|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,573
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,573 |
Brian Windhorst also confirming Chris Grant has been fired. I agree cfrs, this is good news in that he can't do any more damage to save his job. Now, tell Mike Brown to take a hike at the end of the season. Brian Windhorst
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,480
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,480 |
Why wait until the end of the season? It's already obvious that Brown is a failure -- and he's lost the locker room.
The only thing keeping Brown will get you is a better tank - but you might lose a guy like Deng or Irving in the process.
~Lyuokdea
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
The only thing keeping Brown will get you is a better tank - but you might lose a guy like Deng or Irving in the process.
Deng is pretty much a goner. He will be unrestricted this off-season. Kyrie is a whiner who doesn't play defense. Do you really want that guy to be your franchise guy? He is almost a lost cause at this point.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,480
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,480 |
So if you are going to completely blow up the team (Deng + Irving + Varejao (cause he's old and not a rebuild guy) + Waiters (might be crazy) + Bennett (terrible) + Thompson (soft)
In that case, why do you keep Brown? Might as well get a new guy who you can get a feel for over the next few months.
~Lyuokdea
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
Quote:
So if you are going to completely blow up the team (Deng + Irving + Varejao (cause he's old and not a rebuild guy) + Waiters (might be crazy) + Bennett (terrible) + Thompson (soft)
In that case, why do you keep Brown? Might as well get a new guy who you can get a feel for over the next few months.
I would think that a new GM will almost certainly want to bring in his own coach.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
I honestly think we coukd trade everyone on this team for picks and expiring deals, draft and sign a whole team. And they would play better than this group is.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,573
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,573 |
Fire Brown now or at the end of the season…doesn't matter much to me. This team is garbage and they'll be back in the lottery either way.
Deng isn't coming back next year. I certainly wouldn't be opposed trading Irving either. The guy has a loser attitude and is not a leader. Dion Waiters can start packing his bags too. There is not any chemistry on this team and a bunch of me first attitudes with zero accountability.
Ship Kyrie out to Utah for Trey Burke and their draft pick.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Probably the right time to do this.
If you think you are going to fire him at the end of the year, then just do it now, 2 weeks before the trade deadline. Don't let a guy who knows his days are numbered work the deadline or anything else.
Bring in someone immediately, and allow them to evaluate this roster for a week, and then start working the phones on whatever deal you want.
I almost don't care anymore. I know one small run could lift them to an 8th seed, but they are also in high lotto territory.
Depending on what's done at the deadline, if you can go into the offseason with a high pick, a few pieces on this roster, maybe you can throw money at you know who, or someone else.
Mike Brown has to know his days are numbered now. Whatever new GM gets brought in is going to obviously want his own guy. I'm sure Dan will have to work on some kind of a buyout, because that's a hefty bag of cash as it stands (20m)
Cleveland sports right now is really low. Don't know about all-time low, but it's bad.
What happened last night was unacceptable, and Chris Grant just paid for it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186 |
Quote:
Drafting to build a team is not the problem. It's just Grant is the worst drafting GM ever.
a roster full of young players never wins anything, with the exception of a durant type player. This team lacks maturity. I dont want to go through the same types of problems for another rebuild. I would trade our current players for leadership, and guys that have experience, but young enough to make an impact. Just think you need a mix.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
Deng is pretty much a goner. He will be unrestricted this off-season
agreed. though, if we play our cards right, then we can still get a sign-n-trade deal with someone.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
saw this on one of the newsfeeds:
Chris Grant told Dan Gilbert he will do better when he gets re-hired 3 years from now with the Cavs
(yes, a joke. a funny one IMO)
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234 |
Sell team! Bring them to Columbus! 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,847
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,847 |
J/C well thats good news to hear..now I'd fire brown and let bernie take over until they get a new GM in place and picks his coach.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Bernie Kosar can do anything!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
Quote:
J/C well thats good news to hear..now I'd fire brown and let bernie take over until they get a new GM in place and picks his coach.
Kosar or Bickerstaff? Heck, Bernie Brewer could do a better job than Grant.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Quote:
J/C well thats good news to hear..now I'd fire brown and let bernie take over until they get a new GM in place and picks his coach.
Kosar or Bickerstaff? Heck, Bernie Brewer could do a better job than Grant.
The dead guy from Weekend at Bernie's could do a better job.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Quote:
Quote:
Drafting to build a team is not the problem. It's just Grant is the worst drafting GM ever.
a roster full of young players never wins anything, with the exception of a durant type player. This team lacks maturity. I dont want to go through the same types of problems for another rebuild. I would trade our current players for leadership, and guys that have experience, but young enough to make an impact. Just think you need a mix.
You're right, young teams don't win, but isn't it fair to expect the team as a whole, and the individuals to get better? They look worse than they did last year...
Irving looks worse. Waiters doesn't look any better than last year, and Thompson might be minimally better...
I remember last year when Scott went off on this team when he said everyone with the exception of Andy sucked (that night). Apparently not much has changed. Andy works his butt off. He's never going to average 20ppg or be an all star but the guy gets the most out of himself, and apparently it rubs off on nobody else in that locker room.
You can fire Grant, Brown, and anyone else, but these players still look like quitters to me. Maybe quitters is too strong of a word, but they definitely have had the look of a group that is feeling sorry for themselves.
I know Mike Brown isn't Phil Jackson, or Pop, or any of these guys, but you all know that he's better than this.
My only question is, who gets brought in right now? Who's available? If not, then do we not do anything at the deadline? Is there anyone qualified in that organization right now to make moves?
I think Grant will look back on his time in Cleveland and regret a ton. Too much trying to think outside the box, and not enough sticking with being safe and steady. When he chose Irving, he did it because he thought that was the best guy in the draft, and maybe a little bit of "that's who most GM's would have taken".
When he had all these other picks, he didn't use that same thinking. He tried to be cute. It blew up in his face. I can't speak for Waiters or Thompson because we don't really know, but I think we can say with absolute certainty that there is no way in hell they thought Bennett was the best guy available.
I remember saying that if you wanted to maybe go different in the draft, or reach a little bit, this was the one to do it. Taking Anthony Bennett isn't reaching. It's just flat out bad.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
Quote:
Quote:
Deng is pretty much a goner. He will be unrestricted this off-season
agreed. though, if we play our cards right, then we can still get a sign-n-trade deal with someone.
Didn't the rules change on sign and trade in the last CBA?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
Yes. No more Bird max deals and a team can't be more than $4 million into the luxury tax level.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
J/C well thats good news to hear..now I'd fire brown and let bernie take over until they get a new GM in place and picks his coach.
Kosar or Bickerstaff? Heck, Bernie Brewer could do a better job than Grant.
The dead guy from Weekend at Bernie's could do a better job.
I thought Bernie Kosar was the guy dead from Weekend at Bernie's, just in real life.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186 |
I think part of it, they don't respect Brown as head coach. I'm really surprised Gilbert didn't fire Brown as well. Grant and Brown were tied at the hip.
I believe Grant was finished when Waiters and Irving couldn't play together. Taking Waiters at 4 was so shocking to me. I seen him play at the tourney in pittsburgh, and nothing about him stood out to take him that high. Grant was always going for the home run, taking the best player available. He really bought into the hype of Dion being the next Dwayne Wade. I can't fault him for having stones, but he whiffed tremendously, on the backcourt of Dion and Kyrie. Never understood the Zeller pick either. He was 2nd rd talent, and had a chance to take JJ Sullinger, right in our home state.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,276
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,276 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
J/C well thats good news to hear..now I'd fire brown and let bernie take over until they get a new GM in place and picks his coach.
Kosar or Bickerstaff? Heck, Bernie Brewer could do a better job than Grant.
The dead guy from Weekend at Bernie's could do a better job.
 Actually made me lol.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Quote:
I think part of it, they don't respect Brown as head coach. I'm really surprised Gilbert didn't fire Brown as well. Grant and Brown were tied at the hip.
So who's fault is that, Brown for being a bad coach or the players for not listening to their coach?
I blame the latter, although I was with everyone else who questioned bringing MB back. The worst part of it, was that it had the feel of the Browns-Shurmur hire. They didn't do a thorough, well thought-out, wide search for the right guy. They just bought into some feel-good story about bringing him back. They would have been better off not firing him and letting him have the long tenure (by NBA measures) as the young guys came in. That's what happens when you fire coaches, the players don't think they are the problem, and they start buying into the fact that they will be there longer than their boss.
I think the best thing for everyone is that a new GM will take us away from this pseudo Greg Popvich tree.... It was worded that this guy taking over is an "acting" GM, so I take that as they will do a search after the season.
I wonder if they start to look at the Pacers organization?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
I guess I've been living in a cave for the last day. How'd I miss this story??
Long overdue, and I think it should be understood that Mike Brown is basically fired right now. It just doesn't make any sense to dump him when you don't have a GM in place to hire a new coach.
I think the problem was that Grant drafted and built this team like he was playing a video game. He looked strictly at the saber-metrics and thought that "this guy is going to give me more projected PER than this guy, so I'll take him" ... what he didn't do was get pieces that fit. Which is why we have terrible team chemistry and a lot of guys that don't really fit in a definite position.
I'm not even sure where this team can go now. We've got an island of misfit toys that aren't going to gather you a whole lot of high level draft picks if you decide to blow things up. Even if you wanted to trade Kyrie right now, you'd be getting the lowest possible value for him.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
The funny thing is, you don't even need to blow it up, they're already at rock bottom. Pretty soon they may actually be at the bottom of the league to boot... Right back in the lottery. At this point, that is probably not a horrible thing.
One good week of basketball and this team is right back in that playoff talk, although this group has shown you absolutely nothing other than a 3-2 west coast trip that certainly was not telling of this group.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
It's also sort of hard to gauge the talent level of the team. This team has flat out quit on their coach and each other. They are playing well below what they are capable of. Whether a different coach is going to get them to play together or up to their individual potential is another question though.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
They were saying on the radio this morning that LeBron was thinking about Miami or Cleveland at the end of this contract but how can he even consider Cleveland now? He's walking back into a mess that almost as bad if not worse than the one he walked into the last time. It's sad where this team could be right now..
I'm assuming they fired the GM before the coach so they can bring the new GM on board and give him input into the hiring of the new coach when that happens... at least I hope that is what happens.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
Quote:
I'm assuming they fired the GM before the coach so they can bring the new GM on board and give him input into the hiring of the new coach when that happens... at least I hope that is what happens.
They want to give him some good graces with the fans right off the bat ... so they are letting him be "the guy who fired Mike Brown".
Quote:
They were saying on the radio this morning that LeBron was thinking about Miami or Cleveland at the end of this contract but how can he even consider Cleveland now? He's walking back into a mess that almost as bad if not worse than the one he walked into the last time. It's sad where this team could be right now.
Very sad ... although I don't know if it's much worse. Now we've at least got some cap space, future draft picks, and somewhat decent young talent on the roster. Granted the chemistry is horrible, but I'd probably take this over Eric Williams, Kevin Ollie, Jeff McGinnis and Ira Newble. The only young talent those early Lebron years teams had was Boozer, and they lost him as soon as he broke-out. After than, Paxson and Ferry blew all their cap-space and draft picks on guys like Hughes, Marshal, Welsch, etc ... and Lebron was stuck in a position where the Cavs couldn't get draft picks inside the top 20 and couldn't get Free Agents because they were over the cap.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Quote:
They were saying on the radio this morning that LeBron was thinking about Miami or Cleveland at the end of this contract but how can he even consider Cleveland now? He's walking back into a mess that almost as bad if not worse than the one he walked into the last time. It's sad where this team could be right now..
I'm assuming they fired the GM before the coach so they can bring the new GM on board and give him input into the hiring of the new coach when that happens... at least I hope that is what happens.
How much of it is a mess if they land a top 3 pick, have Irving, a few other pieces though? That's still a young group.
Miami wasn't the mess the Cavs are now in their final season before the decision, but they weren't exactly filled with a lot of talent either...
I'm not saying he's coming back, but I think if they land a high lottery pick, that could change a lot, and right now, they don't look like they are ever going to turn this around.
I haven't been watching much college hoops, who is emerging as the top pick? Is it still a combo of Wiggins, Parker, and Randle?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
I haven't been watching much college hoops, who is emerging as the top pick? Is it still a combo of Wiggins, Parker, and Randle?
Wiggins/Randle are still up there, but Parker and Embiid have been the 2 best players this year IMO.
Smart has been a bit disappointing (still a top10 guy though). Aaron Gordon would be an interesting name if we weren't so chock-full of undersized PFs.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
I'd trade everyone and every asset we could outside of Kyrie to get Wiggins because his potential is insane. Draft guys with superstar potential, not role players. You can sign vets to be role players.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186 |
Yea i would take wiggins over parker. Parker has been too inconsistent in acc play. I think gary harris and scott mcdermot will be good pros as well. I like pj harriston, but he has personal issues.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
From what I have read Joel Embiid is the guy who has the #1 pick locked down at this point.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Quote:
I'd trade everyone and every asset we could outside of Kyrie to get Wiggins because his potential is insane. Draft guys with superstar potential, not role players. You can sign vets to be role players.
Yeah, and role players should not be drafted with lotto picks, save that for the late first/2nd round, and like you said free agency..
Anyone hear Windy on with RBS? He mentioned a few GM replacement possibilities, one of them being an understudy of Danny Ferry's in ATL. GAH.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445 |
Quote:
I'd trade everyone and every asset we could outside of Kyrie to get Wiggins because his potential is insane. Draft guys with superstar potential, not role players. You can sign vets to be role players.
Who could we trade outside of Kyrie (and/or unprotected 1st round picks) to get Wiggins? The rest of the team isn't worth Wiggins. If you want an early pick, we're going to have to do it the old fashioned way. Start by playing Bennett 48 a night.
edit: alright, I couldn't even read that with a straight face. Make it 36 a night
Last edited by hasugopher; 02/07/14 03:52 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Quote:
If you want an early pick, we're going to have to do it the old fashioned way. Start by playing Bennett 48 a night.
At point guard.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
Quote:
If you want an early pick, we're going to have to do it the old fashioned way. Start by playing Bennett 48 a night.
At point guard.
hey, I know you are both joking, but would that really be such a bad idea? it'd at least get him in shape and it's not like we can lose in much more embarrassing fashion than what has been done recently.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186 |
Yea thats what most mocks have at 1. Kansas should win this year with no problem. That team is loaded with nba talent.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445 |
I wasn't joking........
well the 48 minutes a night part was.
But definitely play him more. See if he develops. See if he gives a spark to the team. Get a better idea of what you have for the future.
The more sinister reason is to help the tank and get a top 3 pick in a loaded draft, but that doesn't preclude the reasons above.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
I think Bennett's looked improved in the last couple games. Looks like he's dropped a few pounds too.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cavs and NBA Thread
|
|
