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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/northwester...-163217754.htmlQuote:
On Tuesday, Colter took a big – and potentially historic – step toward possibly changing the system. His grassroots organizational work resulted in the start of a college players union.
Paperwork signed by what union organizers say represents the majority of the current Wildcats football team was submitted Tuesday to the Chicago office of the National Labor Relations Board. Cards filled out by individual players declared they wished to be represented by the newly formed College Athletes Players Association (CAPA) against what they deem their employer, Northwestern University.
CAPA is backed by the United Steelworkers, who had their international president, Leo Gerard, and national political director, Tim Waters, in Chicago to assist in the process. It is running in conjunction with the National College Players Association, a once small advocacy outfit from California operated for years by former UCLA linebacker Ramogi Huma.
Colter found out about the NCPA when researching for the "Modern Workplace" class. He contacted Huma, and the two began a conversation. It turned out to be a perfect match.
This is just the first step, and it comes with a long road ahead and no guarantee of success.
Yet the act is significant, and the latest in a rush of challenges – both legal and political – to the basic concept of amateurism that is the bedrock of the NCAA. Before anyone brushes off the possibility of a college athlete's union as farcical and farfetched, there was a time when professional sports owners said the same thing about the likelihood of organized labor in their leagues.
"The No. 1 thing that I want to accomplish is to finally give athletes a true voice," Colter told Yahoo Sports. "They need to finally have a seat at the table when rules and regulations are determined. They need an entity in place that can negotiate on the players' behalf and have their best interests in mind."
Tuesday's development does not automatically create a players union in college sports or even guarantee that one will eventually form. CAPA is looking to represent only football and men's basketball players initially, according to Huma – although further expansion is possible.
Registering with the labor relation board starts a process. Northwestern must respond to whether it wishes to recognize the union. The school likely will follow NCAA precedent and deny the players are employees at all. Colleges prefer to classify them as "student-athletes."
School administrators and coaches, according to Colter, were unaware of the union organizing as of Tuesday morning, when he planned to tell them personally. As such, neither the school nor the NCAA was initially available for comment.
If Northwestern rejects the union, the local labor board will hold a hearing on the matter, listen to both sides and make a determination on who is correct. In rough terms, the debate is over whether the players really are "student-athletes" or whether they're employees compensated by scholarships, room, board and other items.
No matter who wins, one side can appeal to the National Labor Relations Board. And no matter who wins that time, the loser can take the ruling to the Federal Courts, which has numerous layers and appeals processes.
Even if the union at Northwestern ends up getting recognized, it would apply to athletes at only private NCAA institutions eligible for membership. Players at public schools would still have to take the case to their individual state boards.
So don't look for the union label anytime soon. This will be a war of attrition.
Huma is well aware of that, and isn't jumping into this fray on a whim. He wants to win. A Bruins linebacker in the mid-1990s, Huma became disillusioned with the NCAA when he saw players' monthly food allotment money routinely run out, only to have All-American teammate Donnie Edwards get suspended for accepting free groceries he needed.
He founded the NCPA to argue for the players and eventually found an ally in the gritty Steelworkers. This represents the group's boldest move yet. The United Steelworkers (USW) will provide CAPA with a legal team well versed in labor law that is experienced and has plenty of financial support for the fight ahead.
Huma notes that the NCAA's business model relies on the fact it can set the rules for compensation, support, medical resources as well as the amount of practice and games. It's a one-way street, a take-it-or-leave-it deal.
While professional sports unions generally rise to fan consciousness only during strikes or lockouts that often center on money, there are myriad other less divisive and important issues they can handle.
The NFL Players Association, for example, was able to collectively bargain a limit on the amount of full-contact practices players must go through on a weekly basis and argue for specifics on off-season workouts. College football players, however, have no such ability to even ask for such a concession. Out of fear of angering coaches, they rarely speak up individually.
"We're trying to give college athletes a seat at the table," Huma told Yahoo Sports. "All rules are imposed on them by the NCAA. And every dollar the NCAA is able to deny the players goes to their salaries."
Said Colter: "Money is far from priority No. 1 on our list of goals. The health of the players is No. 1. Right now the NCAA does not require or guarantee that any university or institution covers any sports-related medical expenses. Student-athletes should never have to worry about if their sports-related medical bills are taken care of."
Colter finished his career at Northwestern after throwing for more than 5,000 yards and accounting for 50 touchdowns. He's now preparing for the NFL draft after returning from the Senior Bowl, and is trying to complete his studies in Evanston.
Being the front man on this push will bring backlash, and the issues are no longer his issues, but Colter said he couldn't leave college football quietly. Someone had to do something, he figured. It was long past time.
"This issue is a lot bigger than any individual," Colter said. "This has the potential to help our peers and future generations to come. We have the opportunity to leave collegiate sports better off than when we found it. People will not always agree with our actions, but deep down I know it is the right thing to do."
Time, money, resolve and the federal courts will eventually determine whether college athletes will gain organized representation.
It's possible, however, that a development that could potentially change so much about college sports was sparked when a star quarterback sat in a summer class, learning from his teacher. It's just the kind of scene the NCAA might use to film one of its public-relations commercials.
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They'll never make the team.
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Man, I hope this gets blown out of the water.
Just the thought of a labor union in the college football ranks, much less one run by a construction trades union (can you say the word "Mob"?), is absolutely horrible.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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CHICAGO POLITICS! 
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p.s. I thought people attending Northwestern were smarter than this.... it makes me glad that I never took advantage of the full ride I was offered.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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They'll never make the team.
If they're good, they will make the team.
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p.s. I thought people attending Northwestern were smarter than this.... it makes me glad that I never took advantage of the full ride I was offered.
As a Northwestern viewer (live in Chicago now and the g/f works at Northwestern, and we're trying to get her into a PHD program of theirs studying Psycho-ology, so now I say "Go Cats!") I remember Coulter's argument about this. He did something at a game to make a statement toward wanting more rights in NCAA Div 1 football for college players. Really pissed Fitzpatrick off, not what he was saying, but the way he went about it. He had some initials or something on his uniform.
Anyway, I remember hearing his argument about it, and some of it made sense. Concussions and awareness toward them, things like that. Guy's really not a bad guy IMO. I like Coulter a lot.
But yeah, Northwestern has the best academic standing of any Div 1A Football School in I remember correctly. So don't knock them. Just remember, they're college kids. In the end, that's what they are. If anything, it's kind of impressive that a kid in class sees something he's passionate about, interests him, and he takes it a step further. May be he's naive going to a construction union, but you won't normally see that
out of your average college student, not to mention Div1A College football player.
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South Park did a funny episode about this a few years back called "crack baby basketball" if anyone wants to watch  Basically comparing NCAA to the slave trade.
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They'll never make the team.
Colter won't make the team? NW's best player? Also, he got over 1/2 the team to sign it. NW doesn't have a choice but to let the players play.
I think this gets shot down in the courts relatively quickly though. The NCAA is going to have to do something to quell the athletes. But, that will be tougher now as the union rep's won't always be just looking out for them (they will also be looking to expand their power). It's a tough place to be in but I understand why they are going down the road.
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Colter won't make the team? NW's best player?
I think he's going to the NFL anyway. That or he graduated. He played 4 years of college football
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Quote:
South Park did a funny episode about this a few years back called "crack baby basketball" if anyone wants to watch
Basically comparing NCAA to the slave trade.
One of the best episodes of the last 5 years, easily. haha
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George Mankiw (the chair of George W. Bush's Council of Economic Advisers) also makes the case that the NCAA is the most abusive monopoly in the US.
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Quote:
Quote:
Colter won't make the team? NW's best player?
I think he's going to the NFL anyway. That or he graduated. He played 4 years of college football
I thought he had 1 more year of eligibility. but, I do see he had 9 pass attempts in 2010, so they must have burned his redshirt that year? regardless, yes, it looks like he is done.
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Quote:
Quote:
They'll never make the team.
Colter won't make the team? NW's best player? Also, he got over 1/2 the team to sign it. NW doesn't have a choice but to let the players play.
I think this gets shot down in the courts relatively quickly though. The NCAA is going to have to do something to quell the athletes. But, that will be tougher now as the union rep's won't always be just looking out for them (they will also be looking to expand their power). It's a tough place to be in but I understand why they are going down the road.
Exactly.
Removing your best players isn't going to make boosters happy. PO boosters = say bye bye to football. A football program like Northwestern isn't earning money off of jersey sales and hot dogs.
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Does Northwestern even have boosters?
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Does Northwestern even have boosters?
sure, but they are for their business, law, journalism and medical schools.
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Quote:
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They'll never make the team.
If they're good, they will make the team.
Not as a student trying to make the team because they're unionized. It isn't going to happen. Period. You could be Peyton Manning reborn but if you're trying to unionize, you'd never see the field. Never.
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Not as a student trying to make the team because they're unionized. It isn't going to happen. Period. You could be Peyton Manning reborn but if you're trying to unionize, you'd never see the field. Never.
So, you're saying none of the NW players that signed will play this upcoming season?
Last edited by Punchsmack; 01/28/14 09:18 PM.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Colter won't make the team? NW's best player? Also, he got over 1/2 the team to sign it. NW doesn't have a choice but to let the players play.
Yes they do have a choice. Students trying to unionize won't put a worthwhile product on the field. They won't see the field. Period.
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I think this gets shot down in the courts relatively quickly though. The NCAA is going to have to do something to quell the athletes. But, that will be tougher now as the union rep's won't always be just looking out for them (they will also be looking to expand their power). It's a tough place to be in but I understand why they are going down the road.
The NCAA would very likely remove the credentials of any school with 'unionized' student athletes.
Paying student athletes is going to remove any athletic scholarships given by universities. So, what they'll actually do is to remove any chance for poor youth with athletic skills but less-than-stellar academic faculties to lose those opportunities. You're now on your own in finding funding for an education.
If you are at a school with an athletic program, you're not going to be paying the university to wear the uniform. You're paying a maintenance fee for upkeep of the facilities where you ply your athletic talents.
If you get into any legal trouble and your parents ain't got the money to bail you out, now you're on your own. The university won't shield you. It will cover it's own behind and, if necessary, be a co-complainant against you for harming the reputation of the university.
If you injure an athlete, you're the one that's paying (or your insurance - that you pay for) because the university absolves itself of any liability for any harm that you inflict or suffer. Let your union handle it for you.
These kids don't realize what life is the real world is like yet.
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So, you're saying none of the NW players that signed will play this upcoming season?
What I'm saying is that if they manage to 'unionize', I don't see any of them playing. Yes.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
They'll never make the team.
If they're good, they will make the team.
Not as a student trying to make the team because they're unionized. It isn't going to happen. Period. You could be Peyton Manning reborn but if you're trying to unionize, you'd never see the field. Never.
And like I said, if you anger or upset boosters you can kiss football goodbye. Period.
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So, you're saying none of the NW players that signed will play this upcoming season?
What I'm saying is that if they manage to 'unionize', I don't see any of them playing. Yes.
If Northwestern did that to these kids, they'll certainly have a black eye (Northwestern that is).
I don't think they'll manage to unionize, but those that signed the petition will continue playing. Coulter said he was very happy with Northwestern. It's based on the principle that they have no say in what goes on with the NCAA/their sport, and it's for all division 1 athletes from all schools.
I remember one of his biggest concerns was concussions. Testing, research, protocol, protection, things like that. I can't complain about that
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So, you're saying none of the NW players that signed will play this upcoming season?
What I'm saying is that if they manage to 'unionize', I don't see any of them playing. Yes.
Well, actually, you said they wouldn't see the field if they were trying to unionize. But okay, just wanted to clear that up.
We won't know if this union idea goes through for years. As of now, anyone who signs will be playing.
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jc
Good for NW. I'm glad to see them do this. If everyone is going to make money off of them then the players should be included.
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 There's no way the NCAA would risk that lawsuit. If the courts' rule to allow, then it'd be too late. Like I said though, I don't think this effort goes through. The courts will likely dismiss.
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Quote:
Quote:
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So, you're saying none of the NW players that signed will play this upcoming season?
What I'm saying is that if they manage to 'unionize', I don't see any of them playing. Yes.
If Northwestern did that to these kids, they'll certainly have a black eye (Northwestern that is).
I don't think they'll manage to unionize, but those that signed the petition will continue playing. Coulter said he was very happy with Northwestern. It's based on the principle that they have no say in what goes on with the NCAA/their sport, and it's for all division 1 athletes from all schools.
I remember one of his biggest concerns was concussions. Testing, research, protocol, protection, things like that. I can't complain about that
They do have a say. They can go to school to actually acquire the knowledge for a normal career, like 99.5% of students at universities attend these universities do.
If I'm an NFL team, I let some other team (if any) draft Kain Colter. My guess is that he goes undrafted and never does anything in the NFL, if he manages to stay on a team.
I can complain about it plenty. If you feel that you may get injured playing the game, then do something else. Go find a professional badminton league to become a part of or start your own if you can't find one. I'll bet that my view on it is prevalent in the NFL at all levels, including at the player level.
Competitive football isn't a sport for wussies. Even flag football could be too much for him to handle. Kain Colter should hang up his jock strap because he won't be needing it any time soon.
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Quote:
Quote:
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So, you're saying none of the NW players that signed will play this upcoming season?
What I'm saying is that if they manage to 'unionize', I don't see any of them playing. Yes.
Well, actually, you said they wouldn't see the field if they were trying to unionize. But okay, just wanted to clear that up.
We won't know if this union idea goes through for years. As of now, anyone who signs will be playing.
Maybe they will. We'll find out how they manage.
In my view, these kids are hanging up any chance for athletic careers by putting their names out there promoting this silly notion. What will Kain Colter care? He'll be at home doing needlepoint and wondering what went wrong.
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Big fan of the move. Not always a big fan of unions - but when you are going up against one of the worst cartels in the US, you need some strength at your back.
I think this is not about paid athletes. It's about standards for education, concussions, player safety, disability payments for players who suffer long term injuries. These are simple, common sense things that the NCAA should (and has plenty of money to) provide.
The 6 year guaranteed scholarship for athletes would be a great way to start.
Also: Northwestern is one of the schools with the money to work with the movement to unionize. Also, the vast majority of alumni will support it (and their donations are much more important than Northwestern's football earnings).
Last edited by Lyuokdea; 01/28/14 10:40 PM.
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There's no way the NCAA would risk that lawsuit. If the courts' rule to allow, then it'd be too late. Like I said though, I don't think this effort goes through. The courts will likely dismiss.
LOL What lawsuit? The NCAA can set it's own rules. It's a private organization that has the power to enforce those rules.
If some athlete or school objects to the rules, they can make their case to the NCAA for a decision or they can join a different organization whose rules they do not object to.
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LOL What lawsuit? The NCAA can set it's own rules. It's a private organization that has the power to enforce those rules.
If some athlete or school objects to the rules, they can make their case to the NCAA for a decision or they can join a different organization whose rules they do not object to.
Two important things:
1.) A judge which legitimizes unionization would be more dangerous than students at one marginal school voting to join a union. I believe the NCAA would wait and hope this doesn't take off, rather than go to court immediately.
2.) Antitrust legislation means that congress has a lot of pull over how the NCAA (and NFL/MLB/NBA etc.) operate.
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Big fan of the move. Not always a big fan of unions - but when you are going up against one of the worst cartels in the US, you need some strength at your back.
Cartel? Really. To prepare these kids for employment in another 'cartel'?
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I think this is not about paid athletes. It's about standards for education, concussions, player safety, disability payments for players who suffer long term injuries. These are simple, common sense things that the NCAA should (and has plenty of money to) provide.
It absolutely is about paid athletes. It cannot be about safety or protections because the athletes can choose not to participate.
Common sense? For who? If the kid wants to play football and doesn't think that the NCAA isn't doing enough to protect them from being concussed or otherwise injured, then don't participate. It's that simple. No college or organization is putting a gun to these kids heads and forcing them to play the game.
They know the risks going in and hope to make millions doing it. But let's turn this thing around then.
If these students playing these sports finish their college careers uninjured, will these kids surrender a part of their income to the school? The school prepared them to make multiple-millions of dollars with their abilities. Their employees helped them develop these abilities, in many cases, free of charge. Shouldn't the school get something more for their efforts? The schools take a chance. Due to violations by athletes at Ohio State, the university was denied millions in revenue and other students were denied their opportunities because of the sanctions imposed. Who is going to recoup these lost revenues and opportunities?
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The 6 year guaranteed scholarship for athletes would be a great way to start.
How about the 6-year non-guaranteed, work hard and earn your way though college. I wouldn't be against allowing athletes to 'earn' a certain amount of money through endorsements, but these endorsements could not include material goods and all monies would be put into a fund to pay for their education. At such time as they earned enough to pay for their educational needs, they would then not be allowed to earn any additional wages outside of degree-related jobs. That is, professional employment related to their degrees outside of athletics. All other income would be considered a violation.
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Also: Northwestern is one of the schools with the money to work with the movement to unionize. Also, the vast majority of alumni will support it (and their donations are much more important than Northwestern's football earnings).
And the NCAA could come down with the 'death penalty' on Northwestern athletics all around, alumni donations be damned.
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Antitrust legislation means that congress has a lot of pull over how the NCAA (and NFL/MLB/NBA etc.) operate.
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It absolutely is about paid athletes. It cannot be about safety or protections because the athletes can choose not to participate.
These are kids under scholarship. For players of Northwestern, many choose to go to Northwestern, not because of this idea that they'll play in the NFL (why may be a dream, but realistically they're also planning for something else). Many go for the education. And the risk of losing a scholarship is a big deal.
For example, Northwestern's QB, Trevor Simeon. Kid's got a rocket arm, probably won't get to play in the NFL though, I don't think he has the mental makeup.
Anyway, when I asked why he chose Northwestern over other schools, he explained it was because he had an opportunity to go to a school that he normally would never have been able to go to. That's why he went, had his mission been the NFL, he might have gone somewhere else.
I'm sure this is the case of many NCAA Football players. So that's why they go.
And Northwestern costs 60k a year. http://www.ugadm.northwestern.edu/financial-aid/tuition-fees-and-expenses.html Losing that football scholarship might not be easy for these kids. You're a junior in college, probably gonna take 5 years to graduate because you have the commitments of a D1 football player at a school that's very challenging. Now you're afraid of losing that scholarship, and that's a hell of an incentive to play through a concussion. Right or wrong.
I have no issue with giving these kids protections about being able to sit out if they need to sit out. No one should have to worry about being put in a dark closet because he might have a concussion and is afraid to practice.
Being an athlete certainly is a privilege. But the fact is, NCAA sports has become a mega moneymaker. In fact, there's way too much money involved in college sports. And there's nothing wrong with some players trying to stand up for themselves. Now may be creating a union isn't the best idea. But I don't think there's anything wrong with them wanting their protections
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It absolutely is about paid athletes. It cannot be about safety or protections because the athletes can choose not to participate.
Yes - no employee has ever been concerned about their safety on the job -- and there should be no rules about workplace safety, because you can always quit?
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They know the risks going in and hope to make millions doing it. But let's turn this thing around then.
Most athletes are well aware that they are not going to make millions in the NFL. Especially those at a second tier football (and first tier academic) school like Northwestern.
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If these students playing these sports finish their college careers uninjured, will these kids surrender a part of their income to the school? The school prepared them to make multiple-millions of dollars with their abilities. Their employees helped them develop these abilities, in many cases, free of charge. Shouldn't the school get something more for their efforts? The schools take a chance. Due to violations by athletes at Ohio State, the university was denied millions in revenue and other students were denied their opportunities because of the sanctions imposed. Who is going to recoup these lost revenues and opportunities?
Wait, you are saying that it's unfair that a school that got caught in a cheating scandal lost money for it?
~Lyuokdea
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
I think he's saying that if NCAA players got paid, Terrelle Pryor should be financially liable to OSU? 
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
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Yes - no employee has ever been concerned about their safety on the job -- and there should be no rules about workplace safety, because you can always quit?
You're not really that dense, are you? A coal miner knows that there are inherent dangers in his work. He knows them going in. If he doesn't, should he be mining coal?
A race car driver knows there are risks in his work. A construction worker. An electrician. You get the idea.
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Most athletes are well aware that they are not going to make millions in the NFL. Especially those at a second tier football (and first tier academic) school like Northwestern.
And yet, knowing the risks, they sign up to participate anyway.
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Wait, you are saying that it's unfair that a school that got caught in a cheating scandal lost money for it?
No, the student athletes got caught selling items, in violation of the NCAA rules, not the school. However, as a result, the school was punished.
In cases where the school's violate NCAA rules, they should pay the penalty.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
you mention the most obvious example and just ignore the parallel.
yes, coal miners know the inherent risks of their job. yet, despite a complete absence of safety rules, they signed up for decades to do the job because the job paid well and they needed the money. when they unionized, they were able to fight for better working conditions/safety standards.
college football players play the game for the fame, lure of the NFL, or just the $$ they may not be able to afford to go to some of these schools (like NW). that does not mean there are not real safety hazards and that they should not have a voice in setting them.
i'm pretty anti-union in many cases. many of the big unions can do as much harm to their members as help (by refusing to adapt to the marketplace, they can price their own members out of an industry). but, when it comes to safety standards and fair practice, you always have more strength in numbers.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2007
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but, when it comes to safety standards and fair practice, you always have more strength in numbers.
This is a ruse. Once the foot gets in the door under the facade of player safety, the money angle will follow. Cut everyone one these kids tomorrow and give the scholarships to those who want to get paid the 60K / year for a great education. Send the message now to rest of the nation, the thug union heads and their corrupt attorneys.
“Unemployment is low because everyone has two jobs. Unemployment is low because people are working 60, 70, 80 hours a week and can barely feed their family.” -AOC
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
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but, when it comes to safety standards and fair practice, you always have more strength in numbers.
This is a ruse. Once the foot gets in the door under the facade of player safety, the money angle will follow. Cut everyone one these kids tomorrow and give the scholarships to those who want to get paid the 60K / year for a great education. Send the message now to rest of the nation, the thug union heads and their corrupt attorneys.
I have no doubt that one of the reasons that the big unions are so quick to help these guys is that they see the billion dollar enterprise of college football and want to get a piece.
That doesn't mean there are not real issues to take up that a player union couldn't help these kids out with.
Over-signing
Gray-shirting
1 year scholarships
Long-term injury medical costs
Gameday and practice safety/health standards
Et cetera
It's actually sort of amazing that the sport has been going on for so long and that the players have not yet stood up to such things. It's ridiculous that the 70-85th guys on rosters are basically thrown away each year on many of these teams and replaced (oh, and if they want to try to go somewhere else, they then have to sit out a year even if their old coach just didn't want them anymore). It's a dirty business with very few looking out for the athletes.
#gmstrong
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