|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
no offense, but did you even read your own link?
megatron, the best WR, isn't even the best at route running. the article clearly states that,
Roddy white has great hands, didn't even mention the route running.
last year leading receiver: megatron.
this year leading receiver: Josh Gordon.
both not masterful route runners.
and i'm going to say it again: did you even read your own link?
at the bottom, he clearly states the situation WR are in during college. they learn their route running craft in the NFL, and the ones that get good at it are the best...in the NFL.
which is what CHS just finish saying the entire time. jesus man...you argued all that just to end up agreeing with CHS opinion. good job.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
How much did you read?
You guys kill me. Route running isn't important. You two almost always hijack every thread w/your know it all attitudes. Your arguments are illogical.
Route running isn't important. Okay.
Back to ignore.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
did you read anything i just said?
whatever dude. you act like a baby whenever somebody disagree's with you. keep me on ignore.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,934
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,934 |
Vers .... would you agree that route running is important in differing degrees in different offenses?
Would you agree that, overall, route running is more important in the NFL than in college, especially in certain college offense?
Would you agree that certain NFL offenses ..... like a more traditional WCO offense, require tighter route running because the ball can often come out before the break of the route, requiring precision in those routes, where other offenses have more "see it and throw it" built in?
Some offenses require precision route running on every down, and others do not.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 998
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 998 |
Quote:
How much did you read?
You guys kill me. Route running isn't important. You two almost always hijack every thread w/your know it all attitudes. Your arguments are illogical.
Route running isn't important. Okay.
Back to ignore.
What is wrong with you man? Are you so concerned with being smart and winning an argument that you honestly don't understand what these guys are trying to say?
There hasn't been one person that says route running isn't important. No one is saying that it isn't needed.
They are simply saying that route running in prospects is not that important. Route running can be taught. However, speed, size, and agility CAN'T be taught.
No before you go and freak out again, this does not mean that anyone that is fast and has size in college is going to be a good NFL WR. However, if you have these two prospects:
1) 6'4", 225 lbs, 4.40 40 yard dash, 44 inch vert, glue for hands, lazy route runner that played in a vertical offense
2) 5'10", 190 lbs, 4.75 40 yard dash, 38 inch vert, pretty good hands, best route runner in all of college football history
Just because prospect 1 ran crappy routes doesn't mean he's going to be bad. He probably just used his athletic ability to be great in college. Doesn't mean he'll suck in the pro's, he can learn to run routes.
Prospect 2 might be good in the NFL, but will probably have trouble getting separation. Might be able to start, but probably won't put up huge numbers.
Sometimes, athletic ability will win out. Look at Megatron. No one is saying route running is not important. But in a prospect, a lot of other things matter more.
Wise words spoken by sages
From SkyTel to BlackBerry pagers
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,069
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,069 |
Quote:
Steve, you know I respect your football knowledge, but I have to disagree w/you on Carr.
I would not touch him w/a ten foot pole.
The guy gets too nervous when pressured, His footwork falls apart and he becomes wildly inaccurate. He is not a gamer. He is not a leader. He is a wuss.
Reminds me of Timid and his brother. No thanks.
Watched Carr for four years.
Never, ever have I ever considered him as a possible quarterback of the Browns.
When guys get rattled as easily, and entirely, as he does I don't give them a second thought.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,431
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,431 |
Quote:
I guess my point is that we have Gordon, who is an outstanding athlete and is our number one WR. We also have Jordan who is a very good receiver. What we need is a number 2 WR who is smart, runs good routes, gets open, catches the ball well, and converts third downs.
I thought we had that in Bess. I had no idea that he turned into a doper and head case. I think we can find the type of guy we need outside of rounds 1 and 2.
Again, I do understand that WR is the position of choice w/most Brown's fans over the years. I am simply stating my opinion.
I agree with that. We don't need another superstar on the other side. We need what you said, a solid #2 guy...a guy who runs crisp routes, has decent enough speed, and can catch. You can find those guys throughout the draft, and even UDFA....lot's of small school prospects who can fill the bill.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 20,016
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 20,016 |
But I think there is something else that may need to be considered here....."Gordon Insurance."
What happens if he gets in trouble again? Then we have Jordan Cameron and a #2-level WR? I'm not fully advocating taking a WR in the first or seconds rounds, perhaps it can be done in FA if the price is right, but it would be nice to have that fallback with someone that COULD be #1 WR talent just in case.
I hate to say "just in case" for Gordon....but you never really know.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Quote:
Quote:
Steve, you know I respect your football knowledge, but I have to disagree w/you on Carr.
I would not touch him w/a ten foot pole.
The guy gets too nervous when pressured, His footwork falls apart and he becomes wildly inaccurate. He is not a gamer. He is not a leader. He is a wuss.
Reminds me of Timid and his brother. No thanks.
Watched Carr for four years.
Never, ever have I ever considered him as a possible quarterback of the Browns.
When guys get rattled as easily, and entirely, as he does I don't give them a second thought.
Yeah I see that I'm the minority opinion on this one for sure (that he's good, not that he's "my guy").
It doesn't matter, though. He's probably going #3 to the Jags anyways.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Quote:
Would you agree that, overall, route running is more important in the NFL than in college, especially in certain college offense?
Of course, and that is exactly the point that Mourg made in the other thread and I agreed with.
I am not going to argue about this any further, but I know for a fact that NFL coaches say that WRs not learning how to run good routes is a major, major problem for them in the NFL. Furthermore, learning to be a good route runner is not as easy as you may think. Precise route running that gets you open is a skill. You can be one of the fastest men in the world, but you won't get open very much if you can't run good routes. Rounding off your routes, which is what many of these guys do, will actually make a guy way, way slower than someone who can get in and out of his cuts quickly.
Sometimes, it astounds me as to what statements guys jump on. And then, you get all up in arms about it. Not you, YTown...........just the other guys that I should know better than to even have a dialogue with.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Quote:
Yeah I see that I'm the minority opinion on this one for sure (that he's good, not that he's "my guy").
It doesn't matter, though. He's probably going #3 to the Jags anyways.
It's okay to be in the minority, Steve. Heck, that usually means you will end up being right. 
If you think the guy is going to be good, argue your position w/fervor. You are a guy who has proven yourself to have a good grasp of evaluating talent. I will also remember what you say about Carr and if you are right, I will give you huge props for saying so. If you're wrong, I won't get on your case because you don't act all-knowing.
I hope you don't mind me debating you, though????
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
A co-worker of mine once said "Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling a pig in the mud... Eventually, you realize the pig likes it."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,557
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,557 |
Assuming players have good hands, A 4.6 receiver can have a long pro bowl filled career if he is a good route runner. A 4.6 receiver that runs sloppy routes will never make the first cut or may never even get a shot at a roster spot. 4.3 sloppy route runner will go in the 4th and given a chance while a 4.3 excellent route runner will go top 5.
Most think the kid from Vandy is gonna be a 4.6 guy and he is still projected late first to early 2nd.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,934
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,934 |
Quote:
Quote:
Would you agree that, overall, route running is more important in the NFL than in college, especially in certain college offense?
Of course, and that is exactly the point that Mourg made in the other thread and I agreed with.
I am not going to argue about this any further, but I know for a fact that NFL coaches say that WRs not learning how to run good routes is a major, major problem for them in the NFL. Furthermore, learning to be a good route runner is not as easy as you may think. Precise route running that gets you open is a skill. You can be one of the fastest men in the world, but you won't get open very much if you can't run good routes. Rounding off your routes, which is what many of these guys do, will actually make a guy way, way slower than someone who can get in and out of his cuts quickly.
Sometimes, it astounds me as to what statements guys jump on. And then, you get all up in arms about it. Not you, YTown...........just the other guys that I should know better than to even have a dialogue with.
Man, who was that late round WR we had a few years ago who was like 6'4", and ran a 4.3 40 ...... and couldn't learn a route to save his life and/or career? Oh year .... Carlton Mitchell. He was a beast in shorts .... but couldn't run a route at all. He was all over the place on the field. It was painful to watch.
He was the opposite example from Robiske ..... a guy with great size and speed, and decent enough hands .... but who couldn't figure out where to be on any given play to save his life.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
I thought it was his hands that sucked and that's why he went out and bought his own jugs machine?
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
thats what i thought to. he wasn't good at basic WR stuff...ya know, like actually catching.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Would you agree that, overall, route running is more important in the NFL than in college, especially in certain college offense?
Of course.. with each level you go up in sports (youth to high school, high school to small college, small college to major college, major college to pros, pros to superstar) the details become more important because it becomes harder and harder to succeed on pure athleticism alone...
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,934
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,934 |
I remember him being an OK catcher. He wasn't spectacular ..... but he wasn't Bess awful.
He just couldn't learn the playbook. That was his downfall as I recall.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Don't forget............Hubbard? What was his first name? Paul? Paul Hubbard? Remember how high people were on him because of his great size and speed?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,869
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,869 |
Quote:
Don't forget............Hubbard? What was his first name? Paul? Paul Hubbard? Remember how high people were on him because of his great size and speed?
haha yeah Paul Hubbard.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 College All-Star Game Discussion
|
|
