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So, if we can get the Rams to give up the 2nd pick...
At this point, I believe the Rams will definitely trade the #2 pick, as the player they likely target is either Matthews or Robinson, one of which they could still get by the #6 to #8 picks. If that is who they want, they'd be safe moving down a few spots...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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32, will you please re-post on what it would take to move from 4 to 2 according to the Trade Value Chart, again?
Thanks.
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We are going to need more athletic guards in this system.
The timing is good as we needed to replace our guards this year anyway
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Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.
Zane Beadles, the OG from Denver, would be a great signing.
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I'm not so sure that the Rams are all-in with Bradford. The vote of confidence he got from the GM was pretty half-assed. They might surprise everyone and go QB.
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32, will you please re-post on what it would take to move from 4 to 2 according to the Trade Value Chart, again?
Thanks.
#4 to #2 = Our two first rounders and a 4th,
#4 to #1 = Our two first rounders and our 2nd.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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and fisher would get the QB of HIS choice this time.
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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So, for a second, assuming we try to move up but fail and Manziel and Bridgewater are gone, would you be happy with Bortles at maybe 26 if he's there or that Garapolo (sp) kid in the second?
Do either have a chance? In your opinion that is
I don't see anyone trading with St. Louis after the sham they pulled on the Redskins. The Rams will have to take someone at #2 and I think that it's going to be one of the OTs or Clowney.
So, with that being stated, one of them (Manziel, Bridgewater or Bortles) will be there if the Browns want to draft them. Of the three, I prefer Bortles, but I think that the Browns should try and trade back and acquire more picks.
What would Oakland give to move up one spot if only one of those QBs is there? How about Minnesota moving up from #8 to #4? Would Tennessee move up from #11 to #4 to grab one of them?
It might be even better if there are more than one QB available. Would Oakland move up to #4 to get their preferred QB of the two? If so, would Tennessee then move up to get the remaining QB?
I think there is a decent chance that all three QBs will be available. I can see Clowney and the two OTs going with the first 3 picks leaving all those QBs available.
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and fisher would get the QB of HIS choice this time.
...with nobody to protect him. Rams must go OT; certainly the value is there whether #2 or a few spots lower.
What happens IF: Texans go Clowney, and the Rams go Robinson? Simple, we sit at #4 and take either JB or JM... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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draftek.com here's a link to a draft chart.
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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#4 to #2 = Our two first rounders and a 4th
I would do that. No doubt about it.
Thanks 32. I appreciate it. 
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What happens IF: Texans go Clowney, and the Rams go Robinson? Simple, we sit at #4 and take either JB or JM.
What happens IF: Texans go Teddy, and the Rams go Johnny?
you just don't know WHAT teams are going to do. that's why you need to be aggressive going after any certain player.
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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I'm not so sure that the Rams are all-in with Bradford. The vote of confidence he got from the GM was pretty half-assed. They might surprise everyone and go QB.
That's a possibility and if they did that, it would certainly open up the option for a team to trade for Bradford. What would a team desiring a QB give to acquire him from the Rams? Could the new team take on the salary? He's due $14 million this season and nearly $13 million more, excluding the $7.2 million portion of guaranteed signing bonus still to be paid.
They couldn't cut or trade him last season because of the cap hit they would have taken, $23.3 million. This year, that cap hit goes down to $7.2 million.
So, now it's a possibility that they could get rid of him, but what team would take on the $14 million salary this year and the $13 million next year?
If you're the Browns, do you offer the Rams a 3rd or 4th rounder & Weeden to St. Louis for him? It would essentially be a salary dump for St. Louis, we get rid of Weeden and shell out $2.1 million in guaranteed money to Weeden in the process and they take on his $1.1 and $1.5 salaries for the next two seasons.
The thing is that the Browns wouldn't have any guaranteed money tied up in Bradford. It would all get paid by St. Louis.
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...you just don't know WHAT teams are going to do.
That's true (and it's very early in the process), however, it's what we draftniks do...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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and fisher would get the QB of HIS choice this time.
This. Bradford has been a massive disappointment.
Why continue down that road any longer?
I wouldn't.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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#4 to #2 = Our two first rounders and a 4th
I would do that. No doubt about it.
Thanks 32. I appreciate it.
If I'm moving up (and God knows I would never do that), I'd pay the difference and go to #1 paying the two 1sts and the 2nd and make sure that I get the guy I want. I also don't make the trade until draft day.
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If you're the Browns, do you offer the Rams a 3rd or 4th rounder & Weeden to St. Louis for him?
Assuming we don't keep either Campbell or Weeden, we must acquire a veteran to go along with a draftee QB. I'm OK with Bradford and perhaps I could be persuaded to give more than what you are willing to part with...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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it's what we draftniks do
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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I also don't make the trade until draft day.
You're correct in that, but it might happen a day or two prior. I don't believe at this point, that Houston is moving out of #1...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Didn't the Redskins pay 3 #1's and a #2 to move from the 6th spot to the 2nd spot to get Griffin? If so, they pretty much blew up the draft value chart.
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I don't believe at this point, that Houston is moving out of #1...
if we were talking about A. Luck I would agree. I just don't see the slam dunk in this group to not entertain some legit offers and there's a few teams so hardup for a QB that they may be offering some insane trades for that pick.
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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I forget who said they thought it would take our two 1st's and a second and third rounder to move up
is that really too much? we have 5 picks in the 1st three rds. that would leave us with only two picks and one would be the QB we desperately need.
My feeling is that if we were "ONLY" a QB away, then NO, it's not too much to pay. The trouble with that is, we are more than JUST a QB away. We have holes and it could get worse if we lose Ward and/or Mack in Free Agency
But, let's say we manage to keep Ward and Mack and add a RB and WR to the mix in FA, Then we aren't that far away.Mix in A couple of later round OG's and a LB or two and boom, there you have it. Then I'd say yeah, if you believe in one of those two guys, do it, pull the trigger and get it done. (you also gotta make sure you lock down Haden also)
But for me, there is this Nagging thing bothering me about the top QB's in this draft? But that's probably just me so you can't count that.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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they pretty much blew up the draft value chart.
I think you can kiss that chart goodbye when dealing with the first few spots. teams trading that high are competing with other hardup teams for the same player.
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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Didn't the Redskins pay 3 #1's and a #2 to move from the 6th spot to the 2nd spot to get Griffin? If so, they pretty much blew up the draft value chart.
I believe so, however, most believe now that the Rams took them to the cleaners. It was a bit out-of-line with the chart, but the circumstance was somewhat exceptional. At the time, H&H took a lot of heat for not getting the deal done, but in retrospect, most of us were glad this never happened.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I don't see anyone trading with St. Louis after the sham they pulled on the Redskins. The Rams will have to take someone at #2 and I think that it's going to be one of the OTs or Clowney.
So, with that being stated, one of them (Manziel, Bridgewater or Bortles) will be there if the Browns want to draft them. Of the three, I prefer Bortles, but I think that the Browns should try and trade back and acquire more picks.
I don't think what the Rams did to Washington will play much of a roll in the decision. They got the Second pick if they don't feel like they need a QB then someone will do it if the Rams are willing
As for what you stated if the Texans take Teddy or Johnny and they Rams take a OT or Clowney, you forgot the Jags who very well could need a QB. They could take the one that the Texans don't take.
That leaves us out in the cold for the (supposed) top two guys unless we trade up with them.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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#4 to #2 = Our two first rounders and a 4th
I would do that. No doubt about it.
Thanks 32. I appreciate it.
If I'm moving up (and God knows I would never do that), I'd pay the difference and go to #1 paying the two 1sts and the 2nd and make sure that I get the guy I want. I also don't make the trade until draft day.
It makes no difference what you would do if the Rams are willing to deal and the Texans aren't. I know I'm just pointing out the obvious, but sometimes that fact gets lost in these discussions (not directing that at you.)
The value chart is also just a guide; sometimes teams go significantly under or above it. Thinking the Browns-Jets Sanchez trade and the Rams-Washington here as examples of 'too little' and 'too much'. The pick is worth in a trade what another team is willing to give up.
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I also don't make the trade until draft day.
You're correct in that, but it might happen a day or two prior. I don't believe at this point, that Houston is moving out of #1...
I don't think that they're moving either. The thing about where Houston is sitting at #1, they can draft a QB (which I don't think they'll do), draft an OT (which I think they could) or Clowney. They could also trade back.
Remember, this team was 12-4 the season before last. Expect them to rebound in a big way next season, especially with the #1 overall pick in every round.
I think that what happened was just the anomaly that happens every year. The Browns going 10-6 under Crennel was the reverse anomaly.
Make no bones about it, Houston isn't in a rebuilding year. They have the talent and it was just a really bad year for them. They'll be back in the hunt next season with a very real possibility of leading the AFC South again.
However, with that said, I think that could move out of the #1 spot if they get an offer that they like. I don't think that the Browns need to make any offers. I know it's not popular, but I think they should be considering any offers that they might get.
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I think you can kiss that chart goodbye when dealing with the first few spots.
Generally, I agree, but it does have its' usefulness as a guideline. With the new CBA, the top spots are much more affordable (  ) than previous, thus opening up the top spots for more trades.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Didn't the Redskins pay 3 #1's and a #2 to move from the 6th spot to the 2nd spot to get Griffin? If so, they pretty much blew up the draft value chart.
Well, I thought that it was only a guideline anyway and Dan Snyder is an imbecile anyway and it's costing the Redskins dearly.
If they change the name from Redskins to anything, maybe they should call them the Washington Morons, Washington Imbeciles or Washington Idiots. Of course, those would all be not politically correct. Morons, imbeciles and idiots wouldn't want to be associated with them.
Maybe the Washington Gullibles. Nobody wants to admit to being gullible so there shouldn't be anything wrong with it.
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My feeling is that if we were "ONLY" a QB away, then NO, it's not too much to pay. The trouble with that is, we are more than JUST a QB away
I agree that we have more holes than just QB but they aren't so many holes that we can't fix this offseason. having 6 PB's out of 22 starters should say something about the holes. we can still get a RB with the picks that's left and FA. same as OL, secondary, LB, WR.
we don't know how many of this years picks we would have to use. they could be spread out several years. we just don't know.
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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I don't see anyone trading with St. Louis after the sham they pulled on the Redskins. The Rams will have to take someone at #2 and I think that it's going to be one of the OTs or Clowney.
So, with that being stated, one of them (Manziel, Bridgewater or Bortles) will be there if the Browns want to draft them. Of the three, I prefer Bortles, but I think that the Browns should try and trade back and acquire more picks.
I don't think what the Rams did to Washington will play much of a roll in the decision. They got the Second pick if they don't feel like they need a QB then someone will do it if the Rams are willing
As for what you stated if the Texans take Teddy or Johnny and they Rams take a OT or Clowney, you forgot the Jags who very well could need a QB. They could take the one that the Texans don't take.
That leaves us out in the cold for the (supposed) top two guys unless we trade up with them.
That could be right, but I think that Jacksonville could be taking one of the two tackles. I know, they took one last year, but then traded away Monroe. Their OT spots are still a problem.
If the Jaguars go QB and one of the tackles is there, the Browns should highly consider taking them.
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#4 to #2 = Our two first rounders and a 4th
I would do that. No doubt about it.
Thanks 32. I appreciate it.
If I'm moving up (and God knows I would never do that), I'd pay the difference and go to #1 paying the two 1sts and the 2nd and make sure that I get the guy I want. I also don't make the trade until draft day.
IF you are moving up to #1, why wait until draft day? IF you have a guy that you really want AND the Texans are agreeable to a reasonable deal, what is the point of waiting? No other team can say hey we want so and so then trade up ahead of us to get the guy we want. There is no one ahead of us to trade with. All waiting does is give other teams an opportunity to trump our offer.
I can see waiting to move up to #2. If you have one guy that you like, you want to make sure that he is available at that pick. If you like 2 guys fairly similarly and much more than anyone else then go ahead and trade up to #2 now. Then be happy with which ever of your 2 favorites that falls to you because you know that at least one will be available to you when you are on the clock.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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it may be the Texans that do the waiting so other offers can come in.
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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I have to wonder if Farmer would even want to come out swingin the trade guns on his first draft.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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It was a bit out-of-line with the chart, but the circumstance was somewhat exceptional.
To the contrary, IMO they set the new benchmark for moving up to get the player you believe will transform your franchise. The question then becomes, is Manziel analogous to Robert Griffin III? I don't think he is. I think Griffin had a better arm, was faster, bigger (legit 6-2+, 220), and no character / maturity concerns (at that time, at least). I didn't want to make that deal because I thought his style of play would get him killed, and it did (figuratively speaking). I don't want to trade up for anyone except maybe Bridgewater. Some fans will say we dropped the ball if all three top QBs go before we pick, but the truth will be we just didn't suck enough in 2013 to get the top QB. I'll be very happy if we get Watkins, an ILB or CB at 26, Garoppolo in the 2nd, and Hyde in the 3rd. I think Jimmy G. matches whats being reported as Shanahan's scheme very well.
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All waiting does is give other teams an opportunity to trump our offer.
True, to a point. The closer draft day comes, and no trading partners have surfaced, the "cheaper" it becomes to make the trade...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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it may be the Texans that do the waiting so other offers can come in.
Knox: Do you really think the Texans will get a serious offer, or merely inquiries?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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as bad as this town wants a QB? he would be a fool not to even try. 
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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I'm sure they will get very serious offers. will it be enough for them is the question.
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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