The Big Show. Heckert was okay. I never thought he was the genius that most proclaimed, but I didn't think he was a bumbling idiot. Again, I am admitting to my dislike of the guys who were here before Haslam and Banner took over.
The next thing is that I am not sold on the new guys. I'm willing to give them 3 years, which is exactly how long the previous regime got. The previous regime never improved their win total. This regime better improve the win total or I will call them failures.
They have done some things I like and some things I don't like. I will admit to being depressed over this most recent move. It disturbs me that Haslam said he believed in continuity and then fires the head coach after one season. I'm not going to get real dramatic and cry about how "he lied to us," though.
Negatives:
--Not maintaining continuity.
--or...hiring a dud in Chud if he really is to blame. [I don't think any of us really know the real story.]
--their first draft failed to produce any dynamic players.
Positives:
--Getting a first for TRich.
--Finding Hoyer and Campbell, which is a step-up from Colt and the rest of the guys that were here.
--Trading up in two rounds in this year's draft. Combine that w/the TRich trade and we now have great flexibility and ammunition to make moves.
--Getting a pick for Colt.
There are more on both sides of the ledger, but you get the idea.
My conclusion is that it's too early to make a final determination. I'll let it play out before I anoint them as saviors or drive a steak through their hearts.
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I have no problem w/the "tough questions." They should have been asked. My problem is w/the questions like "The Three Stooges...." That was an embarrassment. And I fully expected that most of you would disagree w/me. It's not like it is the first time. 
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thanks. 
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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I have no problem w/the "tough questions." They should have been asked.
My problem is w/the questions like "The Three Stooges...." That was an embarrassment. And I fully expected that most of you would disagree w/me. It's not like it is the first time.
I agree that it was an embarrassing question. I also believe that when you do something embarrassing like firing a HC less than a year after hiring him and preaching continuity, embarrassment comes with the territory.
I also believe was a very accurate way of describing the anger and depth of many fans actual feelings at the time.
In total, I believe when you do something that most certainly looks embarrassing, embarrassment will surely come your way. Some call it karma.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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So you don't think that Jimmy and Joe should've been told that their fanbase views the organization as a joke and believes that they are incompetent?
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I have no problem with the question. A lot of the stuff that Banner and Haslam supposedly want to change are the same things they said they wanted to change last time around. They are saying all of the same things they said a year ago.They want to change the same things they wanted to change last time around. They want consistency, except when they don't. When they act like stooges, I have no problem with someone calling them out. Besides, they have every right to know what the fans are thinking and feeling. The fanbase, largely, is outraged. Some fans are OK with what they did, and how they did it, but most see it as a rash move, done in a classless manner. I know that I do. I stood by this front office, more than willing to give them a chance. They abused that support. Now, just a year into the tenure, they have fired the 1st coach they hired. They gave the guy little help, putting off cap space and draft picks until next year. They traded away the only RB we had left. I agree with the move, but man, you have to replace him with something. You simply have to be honest about thing if you are in their position, and with no QB and no RB, trading away draft picks for future picks, and hoarding cap space, they did Chud no favors. They basically held him responsible for an evaluation year, one where they really did little to help. They kept turning over the bottom of the roster, which hurt special teams. On a team with no RB and/or QB, special teams become even more important. I don't have a huge problem with churning the bottom of the roster, until someone loses his job over it. You need consistency to build consistency. 3 QB and God knows how many RB is not being consistent. My problem is that this was an evaluation and development year. Anyone can see that. Look at how Gordon and Cameron developed without a QB. Man, I don't know how much better that could have been. Gordon led the NFL in receiving, despite missing the 1st 2 weeks. Cameron was one of the best TE in the NFL. On defense, Haden took huge steps towards becoming a true shut down CB. Look at how he handled Megatron, and Green, and other top WR. Skrine also developed. He went from being a liability on the field, to being an asset. The young FS Gipson has played far better than most people expected. That is 5 players who really took big steps forward this year. I think that the credit for Baker has to go to Norv. He had Baker in San Diego, and wanted im here, Whether the front office was slow to act on his recommendation, or what, I don't know. I do know that one of the reporters I respect have reported that Chud wanted a true FB on the roster. He wanted one added after the roster was set. The front office disagreed. They felt that Obi could do the job just as well. Chud wanted to use Obi at RB. For a front office that stressed, and still stresses teamwork and cooperation in the management and coaching of the team, it appears that they gave little to Chud. I look at what the national writers say about us, and it is what a lot of us have said. Ranking NFL head coach openings: Lions top the list - CBSSports.com http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foot...ns-top-the-listBear in mind that there are currently 6 openings ....... 6. Browns: The Good: Talent on both sides of the ball, including breakout wide receiver Josh Gordon and shutdown corner Joe Haden. The defense has draft investments (Phil Taylor, Barkevious Mingo) and free agent investments (Paul Kruger, Desmond Bryant). Joe Thomas and Alex Mack are an excellent start on the offensive line ... Cleveland's sitting on a pair of first-round picks after trading Trent Richardson for the Colts first-rounder this year ... Jimmy Haslam says this is a "critical" offseason for the Browns, which means they should be willing to get aggressive with personnel. The Bad: Oh the quarterbacking. Brandon Weeden, Jason Campbell and Brian Hoyer, oh my. At least the next coach will get a shot at playing with a quarterback they had some part in choosing ... Rob Chudzinski got fired after one year. How do you possibly sell that to a candidate who's interested in coming in? ... Cleveland has fired the last four AFC North head coaches ... Did I mention instability as a problem?Yep, we're seen as having stooges running the show. We have been seen that way for years. This group had a real chance to change the national perception of the team. Unfortunately,m they have reinforced it. Yep, Stooges seems about right, until proved otherwise. ***
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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So you don't think that Jimmy and Joe should've been told that their fanbase views the organization as a joke and believes that they are incompetent?
I can't answer for vers, but I'll answer for myself: They absolutely need to be made aware of it. Let's face it, fans won't ever get to ask questions.
Banner and Haslem (possibly along with the hidden stooge) need to face the music.
Here's how the song goes: We gave a guy 1 year, we didn't like what we saw. But give US time.
Double standard?
I would hope banner and the hidden stooge are feeling a bit uncomfortable right now. They created the "win now, or else" atmosphere........they also now have to play in that atmosphere.
Haslem? While you can't be "on the hook" so to speak, your reputation is on the line.
For all 3 stooges, here it is, plain and simple: Win. Next year. Or shut up. You're on the clock......you know, the clock you set.
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Calling them The Three Stooges is a bit extreme. Besides, they know the fan base is upset and acknowledged that. They even said they understood it. My point is that fans across the country make inflammatory remarks in public forums. However, no other city has had a reporter read them out loud in a deliberate attempt to embarrass the participants. Look.............if you guys think it was okay and funny, so be it. But, I reserve the right to speak my mind and I found it utterly distasteful. One question for you guys: How would you have reacted if Jimmy would have answered like this: "When it does happen, don’t come to me for extra tickets for a playoff game or something." or, like this: "You’re either with us or you’re not.” Yet, it's Haslam and Banner who are "arrogant." 
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Calling them The Three Stooges is a bit extreme. Besides, they know the fan base is upset and acknowledged that. They even said they understood it.
My point is that fans across the country make inflammatory remarks in public forums. However, no other city has had a reporter read them out loud in a deliberate attempt to embarrass the participants.
Look.............if you guys think it was okay and funny, so be it. But, I reserve the right to speak my mind and I found it utterly distasteful.
One question for you guys: How would you have reacted if Jimmy would have answered like this:
"When it does happen, don’t come to me for extra tickets for a playoff game or something."
or, like this:
"You’re either with us or you’re not.”
Yet, it's Haslam and Banner who are "arrogant."
they also didn't can their hand picked HC after one season. so there is that. 
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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For the record, I should state that I don't think that the FO are "stooges", and I'm not calling for anyone's head. I'm not upset that they fired Chud because of who he is or what he did or did not do. I'm merely quite bothered by the fact that they sold us one thing (continuity and consensus) and gave us another thing altogether. As YTown put it, they abused our trust. I don't believe that their decision to fire Chud illustrates a sense of urgency or desire to get things right no matter the cost. I think it was a knee-jerk reaction and an indication of the front office failing to see the forest for the trees. I'm not going to tell you that Chud did everything right, but I feel he certainly did enough to warrant a second year as the coach, especially considering the hand he was dealt with regards to personnel. Whoever it is that they hire, they're going to tell us all the same things that they said about Chud. They obviously weren't being honest then, so why should any of us believe that they are now?
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Calling them The Three Stooges is a bit extreme. Besides, they know the fan base is upset and acknowledged that. They even said they understood it.
My point is that fans across the country make inflammatory remarks in public forums. However, no other city has had a reporter read them out loud in a deliberate attempt to embarrass the participants.
Look.............if you guys think it was okay and funny, so be it.
Acknowledging that a fanbase is upset with a decision and being made aware that you and your organization are viewed as being incompetent and an embarrassment to the city are two incredibly different things. People in positions of power make unpopular decisions all the time, and people are generally upset with those decisions. Preaching continuity and consensus and then hiring a coach and firing him less than a year later goes well beyond the realm of "unpopular decision" and enters "embarrassing" territory. When you do things that are embarrassing, expect to be told by those that are invested in you that you are an embarrassment.
Was it funny? No. Necessary for them to hear? Absolutely.
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They even said they understood it.
Of course they would say that. What else could they say? "we don't care what the fans think?"
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My point is that fans across the country make inflammatory remarks in public forums. However, no other city has had a reporter read them out loud in a deliberate attempt to embarrass the participants.
Vers, I understand where you're coming from. But here's my question. What other franchise has changed FO's and coaches more in the last 14 years? Pretty sure that we know the answer for that. So, to me, no other city has earned the "right?" to do so. I mean we're all sick of it!!!
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One question for you guys: How would you have reacted if Jimmy would have answered like this:
"When it does happen, don’t come to me for extra tickets for a playoff game or something."
or, like this:
"You’re either with us or you’re not.”
At least they had enough sense to not say something like that. If they think they're on the hot seat now, a statement like that would likely have caused a riot.
#gmstrong.
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Holmgren being an arrogant ., has no bearing on whether Banner / Haslam is/are one(s) as well.
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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One question for you guys: How would you have reacted if Jimmy would have answered like this:
"When it does happen, don’t come to me for extra tickets for a playoff game or something."
or, like this:
"You’re either with us or you’re not.”
Yet, it's Haslam and Banner who are "arrogant."
It's been a year since Heckert and Holmgren were fired.
Let it go.
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