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Daboll won games when everyone on the field and in the stands knew Cleveland faced eight in the box and McCoy hands the ball to Hillis. You can't say it was the defense who won games too!
How many games did he win? We were 5-11 both years he was here!
Daboll then went to Miami and they won 6 game and then Kansas City where he won 2. (Miami had some offensive talent - Reggie Bush, Brandon Marshall, Brian Hartline. Kansas City had Jamal Charles and Dwayne Bowe.)
Why are we even discussing this?
In 2011, yes in one year, with Daboll Dolphins improving from 30th in the league to 20th in overall offense.
If I recall, Daboll again had ONE year to make a winning offense with Matt Cassel. Chiefs were hit hard by the injury bug. They fired Romeo Crennel hiring Andy Reid. Obviously, Daboll does not run a WCO, and Daboll is not part of the Andy Reid tree.
You presented a long article stating how Daboll mistreated Colt McCoy. Funny, that was Colt's best years in the NFL beating Saints, Patriots, and Steelers.
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Legend
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This coming from the guy whose last debate with me fizzled out into 'I know what I saw'?
Don't remember the facts just that what you post is pretty irrelevant and you post your opinions as facts without any logical or football backing. If its what I saw then usually its correct. Cause my eyes don't lie...stats do sometimes. Anyways I see you are always in a huff n puff and looking to rumble...how bout talking some football. I still say Daboll was innovative and very good with
QBs - on that note I will finish it with. 2010 had to utilize Colt due to Injuries...he was praised by Holmgren. 2011 Colt under Holmgren as he said he would be hands on...Colt pretty much Sucked!
Back to Loggains? It would be terrible if we name him after some more interviews as the OC almost a well "You'll do for now" type of thing. I hope we brought him in to be the QB coach and waiting to hire the OC then introduce him as part of his staff.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Jim Zorn Redux. 
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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HC Pettine- 47 yrs
DC O'Neill- 35 yrs
OC Shannahan/DeFilippo- 34/35 yrs *DeFilippo is my guess to be hired.*
QB Loggains- 33 yrs
My guess is that we have an eye on a guy coaching in the super bowl. Don't know whom, but I suspect we interview tham then either hire him or name Loggains OC. JMO
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Man, I wonder what's going through Loggains' head. OC or QB coach? QB coach or OC? HURRY UP GUYS!
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Man, I wonder what's going through Loggains' head. OC or QB coach? QB coach or OC? HURRY UP GUYS!
it's probably, I just got fired a couple weeks ago and I am lucky enough to have landed another job quickly.
he can look to guys like K.Shanahan and others to know that doesn't always happen no matter how hyped your name is.
#gmstrong
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I am sure the Loggains was read in on this. Being told something like we definitely want you on our staff in some capacity. At least Qb coach, possibly OC but we want to complete the interview process.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Is anybody else us UN-excited about all our coaching staff changes as I am this year? I've been laying back and just watching it all go down and it's all just such a "meh". I feel like none of it matters because the FO is still so screwed up. We saw this in the Learner years... when the top of the organization is a mess everything below it turns out to be a mess as well. This whole "maybe he's a QB coach, maybe an OC" is a perfect example. I mean... what? Is Banner a GM? Is Lombardi? Does the owner pick players and fire coaches? Is the coach going to pick his own OC? Going back to the Holmgren years we have learned over and over what happens when people don't have well defined roles and job descriptions in an organization. It turns into a bumbling mess. Disssssfunction! They don't seem to be figuring this out. I have zero expectation that the draft will miraculously turn out splendidly despite our bumbling and as a result I have every expectation that all of this is going to turn into a dumpster fire. It's sad when I'm looking forward to it crashing hard so the owner seeks some better council in putting things together. I don't mean to just come in here and crap on everyone's parade but man, this all just feels like such a disaster. Uhhg, we need miracles. Plural.
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
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I'm not unimpressed, so far.
But I have a strong feeling of tempered expectations/ enthusiasm. Also feel strongly that if it doesn't work (yet again) it'll be because of the front office.
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Don't remember the facts just that what you post is pretty irrelevant and you post your opinions as facts without any logical or football backing.
I think you've got it the other way around in this instance.
You claimed that it was obviously ignorant to say that Mangini didn't instill 'discipline'. I asked for one example showing how it was such an obviously wrong opinion.
You pointed to training camp drills Mangini ran, which led to lower drops, fumbles, mental penalties, etc.
I showed that this wasn't true, and that in most cases those things increased. You came back with, 'well, we probably had more fumbles because we ran more'. I showed that this, again, was not the case.
You then resorted to 'well, I know what I saw'.
I'm not the one using opinions without backing as fact.
Resorting to 'well, my eyes say otherwise' isn't a football argument. It's an opinion passed off as fact. And the fact that you tried to condescend makes it look even worse.
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I still say Daboll was innovative and very good with
QBs
As I said earlier, I think he did some innovative stuff here. I think he has a place in the NFL.
I don't think offensive coordinator is that place. He's proved himself to be a failure in that regard.
QB's coach? I'df have no problem hiring him for that.
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Except for a few that either find the hires bad, or the ones that find them good most of us seem to be in a "give a chance, wait and see" kind of mode.
Not sure there are many that are optimistic or overly so.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Looks like we are going to have a very young coaching staff, at least the part of the staff that is higher up on the food chain. That is assuming, of course, DeFlippo and Shanahan are still in the mix despite a bad interview with the latter candidate.
Even the guys who aren't high up the food chain are young. The only old guy that I know of is the linebackers coach Chuck Driesbach.
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I lean on the side of the younger guys being a good thing than a detriment.
For the most part I think the younger guys will work hard because they have more energy and need to prove themselves. They are not yet a part of the coaching circuit and probably can't get a job as easily as someone who has been around a long time.
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I am cautiously optimistic.. I have no empirical evidence to tell you why, call it my "gut" reaction... but I have a pretty good feeling about our new HC..
yebat' Putin
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I am cautiously optimistic.. I have no empirical evidence to tell you why, call it my "gut" reaction... but I have a pretty good feeling about our new HC..
I really want you to be right..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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You claimed that it was obviously ignorant to say that Mangini didn't instill 'discipline' - Now I remember, you did have stats, I only had my eyes...not enough to go into too much depth. You of course can think what you want. I remember the state of the Browns regarding discipline...w/Rac then Mangini. Possibly it cannot be defined in STATS...just know what I saw. any who...time to move on. But I got a feeling you will bring this up again n again and again...lol
We should hear about our OC this weekend unless it is that we are waiting for somebody playing in the SB game??? Who QB coach? Maybe we are waiting for a final answer from the Fillipo kid for Loggains final decision.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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We should hear about our OC this weekend unless it is that we are waiting for somebody playing in the SB game??? Who QB coach? Maybe we are waiting for a final answer from the Fillipo kid for Loggains final decision.
Tab, the only people I can think of is Carl Smith (twice QB coach for the Browns), Seattle QB coach, and Greg Knapp, Broncos QB coach.
I thought maybe Tom Cable, but he is assistant head coach. I am not sure he would take a demotion.
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EO, you are dealing with two different questions, there, ONE would be "did Mangini instill discipline", the answer is a clear and obvious YES, he punished players for various rules infractions. Discipline is another word for punishment. Question TWO would be "did it have a beneficial effect", which is less clear. Fumbles went up somewhat, as did drops slightly, but the one area of "mistake" most clearly related to discipline, offsides penalties, went down rather dramatically.
Some folks will omit inconvenient facts, and also highlight a distinction without a difference. Up to you if you want to continue to play their game. Not worth a wet fart, IMO.
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Someone else mentioned that we could be waiting till after National Signing Day to interview some college guys.
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We should hear about our OC this weekend unless it is that we are waiting for somebody playing in the SB game??? Who QB coach? Maybe we are waiting for a final answer from the Fillipo kid for Loggains final decision.
Tab, the only people I can think of is Carl Smith (twice QB coach for the Browns), Seattle QB coach, and Greg Knapp, Broncos QB coach.
I thought maybe Tom Cable, but he is assistant head coach. I am not sure he would take a demotion.
I am thinking (wishfully so?), that it is Knapp they are waiting for.
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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] But I got a feeling you will bring this up again n again and again...lol
I am very rarely the one who brings up Mangini.
He's usually brought up by the small handful of folks who still cling to the idea of Mangini.
They make their arguments, and then when they're dismantled, they come back with 'Mangini is ancient history' and/or accuse me of dredging up the past.
I am rarely the one to bring him up. But I will always refute the invented myths that some insist on attributing to him.
It was worth bringing up here, because you continue to attribute things to me (stating opinions as fact, without logic or reasoning behind it), that you yourself are doing.
And don't accuse me of wanting to pick fights when you're the one coming from a point of condescension. I'll give it right back, and you won't take it well. We've done that dance before.
What did you say in the last thread? You had to refute the claim that Mangini didn't instill discipline in order to preserve the integrity of the board? 
I guess that's what I had to do here. 
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Knapp is another retread guy. Hiring him would be a poor choice in my opinion.
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Knapp is another retread guy. Hiring him would be a poor choice in my opinion.
just curious, if you had your druthers who would be your choice? The landscape seems bleak
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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I really have no clue. The John DeFilippo guy intrigues me as he seems pretty smart. I am guessing we will hire someone that we aren't even thinking of.
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J / C...
Got a question...Sorry if it's a dumb one... Could a coach like Brad Seely become an OC ? Since he is the Special teams coach and asst HC for the 49er's. I'm not sure if that would be a step down or lateral move .
I'm familiar with J Harbaugh. but that was a ST's to HC leap. Just wondering about the ST's to OC.
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it would be up to the 49ers to allow him to interview.
all positions outside of HC are considered lateral now by the NFL. it's the reason that GB won't allow their position coaches interview for coordinator jobs.
#gmstrong
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I always wanted to look at Seely for HC.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I always wanted to look at Seely for HC.
I did also... That's why I wondered about the move...Figured he might make a good OC...just thinking
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Jim Zorn Redux.
was zorn every our offensive coordinator?????....no......right? why am i not sur eon this one
" Now here you are running these dirty old streets tattoo on your neck fake gold on your teeth, got the hood here snowed but you can't fool me, we both know who you are"
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Quote:
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Jim Zorn Redux.
was zorn every our offensive coordinator?????....no......right? why am i not sur eon this one
No. I was referencing the fact that a coach has been hired for one position, then later upgraded to a higher position.
Jim Zorn was hired to be OC by Washington in 2008. A month later, after hiring no one, Zorn was upgraded to head coach. This was a position he failed at and relieved of duties mid-way in 2009.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Someone else mentioned that we could be waiting till after National Signing Day to interview some college guys.
You and whoever else mentioned good call! I never would have thought. Does anyone know the day?
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I really have no clue. The John DeFilippo guy intrigues me as he seems pretty smart. I am guessing we will hire someone that we aren't even thinking of.
I was thinking the same, but if he was the man, they would have made the deal by now.
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Daboll sucked when he was here, he sucked after that, and he will suck in the future. just say no buddy.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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