DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum HC search part deuce

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I'm the kind of guy that watches the ENTIRE NFL Draft...I eat it up. Love it all.

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Oh ya! Best 3 days of the year...

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I'm the kind of guy that watches the ENTIRE NFL Draft...

I eat it up. Love it all. It helps when you're teams good. But hurts because, well, they suck...

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I usually just watch the first five picks (which 99% of the time is a Browns pick) and then I tune the draft out and pay attention to a tracker to see when the Browns draft next - then retune back in.

Although I value and think high on Mike Mayock and his views/opinions/etc - I can't listen to the man talk constantly for hours and hours. it makes me haha

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“There’s nothing that, and you all have every right to write it, that galls me more to read on Monday mornings, ‘Same old Browns.’ That’s not what we’re all about and that’s not what we came here for.” – Browns owner Jimmy Haslam on Dec. 30, 2013

The perception locally and nationally remains – the Cleveland Browns are a dysfunctional circus – hence another round of cheap shots lobbed at the team over the last 2 weeks since the firing of head coach Rob Chudzinski after just 1 year on the job.

Fair or not, perception is reality.

The Chudzinski firing and coaching search that has followed – led by Haslam, CEO Joe Banner and general manager Michael Lombardi – has done little to dispel it.

Aside from the head coach, Banner has been tabbed to do the talking for the team when the waters get rough allowing Lombardi to be rarely seen and heard from.

The “collaborative effort” narrative that was perpetuated throughout Berea when it came to personnel was more than just lip service or a way to dodge accountability within the front office.

The fact of the matter is that Chudzinski was given significant input on the personnel side in 2013.

Brandon Weeden winning the quarterback competition was completely Chudzinski’s and offensive coordinator Norv Turner’s call. Sources have told 92.3 The Fan that the front office preferred Brian Hoyer, who was relegated to throwing third string reps all offseason and during camp, but they supported Chudzinski’s decision.

Weeden rewarded Chud by laying eggs in his first 2 starts and a sprained thumb at Baltimore gave the Browns the perfect eject button. Hoyer piqued everybody’s interest with competent starts at Minnesota and vs. the Bengals before a torn ACL in the first quarter vs. the Bills ended his season. A pair of lousy starts following Hoyer’s injury earned Weeden the bench.

The Trent Richardson trade – Banner did not want to make the move without the blessing of Chudzinski, who along with Turner signed off on dealing the running back. So Banner proceeded to procure the Colts’ 2014 first round pick and bear the wrath of media and fans.

Hindsight being 20-20, the deal appears to be among the best that the franchise has made since returning in 1999.

Chudzinski and Turner suggested that Willis McGahee replace Richardson in the backfield and so the front office signed the 32-year old running back, who ran like he needed a walker or wheelchair to aid him.

Chudzinski continued to play McGahee over youngster Bobby Rainey and when the roster got tight after week 7, Chudzinski suggested cutting Rainey, who had carried just 13 times for 34 yards and so the front office agreed. Rainey went to Tampa Bay and exploded, including a pair of 100-yard games and 5 touchdowns, leaving fans directing anger towards Banner and Lombardi for letting him go.

Jason Campbell was reeling in December. Crushing last second losses to Jacksonville and New England were too much for the veteran to bear but there was no better option to start other than Weeden, and so Chudzinski stuck with Campbell.

Campbell and the Browns finished with a franchise worst to end a season 7-game losing streak.

The bottom line is that Chudzinski was a convenient scapegoat for an angry owner who expected better than a 4-12 season.

Losing 11 of 12 with a roster that boasted 5 Pro Bowlers and 5 AP All Pros combined with the personnel input that Chudzinski was given, Banner or Lombardi did not defend him or protest Haslam’s desire for a change.

Chudzinski was held accountable.

The problem now is the Browns plan to replace him has landed them in a ditch – or so it seems.

The latest coaching search, which has seen their presumptive favorite Josh McDaniels already turn them down – a la Chip Kelly a year ago – has forced them to give a third interview in 12 months to Ken Whisenhunt, who left their second meeting last January after bristling at the notion that the front office would have input regarding the coaching staff.

With all do respect to Adam Gase, Dan Quinn, and Ben McAdoo, they inspire as much hope amongst a desperate fan base as the apocalypse does regarding the future of humanity.

There apparently is not harmony in the personnel department either, which needs to be resolved – and soon.

Rumors of discord upstairs have spread like a forest fire since mid-December. Considering the amount of salary cap space and draft picks the team enters the offseason, beyond healthy debate, the personnel department must be on the same page when it comes to the direction of the team, or the coach won’t even matter.

If the use of this year’s assets produces the same results as they did in 2013, the personnel department will be next to be held accountable by an impatient Haslam, who came to town preaching the same mantra as the 6-time Super Bowl champion Pittsburgh Steelers – stability.

Stability didn’t last 12 months.

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The Trent Richardson trade – Banner did not want to make the move without the blessing of Chudzinski, who along with Turner signed off on dealing the running back. So Banner proceeded to procure the Colts’ 2014 first round pick and bear the wrath of media and fans.

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Chudzinski continued to play McGahee over youngster Bobby Rainey and when the roster got tight after week 7, Chudzinski suggested cutting Rainey, who had carried just 13 times for 34 yards and so the front office agreed. Rainey went to Tampa Bay and exploded, including a pair of 100-yard games and 5 touchdowns, leaving fans directing anger towards Banner and Lombardi for letting him go.

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Yes. Fozzy even should have warranted more game time/reps. Chud was even stupid enough to allow Norv to continue running sweeps/toss plays with Willis . I think this bad decision was on Chud more so than Banner/Lombardi.

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Brandon Weeden winning the quarterback competition was completely Chudzinski’s and offensive coordinator Norv Turner’s call. Sources have told 92.3 The Fan that the front office preferred Brian Hoyer, who was relegated to throwing third string reps all offseason and during camp, but they supported Chudzinski’s decision.

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The bottom line is that Chudzinski was a convenient scapegoat for an angry owner who expected better than a 4-12 season.

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j/c

I'm surprised no one mentioned Kliff Kingsbury as a potential HC candidate.

Kingsbury on Manziel: 'I would take him with first pick' in NFL Draft

Kliff Kingsbury (born August 9, 1979) is an American football coach and former college and professional quarterback. He is currently the head coach of the Texas Tech Red Raiders football program, where he played from 1998–2002.

Prior to being named head coach of the Red Raiders, Kingsbury was the offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach with the Texas A&M Aggies, coaching Heisman Trophy winner Johnny Manziel during the 2012 season. Kingsbury began his coaching career as an assistant with the Houston Cougars from 2008-2011.

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Am I the only one who has difficulties believing this statement? I doubt if Norv levied to keep Trent, it wouldn't have made a difference and same goes with Chud... Lombardi, our so-called GM, probably doesn't even have much "say-so" or whatever.

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Am I the only one who has difficulties believing this statement? I doubt if Norv levied to keep Trent, it wouldn't have made a difference and same goes with Chud... Lombardi, our so-called GM, probably doesn't even have much "say-so" or whatever.

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It all depends on which media personal you let influence your decision. Some media personal write material stating an agenda purely to attract readers. Today's internet writers get away with posting opinions as truths...accountability zero!

Daryl, author above in my post, is not without fault. He managed to throw a few.

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You mean people shouldn't apologize on how they feel or what they thought based on a couple of articles?

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j/c

I'm surprised no one mentioned Kliff Kingsbury as a potential HC candidate.

Kingsbury on Manziel: 'I would take him with first pick' in NFL Draft

Kliff Kingsbury (born August 9, 1979) is an American football coach and former college and professional quarterback. He is currently the head coach of the Texas Tech Red Raiders football program, where he played from 1998–2002.

Prior to being named head coach of the Red Raiders, Kingsbury was the offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach with the Texas A&M Aggies, coaching Heisman Trophy winner Johnny Manziel during the 2012 season. Kingsbury began his coaching career as an assistant with the Houston Cougars from 2008-2011.

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Well... that would be one heck of a bold move, I'll give you that much.. and Haslam said he wants to be bold.

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Kingsbury has what, 10 years of playing experience between the NFL (as a back-up) and Canada, 2 years as a college OC and 1 year as HC... that's a solid resume.

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I think your post is very fair and the question was a good one to ask. I've pretty much written Moby Dick below, sorry, I had a lot of thoughts. The great thing about this is that while writing it, I did a little research and found a few things I've read (on here or other sites) to be inconsistent. I've removed those from my response because I'm not convinced on what is accurate either way.

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I read your entire post. It was very articulate and level-headed. I really like how politel you were while presenting your argument. You made valid points.

We disagree, but I love that type of debate. Nice job.

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I said it before you did. not smiley face again.. I was making fun of his resume, as I'm fairly sure you were too... Sorry, should have used purple.

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Vers, you love to point out all the good things this FO did...the TRich trade, trading up in this years draft, etc. You are 100% right. They've done some good things. They've also done some bad things. It has been reported that Banner and Lombardi have created a toxic environment in Berea filled with mistrust. Hell, Haslam has had to become so hands on because he is losing confidence in these guys. You have to look at the whole picture.

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This article should help clear a few things...

Browns Coaching Search Doing Little To Improve Team’s Image Problem By DARYL RUITER, 92.3 The Fan Browns Beat Reporter

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This article will largely be ignored. If not, it will be dismissed. After all, we don't want facts to get in the way of a good bash.

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I am defending them because I feel people are picking and choosing what to concentrate on and are being unfair. I also believe it is too early to deem them as failures.

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I think your post is very fair and the question was a good one to ask. I've pretty much written Moby Dick below, sorry, I had a lot of thoughts. The great thing about this is that while writing it, I did a little research and found a few things I've read (on here or other sites) to be inconsistent. I've removed those from my response because I'm not convinced on what is accurate either way.

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I read your entire post. It was very articulate and level-headed. I really like how politel you were while presenting your argument. You made valid points.

We disagree, but I love that type of debate. Nice job.

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I also believe it is too early to deem them as failures.

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We do that with every draft pick.... the day after the Draft.
Why should the guys drafting them be afforded anything different??


In a less tongue-in-cheek response - they perhaps can't be called failures, yet, but they sure can't be called a success, either. One could easily construct an argument to question whether the word "competent" could even be used.

The Richardson deal is about the only positive I can think of with these guys, and there's a pretty good chance that it is simply a matter of a blind squirrel finding a nut. Not too many positives besides that to look at. Most positives prior to now were the hiring of Chud, Norv, and Horton.... and that is suddenly now a negative.


I just listen to the words they use when searching for coaches and know that they aren't necessarily about what I'd like them to be about. Last year it was about "making a splash", this year it is "being bold". Last I checked, those were buzzwords used in marketing and not the sort of thing you say to describe your search for someone to hire. It smacks heavily of decision making being driven by popular opinion and buzz meters rather than a solid football plan to build a team. It stands to reason though - these aren't football people, they're numbers people.

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Things are too one-sided and I don't like one-sided arguments.

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The information recently is one-sided because it's a by-product of what they FO has done.

They fired a head coach THEY hired after one year when they preached continuity and "getting it right". They've now created a culture where inside the NFL, there is mistrust with what our FO is doing. But hey, they could ultimately be right about CHUD... time will tell.

But to be fair to the stuff I know you liked:

It was one-sided when Haslem bought the team and Lerner was out. Everyone loved it.
It was one-sided when Chud was announced along-side his super coordinators in Norv and Ray. Everyone loved it.
It was one-sided when Hoyer won just two games against MIN and CIN. Everyone loved it.

My point is you don't like it being one-sided NOW because you have fully bought into to the new regime and the recent news goes against that grain and poster have responded to it. Sorry to say this, but you were doing just fine with "one-sided arguments" when it suited what you liked. You can say that you are skeptical about the FO and you will give them three years, etc, but most know you're rooting for them because they're the regime that booted Holmgren, Heckert, and Shurmur....the former regime that booted Mangini. You can call this BS or whatever, but I think you really hope for some sort of retribution or something. I'll just get that out in the air.

But anyways...it's one-sided now because it should be. They've messed up....royally. But conversely, it should be one-sided when they do the right thing, which I hope they do in the long run. If not, we'll have another reboot and posters and choose sides of what is too one-sided" or not.