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Can Cleveland trade the Cavs for the Blue Jackets? 
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I can't see how this can go on. People are going to lose interest in this team very soon, if they haven't already. Brown/grant need to go...trade kyrie/thompson for players that fit. I add kyrie in there because of the reports he wants out...he or whoever can deny all they want, but we've seen this before. Where theres smoke theres fire. get something for him now. Get a competent GM in here and a coach that knows what a basketball is. George Karl would have been the perfect fit after Scott got fired. I'd give phil jackson 20 million a year to fix this mess.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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you know it's really bad when you have 1 starter take more shots than the other 4. Kyrie took 25 shots, compared to 21 for the other 4. there's was no offense ran tonight. just kyrie and dion jacking up shots. the 2 of them took almost 50% of the teams total. a terrible reflection on mike. he's lost this team for good.
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Honestly, I'd try to trade Kyrie + anybody for a top 3 pick in this draft and draft a PG with our own first rounder.
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at the trade deadline, honestly, theres noone on this team I wouldn't trade for the right deal.. problem is, this is grant making the deals
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Can Cleveland trade the Cavs for the Blue Jackets?
I wish! 
I want the Cleveland Browns to be my pallbearers so they can let me down for the last time.
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at the trade deadline, honestly, theres noone on this team I wouldn't trade for the right deal.. problem is, this is grant making the deals
Grant is going to deal future assets at the deadline to try and save his job. 1st round pick for Pau Gasol? Come on down! What's that? We have to take Steve Nash's contract? No problem!
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Quote:
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at the trade deadline, honestly, theres noone on this team I wouldn't trade for the right deal.. problem is, this is grant making the deals
Grant is going to deal future assets at the deadline to try and save his job. 1st round pick for Pau Gasol? Come on down! What's that? We have to take Steve Nash's contract? No problem!
Man, I hope that Gilbert won't allow that.
I would rather trade Kyrie for a top 3 pick + another top pick than trade away assets for a rent a player who is almost ready to retire.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
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at the trade deadline, honestly, theres noone on this team I wouldn't trade for the right deal.. problem is, this is grant making the deals
Grant is going to deal future assets at the deadline to try and save his job. 1st round pick for Pau Gasol? Come on down! What's that? We have to take Steve Nash's contract? No problem!
I've known this will happen for awhile. When a animal is cornered and scared it will do whatever it takes to survive. It's why Gilbert needs to can him quickly.
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I've known this will happen for awhile. When a animal is cornered and scared it will do whatever it takes to survive. It's why Gilbert needs to can him quickly.
I'm never one to pull for firing a guy, but I think you're right. We're going to be dangerously treading on "Jeri Welsch for a first rounder" territory here if we let Grant sit on the hot-seat for too long.
Only thing worse is than being painfully miserable in your drafts, is blowing up your teams long term future on short term extreme gambles. That's what Paxson did to the Cavs and why I give Ferry a bit of a pass for his time here.
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Man, I hope that Gilbert won't allow that.
Gilbert wants to make the playoffs more than anyone! He guaranteed it at the lottery!
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Man, I hope that Gilbert won't allow that.
Gilbert wants to make the playoffs more than anyone! He guaranteed it at the lottery!
Not that he has the best track record with guarantees.
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Man, I hope that Gilbert won't allow that.
Gilbert wants to make the playoffs more than anyone! He guaranteed it at the lottery!
Yeah, but he can still fire Grant and save face. (to some degree)
I think that this team needs some structural changes. There is talent here, but the pieces don't fit together well.
I like the pieces. I really do.
Irving is an All Star, but is also a ball hog. Not quite what tyou want from your distributor.
Dion is a solid scorer, and can handle the ball ..... but he can't play well with Irving. They play too similar a game.
Deng is an All Star level player. I loved the trade for him, but I fear that it's going to go to waste.
Thompson is a double double.
Andy is a rebounding machine, and can distribute from down low. I really love the way he plays.
This should be a better team than it is.
Jack is a quality backup Guard, at least.
Zeller is a solid backup/spot starter at C.
Miles is a decent player. He can score.
Henry Sims even looks like a solid backup Center type.
This team has talent, and should be far better than it is.
Man, I was actually excited about this season ...... but it's on the fast track to nowhere again.
I am disappointed in the coaching. Brown came in talking discipline and defense, and both have all but gone out the window. The offense runs like a V-10 on 2 cylinders.
*Sigh* Just another year for the fans of a Cleveland team. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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i cannot believe this is a Mike Brown coached team. okay, when watching the offense, I believe it. but, on the defensive end, they have to be the laziest, non-caring group of professional players we have had in a long time. the Knicks got to every 50/50 ball, if they rotated the ball on the perimeter at all they got wide-open looks, and our defenders were constantly flat-footed and didn't seem to even care the Knicks were crushing us.
it's pathetic.
#gmstrong
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I don't think there's any chance Gilbert would sign off on a Kyrie trade, unless he told him he wants out. Even with all of his flaws, he's only 21, so there is time for him to improve. I would first give him the opportunity with another coach, and a revamped roster with veteran leadership. I think Deng is a positive, but he leads more by example. I've always said we need a David West type guy.
Even if you traded him for a top pick, you're telling your fanbase, it's another 5 year rebuild. Plus there is no surefire superstar in this draft. It's deep, and has good players, but you don't give up on a guy that is proven to some degree, for a maybe. If you miss, Gilbert might as well move the team out of Cleveland.
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Plus there is no surefire superstar in this draft.
#gmstrong
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i cannot believe this is a Mike Brown coached team. okay, when watching the offense, I believe it. but, on the defensive end, they have to be the laziest, non-caring group of professional players we have had in a long time. the Knicks got to every 50/50 ball, if they rotated the ball on the perimeter at all they got wide-open looks, and our defenders were constantly flat-footed and didn't seem to even care the Knicks were crushing us.
it's pathetic.
Mike Brown may or may not be a very good coach for all we know, but it doesn't matter because these guys don't buy into him at all. They didn't in LA, and they barely did the first time around in Cleveland. It's not working.
Mike may be better off either taking a college job where the game is shortened by 12 minutes and a longer shot clock, or being a defensive assistant. This experiment needs to be over. This is terrible. If this trend continues through the end of the season, (and right now, who sees different?) it would be a big mistake not to fire him. These guys don't respect him, even if they are coming out today and defending him. They're only doing it to save face because everyone is pointing the finger at them right now.
Nobody is saying this is a top 5, top 10 team, but this group should not be 16-30.
Chris Grant needs to be fired too. He tried this whole drafting outside of the box thing and it blew up in his face. The only pick he really hit on was not only an obvious pick, but a guy now being reported as wanting out.
A lot of the blog media is taking their pot shots at Dan Gilbert, not only as an owner, but as a businessman. I don't really care about that stuff. Maybe he did use the Cavs to get casinos, but I really believe those casinos were eventually coming anyway. I don't care about his other businesses. I just care about this basketball team. He needs to hire better people to do this job, because it's not good enough right now. I fully believe he's committed to winning, which is why I think Grant and Brown don't see the month of May.
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If you fire Mike Brown now, who do you bring in? Let me preface that by saying I think Brown should never have been hired, and at this point firing him and letting the players switch to playground mode would be an improvement. But curious who's out there you guys would want.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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I would hire george karl. We would at least be in the playoffs every year, and be entertaining to watch. I dont think he would be the long term fix, but he would make us instant winners.
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He's who i wanted in the off season, or one of the van gundy's
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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I don't get many Cavs games but I watched most of the game last night and it was horrible.. borderline unwatchable...
yebat' Putin
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I would hire george karl.
Do you really think George Karl would want to walk into this mess midseason? I don't think he would.
The best bet is to hope Brown somehow turns it around. If not you get a lottery pick and fire him.
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Pacers might sign Andrew Bynum. Perfect fit for him and another big body for Indiana against Miami. Play him 5-10 minutes a game during the regular season and use him more against Miami if Hibbert gets in foul trouble. I think they'd beat Miami this year even before the signing.
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Quote:
If you fire Mike Brown now, who do you bring in? Let me preface that by saying I think Brown should never have been hired, and at this point firing him and letting the players switch to playground mode would be an improvement. But curious who's out there you guys would want.
I don't think you ever fire in mid-season unless you have some agreement with a replacement who's clearly better.
But as cfrs said, who's walking into this situation? I think Brown gets the end of the year to turn his around. It's kind of sad that all we're asking is that make the playoffs in the worst conference in pro sports. One that offers up 8 spots nonetheless. We're not asking for a 2 seed.
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I'd settle for a team that look like it gave a fudge.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I'd settle for a team that look like it gave a fudge.
True.
Was watching the Cavs-Knicks game with a buddy who's not really into sports. At one point he turns to me and says, 'I don't really know much about basketball, but are these guys even trying? It doesn't look like it.'
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Dion Waiters was kicked out of a Cavaliers' practice last week, according to Mitch Lawrence of the New York Daily News. Although no Cavs' beat writer reported the incident, Mike Brown wouldn't deny that it happened when questioned on Saturday. Waiters' playing time wasn't affected, possibly because the Cavs' have few alternatives and/or have more incentive to keep his trade value afloat, but no matter how you slice it things are going from bad to worse in Cleveland. Feb 1 - 7:08 PM Source: New York Daily News http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nba/1969Generally I'm not for a mid season firing but things are way past unraveled.
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j/c.. After reading this article in the NY Daily News I'd say it safe to say this team has thrown in the towel and has tuned Mike Brown out. What a disaster. Dan Gilbert should be embarrassed his team has been allowed to operate this way without repercussions. Cavs are a Mess
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I just hate how this team was built. We drafted role players with top 5 picks. That's idiotic as hell. Draft BPA if we land a top 5 pick.
Get rid of everybody on this roster and start over.
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Midseason firings should only take place when it looks like things can't possibly get much worse.
We are at that point.
Brown and Grant have performed like guys who won a contest.
Brown has long been exposed as a guy lucky to have LeBron.
Grant's draft record speaks for itself.
Waiters at 4? Bennett at 1? Karasev at 19? Those are moves you make when you're on the cusp of contention, not trying to climb out of the cellar.
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I wouldn't exclude Kyrie from that list. Point guard should be a complementary piece, not the star of the show.
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I just hate how this team was built. We drafted role players with top 5 picks. That's idiotic as hell. Draft BPA if we land a top 5 pick.
Get rid of everybody on this roster and start over.
I am starting to feel the same way. The Cavs are a dumpster fire right now. If they were being honest, I doubt any player on the Cavs actually want to be on the team and I wouldn't blame them one bit.
The whole franchise is in shambles. You are gifted two #1 overall picks, two #4s, a couple picks in the teens, and 3 years to play around with young talent/find diamonds in the rough and this is the product you put on the court? That is unbelievable. Has there ever been a GM who has done less with more? If so, who?
And why did we re-hire Mike Brown again? Because he won a lot of regular season games when he had the possible future GOAT player in his prime? 
Also, somebody explain the whole 'mandate to make the playoffs' thing to me. It never made sense to me and it still doesn't. Teams don't come out of nowhere and make a run in the NBA. It has happened enough in the NFL and MLB for there to be something there, but NOT the NBA. Even in the most hopeful, optimistic light, the Cavs were never going to be able to contend with the Heat and Pacers this year. So what is really the point of nabbing the 8th seed anyway? That was meant as a general comment but if Deng walks at the end of the year, that's going to be a painful pill to swallow giving up 3 or whatever picks just to pull ourselves away from the top of the draft (where the difference makers are supposed to be, but dont tell Chris Grant that).
I don't see this core as currently constructed being contenders anytime soon. Or ever really. I will be surprised if the Cavs win a playoff series any time in the next few years.
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They need to make the playoffs so they can get a taste of what real basketball is.
The pace of a playoff game is a lot different than a regular season game. You don't take possessions of and your transition game and transition defense are huge.
This group needs to understand all of that. You can only tank so long before that comes back around to bite you, and by that, I mean guys taking off because they want to win.
I don't care what anyone thinks of Mike Brown, these players aren't listening to their coach, and that's no good.
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The whole franchise is in shambles. You are gifted two #1 overall picks, two #4s, a couple picks in the teens, and 3 years to play around with young talent/find diamonds in the rough and this is the product you put on the court? That is unbelievable. Has there ever been a GM who has done less with more? If so, who?
Well, Jim Paxon did more long term damage, but he also actually drafted Lebron when he had a #1 pick. I'm thinking we should let Grant go before we see any Paxson-like trades though. Other than Kyrie, he completely out-thought himself on these draft picks. His trade record hasn't been horrible though, but that could change quickly here.
I think both him and Brown have lost the team. There was an article a few days ago about how Grant lambasted the team for playing like they didn't care. I think the next day was the Knicks game ... and the players showed him what playing like they didn't care was really like. I don't think the players ever really bought into what Brown was selling ... and I don't really blame Brown that much. This team wasn't built to be the defensive team he wants. They want to play offense. Actually, we weren't built to be much of anything. We've got a bunch of Tweener guards and Tweener Power Forwards all trying to fit into a position. Rather than drafting a true shooting guard like Klay Thompson or a true center like Andre Drummond, Grant went all-in on his saber-metrics and took guys that don't really fit into a specific role or position.
But I think everyone's right ... this team has quit on their coach. Grant needs to go before he does any more damage, and Brown probably needs to go to get the troops rallied before the season ends and everyone asks to be traded.
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Thought this was interesting: http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2...partner=ya5nbcs
Report: Luol Deng shocked at mess that is the Cavaliers
Brett Pollakoff Feb 2, 2014, 8:00 AM EST
When Luol Deng was traded from the Bulls to Cleveland, he was coming from the only team he had known in his nine-plus NBA seasons. His Chicago teams, especially under head coach Tom Thibodeau in recent years, have been the epitome of professionalism in pursuing winning above all else.
The Cavaliers, apparently, are the complete opposite.
Deng reportedly is shocked at some of the goings on in his new surroundings, the particulars of which are detailed by Mitch Lawrence of the New York Daily News:
As Deng recently told one close friend, “the stuff going on in practice would never be tolerated by the coaching staff or the front office back in Chicago. It’s a mess.”
Deng was brought in to help clean it up when he arrived in a deal for Andrew Bynum on Jan. 7. But since then, he’s seen players get thrown out of practice, take off their uniform tops at halftime and threaten not to play, mouth off to Brown and generally act like spoiled brats. …
There is no accountability, as Dion Waiters found out when he was kicked out of practice last week but still got his usual minutes against the Knicks.
Mike Brown may have done an adequate job when he had LeBron James on the roster during his first stint in Cleveland, but his personality is geared toward basketball more than it is charismatic leadership or taking on the role of a disciplinarian.
When things start to go bad on one of Brown’s team, they snowball to a level that gets out of control extremely quickly — which is exactly what happened when he was relieved of his duties as coach of the Lakers just five games into last season.
There are real problems with personalities in the Cavaliers locker room — Waiters is immature, and Irving lacks the level of star power to command enough respect. The accountability needs to come from the top, and it doesn’t seem like Brown or GM Chris Grant are able to get the players on the same page.
The good news for Deng is that he’s an unrestricted free agent once this season is finished. The Cavaliers, however, will be stuck with this mess moving forward unless the required changes are made, which seemingly need to take place at multiple levels of the organization.
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I was just going to post that. If that is the case, the staff needs to be gone asap...i wouldn't even wait for the break. This is exactly the same stuff we heard that went on when lebron was here. I think Waiters is a cancer, he needs to be traded.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Certainly sounds like a mess. Not sure if changing the GM and coach is going to suddenly make the players more accountable. Sounds like we have a lot of spoiled, self-centered players that are not committed to winning. I live out of state now and rarely catch a Cavs game, so it's hard for me to argue intelligently on the subject. I do know that I don't like what is being written about the Cavs, though. 
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We need someone who can instill discipline in this team .... and that seems like it's going to be a tall order. This team is poorly constructed. This team has talent, but they have no idea how to, or are unwilling to, play together. I know why we drafted Bennett, because if he could play outside, he could clear lanes for Irving and Waiters to drive. Unfortunately, that idea has crashed so far.
"Dumpster fire" may be an understatement right about now. I would look into trading anyone at this point, Kyrie included. I really hate that this team is so screwed up mentally. I really like Deng, but there is no chance he re-signs here at this point. He's a pro on an amateurish, spoiled rotten team with no real direction.
*Sigh* Typical Cleveland team, I guess.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Well, Jim Paxon did more long term damage, but he also actually drafted Lebron when he had a #1 pick.
Is that really an achievement?
'Won the Powerball' isn't exactly a resume booster.
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Other than Kyrie, he completely out-thought himself on these draft picks. His trade record hasn't been horrible though, but that could change quickly here.
He has done very well with trades. Sometimes that's hard to remember when looking at this squad. The guy turned Mo freaking Williams into the #1 pick. Because of him, no team in the NBA will ever trade an unconditional first again.
Irving was a no brainer. I still make that pick today. The guy isn't a franchise player, IMO, but he's your choice there.
I was furious when we took Thompson at #4. He was SO raw. He's developed a very nice game. Had we made better choices down the line, he might look even better. He needs help to cover a lot of deficiencies, and that will probably never change, but the guy can be the starting 4 for a legit contender.
Waiters and Zeller were awful picks. In hindsight, you take Drummond at #4. . Zeller is a stiff, but that happens a lot when you chase 7 footers in the middle of the first. There wasn't much there in that draft, anyway.
Bennett....wow. Time will tell. Wasn't big on it then, looks like a disaster now,. In hindsight, you take Michael Carter-Williams, but now you've got a problem, as pushing either Irving or The Hyphen to the 2 isn't really going to work, so let's make it Oladipo.
With 20/20 hindsight, those moves end up -
5 - Drummond
4 - Thompson
3- ???
2- Oladipo
1 - Irving
On paper, that looks like a 5-8 seed, especially in the weak East. Maybe a low odds lottery team if the wheels fall off. That squad at the least drums up LeBron Returning in 2014 buzz (even though it's little more than the fantasy of a desperate addict. Go read Gilbert's jackass letter again and tell me you'd play for that guy).
Sigh.
Fire Brown, fire Grant, hope you land the #1 pick.
So it goes.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445 |
Quote:
They need to make the playoffs so they can get a taste of what real basketball is.
The pace of a playoff game is a lot different than a regular season game. You don't take possessions of and your transition game and transition defense are huge.
This group needs to understand all of that. You can only tank so long before that comes back around to bite you, and by that, I mean guys taking off because they want to win.
I don't care what anyone thinks of Mike Brown, these players aren't listening to their coach, and that's no good.
I don't really see how playing 5 games in the post-season one year is going to get a core of players over the hump. Obviously there comes a time when enough is enough and a team has to start to make a push, I just question the short-sightedness of it all when best case scenario was that the Cavs would still be far away from a title.
If the young core of players made a playoff push, great! It's the overpaying and banking on marginal players/risks like Jarrett Jack, Bynum, and then drafting a guy like Bennett with the idea of.... wait, I have no idea what the heck they were thinking there.
So where do the Cavs go from here? At one point I was afraid they would be stuck on the mediocrity treadmill. That seems like a fantasy at this point.
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