DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum The Case for trading Victor Martinez.

Before I reply to the thread topic, you are spot on about Garko. Great player, he's tearing up the Sox yet again right now. Love the kids bat. Haven't seen enough (being in Pittsburgh) to know too much about his golve.

As for Martinez. I don't like the idea of trading him at all (he's my favorite player on the team - but it's deeper than that). We NEED his bat. It's currently sorely missed. His defense is weaker - however - Marte and Perhalta are below average fielders. Marte is especially a horrific fielder and also will never be able to hit in the majors (he never could in the minors either). He's a Russell Branyan. Being that the left side is so weak defensively - we need those extra runs. Not only is the left side weak, but we easily have the worst bullpen in the majors (there are single A teams with better bullpens) *side note - Jermaine Dye just made a ridiculous catch to keep it 2-0* Borowski and Hernandez will cost this team a great many games, we need to be up by as many as possible. Combined they are good for 3 per game no matter how long they are in. Due to these factors, I say it's a bad idea to trade him.

Victor isnt the greatest defensive catcher in the world but i would like to keep him because he is a great hitter.i would not mind him moving to first base full time with shoppach as the catcher.He seems to be good enough defensively at first base but more importantly his bat stays in the lineup.

As a general rule, I'm not against sacrificing offense for defense at C, SS, and even CF, but only if you have some mashers at the corners in the infield and outfield - like the '94-'97 Indians. I don't think that's the case for this team. While the Indians do have a logjam of DH/1B types, it is a long season with lots of available at bats for 3 players vying for 2 positions. Hafner has to be in the lineup for all games, except possibly against the very toughest lefties. That leaves Victor, Kelly, and Garko to share C and 1B. At this point in his career, I would sit Garko against most righties and start Victor at 1B. Shoppach would start most games at C, and get spelled by Victor against lefties with Garko going to first. Over the course of the season, Martinez would get his full complement of at bats (500+), while Shoppach and Garko would split around 700 at bats. Given the rest from catching full time, I think Victor would be more effective when he did catch, too.

On the other hand, if a trade WERE inevitable, Brad Lidge is available but I would want more than that for V-Mart.

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At this point in his career, I would sit Garko against most righties and start Victor at 1B. Shoppach would start most games at C, and get spelled by Victor against lefties with Garko going to first.

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Shoppach's career splits:

vs. RHP- 184/231/255
vs. LHP- 268/362/537

So you want to start him against RHP and sit him vs. LHP? How does that make sense? Look, I'm really happy with the job Kelly has done. He's a good defensive catcher and has some power in his bat, but he doesn't deserve the bulk of the PT right now. If I'm managing the Indians, I have Vic at C 6-7 days out of 10, Garko at 1B 7 days out of 10, that gives Vic 4 days away from catching (with possibly a day off in there), Shoppach 30-40% of the PT, and Garko some significant at-bats. People are getting enamored with his arm, but he is hitting .143 right now (lower than the fans' favorite whipping boy of the moment, Andy Marte). Also, if you go by the stats (which don't feel right to me, but are the same on MLB.com and ESPN), Shoppach has only thrown out 1 of 5 would-be basestealers (compared to Vic's 2 of 5 this year). Lets not get ahead of ourselves with Kelly Shoppach. Hes a very good backup/marginal starter right now.

I agree to an extent, like I said above. If Shoppach is catching LHP (plus a day game after a night game), Vic is at 1B vs. LHP, and Garko gets the majority of at-bats against RHP, I'm all for it. The problem right now is that Wedge has tossed Casey Blake into that mix at 1B as well, which made little sense from the start. Blake is fine in the OF (getting back-up time at 3B and defensive sub at 1B late in games), but starting him a majority of the time at 1B is idiotic, IMO.

I don't understand the infatuation some managers have for certain types of players either. Unlike many posters here, I like Blake for his versatility and the pop he sometimes brings to the plate. I think Blake's value may show up at 3B, because I'm not sure Marte is ready for the big time yet. He has some defensive lapses, and his swing is too long, IMO. (Although, in the interest of full disclosure and to further point out my fallibility as a scout - I thought Albert Belle's swing was too long as a young player. What I didn't realize was how fast his hands were ... Duh!)

I absolutely agree that Casey Blake has a role on this team. His role shouldn't be at 1B though. It should be in RF. Signing Trot Nixon pushed Blake to 1B to keep playing time and really hurt the team, IMO, regardless of how well Nixon does. Blake should have stayed in RF, that would have left room for Francisco/Gutierrez to be that late-inning defensive/pinch-runner that could help the team out in some situations.

I don't know if Marte is ready, but I do know that I'm not going to be rushing to judge him. He has been a slow starter throughout the majors, and isn't used to playing in cold weather. He'll never be a .300 hitter, but his defense should be good and he has some good power in his stroke. Plus, right now Blake should not be playing 3B daily. If the offseason goal was to improve the infield defense, it would negate any move to put Blake at 3B and Garko at 1B, IMO.

Should be the players

DH - Hafner
C - Victor Martinez
1B - Garko
2B - Barfield
SS - Perhalta
3B -- WE NEED TO GET A 3rd BASEMAN
LF - WE NEED TO GET A LF
CF - Sizemore
RF - WE NEED TO GET A RF

We lack in all 3 areas.

Blake, Delucci, Nixon - all should ride the bench. We need more everyday players, especially at the 3 positions listed

This is just a thought - a little off the wall - but next spring training, I'd like to see Victor play some 3B. He came up as a SS, and while he is slow afoot, he's pretty quick in his reflexes - you mentioned his ability to block pitches, which takes quicks. I can recall some great 3rd basemen that were slow runners - Brooks Robinson, Graig Nettles, Buddy Bell. Might be worth a try if only to extend Victor's career and to shore up 2 positions defensively.