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This topic may have been beaten to death, but I'm curious are we starting to see a change in trend? Seattle won the Super Bowl with Russel Wilson at QB. We all know he was not the star of show. That is not to downplay his performance literately stating the truth.
Last several years every NFL team strive getting the best QB in the draft. Has Seattle and Baltimore these last two years prove you can win with an average QB? Have offensive coordinators adapted offensive play without superstar QB's? 49er's last two years made the NFC championship and one Super Bowl with Kaepernick. Colin, who is not a world beater, has shown you can win football games not having a super star.
Here us fans look at the 2014 draft thinking Browns go all in for either John Manziel or Teddy Bridgewater. Something tells me we may once again be on a different page then the Browns. Do to our lack of knowledge, we simply don't see true talent.
One last point QB's such as Kirk Cousins and Nick Foles have emerged as potential starters. Has the tide changed on QB's in the NFL? At one time in the NFL, teams won having a great offensive line and/or outstanding play makers. It used to be QB's were the field general who orchestrated the pieces. The whole concept of WCO was to adapt to a weaker arm QB. Run and shoot was designed to help a mobile QB. Shotgun was designed to help the non-mobile QB which today has evolved into the spread. Today we have the pistol and read-action helping beginning QB be productive.
This is not to say it has changed so much teams can win with any drafted QB. I'm nearly pointing out teams can win with either an athletic or mentally gifted players. Teams need simply supply the appropriate talent to complement the QB.
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Russell Wilson doesn't get nearly enough credit. He is a stud. 100+ QB rating both years and it's not like there is tons of talent on the offense. Teams have to respect the threat to run, both on scrambles and as part of the read option. The O-line was ravaged with injuries early in the year. Okung was on temporary IR, Harvin only played part of one regular season game, and yet footballoutsiders still had the Seahawks as the 7th most efficient offense in the league.
I know it helps to have a great RB and helps a ton to have a great D, but consider that it's a lot easier to find a franchise QB than it is to build Seattle's defense. Still, the Seahawks might not have even made the playoffs this year if they were still starting Tavaris Jackson or had went with Flynn. Cardinals missed this year at 10-6. (edit: and I believe would have missed at 11-5 as well.)
Flacco isn't great but he did play great during the post-season last year. And let's not forget that Brady, Manning, and Roeth have won AFC like 10 out of the last 11 times. That is pretty amazing actually.
Last edited by hasugopher; 02/08/14 01:10 PM.
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Quote:
Last several years every NFL team strive getting the best QB in the draft. Has Seattle and Baltimore these last two years prove you can win with an average QB?
Baltimore won because Flacco played so well. He had 11 TDs and no INTs during Baltimore's Super Bowl run last year.
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Colin [Kaepernick], who is not a world beater, has shown you can win football games not having a super star.
Kaepernick is a world beater. I would put him in the top ten QBs in the league. He can make every throw, takes care of the ball, and is probably the best running QB in the league right now.
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One last point QB's such as Kirk Cousins and Nick Foles have emerged as potential starters.
Cousins hasn't emerged as anything. Foles had 27 TDs and 2 INTs, he is a franchise QB.
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Teams need simply supply the appropriate talent to complement the QB.
This has always been true.
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hasugopher, first, you would not mistakenly compare Russel Wilson with Payton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees. Second, I am not saying Russel Wilson is a weak quarterback.
Russel has used the escape pocket collapse effectively allowing him to succeed.
As I said, I do not think the NFL has done so well they can pull any Joe off the street and turn him into a starting QB. You have to have some talent.
What I am really saying is NFL does not need the complete package in a QB to be competitive.
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Quote:
This topic may have been beaten to death, but I'm curious are we starting to see a change in trend?
Are you referring to the fact that the two states that have legalized recreational marijuana were both in the Superbowl? Coincidence? 
To your topic: I believe that Wilson, in past years, might have been viewed as a "game manager-type". To a degree Flacco as well. What is different, or maybe a trend as you stated it, or could be a trend forthcoming, is that a guy like Wilson has mad skills starting with his mental understanding of the game. Understanding defenses & coverages in my opinion tops the list of quarterback skills necessary to be a franchise QB.
Couple the mental aspect with good accuracy and there's your guy. If he's athletic enough to scramble that's a big plus. But what Wilson has in spades is the mental aspect.
I think that could become a trend. Size and big arm don't count nearly so much. Hell, Weeden has those two things. What matters most is a football brain.
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What's changing is people returning back to balance wins the majority of the time. If your the best at something eventually someone will figure out how to stop you and then what? If your good in every facet your pretty dang hard to figure out. You can take an advantage anywhere at any time.
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Kaepernick is a world beater. I would put him in the top ten QBs in the league. He can make every throw, takes care of the ball, and is probably the best running QB in the league right now.
You're giving him way more credit than he deserves. There is one part of your post I agree with - he's probably the best running QB in the league right now. 23 starts - less than 60% completion, 15 fumbles, but a good TD:Int ratio. That is with a ton of talent around him (top 5 or 10 OL, Frank Gore, Vernon Davis, Anquan Bolden, and I'll even add a decent Michael Crabtree and a great defense that can bail him out).
He disappears for stretches, sometimes quarters during games. Other games, he's lights out brilliant. At critical junctures, he tends to fall apart - the NFC Championship game being the latest, almost single handedly giving the game to Seattle. Check out the Carolina game this year, or Saints. In a nutshell, he's a boom/bust guy, and you don't know what you're gonna get during any game.
That being said, if he puts it all together, he's got the potential to be a top 5 QB in the league...
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Joe Flacco played out of his mind during his postseason run. It was arguably one of the GOAT runs for a QB. I'm failing to see your argument.
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j/c
I'm not sure how Kapernick gets such rave review besides the fact that he has a good TD to INT ratio and he ran the ball for 937 yards in 32 regular season games.
in 2013 he threw the ball 243 times his completion percent is 58.4% he averages 7.69 yards and he managed to throw for 3197 yards in a season
in 32 games he has thrown
5046 yards
31 td's
and11 Ints
he averages at 15.5 td's in 16 games and he averages throwing the ball about 157 yards a game with about 20 pass attempts a game.
How is he a top 10 QB? how is he the reason the team is winning?
meanwhile Peyton Manning threw for
over 10,136 yards 92 Td's and 21 Ints. with 39 pass attempts a game and an average of 316 yards and 2.88 Td's a game.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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The Bengals would be a pretty solid refutation to the notion that you can have a superstar team and get by with a shaky quarterback.
Manning was lights out this season. But for whatever reason he isn't really that good in the playoffs. They had a lousy defense (I think?) and made the superbowl.
There are a bunch of QBs in the league who I think are good enough to win it all. Maybe 15-20. Sadly we Brownies have never been in that group outside of maybe Anderson in 2007. When we are talking about elite QBs it becomes really hard to distinguish the top 5 guys vs. the top 15 guys. They are all pretty dang good. I'd say Manning is the best but I don't really trust him in the postseason.
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Quote:
This topic may have been beaten to death, but I'm curious are we starting to see a change in trend? Seattle won the Super Bowl with Russel Wilson at QB. We all know he was not the star of show. That is not to downplay his performance literately stating the truth.
I don't know Bugs.. while I agree that Russell wasn't the catalyst for the super bowl win, or I should say, not the ONLY catalyst, but he did just about everything right. He didn't screw up at all. And he didn't JUST manage the game. He was a integral part of the win. He was a Play Maker.
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Here us fans look at the 2014 draft thinking Browns go all in for either John Manziel or Teddy Bridgewater. Something tells me we may once again be on a different page then the Browns. Do to our lack of knowledge, we simply don't see true talent.
They are, after all, the professionals. The guys that get paid to make the right choices. So I would hope they know more than any of us fans....  That hasn't always turned out to be true however.
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One last point QB's such as Kirk Cousins and Nick Foles have emerged as potential starters. Has the tide changed on QB's in the NFL?
Happens all the time. Schaub, Flynn, Foles, Cousins.. Hell man, the history of the NFL is riddled with guys like that . Some have worked out well. Foles for one, Favre for another. Heck even Jake Delhomme had a couple of good years.
I can't wait to find out if Hoyer is a name we can add to that list.
To sum up my thoughts, No, I don't think the importance of the QB is changing. Not at all.
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What's changing is people returning back to balance wins the majority of the time. If your the best at something eventually someone will figure out how to stop you and then what? If your good in every facet your pretty dang hard to figure out. You can take an advantage anywhere at any time.
This, "balance," more than anything, I feel, is returning. Look at Seattle: average OL; average receivers (ok, Percy Harvin, but he didn't play all year); Lynch is a power runner not a complete package blocking; catching; running; TE's are nothing you must have, and having a well rounded defense helps. If you wanted to duplicate, what offensive players do you look for to make work in Cleveland?
Everyone is stating Russell Wilson is the second coming. Yep, that is why he went in the third round. You can say height, but someone desperate for a QB knowing Wilson's credentials would take a chance first or second. Russell has a unique skill set I'm not sure you can duplicate. It is same argument we stated when Colt McCoy was drafted. Surround him with the right talent and it is possible. No, I'm not comparing McCoy to Wilson. They both had a unique skill set given the right atmosphere they can succeed.
As Fans, are we putting this Brady/Brees/Manning figure of a QB as a must have to win? Do we give any QB long enough to develop such as Brees? How many here are going to go ape ship when they don't trade up to get Manziel or Bridgewater, or for that matter, trade down getting someone no one expected. Drafting a QB in the second or third round no one here rates having talent? Remember Banner stated he is using Seattle as a guide.
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I don't believe you can dismiss defense. While Wilson isn't the "prototypical NFL QB', what he has is a fantastic running game and the #1 D, bar none, in the NFL. As has been mentioned, Flacco had the best run of his career during their SB run last season. It was that superb play that caused the Rats to win that SB. By contrast, he went back to the normal Flacco this season and we saw the results of that. If you have the supporting cast that Wilson had, you don't have to be a "superstar QB". But I do believe Wilson is a better QB than your post indicated. His vision, reading D's and escapability are superb attributes. Now I do believe the QB position is evolving in the NFL. I believe the pure pocket QB's will soon be a thing of the past. But in the same breath, other attributes are needed in order to do this. You see those attributes in QB's such as Kapernich and Wilson. I agree with you to a point that it is a team sport. The QB isn't the only position on the field. But the better the QB, the better your odds of success. The better the QB.... well, the better!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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hasugopher, first, you would not mistakenly compare Russel Wilson with Payton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees. Second, I am not saying Russel Wilson is a weak quarterback.
Russel has used the escape pocket collapse effectively allowing him to succeed.
As I said, I do not think the NFL has done so well they can pull any Joe off the street and turn him into a starting QB. You have to have some talent.
What I am really saying is NFL does not need the complete package in a QB to be competitive.
I agree with you, bugs. But, you'll find most posters here finding that a QB that knows how to play the position but isn't a premier QB simply won't be good enough. They wouldn't have even considered someone like Nick Foles or Russell Wilson two years ago or Mike Glennon last year. I know, Glennon was 4-9 last season, but it wasn't because of his lack of production. He had 19 TDs, 9 INTs.
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What's changing is people returning back to balance wins the majority of the time. If your the best at something eventually someone will figure out how to stop you and then what? If your good in every facet your pretty dang hard to figure out. You can take an advantage anywhere at any time.
Well, teams that have flexibility in their game plan will win. A team that is one-sided, with Peyton Manning at the helm or not, will always be susceptible.
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Kaepernick is a world beater. I would put him in the top ten QBs in the league. He can make every throw, takes care of the ball, and is probably the best running QB in the league right now.
You're giving him way more credit than he deserves. There is one part of your post I agree with - he's probably the best running QB in the league right now. 23 starts - less than 60% completion, 15 fumbles, but a good TD:Int ratio. That is with a ton of talent around him (top 5 or 10 OL, Frank Gore, Vernon Davis, Anquan Bolden, and I'll even add a decent Michael Crabtree and a great defense that can bail him out).
He disappears for stretches, sometimes quarters during games. Other games, he's lights out brilliant. At critical junctures, he tends to fall apart - the NFC Championship game being the latest, almost single handedly giving the game to Seattle. Check out the Carolina game this year, or Saints. In a nutshell, he's a boom/bust guy, and you don't know what you're gonna get during any game.
That being said, if he puts it all together, he's got the potential to be a top 5 QB in the league...
But they do have a lot of picks, including another 2nd rounder from KC for Alex Smith, to add into the mix.
And Alex Smith is no slouch either.
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I don't believe you can dismiss defense. While Wilson isn't the "prototypical NFL QB', what he has is a fantastic running game and the #1 D, bar none, in the NFL.
As has been mentioned, Flacco had the best run of his career during their SB run last season. It was that superb play that caused the Rats to win that SB. By contrast, he went back to the normal Flacco this season and we saw the results of that.
If you have the supporting cast that Wilson had, you don't have to be a "superstar QB". But I do believe Wilson is a better QB than your post indicated. His vision, reading D's and escapability are superb attributes. Now I do believe the QB position is evolving in the NFL. I believe the pure pocket QB's will soon be a thing of the past. But in the same breath, other attributes are needed in order to do this. You see those attributes in QB's such as Kapernich and Wilson.
I agree with you to a point that it is a team sport. The QB isn't the only position on the field. But the better the QB, the better your odds of success. The better the QB.... well, the better!
Trust me Pitt I more than most prefer to build a winning team via the defense. In school, I played on the defensive side of the ball, so I'm a little bias. I can certainly put up a strong debate a solid defense wins.
With that said, I wanted to stay focus on offense. My philosophy has always been balance. There was a big debate on Cleveland.com board during the time Bradford was drafted regarding the importance of QB. Everyone agreed you need a quality QB. It strung out type of QB needed.
I will disagree a pocket-passer is a thing of the past. What is a thing of the past is no one coaches up a pocket passer. You will never beat a quality pocket-passer, and it is way harder to defend. You don't know what is coming until it happens...seven step...five step...three step...WCO options...run plays. Roll-out QB shorten the field. Shotgun/spread creates limits require more gadgets and movement. With the league limiting practice time, it becomes extremely more difficult.
As for your comment on Flacco, he had so many weapons and a heck of OL. Very similar to New England with its myriad of weapons. This has been debated heavily too. Is it the QB or is it play makers. I think it all boils down to what you want to run with focus on QB. I think it is much harder having a team of play makers then find a QB. Get the QB first add talent around that enhances his strengths. Watch Cincinnati. As those TE's, "Y" receivers, rookie running back develops you will see a much better Dalton. Look where Cincinnati concentrated talent: big "Y" receiver; big TE's; and quick RB all the making of a weak arm QB. Once they prefect the short game, Green will be a monster with single coverage.
By the way, can you describe the support cast for Wilson? Lynch, when healthy, is effective. Harvin missed the season. Miller, TE, had his worst year. That leaves Tate and Rice. I think I heard Rice is gone come FA time. Frankly, Wilson could be the stud everyone states when talent around improves.
I will say this this draft will be exciting. No one had a clue last year what Banner and Lombardi were going to do. I can not foresee anything changing this year.
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hasugopher, first, you would not mistakenly compare Russel Wilson with Payton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees. Second, I am not saying Russel Wilson is a weak quarterback.
Russel has used the escape pocket collapse effectively allowing him to succeed.
As I said, I do not think the NFL has done so well they can pull any Joe off the street and turn him into a starting QB. You have to have some talent.
What I am really saying is NFL does not need the complete package in a QB to be competitive.
I wouldn't put RW into that category, no. At least not yet.
When you say that you don't need the complete package in a QB to be competitive, that makes it sound very different than the tone in the OP where you were asking if SEA and BAL have proven you can win [the SB?] with an average QB. Yes I think you can be competitive with bad QB play, no I don't think teams have a reasonable chance at winning a SB with an average QB.
You see completely stacked teams that are hindered by poor QB play from time to time. It is rare that they win a playoff game. I'm thinking Vikings before Brett Favre had his magical year, Jeff Fisher's Titans with CJ2K, Bengals the last 3 seasons, even the 2011 Broncos. Ok the latter won a playoff game, but they also snuck into the playoffs at 8-8 with a ridiculously weak schedule. There are many more examples.
People like extremes. It's either that the QB is just another player, no more important than the rest, and you can win as long as the collective talent on the team is really good, and they find examles to prove that point.
The other extreme is the people who say that the only thing that matters is the QB; everything else is irrelevant. That is silly.
The QB is by far the single most important player on the field but there are 52 other players on the team and all of them are important. Coaching is also important. So yeah sometimes the team with the worse QB wins, it should be expected sometimes, but the overall trend is that the teams that are successful... who win a lot of games and go deep into the playoffs year after year, usually have the best QBs as well. Or at least good QBs.
Go back and look at the AFC champions for the last 11 years.
The NFC is a little more complicated. Based on my comments, you would expect Green Bay and New Orleans to be the class of the NFC (well, they both HAVE won Super Bowls recently), but I think it shows you that mediocre teams with great QBs don't usually do so well against completely stacked teams with just very good QBs. Also, everyone is familiar with QB rating and it makes it a nice, easy way to compare QBs but there is so much that it doesn't tell you, and one of those things is the positive effect that a mobile QB has on the game. Defenses can't play the same way vs Kaep as they can vs Drew Brees.
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hasugopher, not to downplay your post. You bring valid points. I want to touch on one specific thing. Everyone claims this is throwing league. Yet last several years defensive teams triumphed more in the super bowl:
2014: Seattle - Defense
2013: Baltimore - Defense
2012: NY Giants - Defense
2011: Green Bay - Offense
2010: New Orleans: Offense
2009: Pittsburgh: Defense
2008: NY Giants - Defense
2007: Indianapolis Colts - Offense
2006: Pittsburgh - Defense
There is certainly an argument having a strong defense. There is also a strong argument having an above average QB too.
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I think Flacco is an exception. He got hot and Denver choked against the Rats in that wild playoff game.
I think Wilson is very underrated. He isn't flashy, but he is extremely intelligent. I also think it is wrong to just look at Super Bowl winners. I think you should look at good teams.
I think the change is this:
---you have to be very football intelligent. Defenses are complex. Guys are fast. QBs have to decipher a lot of information both pre and post snap. That is why I want either Teddy or Manziel.
---you have to have some mobility and at least buy yourself time in the pocket. I think the guys who just stand still in the pocket are going the way of the dinosaurs.
---throwing w/anticipation is becoming more important in today's faaaaast NFL.
I do think having a very good QB is huge. Nothing is changing there.
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Quote:
hasugopher, not to downplay your post. You bring valid points. I want to touch on one specific thing. Everyone claims this is throwing league. Yet last several years defensive teams triumphed more in the super bowl:
2014: Seattle - Defense
2013: Baltimore - Defense
2012: NY Giants - Defense
2011: Green Bay - Offense
2010: New Orleans: Offense
2009: Pittsburgh: Defense
2008: NY Giants - Defense
2007: Indianapolis Colts - Offense
2006: Pittsburgh - Defense
There is certainly an argument having a strong defense. There is also a strong argument having an above average QB too.
Of course there is a good argument to having a strong defense. Why wouldn't there be? Defense is half the game. (ok, less in the NFL, since you have to account for special teams)
There is no reason why it has to be mutually exclusive though. Those SB winners mostly used 1 pick on their QB (NYG used 3 I think for Eli Manning) so it's not like pursuing a franchise QB puts the kabosh on improving your defense.
Also I question the whole labeling offense or defense. Most SB winners are good at both and I think assigning the recent SB wins to the Giants and Ravens defense has more to do with reputation than what was actually happening on the field. Both had explosive and effective passing offenses.
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Firstly I'll say that what I was referring to as Wilsons supporting cast was in reference to the D and running game. The games didn't rest solely on the shoulders of the QB.
I'll also say, although the list above "claims" the Ravens won in 2013 due to defense, I strongly disagree. Flacco played out of his mind down the stretch and during the playoffs. The Ravens were barely a .500 team until that time. It was Flaccos hot streak that did it for the Rats, not their D.
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I would also add that a team needs general competence on both sides of the ball in order to win a championship. A team can't go into the playoffs with a great QB and a lousy defense and expect to have a better than even chance of winning. All of the various parts of the team have to contribute to some extent.
I agree with you on Flacco last year as well.
On their playoff run, the Ravens scored 24, 38, 28, and 34. Their defense allowed 9, 35, 13, and 31. Their offense was consistent, and their defense anything but.
In the playoffs, (4 games) Flacco threw 11 TD passes and no INT.The Ravens, as a team, ran for only 3 TD in the 4 playoff games.
He was the driving force behind their Super Bowl run. Ray lewis got a ton of credit for coming back and inspiring the Ravens ...... but their offense had a whole lot more to do with them winning it all than the defense did.
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Every few years, a defense will come along and win a championship for a team.
A team needs competent QB play to succeed. Even if you discount the teams (Steelers, Giants) you really have to go back to the 2000 Ravens to find a team that has won the SB with less than average QB play.
Another way to look at it... The teams that had terrible QB play this year... Houston, Jacksonville, Cleveland, Oakland, Minnesota, and where are they drafting.... Only Atlanta and Detroit had better than average QB play and are drafting in the top 10.
How many times have we said That [Insert Tom Brady, Payton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers] is a pretty good QB, too bad he never makes the playoffs....
And do we need to discuss the Manningless Colts of 2012....
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Quote:
hasugopher, not to downplay your post. You bring valid points. I want to touch on one specific thing. Everyone claims this is throwing league. Yet last several years defensive teams triumphed more in the super bowl:
2014: Seattle - Defense
2013: Baltimore - Defense
2012: NY Giants - Defense
2011: Green Bay - Offense
2010: New Orleans: Offense
2009: Pittsburgh: Defense
2008: NY Giants - Defense
2007: Indianapolis Colts - Offense
2006: Pittsburgh - Defense
There is certainly an argument having a strong defense. There is also a strong argument having an above average QB too.
Baltimore defense was not good last year. Why do people keep assuming this? It's usually the same people that say the AFC North is still run dominant. They go by reputation. Also Eli Manning played at a very high level during the Giants 2nd Super Bowl run.
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j/c
We can say Flacco played out of mind, but in the end, he played well enough to get there. We have seen Eli Manning do it twice. Yet no one ever includes his name on the list of great QB's. For that matter, you can say the same for Big Ben. I would add Russel Wilson to this list at this time, but Russel still has lot of development time left.
To me, I feel today's NFL has put to much emphasis into the QB position. What I can't determine if it is hype or simply rule changes. On the flip side, where is the cutoff of talent needed in a QB. Seahawks, 49er's, and Bengals know more than all the others in the NFL? After all they all got their man after the first round. You can say it is luck when one team does it, but now there are three.
For those who say Dalton is terrible, he made back to back playoff trips. That is two more than the Browns, and they drafted several "top" ranked QB's.
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You can make a perfectly good point there without including Dalton and the Bengals. The Bengals are stacked and would be SB contenders with a good QB. They have also had good coaches and continuity to hold it all together. Dalton will be their downfall though. That and cheapo Mike Brown letting good players leave in free agency. The coordinators leaving for head coaching jobs won't help either.
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Quote:
You can make a perfectly good point there without including Dalton and the Bengals. The Bengals are stacked and would be SB contenders with a good QB. They have also had good coaches and continuity to hold it all together. Dalton will be their downfall though. That and cheapo Mike Brown letting good players leave in free agency. The coordinators leaving for head coaching jobs won't help either.
hasugopher, don't forget many of those play makers were rookies. They make rookie mistakes. Give it another year before you can totally place blame on Dalton. I'll bet those errors shrink next year.
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Quote:
Quote:
You can make a perfectly good point there without including Dalton and the Bengals. The Bengals are stacked and would be SB contenders with a good QB. They have also had good coaches and continuity to hold it all together. Dalton will be their downfall though. That and cheapo Mike Brown letting good players leave in free agency. The coordinators leaving for head coaching jobs won't help either.
hasugopher, don't forget many of those play makers were rookies. They make rookie mistakes. Give it another year before you can totally place blame on Dalton. I'll bet those errors shrink next year.
This is what Bengals' fans said in 2011, and again in 2012......"Let's give Daulton another year."
Sorry, but Daulton deserves the blame now....It's not the Bengals rookies that justify any excuses.It's Daulton poor decision making and his ability to get rattled very easily and quickly. He's too inconsistent.
The Bengals have been poised to make a serious run in the AFC playoffs but have been held back by Daulton's performance when it was on the line. The have one of the deepest teams, arguably the best defensive line, great linebackers, an excellent offensive line, two very good RBs that complement themselves nicely, and an above average secondary WHEN healthy. Daulton stopped the Bengals in their tracks in big games and plays too inconsistent.
The Bengals' brass won't tell you this.....but they are very concerned about their QB situation and their time is running out with the players they have on their roster...many are up for huge deals. Michael Johnson for example this March but in 2015- AJ Green, Domata Peko, Jermaine Gresham, Rey Maulauga, BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Andy Daulton, Terrance Neumann, Clinto Boling, Vonteze Burfict....just to name a few.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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The Bengals have one of the most talented rosters in the entire NFL. If I were them, I would go all in on moving up to grab a QB like Bridgewater. Their window won't last forever and they aren't going to reach their goals if they stick w/Daulton.
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Sorry, but Daulton deserves the blame now....
It's gotten so bad that Dalton's family evidently forced him to change his name to "Daulton" just so they wouldn't be associated with him any more ........ 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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jc.
i didn't want to make another thread about it. but for you guys on the board:
think about all the QB's we have had since 99. i, for one, find it hard to believe all of them could be that bad because it was them and not the scheme.
i guess my question is....when i think of all our QB's, it seems like they wait to throw the ball when the WR is open, instead of timing and anticipation. so...is that something can be taught or is that talent?
like....i understand manning goes off of timing patterns, and of course some of it is choosing open WR's...but has our QB's all failed because of the talent? or the scheme?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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IMO the only QB we have had that possessed the tools to become a great QB was Couch.
That said though I do think our lack of surrounding talent and inconsistency throughout the organization would make it difficult for any QB to succeed.
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true.
it's just...man i look at the year we went 10-6. was Anderson that good or was Braylon and Kellen absolutely demolishing the defense that they were ALWAYS open? what was our OL rank that year?
it's like...man i think some of our recent QB's...maybe not Weeden, but like McCoy would've been good quality QB's if we would've used a lot more timing routes.
Last edited by Swish; 02/09/14 10:12 PM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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... or was Braylon and Edwards absolutely demolishing the defense that they were ALWAYS open?
.....not any more than Kellen or Winslow.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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lmao, my bad i meant them.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Quote:
true.
it's just...man i look at the year we went 10-6. was Anderson that good or was Braylon and Kellen absolutely demolishing the defense that they were ALWAYS open? what was our OL rank that year?
it's like...man i think some of our recent QB's...maybe not Weeden, but like McCoy would've been good quality QB's if we would've used a lot more timing routes.
With the QB prospects this year this has been beaten to death but I truly believe it's an internal thing. How you deal with pressure, natural hand eye coordination and your ability to process information quickly.
I loved Colt as a guy and even as a skill set. He just always seemed skittish. He froze and more often than not lacked confidence. Nothings an exact science. Our brains are so complex the smallest things can ruin a man to no fault of his own. It how, of all the men who played football, only 10 or so are effective at the highest level.
As far as the 10-6 season it really is puzzling. Theres so many things that could have been the cause that it's hard to pinpoint. Not to mention we won 3 games off of the force out rule if I recall. It really goes to show what confidence and momentum can do in football compared to any other sport.
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Timid sucked butt.
He was timid in the pocket. He checked down way too much. Had nervous feet and his mechanics fell apart when pressured. Carr was similar to him and his little brother is their clone.
Never draft a sissy QB.
Anderson is the one guy who could have made it. The fans hated him because they wanted Bwady. Unfortunately, DA was not emotionally strong enough to overcome the adversity. He was mentally weak.
Garcia could have helped us, but the media and fans hated him. He was never the long term answer but had good years before and after Cleveland.
Holcomb was okay, but he had to battle all the Timid fans. His talent was limited. It was a no win situation.
Other than that............our QBs have been dreadful.
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Tim Couch was talent, you say he checked down, I say he (and Carr) were ruined by HORRIBLE offensive lines..
If you start to believe you only have so much time, you will get rid of the ball regardless of how much time you have..
Garcia was a system QB, he was good in SF, sucked here and in Det and was good in Philly.. WCO purely..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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well, we have a OL now, at least pass protection.
my thing is this: whatever QB we have starting, unless our OL magically falls apart, doesn't have the excuse of having a bad OL.
Hoyer had what a average of 2.7 something sec before the ball was out?
have we EVER had a QB on this team that made quick, and for the most part good decisions?
but then...is that scheme? was that what ALL the QB's last year was suppose to be doing?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Is the importance of QB changing?
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