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You're the One 
lol 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
" it is a pretty good bet Bridgewater won't be there when we select at #4, it is moronic for one to say Bridgewater and pick 26 is better than Watkins and Carr. Really? I doubt that anybody could figure that out."
===================================================
Moronic hey?
Let us review. Bridgewater is a better QB prospect than Carr. You want to argue that ?
By all accounts this is a very deep draft in receivers. Do you agree or disagree? Will there be a good receiver available at 26?
Do the Browns have other needs that could be addressed at 26? Even if you take BPA?
Think what you want to think.\
The gap between Bridgewater and Carr is, IMO, much bigger than the gap between Watkins and the top WR that would available at 26. I think this is what you're getting at.
To me (Bridgewater + WR @ 26) > (Watkins + Carr).
And I am not hell bent on a WR in the 1st, period.
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Greg Cosell Says “This is Not Considered a Very Good Quarterback Draft” Audio Link
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Quote:
You're the One
lol
LOL Yup, that would be me
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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What I think is a really good interview with George Whitfield Jr. (Manziel's personal QB coach) on Kiley and Booms this morning. Audio Link
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Quote:
Quote:
" it is a pretty good bet Bridgewater won't be there when we select at #4, it is moronic for one to say Bridgewater and pick 26 is better than Watkins and Carr. Really? I doubt that anybody could figure that out."
===================================================
Moronic hey?
Let us review. Bridgewater is a better QB prospect than Carr. You want to argue that ?
By all accounts this is a very deep draft in receivers. Do you agree or disagree? Will there be a good receiver available at 26?
Do the Browns have other needs that could be addressed at 26? Even if you take BPA?
Think what you want to think.\
The gap between Bridgewater and Carr is, IMO, much bigger than the gap between Watkins and the top WR that would available at 26. I think this is what you're getting at.
To me (Bridgewater + WR @ 26) > (Watkins + Carr).
And I am not hell bent on a WR in the 1st, period.
I like Watkins + OT at 26 (Schwartz moves inside) + Hoyer better than Bridgewater + WR @26 .... Just my 2 cents!
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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I prefer....
Really good player @ #4
&
Another really good player @ #26
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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So you are basing that Hoyer will be the better long term answer at the QB position than a highly rated draft prospect in Bridgewater based an a little over 2 games where he played average ball, but not spectacular?
I'm not saying you're wrong, but a lot of people have made such assumptions based an such small sample sizes before and have been dead wrong far more often than they've been right.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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If you can grab a guy in tye 2nd-3rd round and let him sit. Then if Hoyer doesn't work out boom the new kid gets to start in 2015 and wear brand new uniforms to boot! 
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
If you can grab a guy in tye 2nd-3rd round and let him sit. Then if Hoyer doesn't work out boom the new kid gets to start in 2015 and wear brand new uniforms to boot!
If the answer to finding a franchise QB was as simple as just "grabbing a guy", I'd say you may be onto something.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Im just saying in response to people saying to go with Hoyer.
If you're going with Hoyer this year. Get him some weapons in the first round (maybe some D help too)
Then you find someone you like in the 2-3 round area, let him sit, bring in Grossman in case Hoyer misses time. Let the young guy sit
If you find out Hoyer isn't the guy with a bigger sample size. You go with the young guy.
Examples
4. Watkins or Mack
26. Shazier or Matthews
Then in the 2nd maybe Carr falls there. Or you like a guy like Mettenburg in the 3rd.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Manziel - insane pocket presence and "game" - but not sure his game translates to the NFL. Plus there is enormous risk on his height and frame. I see him getting hurt. Therefore reach/liability at #4.
Bridgewater - good skillset - "NFL Ready" according to many - but he's more slender than Manziel and I don't see a "superstar" here. Could he be better than Hoyer after 2+ years? Maybe. Probably? Worth the #4? Not IMO. This would be drafting for a perceived NEED and not BPA.
Bortles - Not NFL ready so something of a project to take at #4. Love the physical side of what I see. I am not convinced about the mental side. Is he smart enough? Somewhat of a project - but of the 3 I think the most chance of being special the most - but in 2 or 3 years.
Carr - Too many issues and inflated stats based on huge % of screen passes and 1-5 yard passes .... Pass.
Hoyer - Turned a stagnant team around and showed me in a short time that he was something of a leader. Fast release and good read on defenses for the most part. I don't think I could have expected him to play better in the 2 games he played given [1] the team [2] situation [3] looked much better week 2 so showed measurable improvement with an extra week of prep and practice with first team........ I do NOT see the Holcolm - Anderson stare down, and unable to read a defense syndrome. Have faith that he is at LEAST an average NFL QB (which would make him the best Browns QB since 1999) and has a chance to be good or better.
Hoyer + 2 elite WR's and a very good TE (AND one BPA at 26). . . . I see as explosive. Game changing. Franchise changing.
Rookie QB + Gordon and Good Rookie WR and VG TE . . . . I see 6-10.... and who knows in years 2 and 3.
WR is "deep" this year, but when you pick the 4th or 5th best WR at #26 .... the drop off from Watkins is enormous.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Quote:
Manziel - insane pocket presence and "game" - but not sure his game translates to the NFL. Plus there is enormous risk on his height and frame. I see him getting hurt. Therefore reach/liability at #4.
Can't remember who it was critiquing Manziel last week but they were going through game film and pointed something out...much of the time, Manziel does not progress through his reads like other QBs...he was looking for one receiver and if that receiver was not open, Manziel took off running.
They pointed out that Manziel started this bad habit in HS and his college coaches were unable to break him of it. Getting Manziel to stay in the pocket and go through his reads before he takes off running, is going to be a hard habit to break him of.
Running QB who reach the NFL...they run until they can't run...for example, RGIII and Hoyer.
If Bridgewater and Bortles are gone by the time the Browns pick...the Browns should take Watkins or trade down and accumulate more picks.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Can't remember who it was critiquing Manziel last week
Jaworski?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Quote:
Running QB who reach the NFL...they run until they can't run...for example, RGIII and Hoyer.
Hoyer? 
In his final 2 years at Michigan State he was credited with 105 rushes (remember sacks count as rushes)... for -200 yards... so most of them had to be sacks...
Andrew Luck on the other hand in his final 2 seasons at Stanford had 102 rushes for over 600 yards... so most of them had to be runs...
I'm not sure why, given all of the QBs in the NFL you could have used as an example, you chose Hoyer... he is not a running QB...
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Bridgewater - good skillset - "NFL Ready" according to many - but he's more slender than Manziel and I don't see a "superstar" here. Could he be better than Hoyer after 2+ years? Maybe. Probably? Worth the #4? Not IMO. This would be drafting for a perceived NEED and not BPA.
What I saw in Hoyer is a guy who "gets it" but I didn't see some "great QB play". What it did show is that we have the talent to win with at least average QB play. You can say what you wish, but his stats and what I saw had nothing to do with anything I would consider elite.
We have seen better QB play in a limited window from guys like Holcomb. But what happens when teams get game film and game plan for such QB's? Often time that changes a lot of what a "limited perception" people get from such a small window of game play.
And Bridgewater. While you may not see "superstar here", you gave no reasoning for that other than his slender frame. But it does beg to question..... Isn't every QB's goal to be the most NFL ready QB in their draft? Isn't that what they strive for? I believe the obvious answer is yes. That reward is to be the #1 QB and most valued QB in your draft class.
So it appears obvious to me, that out of all of the QB's in this class,Bridgewater is the only QB who had the talent and mental ability to achieve that goal. I haven't seen a single weakness in his game that would keep his potential anything but high in regards to being an elite NFL QB.
I would really be interested in what you feel his weaknesses are and your reasoning for feeling the way you do about his limitations. Because for the life of me I can't find them.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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J/C
Finally got the opportunity to do some research on Manziel.
I like him.
When I hear people say things about a QB such as;his antenna are always up,most mentally aware QB I've seen,mental quickness,will to win,I get interested.
I see him in the mold of Montana and Favre(minus the cannon).It was the above qualities that made them great.
His shortcoming,and the only thing that would make me a bit leery of drafting him,is his immaturity.I'm not talking about the brashness,or the bold statements,hell I like that.I'm wondering just how long it's going to take for him to understand what he needs to do to succeed from here on out.
I sure as hell wouldn't mind watching him mature in a Browns uni.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Quote:
Quote:
Running QB who reach the NFL...they run until they can't run...for example, RGIII and Hoyer.
Hoyer?
In his final 2 years at Michigan State he was credited with 105 rushes (remember sacks count as rushes)... for -200 yards... so most of them had to be sacks...
Andrew Luck on the other hand in his final 2 seasons at Stanford had 102 rushes for over 600 yards... so most of them had to be runs...
I'm not sure why, given all of the QBs in the NFL you could have used as an example, you chose Hoyer... he is not a running QB...
dc...let me see if I can simplify it for you.
The subject Johnny Manziel..QBs who run in the NFL are at a higher risk of getting themselves hurt at some point...for example RGIII, a NFL rookie QB who did a lot of running at the college level, didn't make it a full season without suffering a serious injury. He learned the hard way.
...what was Hoyer doing when he got hurt?
He ended his season in the 1st qtr of the 5th game of the season and he did not need to run the ball.
I wish Hoyer had just thrown the ball away instead of running for the first down. In the NFL, sooner of later, bad things seem to happen to QBs who run.
The team that drafts the great running QB, Johnny Manziel, should know that he is going to need a lot of coaching, to brake his bad habits.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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All Pro
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What were Tom Brady and Carson Palmer doing?
Wise words spoken by sages
From SkyTel to BlackBerry pagers
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You're stuck on me calling Hoyer elite ... which is not what i said at all.
As far as Bridgewater.... skinny frame is enough for me to be worried about the value at #4. He might be the best his year - or most NFL ready. Does that mean he is the BPA at #4 when we draft? Is that your opinion? Do you think Teddy will have a better NFL career than Watkins? Mack? Robinson? Mathews? Clowney? ... I'd take any one of them ahead of Teddy.
How does he compare to Luck, RGIII and Tannerhill? How about Newton, Locker, Gabbert and Ponder? He might be the best this year - but it's regarded as a weka QB class.....
All speculation - but I have answered your questions.... tell me if Teddy is the BPA at 4?
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Quote:
" it is a pretty good bet Bridgewater won't be there when we select at #4, it is moronic for one to say Bridgewater and pick 26 is better than Watkins and Carr. Really? I doubt that anybody could figure that out."
===================================================
Moronic hey?
Let us review. Bridgewater is a better QB prospect than Carr. You want to argue that ?
By all accounts this is a very deep draft in receivers. Do you agree or disagree? Will there be a good receiver available at 26?
Do the Browns have other needs that could be addressed at 26? Even if you take BPA?
Think what you want to think.\
You misunderstand my point.
Quote:
Let us review. Bridgewater is a better QB prospect than Carr. You want to argue that ?
No, I agree. Again, I don't think Teddy gets to #4.....we'll have to move up to get him, thus, it is moronic to say Teddy and #26 is better....I agree it is better, but I doubt it happens. I am sure frogs wished that also had wings so they could jump and fly.
It would be great if Bridgewater was there at #4. I just think we will have to trade up to get him, and that will eliminate the #26 pick.
Understand?
Do we need to "review" further? If we decide we want Teddy, I don't feel, or feel comfortable we can hope he falls to #4. My feeling is we better reach out and get him.
If we wait, we probably end up with Derrick Carr at #26.....and might even have to jump up to get him.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Well Mac, we are old guys. The QB position is changing...QBs staying in the pocket is about over.
Just saying. It's the way the NFL is evolving. It has to. The NFL uses colleges as it's minor league system, and college QBs are throw away QBs....you only have them 4-5 years at best, then you plug in the next guy. High Schools produce spread option QBs, the colleges go with that and just refine that skill. If the guy gets hurt, toss him aside and plug in the next guy....and on it goes.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
I wish Hoyer had just thrown the ball away instead of running for the first down. In the NFL, sooner of later, bad things seem to happen to QBs who run.
I wish Gordon had caught the deep slant that Hoyer placed perfectly for what would easily had been a 90 yard Touchdown on the first drive. The game would of been completely different...
I wish Kiko Alanso knew how to fricken tackle...
But yeah, blame Hoyer for getting a first down.. AND SLIDING...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
The QB position is changing...QBs staying in the pocket is about over.
Same thing was said when Randall Cunningham joined the league.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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The QB position is evolving. It's not a prediction anymore. It's already happening.
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Quote:
The QB position is evolving. It's not a prediction anymore. It's already happening.
This topic would be a great debate thread...the future of the QB position. I disagree that it's evolving dramatically...at least at this point.
The question I tend to think about is the need for an offensive line evolving to adapt to the faster, stronger DL.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Quote:
The QB position is evolving. It's not a prediction anymore. It's already happening.
Thank you. Five or six years ago when I said this was the route that would be taken people could question it, but it is past that point....faster than I thought to be honest. I thought it would take another few years
I have always been good in spotting trends. I have done it in investing for a long time. It's easier in sports. Especially sports like football who don't even try to train players the way they want the game to be played like is done in baseball and hockey. Those are the only sports to really run minor league programs and try to develop players for their system.
Here is another trend I see....I don't think NFL owners really like paying QBs mega millions. I think the NFL QB is headed towards the throw away position much as the runningback has. As the spread guys grow in to the league, it is bound to happen.
The new to be super premium position is corner. Guys who can cover are soon to be the top paid players in the league.
LT's are going to drop in premium since you don't need somebody to cover some lead footed QB's blind side as much as before.
If this was investing, buy stock in corners who can cover and provide run support..
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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i can settle this debate, i created Manziel on madden, gave him all 99s and he led us to the superbowl...and won LOL
seriously, I think he has boom or bust talents. Teddy to me is the most nfl ready, but that doesnt mean he has to be the day one starter. sit him behind hoyer, let him bulk up, and learn the playbook. watch tape and work on his game for a year. Sammy Watkins is going to be a good WR? all signs point to that but look what happened to B-Easy. had tons of potential but never lived up to it. Not trying to say Watkins is Edwards 2.0 just saying its all a crapshoot.
I cant wait til FA starts so we can see what our needs going into the draft will be. we are too far from the draft to speculate on who is or who isnt going to be good. Whomever we pick will have my full support, GO BROWNS
#brownsgoodkarma
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It would be an interesting thread that maybe would not get heated. It might produce intelligent conversation. I would reply in-depth if you start one.
I wasn't trying to imply that it was evolving dramatically, but I do think it is already in the process of evolving.
Guys like Rodgers, Wilson, Big Ben, Kapernick, Newton, Luck, RGIII can all move in the pocket. Most of them do a good job of keeping their eyes downfield and make plays in the passing game after they scramble behind the LOS.
Yeah, some of them run more than others, but I am just talking about buying time in the pocket by avoiding the rush and then having the ability to pass first and run second. You mentioned the bigger, stronger, faster defenses and I think this added mobility is really an asset to offenses.
It used to be guys were either a running qb or a passing qb. Now, we got guys like I mentioned earlier who can do both.
If I were drafting a QB, I would be looking for a guy who can do both. Teddy is the best example of that. Bortles is pretty darn good, too. Manziel can pass on the run and from the pocket, but he does run a bit more than I personally like.
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Quote:
I wish Kiko Alanso knew how to fricken tackle...
But yeah, blame Hoyer for getting a first down.. AND SLIDING...
Just my opinion - but Hoyer's slide was horrible. A baseball slide and he hurt himself. The damage was almost entirely his own fault and nothing to do with Kiko, who didn't do anything wrong... If Hoyer had slid properly (both feet forward) he'd have been fine.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Hoyer's slide was horrible, but the guy hit him helmet to helmet just as he was sliding across the turf. That's wrong in most games. Can you imagine if they did that to Brady?
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i think it was a clean hit, and a freak injury. JMO
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Quote:
Quote:
I wish Kiko Alanso knew how to fricken tackle...
But yeah, blame Hoyer for getting a first down.. AND SLIDING...
Just my opinion - but Hoyer's slide was horrible. A baseball slide and he hurt himself. The damage was almost entirely his own fault and nothing to do with Kiko, who didn't do anything wrong... If Hoyer had slid properly (both feet forward) he'd have been fine.
Yeah, I'm sure that had nothing to do with it...
Watch the video.. Hoyer is sliding like any other QB until Alanso gets involved...
Theres no such thing as a "clean" hit on a QB that's sliding... that's the whole point of the slide...
Last edited by ThatGuy; 02/28/14 11:55 PM.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Good pic and that is exactly what I was trying to say earlier. He hit him helmet to helmet after he was sliding.
There is no doubt about that.
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Good pic and that is exactly what I was trying to say earlier. He hit him helmet to helmet after he was sliding.
There is no doubt about that.
Not to mention that a QB who is sliding is supposed to be off limits as soon as he gives himself up.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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So you are basing that Hoyer will be the better long term answer at the QB position than a highly rated draft prospect in Bridgewater based an a little over 2 games where he played average ball, but not spectacular?
I'm not saying you're wrong, but a lot of people have made such assumptions based an such small sample sizes before and have been dead wrong far more often than they've been right.
Not to mention Hoyer will be playing in a brand new system. Has he ever played in the West Coast? LOTS of learning to do between now and September.
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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Posts: 5,915 |
I don't know if Manziel can play in and survive the NFL. He may well be a franchise QB. But MAN is he small. Colt McCoy is huge in comparison and he couldn't stay healthy. I won't be shocked if Manziel succeeds, but I won't be surprised if he gets injured a lot and isn't on the field much. We shall see....
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 Johnny Manziel (Again)
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