If Manziel is the guy, it's not going to send me off the deep end, I just don't believe (IMHO) that he's as highly rated by Farmer as he is by some of the fan base and several Cleveland media types.
If we do draft him, it may not necessarily be a bad thing. He does have skills and he does have a certain "it" factors. My two major concerns with him are durability and a floaty deep ball. Ultimately, durability may prove to never be a factor, only time will tell. As far as the floaty deep ball, that scares the crap outta me, but if he can find the open man, and put the ball on the money for the other 90% of the plays, it may be something we could live with. I don't think, like many, he'll be as successful or as elusive running around with the ball to extend plays as he was in college, but I do like the potential it brings when needed. His mobility will absolutely be an asset if he learns to stay in the pocket until it's necessary that he run.
Bottom line, I honestly don't believe we will draft him nor do I want us to, but if we do, I'll certainly get behind him.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski
"Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield
From what I have seen and read of Garopollo, he is an intriguing guy. Good though not great arm, excellent accuracy and ball placement, quick set up, snappy, quick release, solid mechanics ..... and he seems to have solid football intelligence. He looks like a guy who has everything you would want in an NFL QB.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: How much have you "seen" of Garopolla? Seriously?
I have seen highlights, and the East West Shrine Game, and that's about it. I caught a little of the Senior Bowl, but didn't see Garopolla. I have made no secret of the fact that I am not a real expert in this year's draft. I know certain players and have strong opinions about some, like Clowney, but I going by reports on most. (at least for the most part)
What is your take on Garopolla?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I like sarcasm. I really do. And I appreciate the sarcasm you just used w/me. LOL.......that was pretty good.
With that said, I don't think you are getting what I am saying. Watkins would be our NUMBER 2 WR. Gordon is our # 1 WR. And you want to use the fourth overall pick on a #2 WR?
Now, may I use a little sarcasm on you? Thanks.
We don't need a franchise QB. Why in the world would we want a QB. They aren't important in the NFL. They are not nearly as important as a #2 WR. In fact, we are set w/Weeden, Campbell, and a guy who has played two complete games.
He is intriguing in some ways. His arm is strong enough. He can move in the pocket. He has a quick release. He has pretty good size.
On the other hand, he has some real issues. His release point is way too low and he will get a lot of passes tipped or blocked at the next level. He gets happy feet at times. While he is mobile in the pocket, he becomes inaccurate when having to scramble. He really needs to reset his feet. My biggest beef is that he forces the ball into tight windows and I feel he will be intercepted a lot in the NFL. You have to remember that he has played against inferior competition. The NFL coverages are way more sophisticated and the defenders break on the ball much faster.
I wouldn't mind having him as a back-up and a way-down-the-road starter if we already were set at qb for the next 4-5 years, but the reality of the situation is that our QB position is not settled.
We are in excellent position to draft a franchise qb. We may not be in this position again. People are complaining about giving up too much to move from 4 to 2, while we have all kinds of extra picks. What will it cost us if we have to move up from 15--20 and be w/out extra picks?
Do you really want to take a flyer like we did w/Colt or Frye and hope they work out, or do you want to suck it up and take the highest rated qbs in this draft? I think it is a no-brainer, but for some odd reason, it seems like most of the board doesn't agree.
The killer is that when those same people defended Chud, the first thing they brought up was what coach could win w/our QBs? Interesting..........very interesting, indeed!
I think Evans could end up the best player in this draft. When I hear these guys like Casserly questioning johny's decision making cause he would throw it up for grabs, it cracks me up. Throwing it up for grabs on third down 40 yards downfield to a guy that may have the strongest set of hands I have seen out of a receiver, isnt bad decision making.
If we take Evans at 4 I would not complain. Hell its hard to complain about any of these top 15. Bortles is the only one projected top 20 that I really think is vastly overrated. It has made me smile from ear to ear hearing that both the Jags and Texans love Bortles. I dont think he is in the same league right now with Johny, Bridgewater and Carr. He has size and mobility but he doesnt have accuracy and watching him throw a wet ball was painful.
Quote: People are freaking out about drafting Manziel or Teddy, yet they are perfectly okay w/drafting a #2 WR w/the 4th overall pick.
Please explain the logic behind that.
I don't know anyone freaking out about it,, they are questioning the wisdom of moving up and giving up lots of picks to get either guy. (of course, to you that may be freaking out, not sure)
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
If he comes in and sits behind hoyer for a year or two he will become a stud. He made his team win games. They are a crappy team but he caries them on his shoulders and they won games they shouldn't have. Yes he had a few bad games here and there but it was mostly because his WR's have trouble getting open consistantly and his o-line is not that great. It's not from a mental break down like it is with carr for example.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
He is intriguing in some ways. His arm is strong enough. He can move in the pocket. He has a quick release. He has pretty good size.
On the other hand, he has some real issues. His release point is way too low and he will get a lot of passes tipped or blocked at the next level. He gets happy feet at times. While he is mobile in the pocket, he becomes inaccurate when having to scramble. He really needs to reset his feet. My biggest beef is that he forces the ball into tight windows and I feel he will be intercepted a lot in the NFL. You have to remember that he has played against inferior competition. The NFL coverages are way more sophisticated and the defenders break on the ball much faster.
I wouldn't mind having him as a back-up and a way-down-the-road starter if we already were set at qb for the next 4-5 years, but the reality of the situation is that our QB position is not settled.
We are in excellent position to draft a franchise qb. We may not be in this position again. People are complaining about giving up too much to move from 4 to 2, while we have all kinds of extra picks. What will it cost us if we have to move up from 15--20 and be w/out extra picks?
Do you really want to take a flyer like we did w/Colt or Frye and hope they work out, or do you want to suck it up and take the highest rated qbs in this draft? I think it is a no-brainer, but for some odd reason, it seems like most of the board doesn't agree.
The killer is that when those same people defended Chud, the first thing they brought up was what coach could win w/our QBs? Interesting..........very interesting, indeed!
I like that you have studied him some. You have a valid complaint and his sometimes low release point. I don't think he will have batted balls at all though. His throwing motion is so darn fast that they just can't react fast enough. He has been learning the QB position from an nfl trainer since he was a sophmore in highschool. His mechanics are solid.
an interesting quote:
At Eastern Illinois, Garoppolo orchestrates an offense similar to the spread attack run by Baylor coach Art Briles. Panthers headman Dino Babers, a former assistant for the Bears under Briles from 2008-11, has been impressed with the way Garoppolo operates his up-tempo scheme. Babers calls him the second-best quarterback he's ever coached, behind only Robert Griffin III. "[Garoppolo] is one of the best I've ever had at being able to take that information, digest it and put it on the football field without ever having practiced it," Babers said.
I want you to think about what Farmer has said is the MOST important thing in a QB. How fast can he process information and get rid of the ball in 2.5 seconds. His teammates would die for him they love him so much.
What he describes as the perfect QB is actually Jimmy Garoppolo.
Jimmy is not a longshot. He is the real deal and the best QB in this draft. He also has the physical and mental toughness to be the best QB we have ever had.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
no way in heck does Haslam let Farmer pick someone other than Manziel if he is there at 4... no way..
Haslam wants wins.. but at the end of the day.. its about $$$ for guys like him. Manziel would bring a RAPID INCREASE in "dollaz" for the organization in all sorts of ways...
Quote: no way in heck does Haslam let Farmer pick someone other than Manziel if he is there at 4... no way..
Haslam wants wins.. but at the end of the day.. its about $$$ for guys like him. Manziel would bring a RAPID INCREASE in "dollaz" for the organization in all sorts of ways...
I buy that completely.
I'm just hoping someone removes the option. I don't want to end up with Bortles,either, but my unsubstantiated inkling says he's not on our radar.
Quote: Indeed it was a complaint. Guess after all these years of being a Brown's fan, I'm just getting sick of the 'talk' and sick of the promises made but never unfolding or panning out from players, coaches, front office, etc... Jimmy sumed my feelings up well when he said "talk is cheap", cause he just has no idea how much talked we've endured. Talk talk talk, whatever happened to shutting up your pieholes and just DOING it? At 29 years old, am I too old fashioned?
I wouldn't say you are too old fashioned, just off base a little. This guy isn't even on our team yet, he was asked a question about being drafted by a bad team. He said he would turn that team into a winner... I'm pretty sure he would have said that about whatever team they asked him about.
I personally love is style. Any QB being discussed as a top 5 pick needs to know they are being viewed as the savior of the franchise.. so embrace it.
I love the different attitudes toward coaches and players... if a guy is more cerebral and soft-spoken, some people love it and some people hate it, they want fire and emotion... if a guy is outspoken and cocky, some people love it and some people hate it, they want a guy to just shut up and produce... I get it. I have said for a long time that this team needs a serious infusion of "attitude"... if Manziel can bring some of that, I would view it as a good thing... but in the end, his success will be based on his ability to back it up with his play...
Very impressive. I really like his pocket awareness and escapability. Surprisingly mobile for his size. Good size and great arm strength & accuracy. Seems to read the field well with a real ability to read defenses. Stands in and will take a hit while delivering a strike. Could have used more help from his receivers, and you have to question whether all these attributes carry over to the NFL given his level of college competition, but at first glance he appears to be the real deal. Nice find, Peen! Seriously worth a look and I hope Farmer & Co have him on their radar.
Quote: if a guy is more cerebral and soft-spoken, some people love it and some people hate it, they want fire and emotion... if a guy is outspoken and cocky, some people love it and some people hate it, they want a guy to just shut up and produce... I get it.
100% on the money, it's a matter of interpretation. See I think you can exude confidence, leadership and etc and not come off cocky sounding.
Quote:
I have said for a long time that this team needs a serious infusion of "attitude"... if Manziel can bring some of that, I would view it as a good thing... but in the end, his success will be based on his ability to back it up with his play...
For sure man. No argument. With that said, a big head in the locker room and abundance of arrogance can also be a bad thing.
Quote: See I think you can exude confidence, leadership and etc and not come off cocky sounding.
I agree but a lot of it is preconceived.. if Cam Newton and Russell Wilson both had interviews and both said exactly the same thing, some would view Cam as cocky and Wilson as confidant.. just because of what they already think about those players.. I think that holds true a lot with Manziel... no matter what he says, some people already don't like him so they will take it the way they want to take it.. others love him so the flip side is also true.
Quote: With that said, a big head in the locker room and abundance of arrogance can also be a bad thing.
Absolutely.. I don't think an abundance of arrogance is ever a good thing.. you can get away with it for a while if your play/numbers match it.. but if they don't you will get called on it very quickly.
Nice find! He will go in the 4th - 5th I think; with tape like that he got somebody's attention.
What would you say his biggest hurdle will be entering the NFL? Level of Competition?
I've never watched the kid play but according to the draft scouting reports I've read, his biggest hurdle seems to be that he's a touch slow in his decision making process and getting the ball out so he takes a lot of hits and throws late too often.
Quote: I've never watched the kid play but according to the draft scouting reports I've read, his biggest hurdle seems to be that he's a touch slow in his decision making process and getting the ball out so he takes a lot of hits and throws late too often.
For some reason that sounds very familiar?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Quote: I've never watched the kid play but according to the draft scouting reports I've read, his biggest hurdle seems to be that he's a touch slow in his decision making process and getting the ball out so he takes a lot of hits and throws late too often.
For some reason that sounds very familiar?
Yes it does.. which is why you don't draft him and expect him to play day 1.... Given a few years on the bench and working in spot duty and really being able to understand the offense would be invaluable for a kid like this..
I agree that the kid could be a steal, he has all of the physical tools. I bet the decision making is the reason his draft stock is low.. I mean if you struggle to read defenses and make decisions against the complicated and speedy defenses of Monmouth, Dartmouth and Penn... then you have a big transition to the NFL.. Might be worth a late shot though...
If we take Kelvin Benjamin with a 1st round pick, we'll regret it. That guy is a 3rd rounder. If he wasn't 6'5 no one would think he was a 1st round pick.
I don't want Kelvin Benjamin either, but if he ends up as Plaxico Burress isn't that pretty good? (The answer is yes, as long as he doesn't shoot himself in the leg and end up in jail because of it.)
Quote: If we take Kelvin Benjamin with a 1st round pick, we'll regret it. That guy is a 3rd rounder. If he wasn't 6'5 no one would think he was a 1st round pick.
He is Plaxico Burres at best.
I don't think he's even that good. I look for a playoff team to take a flier in the 2nd on him.
I'm telling you all the best WR in the class is Beckham IMO. I haven't seen a guy with his type of ability since Harvin and I think he could be better. Pound for pound he is the best at jump ball situations in the class, most dynamic, well built, dual usage as a KR and just a great all around WR. If he wants to he will tear it up in the NFL.
I hope to god he doesn't fly in his 40 and go before 26 like I expect. He plays at 4.3 speed. Man he would be prefect with Gordon.
Quote: I've never watched the kid play but according to the draft scouting reports I've read, his biggest hurdle seems to be that he's a touch slow in his decision making process and getting the ball out so he takes a lot of hits and throws late too often.
For some reason that sounds very familiar?
Yes it does.. which is why you don't draft him and expect him to play day 1.... Given a few years on the bench and working in spot duty and really being able to understand the offense would be invaluable for a kid like this..
I have said this for years. I preached it the past two years in regards to Weeden. So many were saying how Norv would magically transform him into a good qb, and I continually said.............you don't teach reading coverages.
Do not ever draft "football dumb" QBs. Draft "football smart" QBs like Teddy and Manziel.
I think you confused what most of us were saying. If anyone can turn Weeden into a QB it would be Norv lol. You were just one of the few that said he sucks and will suck no matter what.
Hard to be confused after all the names some of the guys called me. LOL
I did say he would always suck. You don't teach reading coverages. You can teach footwork, mechanics, reading defenses pre-snap, etc.......but, reading coverages and throwing w/anticipation are God-given gifts.
He is intriguing in some ways. His arm is strong enough. He can move in the pocket. He has a quick release. He has pretty good size.
On the other hand, he has some real issues. His release point is way too low and he will get a lot of passes tipped or blocked at the next level. He gets happy feet at times. While he is mobile in the pocket, he becomes inaccurate when having to scramble. He really needs to reset his feet. My biggest beef is that he forces the ball into tight windows and I feel he will be intercepted a lot in the NFL. You have to remember that he has played against inferior competition. The NFL coverages are way more sophisticated and the defenders break on the ball much faster.
I wouldn't mind having him as a back-up and a way-down-the-road starter if we already were set at qb for the next 4-5 years, but the reality of the situation is that our QB position is not settled.
We are in excellent position to draft a franchise qb. We may not be in this position again. People are complaining about giving up too much to move from 4 to 2, while we have all kinds of extra picks. What will it cost us if we have to move up from 15--20 and be w/out extra picks?
Do you really want to take a flyer like we did w/Colt or Frye and hope they work out, or do you want to suck it up and take the highest rated qbs in this draft? I think it is a no-brainer, but for some odd reason, it seems like most of the board doesn't agree.
The killer is that when those same people defended Chud, the first thing they brought up was what coach could win w/our QBs? Interesting..........very interesting, indeed!
Vers this post is spot on. I agree with everthing you wrote.
I really like Watkins but I would not take him at the expense of taking a possible francise QB. Could Bridgewter, Manziel, and Bortles bust? Yes. But, so could any player we draft. The reality is if the QB we draft is a francise QB the team will no longer be selecting in the top 10. More than likely they will be battling for playoff spots for the next decade. No other player we draft can give the team that chance.
Garopolo is an interesting QB but will be a much better option for a team like New England and Denver. He has the tools to develop in a really good QB where he can sit and learn then take over. The Browns do not have the luck to be in that position right now.
The Browns must come out of this draft with Bridgwater, Manziel, or Bortles. I am just hoping they do not have to use the #26 pick to get one.
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