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It was sort of a half joke - but he's a perfect scheme fit for Kelly.
~Lyuokdea
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Quote:
It was sort of a half joke - but he's a perfect scheme fit for Kelly.
Got it. I only asked because I didn't fully realize how good Foles was the past season and figured others didn't as well.
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Yeah, that's sort of true too - he was really good (better than I'd realized - and good enough that Kelly has found a way to work with him).
~Lyuokdea
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Yeah, if you throw 27 TDs and only 2 INTs then you probably earned yourself another year.
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Very good, informative stuff Lyuo. Please keep it up. You pretty much ended up with the same top5 at QB as me with similar value range. Not sure that's good or bad for you, but that's what I saw too 
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Ly, I'm having trouble understanding why you describe bortles and Thomas in basically the same terms but one is top 10 and the other is top 200.
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You guys tell me why I'm wrong. I need to make an eye doctor appointment.
We've read how Tajh Boyd and Aaron Murray have good arms (or adequate).
I don't see it.
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You guys tell me why I'm wrong. I need to make an eye doctor appointment.
We've read how Tajh Boyd and Aaron Murray have good arms (or adequate).
I don't see it.
Murray's (to me) got an adequate arm. What stands out to me is his decision making, his release, and his ball placement. Those are top notch IMO. He had kind of a stinker against (IIRC) South Carolina and Florida, but in three other games, including LSU and maybe Alabama, the guy played like Drew Brees.
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Quote:
You guys tell me why I'm wrong. I need to make an eye doctor appointment.
We've read how Tajh Boyd and Aaron Murray have good arms (or adequate).
I don't see it.
I'd call both of their arm strengths average for the NFL (maybe slightly below average for Boyd, compared to NFL starters) - they have less than a number of the elite guys, but definitely more than say a Brees or Peyton Manning (currently).
~Lyuokdea
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Ly, I'm having trouble understanding why you describe bortles and Thomas in basically the same terms but one is top 10 and the other is top 200.
I'd say they have the same strengths (they are prototypical NFL QBs in terms of size/speed/throwing strength).
But I don't think I compared them much at all in terms of accuracy and ability to move through progressions. They are weaknesses of Bortles (compared to what you'd expect for a top 10 pick) -- but he is far ahead of Thomas in these categories.
I see Bortles making correct adjustments, and moving through progressions - though he doesn't do it at an NFL caliber yet - Thomas looks lost out there honestly.
Of course, this is only in one game I've watched for Thomas - and two for Bortles. Maybe more games would yield something different.
~Lyuokdea
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I see Bortles making correct adjustments, and moving through progressions - though he doesn't do it at an NFL caliber yet - Thomas looks lost out there honestly.
I don't remember if it was the USF game or the Baylor game (I'd have to go back and check my notes... yes I'm that kind of a nerd) but I saw him run the same running play into the SS in the box for no gain twice in one game. I thoughtit was bad the first time then he let it happen again. I just don't see the adjustments with him.
By the way, when it comes to QBs, that's one thing you get watching the full game as opposed to these cut-ups. Typically these clips only highlight their passes and runs, and not anything else a QB is expected to do.
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Quote:
By the way, when it comes to QBs, that's one thing you get watching the full game as opposed to these cut-ups. Typically these clips only highlight their passes and runs, and not anything else a QB is expected to do.
It's certainly true - and matters more for some positions than others. Unfortunately, I don't have full game tape of every NCAA game this season, so I only use what I can get.
~Lyuokdea
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Quote:
Quote:
By the way, when it comes to QBs, that's one thing you get watching the full game as opposed to these cut-ups. Typically these clips only highlight their passes and runs, and not anything else a QB is expected to do.
It's certainly true - and matters more for some positions than others. Unfortunately, I don't have full game tape of every NCAA game this season, so I only use what I can get.
Lol yeah wouldn't that be nice? I wish they would show every play for the QBs on these things. I'll tweet JMPAsq and Aaron A. to see if they can get their compatriots to jump on board. 
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Watkins (vs Georgia, vs. Maryland)
Pro:
1.) Very tricky, and polished route runner, and shows an instinct to come back to the ball (:35 G)
2.) Can turn nothing into a TD (like :55 G) - I’d guess that is 4.4ish speed on that play. Has great anticipation of where the defense will be, and uses that to get YAC (3:56 M).
3.) Has elite ability to adjust to the ball and catch the ball without stopping. See the play at 2:25 (M) - he slows down just a second, so that he can be accelerating while he catches the ball. This gives him the ability to turn up field and get a few more yards.
4.) Great hands catcher - plucks the ball out of the air 3:00 (M)
Con:
1.) Due to his frame, he is not a particularly great run blocker, but he does put some effort in, there is a great block at :45 (G)
2.) Takes a poor route to bail out a scrambling Boyd (3:30 M)
3.) Fumbles the ball while going down (5:00 M) just a poor job of hanging on.
4.) Is not the type of receiver who is going to go up and get the jump ball. I didn’t really see him have any jump balls, so it’s hard to tell how he’d perform. I’d be interested to know his vertical — but it’s really not his game.
Other:
1.) Gets most of his receptions off of designed screens - his great speed forces the CB to play off of him, and Clemson uses that to get him the ball regularly.
2.) Overall, he’s an extremely crafty, Marvin Harrison type receiver. He has elite hands which gives him a large catch radius, and has elite awareness. He finds the holes in zone coverage, he adjusts to the ball to catch it in gear. He picks up lots of YAC. He shows good acceleration out of bursts, and doesn’t give away his routes. He is not a physically imposing receiver, but he is going to find ways to get open against any CB.
~Lyuokdea
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~Lyuokdea
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I live in SC and Watkins has some issues.
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I live in SC and Watkins has some issues.
On the field, off the field, or both?
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Both. He was arrested for possession of a controlled substance and having marijuana on him. I think he missed a couple of games for that.
His on the field issues are:
---somewhat inconsistent performances
---rounds off some of his routes
---doesn't get off the LOS against press coverage
---a lot of his numbers come from catching WR screens
Now, he is a very dynamic player who catches errant throws and he is a threat to break the big one at any time.
He's a good player, but I think it would be a huge mistake to pass on one of the top QBs for this guy----or any other WR.
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A team without a QB should never be drafting a WR top 5. How many times have the Lions proven that? Is he a Megatron type prospect, absolutely not.
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First, I'll admit that I'm a sucker for good character. And, that you oftentimes show your true character in the midst of your personal failings much more than anytime else. As such, Watkins transgression actually put me in his corner more. He got busted for doing something stupid. He completely owned up to it (didn't blame anyone, didn't act like it wasn't a big deal) and has kept clean since (as far as we know at least). It's something for NFL teams to research, but I'm not worried about it (to the extent that we know): Quote:
Watkins took full responsibility for his transgression and promised he'd matured since the arrest.
"I didn't care how many games it was," said Watkins, who hadn't taken public questions since he was stopped by Clemson police. "I didn't care what the outcome was, I just wanted to serve my consequences."
Video of the arrest, released by the Clemson Police Department in response to open-record requests from The Associated Press and other media outlets, showed a compliant, polite Watkins cooperating fully with law enforcement.
Watkins took the same approach in the three months since as he tried to work his way back into favor with his coaches and teammates. "I just kept good spirits, stayed humble through the whole situation because I messed up, no one else messed up," the receiver said.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/co...ames/56764730/1
#gmstrong
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I did not make a HUGE deal about his arrest. I stated it as one of several "issues."
Let's not lose sight of the fact that we need a qb way more than a number 2 WR.
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Let's not lose sight of the fact that we need a qb way more than a number 2 WR.
I don't think anyone is arguing that fact, but I think it is worthwhile to have contingency plans in place. What if our FO likes Manziel and Bridgewater and they go 1 and 3? Or 1 and 2 for that matter? And they don't like Carr or Bortles? They have to be prepared for what to do at 4.
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Thank you for bringing some reason into the mix.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Some won't think this is "reasonable," but if you are worried about the QBs going 1, 2, and 3.......why not move-up to number 2?
I think it would be incredibly stupid to take a #2 WR w/the 4th overall pick.
I remember when Nas [whatever happened to that guy? He was a big Michigan fan] first brought up drafting Leon at #3. I didn't open the thread for a few weeks because I thought it was such a stupid idea and it would never happen. This situation kind of reminds me of that one. It was a huge blunder then and it would be again.
No WRs [especially at number 2] w/the 4th overall pick!!!
I guess that is "unreasonable."
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we will know in the next month or so, but moving up to 2 might not be an option. if the Rams determine that Bradford may not be the franchise guy, then they can either trade him or cut him and save $21mil on their cap over the next 2 seasons. http://overthecap.com/sam-bradford-dilemma/an incoming QB at #2 will barely make 1/2 of what they are saving. if they determine that one of the QBs at the top is a better long-term prospect than Bradford, then they would be stupid to keep him. And, I do not think the Rams FO is stupid. therefore, it is conceivable that no team is willing to trade down from the top of the draft and we will need a contingency plan in place.
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A team without a QB should never be drafting a WR top 5. How many times have the Lions proven that? Is he a Megatron type prospect, absolutely not.
This.
My nightmare is that we are sitting at #4 and Teddy, Johnny Football and Bortles are all gone. Maybe the cost to move up was too much or someone else outbid. It's possible but it is still my worst case scenario.
This would mean that Watkins, Clowney and the OTs are still on the board. I would just as soon auction the pick and try to load for a top prospect QB in next year's draft (again) and hope we don't screw the pooch then. Take a QB later this year but concentrate on building the team.
Not an ideal plan, but better than taking Carr or someone else that high.
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Quote:
Both. He was arrested for possession of a controlled substance and having marijuana on him. I think he missed a couple of games for that.
His on the field issues are:
---somewhat inconsistent performances
---rounds off some of his routes
---doesn't get off the LOS against press coverage
---a lot of his numbers come from catching WR screens
Now, he is a very dynamic player who catches errant throws and he is a threat to break the big one at any time.
He's a good player, but I think it would be a huge mistake to pass on one of the top QBs for this guy----or any other WR.
I kind of want to keep this to evaluating game tape -- but how exactly do you get "inconsistent performance" out of Watkins?
He had 8 games with 100+ receiving yards this year, the rest of his games were 96,93,68,58,19 -- the 19 yard game can be excluded because Clemson won 52-13 and Boyd only attempted 23 passes for 160 yards.
That's really about as consistent as it gets. Compare that to Mike Evans, they had almost the same yards over the season (1646 for Watkins, 1394 for Evans), but Evans had games with 84,57,51,46,46,8 yards.
~Lyuokdea
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