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Is it possible for Brown's fans to change course and support this guy?
Do you think we have a choice?
Can you see a way where there is a major paradigm shift on this board? Where many of you decide it would be better to support Banner and give him a shot to succeed? I'm not saying Im a supporter, but I do realize what a few others of you do.
That we really don't have a choice
We are all much better off if we allow him to continue and do his job. If we continue to obsess with him failing, then we are doing all the rest of the league, and the media, a favor.
I think Brown's fans should fight the media -- Not Haslam and Banner. The media is really running the Browns into the ground. Its seems that is who we should be p*&%ed at.
Right now the Browns are dominating the media. Ol' saying... negative publicity is better than none at all. If they nail the hire (Quinn?), and they get a high profile young QB, then all they've done is:
* Get a potentially valuable first rounder for Trent.
* Look to possibly correcting the coaching situation.
* Get a potential franchise QB
* Simply, have the future look of 6 pro bowlers, + plus, plus, plus
I'm starting to think the only reason why I am still badmouthing these guys is because the media is telling me to.
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~ Legend
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I don't see why he needs fan support to do his job correctly. But yeah if he gets wins then people will support him.
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The problem is Banner is clueless.
He has made one terrible decision after another.
He fired the best GM we have had with the Browns.
Hired the worst GM in the history of the Browns. The Lombardi hire has set the tone for what is know the mess the team is in.
Hired Chud. Which seemed like his best decision last year until he was fired at the end of the year.
Failed to bring in top flight talent in Free Agency in 2013. Now with this fiasco I do not hold out much hope for free agency in 2014.
Failed with the 2014 draft. Mingo was very average at best his 1st season. McFadden was a horrible pick. Armonty Bryant seems to be the only real hit.
Traded away Richardson after 2 games in the season. Which may work out in the long run but was a bad move considering the team had 0 viable backs after the trade. If they would have had a viable replacement I would include this move as a good move.
Banner and Lombardi must go. If Haslam would fire these 2 then maybe he can save face for himself and the franchise.
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Legend
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I didn't like his hiring in the first place, but I grew to appreciate his skills at setting up the franchise, getting a coach, helping to build a staff after they fired Pat Shurmer, kept a few pieces of his staff and did everything fairly quickly.
and as you point out, they did some pretty good stuff during the year.
But for me, all of that was erased by firing a first year staff when they knew damn well, there were a lot of holes to fill or upgrade on the roster.
He gets no free pass from me, but as you also point out, we're stuck with him.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Legend
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Did you really expect these guys to be rational?
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Bringing in Lombardi was a major red flag and a colossal blunder, inviting intense scrutiny and derision and casting a pall on every move and decision Banner has made or will make. While he may indeed make a decent decision now and again, he has saddled himself with an incompetent lackey who has done nothing in his career but meddle politically and fail as a personnel man, and is likely to destroy a once promising roster while continuing to sow dissension within the management/coaching team. Banner single handedly stacked this particular dung heap and once again, we the fans must suffer the consequences. While Banner may ultimately be capable, until Lombardi is fired he does not deserve our support.
JMHO
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Firing the gm that gave us Richardson and weeden in the first round is ok by me... To huge mistakes that thankfully we got a late first rounder back for....
<><
#gmstrong
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I don't think its fair to judge him on what he has done with this team, because it's still so early in his time with the team...
I love the Richardson trade. They identified a weakness, and an opportunity to get a mulligan. It's the best thing the team has done since everyone came in...
It just seems like his reputation has driven away potential candidates to coach this team, with this search and with last year's...
Other factors have played into it. Firing a guy after one year is right up there with any other reason...
Why Lombardi? Could he say with a straight face that was the best guy for the job?
As I said in another topic, I don't understand why the league set Jimmy up with this guy, we weren't in cap trouble. Tom Heckert took care of that during the previous regime....
I still want to see what happens with this draft, even more than who is hired as coach. I just don't understand the reasoning behind what this group is doing, and what the plan is going forward, I think that's fair.
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Legend
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Quote:
The problem is Banner is clueless.
He is not clueless. He might be doing the wrong thing, but he is not clueless.
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He fired the best GM we have had with the Browns.
I presume you are talking about Tom Heckert. The guy who drafted Brandon Weeden in the first round. That would have got most GMs fired, let alone a GM that was hired by a different owner.
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Hired the worst GM in the history of the Browns.
Based on one draft? I don't see how anyone can be better than Mangini.
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Hired Chud. Which seemed like his best decision last year until he was fired at the end of the year.
That is the biggest strike against Haslam/Banner. Either the hired the wrong guy. . . which is a huge mistake. Or they fired a guy on a whim. . . which is a huge mistake.
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Failed to bring in top flight talent in Free Agency in 2013.
We signed Paul Kruger and Desmond Bryant who were both among the highest rated free agents going into last off-season.
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Now with this fiasco I do not hold out much hope for free agency in 2014.
Money talks. Especially in the NFL were guys have to get the most money possible as soon as possible.
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Failed with the 2014 draft.
We know this after one season? Really? Didn't we know Mingo was super raw?
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Traded away Richardson after 2 games in the season. Which may work out in the long run but was a bad move considering the team had 0 viable backs after the trade. If they would have had a viable replacement I would include this move as a good move.
Wait, there are still people who don't think this was a good move? We got a first round pick for a player that is terrible.
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Quote:
He fired the best GM we have had with the Browns.
Assuming you mean Heckert. Funny, I haven't heard Heckert's name mentioned so far on teams looking for a new GM. What is really crazy! We hear Farmer's name mentioned for the Miami job. Didn't Banner hire Farmer?
Lucy, you got some 'splainin' to do!
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I guess I am in the minority. I dont havve a problem with most of the moves he has made. I dont expect anyone to hit 100% of the time though. I also dont really care what he looks like. Im sure if the folks mocking his looks posted pictures of themselves we could find some unflattering likenesses.
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I agree with this, Banner is not here to be popular or win a beauty contest. Those addressing his facial expressions are pretty low-brow. I personally do not give a crap what he looks like, this is meaningless. School-boy BS.
The TRich trade was simply too good to pass up, whether we had a replacement in hand or not. That was a good call. You could fault him, and Lombardi, for not getting somebody better than McGahee much earlier, but my belief is that somebody, likely Chud, told Banner that Willis would be "good enough".
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Quote:
I don't see why he needs fan support to do his job correctly. But yeah if he gets wins then people will support him.
I agree on both points.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Legend
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There are so many moving parts to a football organization that it's always easy to shift blame (or credit) whichever the case may be.... Just look at all of the previous threads.. if Banner was part of a successful Philly organization for a long time then if you like him, you give him credit for that, and if you don't, you claim that he really wasn't the guy making the decisions.. Lombardi has been a part of some head-scratching drafts, if you support the guy you say he wasn't really the guy who made those decisions..... if you don't you point to him and laugh... If it's a coach that had success somewhere and you don't like him, you say it's because he had great players and it wasn't about him... if you do like him you just point to his record... Same goes for draft picks.... and I'm not saying those things shouldn't be considered when determining how much you like or want a guy... but some people make it painfully obvious that they are just trying to satisfy their own preconceived notions when they try to deflect all credit away from a guy or place all blame on a guy....
I think Banners record here, to this point, is mixed... I think... check that... I KNOW, that he is going to be a part of two decisions in the next few months... new coach, new quarterback... if he gets those two decisions right, he will have been successful to this point.... if he gets them wrong, he will be just another name on a long list of failed FO people that have been through here in the last couple decades.
yebat' Putin
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2nd String
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Quote:
I agree with this, Banner is not here to be popular or win a beauty contest. Those addressing his facial expressions are pretty low-brow. I personally do not give a crap what he looks like, this is meaningless. School-boy BS.
The TRich trade was simply too good to pass up, whether we had a replacement in hand or not. That was a good call. You could fault him, and Lombardi, for not getting somebody better than McGahee much earlier, but my belief is that somebody, likely Chud, told Banner that Willis would be "good enough".
Strongly agree.... I'm also in what seems to be the minority.
I additionally am of the opinion that the media is sensationalizing the situation for their own benefit... and it really surprises me how many here fall for all of it...
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lol, some of the posts in here are so "this is how it is and there IS NO OTHER OPINION!!!"
After one season? So stupid.
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Legend
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Doesn't need fans except for tickets, overpriced concessions, and ego worship. Winning makes it all go away. Only way to cover tracks of bad decisions and poor handling. What we need is another letter. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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I guess my point is, do I have to like him in order to allow him the time to let this play out?
Should we allow Banner a year to let this play out?
If the answer is no, if you hate him so much that you can't shake it, then I understand. But, tell me if you think we have a choice in this matter? There is a chance, a chance, that a year from now we could be looking good.
If you think he deserves another year to see how his moves are playing out, then I think it would be best to just back off, a little, and act like fans. Cleveland Browns fans. I know it sounds cheeky and all, but that is what it comes down to.
The media, especially CBS, NFL network, NBC, Fox, and most effeminate blogers, have declared full out war against the Browns. Mostly, because they're too lazy to go out and do some real work, some real journalism.
These turkeys have caused me to reconsider my thinking and shift towards a certain martyr outlook. They overlook their own skeletons in the closet (if you work for one of them, we will not focus on our own people having multiple rape allegations, assault of school employees, domestic violence issues, drug use and subsequent arrests, calling people "retard" and the NFL "slave master" etc....).
None of that is worthy of focusing on. What is? Well, it looks like: "the Browns are such a joke, such a laughingstock." Yada, Yada...
If we don't have a choice with Banner, and I don't believe I do, then I will try to be positive and allow this to play out - until the next apparent/possible blunder.
50 years of anger, disappointment, and h*ll has given me a bit of patience and resilience.
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j/c I was not a fan of banner from the start nor Lombardi. I thought Lombardi was the worst possible person to bring in becasue of his drafting history either directly or by association. It's not pretty by any means. I don't know what to think of this FO. I think they have done some things well and have really dropped the ball on their feet. out of last years draft... Barkevious Mingo (No. 6 overall), 42 tackles 5 sacks 4 PD 4 STF Needs a lot of work might be average but not a PB LB. Horton kinda blasted him too: "Get stronger,'' said Horton. "Live in the weight room, which I’m sure he will, and also live in the playbook, which I know he will.'' http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/12/cleveland_browns_dc_ray_horton.htmlLeon McFadden (No. 68), played in 16 games started 2 with 19 tackles 1 PDEF jury out on this one. It doesn't help that We could have had the Honey Badger who had a awesome season until he got hurt. PFF graded Mathieu as the #2 DB in the NFL behind Revis... until he got hurt. Jamoris Slaughter (No. 175), released and signed to the PS after signing a 4 year contract. everyone knew he had an Achilles injury which no one ever comes back normal from. Armonty Bryant (No. 217) 12 taclkes 12 games played 2 sacks 1 stf- great pickup Garrett Gilkey (No. 227). played in 6 games started 1- who knows.. the T-Rich trade was brilliant trading picks last year for this year was brilliant hiring chud and the assistance coaches was brilliant. there is a ton of talent in that group the Bess trade looked to be a good trade. he just went wacko I thought signing Cambell was a good move as a backup Hoyer was a good signing Trading McCoy was a good move David Nelson signing was a good move, bad releasing him Trading for Dion Lewis was a good move esp since we only gave up Acho Letting Usama walk was a good move Letting Cribbs go was a great move resigning Greko was a good move MarQueis Gray was a good pickup Fozzy Whittaker good pickup Edwin Baker can be a gerat pickup I was against he Kruger and Bryant signing. I got blasted for that big time. I feel like I was right and wrong about this one. Drafting Mingo was terrible. I don't think he will ever be a ProBowl LB in the NFL. (I'm ok with being wrong on this) Drafting Slaughter was a bad move I thought letting Dawson walk was a bad idea letting Ventrone go was a bad idea Cutting fort and JMJ... not a fan Signing Chris Ownens was a bad idea didn't care about the Groves signing not happy about not signing Grimes I still don't understand what happened with Patterson- we whiffed on that one Idk what is going to happen with this team but the FO needs to be on the same page with the HC and the staff.
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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All Pro
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Quote:
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I don't see why he needs fan support to do his job correctly. But yeah if he gets wins then people will support him.
I agree on both points.
I don't care if we throw rocks and garbage at him while he rides into the stadium on a sedan chair as long as he brings us wins. I don't have to like him. I may very well not even want to like him. And the feeling may very well be mutual. Just win baby.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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Great stuff.
Thanks
I don't get to see many games, so I can't make a very good assessment of Mingo. Trying to get a read on him by this board is difficult. People are all over the place on this guy.
Last year I did see him play quite a bit at LSU. The more I saw, the less impressed I was. Django pretty much nailed the scouting report on him and I believe that so far he has been proven right. But, Def linemen, Ends, and Linebackers usually take a year or two before you know what you got. So, Mingo gets at least another year before it will be fair to judge.
When it comes to last years draft, I was really ticked we didn't trade out for picks this year. I hope I end up being wrong.
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Quote:
I was not a fan of banner from the start nor Lombardi. I thought Lombardi was the worst possible person to bring in becasue of his drafting history either directly or by association. It's not pretty by any means.
So far Banner gets a pass, just to soon to tell. I'm with you on Lombardi, don't like the guy, never have, I think he's a snake. Trouble seems to follow him. Everywhere he's been, rumors always start to flow. I think he leaks more info than a broken vessel. As far as the draft goes 2013, I think it was pretty much understood that we were gearing up for 2014. Still some good choices were made, I for one, like Mingo and think he will come on strong. As far as Slaughter goes, look where he was drafted, not like we pulled a genie and took him rd. #2.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Legend
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e is going to be a part of two decisions in the next few months... new coach, new quarterback... if he gets those two decisions right, he will have been successful to this point.... if he gets them wrong, he will be just another name on a long list of failed FO people that have been through here in the last couple decades.
That sounds like the truth.
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All Pro
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I think Brown's fans should fight the media -- Not Haslam and Banner. The media is really running the Browns into the ground. Its seems that is who we should be p*&%ed at.
The media doesn't have a win/loss record. The front office continues to run the team into the ground. The media just reports it.
Why get mad at a reporter for showing video of a dumpster fire? It makes more sense to be made at the guys throwing more trash bags onto the dumpster fire.
Hopefully, they got it right... this time. They whiffed big time on their first attempt.
I am not judging Chud. Last year, they judge Chud to be the future. They smiled, shook hands, and talked of change and growth. Eleven months later, they admit total failure and restart the process.
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Perhaps what Chud said and what Chud did was not in line with what was said during interviews?
Maybe they didn't fail but rather Chud couldn't deliver.
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Quote:
The media doesn't have a win/loss record. The front office continues to run the team into the ground.
Running in the ground? You mean Farmer backing down from a GM job and staying put in the toxic waste dump was a mistake? Funny the media hasn't bought to light this story much.
As for a win/loss record, man, I sure wish a watchdog group was form. Trust me if I had money and time I be all over it. Integrity is needed back in journalism.
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Legend
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We are getting mostly positive reactions to the Pettine hiring.
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Legend
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Quote:
he is going to be a part of two decisions in the next few months... new coach, new quarterback... if he gets those two decisions right, he will have been successful to this point.... if he gets them wrong, he will be just another name on a long list of failed FO people that have been through here in the last couple decades.
/thread.
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All Pro
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* Get a potentially valuable first rounder for Trent.
* Look to possibly correcting the coaching situation.
* Get a potential franchise QB
* Simply, have the future look of 6 pro bowlers, + plus, plus, plus
I think the FO has done SOME good things. I think every FO brought in since 1999 has tried to better the roster in some way.
Your bullet point 2 and 3 are basically the same thing reworded. The Browns have pro-bowl talent. Getting a 1st round pick for TRich was a good move. I like Mingo. I think he was a solid 1st round pick. The FO is doing SOME good things.
Part of the problem is the new regimes first big move was to replace the HC. They have been in power for 14 months and fired 2 HCs. If Pettine is unsuccessful, I don't see how Banner/Lombardi can get a third shot at finding a HC.
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Quote:
Quote:
e is going to be a part of two decisions in the next few months... new coach, new quarterback... if he gets those two decisions right, he will have been successful to this point.... if he gets them wrong, he will be just another name on a long list of failed FO people that have been through here in the last couple decades.
That sounds like the truth.
Yea, that's the point I tried to make to start the thread.
The bottom line is how does Pettine and the next QB do? How much do they improve over next fall, and what the future looks like? If both areas are going in a positive, encouraging direction then Banner comes off as a winner who weathered the storm and did it his way. The tough executive.
He'll never be totally loved, but if these two areas end up working out, and the "core" continues to improve, then the Browns are looking good. Jerry Rice picked Browns with his 3rd, 4th, and 5th picks yesterday. 3 Browns went in the first ten. Hey, I will guarantee you that if we get lucky with Pettine and the new QB, that another star will emerge from this years draft. There is a flippin boatload of future stars at running back and wide receiver in this draft.
Need to stop giggin him on his looks. He is who he is.
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I actually like Banner. I think he is shrewd. I think he is a tireless worker. I think he kept Philly in contention for years because of his great understanding of the cap, which led to who to keep and who to let go. I could care less that he isn't warm and fuzzy.
He has said this before and it is the truth...........he understands that people are going to be upset w/some of his moves, but all will be forgiven if we win.
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I might think Banner looks like a rat in that particular photo, but I don't hate the guy. I don't really trust that he is doing a good job yet, but the jury is still out.
I do like the way he commented on the Larry, Curly and Moe thing when introducing the new coach. That showed me that he can take criticism without melting down.
*** Refs*** Thanks for removing those posts. I don't like to get into pissing matches on the board. Also, my apologies to Nelson and anybody else I might have offended.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Legend
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*** Refs*** Thanks for removing those posts. I don't like to get into pissing matches on the board. Also, my apologies to Nelson and anybody else I might have offended.
You forgot to apologize to the rat for possibly offending him too. 
yebat' Putin
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Can you see a way where there is a major paradigm shift on this board? Where many of you decide it would be better to support Banner and give him a shot to succeed? I'm not saying Im a supporter, but I do realize what a few others of you do. Its called winning is the cure all.
Once we start winning everyone will lov....errr like him I don't think he's a lovable kind of guy...lol 
If he brings us footballs version of Money Ball - and it works. Great!
I don't see him as the big problem as long as he doesn't try to do all the football stuff - leave most of that to our new HC and Farmer.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Posts: 1,111
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,111 |
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I do like the way he commented on the Larry, Curly and Moe thing when introducing the new coach. That showed me that he can take criticism without melting down.
It's also P.R. 101. You take away their bullets before they can fire them at you. He brought it up first and made it a joke, taking the whole line of questioning off the table. It was a brilliant move and is used in advertising and marketing campaigns every day.
I just recently read a fascinating article on Tech Crunch that related this very concept with how Eminem, in the movie 8 Mile, won the final rap battle when he was the only white guy and the entire audience is black, going up against the reigning champion that the audience loves... and he destroy's him by flipping the script in his favor by using a whole slew of PR techniques to perfection.
I can't post the article here due to language, but i'd be happy to share it with anyone who is interested. Or you could just use the googles.
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Can you see a way where there is a major paradigm shift on this board? Where many of you decide it would be better to support Banner and give him a shot to succeed? I'm not saying Im a supporter, but I do realize what a few others of you do.
Its called winning is the cure all.
Once we start winning everyone will lov....errr like him I don't think he's a lovable kind of guy...lol
If he brings us footballs version of Money Ball - and it works. Great!
I don't see him as the big problem as long as he doesn't try to do all the football stuff - leave most of that to our new HC and Farmer.
jmho
I'm not calling for his firing, I think some are, but majority no...
I just think people are wondering what the draw was with hiring him. There was some baggage there before even being brought in.
Me? This draft is huge, it will be a make or break draft for this regime, and sadly probably for Mike Pettine who has yet to even really get his feet wet with the Browns. Let's see what they do before we start running anyone out of town?
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,065 Likes: 1
Dawg Talker
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OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,065 Likes: 1 |
I think it comes down to Lombardi.
We had a 90%, "over my dead body, do you bring in Lombardi." Thing going.
Then it looked like they were going to hire a real GM.
Then Banner played out a political strategy that appeared to kick us all in the face - low and behold... here's Lombardi. But, not as GM! A couple weeks later... Lombardi's title is GM.
The hate, anger, you name it was justified. If you play the fans and treat them like they're stupid, it will come back to bite you. Always.
Then the Chud thing.
Then the PR disaster from the Chud thing.
I get it. I was really p*$$ed too.
But, I need this guy to turn this thing around. And, until Lombardi proves he is who he always has been, and hasn't grown, then I'm being unfair. And, most importantly, I have no choice. If I bag and moan, the only thing I can get out of it is you guys telling me how wise I am. I'm not holding my breath for that ever happening -- don't want it to. I'm stuck with Banner and Lombardi and I'm hoping for a Seabiscuit, Boise State, Rudy type of ending to the story.
The Chud thing. I'm not sure we will ever know the behind the scenes reason, drama, and responsibility for it. The three amigos may deserve a pat on the back for not coming out and spilling the beans on some very damaging info as to why they let him go, for all I know. The Chud thing was unfair, him coming away with over 14 million for 7 months work is unfair, my teachers salary is unfair. Boo hoo. Haslam has a billion dollar business and he hired Chud to front it, be the face of it, lead it, manage it. If Jimmy looked down from his owners box and just said "no" then it will be much, much better in a short time versus continuing the obvious for another year, or two. If Holmgren would have let Mangini go, coached us himself, and sold the farm for Bradford, we would have been in the playoffs this year. (OK maybe)
Banner knows we have our eyes on him. Jimmy knows it. Browns fans are definately not stupid and they need us. These guys really have to get this thing squared away.
Junior didn't really care. He tried to act like he did, but he didn't. That is why I was always so viscious when I went after him. We needed an owner who could hold people accountable and who was present. Who was there.
In reality, we are a 2-3 year old franchise. We've never grown beyond that. We've never matured beyond the 2-3 year old building phase.
The Lerner years were the wasted years. Completely wasted. You do not run an NFL franchise like you do a second tier english soccer club.
The thing that keeps coming back to me is, I wonder what Jimmy really thinks of Banner? If he actually does have complete confidence in him? Or, if he's wondering, if he's thinking should of, could of, why did I?
Barry Bonds Check
Roger Clemens Check
Mark McGuire Check
Lance Armstrong Check
71-79 Steelers Taboo
(Lets pretend it didn't happen.)
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,405
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,405 |
Quote:
Quote:
He fired the best GM we have had with the Browns.
Assuming you mean Heckert. Funny, I haven't heard Heckert's name mentioned so far on teams looking for a new GM. What is really crazy! We hear Farmer's name mentioned for the Miami job. Didn't Banner hire Farmer?
Lucy, you got some 'splainin' to do!
Ironic Heckert is going to the Superbowl as Director of Pro Personnel of Denver (or did I miss something happen to him after his DUI?)
"My signature line goes here."
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
As far as I know he is.. he was hired in May of last year so I'm not sure how much credit he can get for it but he is probably going to be there
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
I really like your last post. Very philosophical. Deeper than most will ever dare venture. I also agree w/much of it. Nice job, man. I'm impressed. 
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