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If it weren't important to learn the primary language of a country, why did our immigrant ancestors not carry on in their own languages? Eh, doesn't matter. I just don't understand Coca-Cola's point in dividing people…which they have clearly done. Unity my ass.
I think the point is that you can be American regardless of what language you speak (or even grew up speaking - since most Americans who natively speak another language also know English).
I think you are "dividing people" - by saying that those who speak English are more "American" than other Americans.
~Lyuokdea
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j/c
JMHO. but I think the point is, that having a language barrier doesn't help to "unify" anything. Diversity in culture is one thing, but when you throw up road blocks in communications, it divides, not unifies.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Also, where is this idea coming from that until recently immigrants just immediately learned English and never spoke their own languages again? If you look at Fig 17 here - the number of immigrants who speak English has actually gone up from about 70% to 90% in the past 100 years. http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_59.htm
~Lyuokdea
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I believe you might find that only includes the legal ones. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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you know, when I saw this commercial during the super bowl, my only thought was, "Man... that was really cool." It inspired a feeling of pride in me.
Not once did I think anyone might be offended by this. I must be really naive. I guess my mistake was to underestimate the internet's capacity for butthurt.
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~ Legend
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Quote:
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I took the ad as those people being Americans but singing in the language of whatever heritage they were. Take me for instance I'm part French so what if i sang it in French (don't know any though) does that make me less of an American?
If it weren't important to learn the primary language of a country, why did our immigrant ancestors not carry on in their own languages?
But they did. There's a reason why English, Spanish, Dutch and French are the major primary languages in America.
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Legend
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I took the ad as those people being Americans but singing in the language of whatever heritage they were. Take me for instance I'm part French so what if i sang it in French (don't know any though) does that make me less of an American?
I've also got some French in me. German, too. Wouldn't catch me dead singing a song about America in another language. But, if you enjoy it, learn it and sing it. Loud and proud.
If it weren't important to learn the primary language of a country, why did our immigrant ancestors not carry on in their own languages? Eh, doesn't matter. I just don't understand Coca-Cola's point in dividing people…which they have clearly done. Unity my ass. 
Where in the hell did my "Like' button go
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Not once did I think anyone might be offended by this.
Me either. In fact, I've been surprised- shocked even- that this 'controversy' exists at all.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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you know, when I saw this commercial during the super bowl, my only thought was, "Man... that was really cool." It inspired a feeling of pride in me.
Not once did I think anyone might be offended by this. I must be really naive. I guess my mistake was to underestimate the internet's capacity for butthurt.
my honest reaction was: why are so many superbowl commercials going the sappy route this year!
I also didn't think anyone would care so much one way or the other though.
#gmstrong
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NRTU
If people are going to get pissy over Coke and boycott them, do it for the right reasons. For starters it's pretty unhealthy for you. For crying out loud they used to use COCAINE AS AN INGREDIENT. There are a ton of REAL reasons to boycott coca cola: Human rights record, support of nazi Germany during WWII, and etc. No, people are boycotting them because they got a offended due to a commercial demonstrating the fact we're a boiling pot.
Now before you get upset, read the bold and ask yourself what makes you more angry. If it's the commerical then God help you.
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If it's the commerical then God help you.
I was born into a military family. All my uncles, literally ALL of them served in some branch of the military. It's called "patriotism" and that commercial completely negated that in my uncles opinion, and in myself and in many others in my family.
JMO, but if you choose to dislike Coke over the commercial, then you have 100% all the right and justifiable reasoning to do that and don't need to dip into the company's history to find reasons to draw disgust. As I said, it's called "American Patriotism" and it runs very, very strong in my family. My brother (former mechanic in the Army) took so much offense, he's vowed to not even touch a Coke product ever again and knowing him, he'll take that to his death bed. My uncle (former Ranger) took all his coke cans (full and empty, he recycles) out behind his house and used them for target practice.
JMO though and just using "my" family as an example.
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It's called "patriotism"
It goes by a different name and I'm not about to light a fuse on this powder keg JMO.
However I must conclude by saying God bless you and your family for what they've done for this country.
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but i'm in the military. you realize how diverse our military is right?
once again, i can sing the song in turkce? am i all of a sudden less patriotic than you? or is it because i find to have so much love for my country that i made sure to learn how to sing it in BOTH languages?
let that sink it, bro.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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It's called "patriotism"
It goes by a different name and I'm not about to light a fuse on this powder keg JMO.
Xenophobia is a word that comes to mind.
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I think the point is that you can be American regardless of what language you speak (or even grew up speaking - since most Americans who natively speak another language also know English).
I think you are "dividing people" - by saying that those who speak English are more "American" than other Americans.
I'm not sure I said anything about being more "American" if you speak English. I am talking about singing a traditional "American" song in other languages.
So, no…I'm not the one dividing people. I don't care who lives here if they do it the right way, or what language they speak. But I won't learn 20 different languages to be able to communicate with them. Hell, they won't even learn ONE. 
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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" For crying out loud they used to use COCAINE AS AN INGREDIENT. "
And when they stopped,I started boycotting them.
When I first saw this ad,I was so damned drunk I didn't even know they weren't singing English.Just thought they were bad singers.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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For crying out loud they used to use COCAINE AS AN INGREDIENT.
and, do you know why they stopped? it was still legal when they stopped using it in their formula:
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/01/why-we-took-cocaine-out-of-soda/272694/
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support of nazi Germany during WWII
ah, the good ole, well they advertised in Germany. here's an article that debunks anything further:
http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/fanta.asp
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Human rights record
I am certain there are human rights violations as there are likely in many companies that have been around for over 100yrs. Not excusing any that exist.
#gmstrong
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~ Legend
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They actually had a plant in Germany. The plant's managers were Nazi members, well most of them were. That's why they're called out in supporting Nazi Germany. What's rather ironic is that their plant couldn't do anything once the war started because they couldn't get the syrup from America. They weren't the IBM of pops in the least.
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However I must conclude by saying God bless you and your family for what they've done for this country.
I am not in the military, I actually went the "college" route, which upset a lot of my family but... that's another story in itself. Thank you for the blessings for my family members though, thank you very much bro.
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but i'm in the military. you realize how diverse our military is right?
once again, i can sing the song in turkce? am i all of a sudden less patriotic than you? or is it because i find to have so much love for my country that i made sure to learn how to sing it in BOTH languages?
let that sink it, bro.
First off, I am truly sorry if my words offended you in any way. Trust me 100% when I say that, I really mean it.
... now with that outta the way.
but i'm in the military. you realize how diverse our military is right?
Yes I do, and it's great. It's super. People want to live in this country and call it home, it should be asked of some of them to serve for this great country in which they surely are. Nothing against these people whatsoever, nor nothing against their "level of patriotic views" either...
once again, i can sing the song in turkce? am i all of a sudden less patriotic than you?
Absolutely not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That wasn't the point I was getting across. America the Beautiful wasn't written in turkish language. It wasn't written in Turkey and it wasn't written by a Turk (forgive my terminology, I just don't know the proper names if there is/are such a thing for my context). It wasn't written anywhere else but America, for America by an American (Katherine Bates, in 1895 I think was when it was published) and I actually know for a fact that Bates was a Massachusetts born person. It is one of the iconic and some/most will say, most popular of American patriotic songs ever written. That is why the games in London had two different singers/people to sing the two national anthems. They just aren't meant to be mingled with one another, IMO.
It may be just the way my brain is wired, but the commercial shouldn't have been aired. It shouldn't have been produced. And if so, they shouldn't have plugged in one of the most iconic, American songs to that context. Do you think Katherine Bates would appreciate that? Me personally, I don't think there would be any appreciation there. It's an insult truthfully.
I'm not so wrapped up in myself to not realize that... not everyone shares my view and not everyone has the same opinion or post-action feelings as me. I am just here describing "my" view/opinion, nothing more... nothing less.
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I believe you might find that only includes the legal ones.
Wrong.. It is based on the US Census data - which goes to pretty sizable efforts to include the illegal immigrant population. The response rate from illegal immigrant families is lower - but this is why the Census Bureau employs an army of statisticians in trying to estimate the effect of non-response rates - as well as sending people out into areas with low response rates to directly judge the population demographics. In fact there are several paragraphs in the document I linked that talk about this.
Last edited by Lyuokdea; 02/05/14 06:55 PM.
~Lyuokdea
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gotcha. you know its all good bro. i understand now so it's cool 
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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They actually had a plant in Germany. The plant's managers were Nazi members, well most of them were. That's why they're called out in supporting Nazi Germany. What's rather ironic is that their plant couldn't do anything once the war started because they couldn't get the syrup from America. They weren't the IBM of pops in the least.
yes, that is in the link I posted. the top guys were actually not Nazi's but it is likely many of the managers were (it was WWII Germany afterall).
#gmstrong
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That certainly doesn't match up with my experiences.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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That certainly doesn't match up with my experiences.
Well then, you should ignore it.... It's only facts.
~Lyuokdea
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NRTU
If people are going to get pissy over Coke and boycott them, do it for the right reasons. For starters it's pretty unhealthy for you. For crying out loud they used to use COCAINE AS AN INGREDIENT. There are a ton of REAL reasons to boycott coca cola: Human rights record, support of nazi Germany during WWII, and etc. No, people are boycotting them because they got a offended due to a commercial demonstrating the fact we're a boiling pot.
Now before you get upset, read the bold and ask yourself what makes you more angry. If it's the commerical then God help you.
Great post, but I have to point this out. I think we are a "melting pot" rather than a "boiling pot," but if you read this thread..............you may be right. 
This has been an amusing thread, but I suppose I should get serious.
I agree w/those who say I don't get why it is such a big deal. Wait. I think I do get it. Not sure I want to dwell on bigotry, though.
We all came from different countries. Most of our ancestors came here in search of better opportunities, such as:
---better economic opportunities
----to escape religious persecution, and
---political freedom.
Those are facts, not prejudiced opinions.
It seems to me that the commercial honored our diversity rather than mocked America. I believe some people need to read the inscription on the Statue of Liberty rather than listen to the rhetoric in red-neck bars.
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Vers: Because we're 2 different people, I would have stopped before: "...rather than listen to the rhetoric in red-neck bars." Otherwise, you summed up my POV pretty well. We're a pretty diverse bunch in here, as well... and it would be less than fair of me to automatically assume that those opposite of me on this issue are 'rednecks' (Gawd... I hate that term almost as much as I hate the 'N-Bomb'...). This is not to scold you at all... rather, to place some context around my POV- and to give others the benefit of the doubt as to their motivations. A previous poster mentioned his family legacy of military service as context for his anti-Coke POV. Another spoke of the diversity within the ranks of our armed forces. The difference in their viewpoints seems to stem not from their shared history as servicemen, but the mindsets of the households in which they were raised. To me, THIS is the very essence of what this country has always been about- the freedom to raise our families in accordance to what we feel is right, and to be able to express our opinions in open forums. It's entirely possible that some are opposed to the ad from a bigoted or xenophobic mindset... but I have no definitive proof of that. AND... I've known many folks in my life who may live what's called a 'redneck' (ugh- there's that word, again..) lifestyle who aren't judgmental bigots at all. Life's kinda tricky in that way, you know? In the past, I've made assumptions about folks that have been completely debunked once I got to know them. It's happened so many times, I've revised my way of seeing people over the years. Imagine that- a guy in his 50's is more open and less judgmental than a guy in his 20's. Who'dathunkit possible? Bottom line for me: I saw the ad through my own eyes, with my own life as context... and it affected me in a completely different way that it affected others. It's been an eye-opener for me to engage in this discussion, because I never once thought that anyone would get a different message from it than I did. (I'm thinking of Ballpeen's sig as I write this.) Has an opposing POV changed the way I saw the ad? Not even for a minute. Do I think my POV has changed anyone else's opinion? Nope. Do I think that they are wrong and I am right? Yes, I do- but it's not my place to tell them so.... because I don't have a lock on absolute knowledge. None of us do. So- until such time as I become omniscient, I'll still give an ear to those who see things differently, on the chance that I may be misguided, misinformed, or just plain mistaken. I owe it to them, but more importantly- I owe it to me... for as long as I seek to better myself. Working to keep an open mind is exhausting, yo.... 
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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LOL................I understand. Truth be told, I am a bit of a red neck myself and don't find it derogatory at all. We are all different, Clem. That is a fact. I was certainly poking fun at some people, but only to show them that generalizing groups of people is a very unfair of looking at things. I was showing them the mirror. Is that kind? Hell no. Is it effective when balanced w/soft-spoken logic like yours? I believe so. Look Clem, I think we should celebrate our diversity. Our ancestors came here for a reason. The reasons I listed are factual. The words on the Statue of Liberty are there for a reason. We should not forget any of that. I believe it would be a mistake to turn into the elitist snobs or uneducated bigots that forced the Puritans to become Separatists w/the Church of England. If one can not celebrate our great diversity, we should at least be tolerant of our differences. We do not have to all agree. We do not all have to be alike. We should at least respect the uniqueness of each individual culture and the differences of the individual. I will leave you w/a rather obscure quote: Quote:
Tolerance means freedom to me: I have the right to be myself but I respect others as well, cause it cuts both ways. It's also mutual understanding and equality. People should be different, but they should not see the differences as separating obstacles.
Aga Kloc, 21, Gdansk (Poland)
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Puedo ver ambos lados de este debate. Yo creo que cualquier persona que quiere ser parte de la sociedad de este país debe ser bastante fluidez en Inglés. La mayoría que ver este post estaría de acuerdo. Mis antepasados poner adelante un gran esfuerzo para aprender el idioma, y estaban bastante orgullosos de sí mismos por haberlo hecho. Sin embargo, no veo que esto contradice ese punto de vista comercial.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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I can see both sides of this debate. I believe that anyone who wants to be a part of this country's society must be very fluent in English. The majority who see this post would agree. My ancestors put forth a lot of effort to learn the language, and were pretty proud of themselves for having done. However, I do not see that this contradicts the commercial point of view.
Well done.
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If you look at American history, difference and prejudice takes many forms.
In the 1800's it was Italian, German, Norwegian, Irish, Polish, Greek and many of the other homogenized ethnicity that we now consider of European decent.
If we choose, religion can be divisive, Wars have been fought over that too.
Now difference generally means those of a different complexion.
I am a content of the character person. The window dressing means little to me.
If we consider ourselves a melting pot or collage... it really does not matter.
It helps if we speak a same language though, ant this is where people get hung up, is if it is the only language.... and that occurs on both sides, which is frankly closed minded from either perspective.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
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"American Exceptionalism".I believe in it... But from a slightly different viewpoint than one might get from Rush Linbaugh or FOX News' "The Five:" I believe in it, because of what you alluded to in your initial post- -the inscription at the base of the Statue Of Liberty: "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door." ________________________ America's populace has always been a collection of misfits, malcontents and mutts.... and that fact lives at the the very heart of why we are who we are. Most who fight their asses off to come here hail from the most impoverished, persecuted, beaten-down populations that spawned them... but their drive, determination and desire for a better life hones them into the very folks we should WANT as American citizens. Whether they came here from Pakistan, Bangladesh, The Congo, The Balkans or Tibet, they came here because of a supreme act of will... against all odds. Who doesn't like the story of the underdog who makes it? IMHO, this was the genius behind our country's founding... and I credit the Founding Fathers for seeing it (or 'lucking into' it-) when they set this country up: By providing a haven for the world's dregs/victims, America has offered a home to the most driven, dedicated people on Earth.... and THAT has always been the key to 'American Exceptionalism.' The very people who were trashed, thrashed and gashed have become part of a nation that now provides aid and comfort to the very countries that did those people wrong in the first place. Karma be a true bitch- you know? Every immigrant population (except one) that has ever come to our shores has had to overcome the hazing that 'Established America' visits upon them. Italians, Irish, Germans, Greeks, (modern day) Africans, Indians, Asians... you name it- they all emigrate here because of the promise that this nation offers. What's a little "New World Playground Injustice," compared to the struggles they had to endure, just to get to these shores? By our very nature- our makeup... we consistently create the best citizens a planet can provide.When I engage with other Dawgs in conversations like these, I try to never forget this framework, when I post (yet) another offering. It gives me a moral/ethical/political 'center' for the things I share with My DT Homies. I hope that it lends my posts a certain gravitas that allows others to consider my POV... in the same manner as I've considered theirs. The 'boiling/melting pot' is who we are. The 'stew' that makes us America is made of the best that the world can offer. The source of our internal/eternal dissension is the same source that gives us our inherent strengths. Ponder that for a minute, My Dawgs- and you'll see why I don't usually weigh in on the latest 'micro-political' threads.... .02, Clemdawg. ___________________
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Yo creo que cualquier persona que quiere ser parte de la sociedad de este país debe ser bastante fluidez en Inglés.
I will agree with 'should'.
'Must'...not so much.
There is a big part of our society and economy that depends on immigrants, and speaking English isn't necessarily a requirement.
That's semantics, to an extent. But 'must'? Nah.
That's a result of our economy. If you want to be upset about it, which is a valid feeling, be upset at our economic structure, not the people who don't speak English.
If you don't have to extend yourself...you usually don't.
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Quote:
Puedo ver ambos lados de este debate. Yo creo que cualquier persona que quiere ser parte de la sociedad de este país debe ser bastante fluidez en Inglés. La mayoría que ver este post estaría de acuerdo. Mis antepasados poner adelante un gran esfuerzo para aprender el idioma, y estaban bastante orgullosos de sí mismos por haberlo hecho. Sin embargo, no veo que esto contradice ese punto de vista comercial.
__________________
jfan:
I love the fact that I had to work my ass off to understand what you were telling me. The effort made me (imho) a better American/world citizen.
Thank you for that.
For some time, I've been considering Rosetta Stone programs to enhance my ability to converse with other Earthfolks. Amy Chang is a cellist in our section.... it would be most cool to 'drop some Mandarin' on her, when she least expected it!
Additionally, I'd love to go to Italy, Germany, France, Russia, and the Czech Republic to visit the homeplaces of the composers who have meant so much to me... and at least be able to show them a measure of respect that comes from TRYING to learn their languages.
From my experiences, the effort is all that's required... to break down political barriers. Most folks will go more than halfway... if they trust that one's efforts are genuine.
If I can manage that, I've actually made 'Americans' better World Citizens.... and that's important, in this ever-changing world dynamic.
In my POV, that can't be a bad thing, no matter what way you slice it-
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
Quote:
Puedo ver ambos lados de este debate. Yo creo que cualquier persona que quiere ser parte de la sociedad de este país debe ser bastante fluidez en Inglés. La mayoría que ver este post estaría de acuerdo. Mis antepasados poner adelante un gran esfuerzo para aprender el idioma, y estaban bastante orgullosos de sí mismos por haberlo hecho. Sin embargo, no veo que esto contradice ese punto de vista comercial.
This is sad. I use Rosetta Stone way too damn much.
I didn't understand all of it, but I understood at least 80% of this the first time I read it.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,184 Likes: 18
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,184 Likes: 18 |
All of this outrage and arguing over a 30-second advertisement from a company which produces sugar-filled beverages. Fascinating.
I still can't comprehend why people are offended by the commercial, because an American song was sang in different languages?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
Quote:
j/c…
Why don't you guys all go to another country and sing one of their anthems in 'american' and see how it goes?
I suppose we don't really have an identity as a country any more. Maybe we never have.
Michelle, if this was the official national anthem at the beginning of the game, I would be inclined to agree with you... but it wasn't. It was a commercial.
Look at it this way... if I say "I love you"... (which I do by the way.. ) you know what that means.. if I say "Je t'aime"... that means I love you in French, if I say "te amo" that means I love you in Spanish, if I say "Watashi wa, anata o aishite imasu".. that is the very long way to say I love you in Japanese... in any case, what do I love? YOU.
So what difference does it make what language I say "I love America" in? America is still the object of my affection.
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,184 Likes: 18
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,184 Likes: 18 |
Quote:
Quote:
j/c…
Why don't you guys all go to another country and sing one of their anthems in 'american' and see how it goes?
I suppose we don't really have an identity as a country any more. Maybe we never have.
Michelle, if this was the official national anthem at the beginning of the game, I would be inclined to agree with you... but it wasn't. It was a commercial.
Look at it this way... if I say "I love you"... (which I do by the way.. ) you know what that means.. if I say "Je t'aime"... that means I love you in French, if I say "te amo" that means I love you in Spanish, if I say "Watashi wa, anata o aishite imasu".. that is the very long way to say I love you in Japanese... in any case, what do I love? YOU.
So what difference does it make what language I say "I love America" in? America is still the object of my affection.
Where is the "like" button on these boards?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,952 Likes: 30
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,952 Likes: 30 |
That's great. I get it….I really do. I can see BOTH sides of things and happen to lean more toward one than the other. Not sure where all the rude comments and stereotyping are coming from in some of these replies, but it doesn't really surprise me. Nobody really reads what people say anymore…they just assume they know and move on with their own bs. *Unity* Gotta love it.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
Quote:
All of this outrage and arguing over a 30-second advertisement from a company which produces sugar-filled beverages. Fascinating.
I still can't comprehend why people are offended by the commercial, because an American song was sang in different languages?
+1
I thought all the Super Bowl commericals were dumb.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,391
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,391 |
Quote:
Quote:
j/c…
Why don't you guys all go to another country and sing one of their anthems in 'american' and see how it goes?
I suppose we don't really have an identity as a country any more. Maybe we never have.
Michelle, if this was the official national anthem at the beginning of the game, I would be inclined to agree with you... but it wasn't. It was a commercial.
Look at it this way... if I say "I love you"... (which I do by the way.. ) you know what that means.. if I say "Je t'aime"... that means I love you in French, if I say "te amo" that means I love you in Spanish, if I say "Watashi wa, anata o aishite imasu".. that is the very long way to say I love you in Japanese... in any case, what do I love? YOU.
So what difference does it make what language I say "I love America" in? America is still the object of my affection.
Winner. <End of Thread/>
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*In Baker we trust*
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