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I have 2 tanks - a 500 gallon tank for the house, and a 125 gallon tank for the pole barn.
12-5-13 house tank filled at $1.82 per gallon.
12-13-13 barn tank filled at $2.09 per gallon.
1-15-14 house tank filled again at $2.46 per gallon.
1-20-14 sis in law had their tank filled at $2.55 per gallon.
1-21-14 propane was $2.79 per gallon (I went in to pay our bill - well, part of our bill. The guy told me it will continue rising as well. )
This is crazy!!
Now, granted, our tanks aren't empty when they come, but the price increase is just killing me. (we have hot water heat. 4 zones in the house. Warmest one is set at 65 - that's my daughter's room and the other bedroom upstairs. Another "zone" is the upstairs family room/rec room set at 62, another zone is my bedroom and the dining room set at 61, and the last zone is the living room and kitchen, set at 64.
My last fill up was $752 for basically 41 days of heat and hot water for the house, and obviously, I don't over heat our house.
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Seems like something is wrong. It shouldn't be that much.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Outside wood burner time. Having it outside results in not having to deal with the morons with your home insurance. My Mom has one. Heats her house and water and it's fantastic.
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I heard this morning that most of the midwest has a supply shortage for propane do to so much usage this winter and they are having to ship it in from other parts of the country which is driving up the prices.
#gmstrong
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A small part of it, according to the company that fills our tanks, is the Lima foundry is shut down for "maintenance",, as is a plant in Toledo (only running at 50%). But, the biggest part of the shortage is based on companies exporting the propane because they can make more money shipping it out. They also said they are getting propane shipments from as far away as 1000 miles. This particular supplier has a max. purchase of 200 gallons now. When I was there, the guy in front of me was wanting his 1000 gallon tank filled. He was told "200 gallons is all we can do." Supply and demand. You all know how that works, as do I. I'm going to be checking into a geothermal system. I have a limited understanding of that right now. I'll also be looking into an outdoor wood burner. Wood is cheap - especially if you can do the cutting and splitting yourself. As with all things - follow the money. Might be time to invest (if I ever have discretionary income again) in propane. 
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A friend of mine in Perrysburg did geothermal…said the upfront cost was pricey but he's happy with the decision.
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Quote:
A friend of mine in Perrysburg did geothermal…said the upfront cost was pricey but he's happy with the decision.
I have several friends that did that.........they built new homes and went geothermal. They loved it when they did it, aside from the upfront costs......but as one of them just told me "heck, this makes our payback time even shorter."
It is what it is: pay it now, or pay it later.
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It's been a long time since I lived up North but that seems very high. What is your insulation, multi-pane windows, doors, air leaks, etc situation?
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Totally off the grid is the way. Imagine no utility bills and fresh veggies. http://www.dreamgreenhomes.com/plans/earthship.htmEarthships have been built in many countries and many climates around the world.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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I know so little about this so I'll just ask a question, can you just drill for natural gas and run that way?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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My wifes Uncle has a wood burner. He set it up between the house and the barn and uses it to heat both buildings. Works great. he goes through a heck of a lot of word. But he loves it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Solid concepts, terrible aesthetics. Not to get away from the topic of propane, but as for the fresh veggies thing, however, I'm working on that for my home right now. I'm in the beginning stages of building a PVC hydroponics rig similar to this one; actually, building two of them. A $20 water pump, a $10 air pump, a $5 air stone, and a bunch of cheap PVC and two 4' flourescent fixtures with full spectrum bulbs will go a long way. I plan to run string to the lower course of PVC for climbing plants, and I will be trying tomatoes, herbs, and other veggies. Looking at adding a flood table later on to enable me to do year-round strawberries and leaf lettuce.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Natural gas heat. 4300 square foot house and $81.00 a month on the budget. We keep it set between 68 and 70. 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Quote:
I know so little about this so I'll just ask a question, can you just drill for natural gas and run that way?
You may have surface rights to your property but not the mineral rights for the natural gas that may or may not lie beneath. That would be the first step, if your intention is to drill for natural gas. You need to prove you have the mineral rights for your land before drilling. Then drilling permits are required, which are only given out to experienced drilling companies.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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Quote:
Solid concepts, terrible aesthetics.
Not to get away from the topic of propane, but as for the fresh veggies thing, however, I'm working on that for my home right now. I'm in the beginning stages of building a PVC hydroponics rig similar to this one; actually, building two of them. A $20 water pump, a $10 air pump, a $5 air stone, and a bunch of cheap PVC and two 4' flourescent fixtures with full spectrum bulbs will go a long way.
I plan to run string to the lower course of PVC for climbing plants, and I will be trying tomatoes, herbs, and other veggies. Looking at adding a flood table later on to enable me to do year-round strawberries and leaf lettuce.
They are practical and very cheap to fabricate. The shape (aesthetics) usually take on the what the enviroment demands. Roofs that shed more or less water. Solar windows that allow more or less thermal energy. Celing vents to shed more or less heat. Structures that can survive brush fires, earthquakes, hurricanes and tornado's much better then coventional stick building. It's all about practicability and sustainable living. A person could actually live off their 401k, SS, or savings when they don't have gas, elec. and water bills. Some wouldn't even need to work anymore. How novel. But that really PO's the energy companies, who have all the clout to put on local permitting governments to stop people from building them.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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Quote:
It's been a long time since I lived up North but that seems very high. What is your insulation,
apparently not enough.Quote:
multi-pane windows,
yes. I replaced the main floor windows ......man, now that I think about it, I bet it was 10 or so years ago. But, we don't have any drafts on the main floor. My daughters room (upstairs) could use new windows. She has some that face west, and they aren't the best...Quote:
doors, air leaks, etc situation?
I'm going to look into a new water heater as well. The one we have is probably 23 years old. I know it's not as efficient as a new one would be, so that might help some.
285 gallons of propane for the house, for 41 days. That's about what it's been in the 14 years we've lived here. For the winter months, that is. Come March or so, we'll get filled up and not need propane til around October.
I guess it's just sticker shock to go from $1.82 per gallon on Dec. 5th to todays price of $2.79 a gallon.
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They had a story on WTOL tonight about the propane shortage. It looks pretty scary with the rationing. We had propane for the first 5 years we lived here, then switched to natural gas. They used to jack the prices up quite a bit in the winter months even back then (15-20 years ago).
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Yeah, I've been following it. 30 states are in a similar position right now. It sucks. I'd love to raise MY prices, but I don't have a captive customer base.
As it is, we have to stay relatively warm. Thank God I was raised in a cold house. 64 degrees is toasty for me. My wife? Not so much. My daughter? She walks around barefoot and in shorts most of the time. She got my blood. However, she has an electric radiator heater in her bedroom. She was cranking that up. I'd go to wake her up in the morning, and it would be 78-79 degrees in her bedroom - and she's sleeping in shorts and a t-shirt with her covers on the floor.
I used to despise that..........but then I realized the thermostat for the bedroom zones upstairs was in her room. So, with the electric radiator (oil filled) in her room running, it was warm enough to not have the hot water heat going.
As it is, she turns it on and when I go to bed, I go upstairs and turn it down. Keeps her room at 67, and keeps the hot water heat off for that zone.
I can't switch to natural gas, as I live in the country with no gas lines anywhere near me.
14 + years ago, when I lived in town - my gas bill would run about $20 a month in the winter. And that was for hot water primarily, as I had a wood burning stove in a back room, with a vent and fan mounted in the ceiling above the stove, ducted to the rest of the house. That was my heat for the most part. Often times if I wasn't careful with watching the wood burner, I'd end up opening windows to cool it down - 83 degrees was too hot for me.
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I was doing a job down in TN, rural area, Carthage (Peen may know the area). Anyway, there was/is a family that did some work for us and at one time did not have natural gas running to their homes and strictly ran on propane. The family made a deal with the local utilities to dig and run their own gas lines if the county would hook it up at the main lines. The county agreed. These folks are now multi-millionaires and running gas and water lines for the county and all surrounding areas.
Sounds like you have a possible opportunity. Just a thought.
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I was talking to my mom earlier today, and she said something about a huge shortage of propane, and they are asking people to really conserve as much as possible, because they may be unable to provide for the current demand.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I have 2 homes that I buy propane for.I had both tanks filled on November 25th.Since this thread got started,I checked to see how much mine went up and looking at the delivery receipts,for one house I paid $2.16 a gallon and the other I paid $2.59 a gallon.
Guess who is getting a phone call this morning?
Glad this thread was started or I never would have looked at the price per gallon,I just paid the bills.They left one house and went straight to the other to deliver.The propane came from the same truck for both homes so how can the price be different?Someone will be getting an ass chewing today.
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I would consider installing an electric hot water tank to curb some propane usage. Electric is high , but not as expensive as propane.
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Quote:
Guess who is getting a phone call this morning?
Well I called them and even though the propane came from the same truck,delivered not 20 minutes apart,they told me the reason one house costs more per gallon than the other is one tank is smaller.
That should be against the law.Isn't that considered price gouging?Does anyone know if that's even legal and who I would call to report it if it isn't?I'm really kind of ticked off about it.
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I would definitely contact the PUCO or somebody about that one. That sounds like you are getting ripped off, for sure.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Not necessarily.
If they have a price adjustment for a larger order, then it could be perfectly normal, and legal.
For example ....... buy 100 gammons of fuel and it costs $3.00/gallon, but buy 101 or more gallons, and you get a price break to $2.95/gallon.
Many businesses have such programs.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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If they are giving a price break for purchasing a larger volume being bought for one house, that is fine. If they are charging different rates based upon tank capacity, that is not fine. If the volume purchased for each house was the same, but the rates were different... that is definitely not fine in any way at all.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Maybe they worded it crudely.
I have no way of knowing for sure, but merely offered one possible, and plausible explanation.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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j/c
Went to get a grill tank filled today. Just chatting with the propane company......grill tanks were $10 on Monday, $15 on Tuesday, and $20 today.
Asked about the price for house tanks - now, remember:
12-5-13 it was $1.82.
1-20-14 it was $2.55
1-21-14 it was $2.79 (the most they'd supply was 200 gallons)
Today, 1-24-14 the price is $3.59 per gallon, with a maximum delivery of 100 gallons.
They ran out yesterday, but 2 loads came in in the late afternoon. From MONTANA!
(no, I didn't get or need any for the house, yet)
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I'm with you. If they're giving volume discounts, he should get the discount on his entire order (add the orders for the two houses together).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Since you mentioned you were going to look at a new water heater, you may want to check into the Tankless water heaters. They mount underneath or on a wall and provide hot water without having to maintain the temperature all day long. Saves on fuel whichever way you have it set up (electric or gas). Saves on space as well.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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+1 to that. I *love* my tankless system. If I did it over, however, I would have ponied up the little extra for a higher capacity unit. Mine is rated for only 1 major use at a time, I would step up to a "family" unit that can handle two or more major uses.
The main difference is flow rate of the hot water. It generally hasn't been an issue so far as I've lived alone since buying it, but it easily could be in the future as my girlfriend will be moving in with me soon.
Browns is the Browns
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Quote:
but it easily could be in the future as my girlfriend will be moving in with me soon.
FYI, you don't want the water too hot as it will melt the plastic.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
+1 to that. I *love* my tankless system. If I did it over, however, I would have ponied up the little extra for a higher capacity unit. Mine is rated for only 1 major use at a time, I would step up to a "family" unit that can handle two or more major uses.
The main difference is flow rate of the hot water. It generally hasn't been an issue so far as I've lived alone since buying it, but it easily could be in the future as my girlfriend will be moving in with me soon.
They sell electric tankless units for point of service. They can be installed at the bathtub/shower, under a bathroom sink, etc. You just cap off the hot water run, and split the cold water run to that particular room, and run one "new" water line through the smaller tankless unit. Might be something to look into. It would relieve some stress on your main system, while ensuring immediate hot water to your bathroom.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Propane. Ouch!
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