|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,090
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,090 |
Quote:
So you are basing that Hoyer will be the better long term answer at the QB position than a highly rated draft prospect in Bridgewater based an a little over 2 games where he played average ball, but not spectacular?
I'm not saying you're wrong, but a lot of people have made such assumptions based an such small sample sizes before and have been dead wrong far more often than they've been right.
If he's there at 4 I think you gotta take him. I just don't think he'll be there and I think the cost of moving up might be heavy... we'll see.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,901
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,901 |
Quote:
What were Tom Brady and Carson Palmer doing?
TI84+....thank you...great example of what I'm trying to say...QBs who do what QBs are hired to do...pass the football...seem to have long, productive careers.
Brady is starting his 15th season, still playing at a high level and Carson Palmer will be starting his 11th season after leading the Cardinals to a 10-6 record.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,671
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,671 |
Quote:
Hoyer's slide was horrible, but the guy hit him helmet to helmet just as he was sliding across the turf. That's wrong in most games. Can you imagine if they did that to Brady?
So helmet to helmet caused his knee injury?
The more things change the more they stay the same.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,671
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,671 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I wish Kiko Alanso knew how to fricken tackle...
But yeah, blame Hoyer for getting a first down.. AND SLIDING...
Just my opinion - but Hoyer's slide was horrible. A baseball slide and he hurt himself. The damage was almost entirely his own fault and nothing to do with Kiko, who didn't do anything wrong... If Hoyer had slid properly (both feet forward) he'd have been fine.
Yeah, I'm sure that had nothing to do with it...
Watch the video.. Hoyer is sliding like any other QB until Alanso gets involved...
Theres no such thing as a "clean" hit on a QB that's sliding... that's the whole point of the slide...
Sorry - Could not disagree more. Thats the first time I saw the play again since the week it happened ... but its just as I remember. Hoyers slide is the reason he hurt HIMSELF. He got his one leg caught under his other leg like a BASEBALL slide. That's the ONLY reason he hurt himself. Kiko didn't try and injure him. It was a bang bang play.
The photo makes it look bad - but you have to watch the video.
Sure - Kiko falling on him added to the misery. But the CAUSE of the injury was the baseball slide. If Hoyer slides properly Kiko's tackle/hit does absolutely nothing.
That's My opinion and its shared with nearly every Browns fan I have spoken to about it.... "That's Football" ... if you think that was a malicious or pre-meditated hit and should have been a flag - I think you're version of what football is differs from mine and apparently the NFL.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205 |
Ir was a late, awkward slide, IIRC. The tackler appeared to launch as Hoyer was going into his slide. Usually if a tackler launches before a slide, you'll see them fly over the QB. In this case, their helmets clashed, which tells me the defender saw Hoyer slide and meant to get in a lick anyway. Surprisingly enough, there was no flag ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,218
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,218 |
Wow, I bet all that helmet contact REALLY torn his knee up!
The helmet-to-helmet contact in meaningless; like mgh88 pointed out, Hoyer hurt HIMSELF.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
From what I see in that vid, the slide wasn't good but it was the sudden change in direction that caused his leg to fold underneath him. Without the hit, I think he comes up fine. Whatever slight contact there may have been with the helmet didn't appear to be a factor.
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205 |
Don't remember seeing that angle before - not much helmet contact at all, so I was mistaken. It still appears to me that he intended to hit a sliding QB, which should have been roughing. And Gipson's hit on Jermichael Finley had less helmet contact than this one (ie, none) - and Gipson got flagged.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 252
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 252 |
Quote:
Wow, I bet all that helmet contact REALLY torn his knee up!
The helmet-to-helmet contact in meaningless; like mgh88 pointed out, Hoyer hurt HIMSELF.
I don't for a minute believe his meaning was that the helmet-to-helmet hit was the cause, but that just added to the fact it was a bad hit... and I do not believe that Hoyer hurt himself... it's one thing taking a bad slide on your own, but add the weight of a player in a full sprint on top of him....
It's more than obvious... are you guys sure you're watching the same play?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 16,038
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 16,038 |
Quote:
Wow, I bet all that helmet contact REALLY torn his knee up!
The helmet-to-helmet contact in meaningless; like mgh88 pointed out, Hoyer hurt HIMSELF.
So what your saying is..lf Hoyer wasn't in a violent collision with the weight of a 200# defender including a helmet to helmet blow during his slide, he would have sustained the injury anyways. I doubt it.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,705
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,705 |
The hit should've been a flag for hitting a sliding QB and/or helmet to helmet. Our defenders were flagged for much less.
The hit probably contributed to Hoyer getting injured, but if you're going to slide like a goof, you're opening yourself up to this type of injury. Seriously, this wasn't the first time a QB got while sliding. Hoyer's a smart guy, he's gotta protect himself.
Does Hoyer get hurt if Alonso wasn't a jerk? Maybe not.
Does Hoyer get hurt if he slides properly? Definitely not.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,671
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,671 |
Quote:
but if you're going to slide like a goof, you're opening yourself up to this type of injury. Seriously, this wasn't the first time a QB got while sliding. Hoyer's a smart guy, he's gotta protect himself.
Does Hoyer get hurt if Alonso wasn't a jerk? Maybe not.
Does Hoyer get hurt if he slides properly? Definitely not.
Says it all as succinctly as possible.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,829
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,829 |
Quote:
You're stuck on me calling Hoyer elite ... which is not what i said at all.
Not so much elite, but more so basing that he can be our franchise QB based on a very small sample size.
Quote:
As far as Bridgewater.... skinny frame is enough for me to be worried about the value at #4. He might be the best his year - or most NFL ready. Does that mean he is the BPA at #4 when we draft? Is that your opinion? Do you think Teddy will have a better NFL career than Watkins? Mack? Robinson? Mathews? Clowney? ... I'd take any one of them ahead of Teddy.
I believe that Bridgewater is the one player in the draft who can have the biggest impact to make our team better and win more games. So yes, for the Browns I would consider him the best BPA.
Vers has posted how EVERY QB, yes even luck, had weaknesses described in their draft evaluations. I don't recall "skinny frame" as a true knock on a QB. But if that's what you're going with......
Quote:
How does he compare to Luck, RGIII and Tannerhill? How about Newton, Locker, Gabbert and Ponder? He might be the best this year - but it's regarded as a weka QB class.....
I have him rated slightly lower than Luck and well ahead of RG3. Last year was considered a weak QB class.
Quote:
All speculation - but I have answered your questions.... tell me if Teddy is the BPA at 4?
I already did that above, but I'll expound.
No other player we could draft at #4 would have the impact and help us win more games than Bridgewater. None. If you don't consider that the BPA for "your team", then I simply have no clue what you consider BPA to be.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,671
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,671 |
Well - if we draft Teddy and he is anywhere remotely the QB Luck is (you have Teddy "slightly below Luck") ... then I would be ecstatic. I think Luck is the best QB I have seen come out of college since Manning, hands down. I'd give my right nut for Luck in a Browns Uniform.
I have not seen enough Teddy playing in games to critique him - 95% of what I have seen is highlight stuff. His skinny frame does worry me. . . . my biggest question for you (as you seem to know him well) is how football smart is he? AND ... if he is that good - he isn't likely to be there at #4 is he?
At this time I'd still take Watkins myself and stick to Hoyer, Watkins, OL upgrade is a bigger immediate impact than Rookie QB, 4th/5th best WR in the class and the same OL.I'll happily watch any links to footage on TB if you post it though.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Quote:
Hoyer's slide was horrible, but the guy hit him helmet to helmet just as he was sliding across the turf. That's wrong in most games. Can you imagine if they did that to Brady?
Thank you - somebody else saw that...I was saying it then from the replay they had of that from the sideline towards the field of play. From the middle of the field to the sideline it looks like a clean hit. But from the other side very visible.
I was going to quote and answer Mac when he stated how did HOYER get injured I was going to state from possibly one of the worst slides and it was on a Grass Field.
As for the changing of the O...I mostly see two things changing.
1. Quick Tempo - but the D will find a remedy they always do.
2. Spread Offense, that is the biggest change. WRs depth is much more prominent that DB depth. Add in the talented Miss Matching TEs. Pass catching RBs. Then you get an accurate passer who can run if the Defenses are playing MAN just another dimension that need to be defended. That is why a RG3 or a JM add Wilson, Kapernick n Cam are excellent QBs and are considered new style cause of that extra dimension. RG3 got hurt but I think Poppa Shanahan was a little desperate cause he saw Playoff maybe w/RG3 and another bad season without and a firing in the horizon. I think once the Ngata hit was made...they should have shut him down till he was 100% not put him back out there tied up with braces and glue! Every real football player will say - I CAN GO COACH!
The coach has to be the MATURE ONE. Its maybe the only thing I don't like about Kyle but I can't blame him too much cause a lot of it was Poppa Shanahan's decision. Hard to say NO to your Dad 
Teddy btw didn't run cause he didn't have to - but everybody turns their back on him going man...and he has a good gap to go...he can go its not like he's ELI, or Brady
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,901
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,901 |
Quote:
Well Mac, we are old guys. The QB position is changing...QBs staying in the pocket is about over.
Just saying. It's the way the NFL is evolving. It has to. The NFL uses colleges as it's minor league system, and college QBs are throw away QBs....you only have them 4-5 years at best, then you plug in the next guy. High Schools produce spread option QBs, the colleges go with that and just refine that skill. If the guy gets hurt, toss him aside and plug in the next guy....and on it goes.
Peen...Johnny Manziel sure was exciting in college...so was RGIII.
But as a rookie in the NFL, RGIII experienced first hand just how much NFL defenses have evolved compared to college defenses.
Defensive personnel in the NFL are more athletic, bigger, stronger and faster, than any defense RGIII of Manziel faced in college.
The pool of talent that NFL teams have to choose from continues to trend toward faster and quicker players, on both sides of the ball.
Using this years draft for example, here are the number of players at each defensive position who can match Manziel's speed and quickness.
Manziel ran a 4.68 at the combine...here are the number of defensive players at this years combine who matched Manziel's speed.
CB...99 ran 4.68 or faster
FS...49........"................
SS...49........"................
ILB...6 ran 4.68 or less...49 ran under 5.00
OLB...26 ran 4.68 or less...79 ran under 5.00
DE...7 ran 4.68 or faster...72 ran under 5.00
DT...1 ...... "................... 9 ....... ".............
Kind of shows what running QBs are up against at the Pro level. Every year, NFL teams are drafting defensive talent from a pool of players with speed and quickness that is equal to or better than Manziel.
Manziel's size must also be considered...at 6-0/207, his ability to take the punishment handed out to running QBs at the pro level should be a concern. If you are going to be a running QB in the Pros, you better have the smarts to get rid of the ball or know when to slide, like Russell Wilson...OR...you better have the body capable of taking the punishment, like Luck 6-4/240, Newton 6-5/245 and Kaepernick 6-5/235.
If a QB is going to run the ball at the NFL level, he needs to have the size and strength to endure the punishment and he needs to be smart enough to know when to throw the ball away so he doesn't have to risk injury running the ball or if he runs, know when to slide.
As for this "QB evolution" some are referring to...they must remember, there is a "counter evolution" taking place at the same time. Bigger, stronger and faster still applies in the NFL, at QB and every position on defense.
If the Browns do draft a QB, I hope he has the size of a Kaepernick or Luck...but not a "Johnny football".
jmho...mac
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,829
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,829 |
Quote:
I have not seen enough Teddy playing in games to critique him - 95% of what I have seen is highlight stuff. His skinny frame does worry me. . . .
I agree with you in terms of highlight films. They never give you a true picture.
Quote:
my biggest question for you (as you seem to know him well) is how football smart is he? AND ... if he is that good - he isn't likely to be there at #4 is he?
He is extremely football smart. If he weren't, he'd never be rated as high as I have him. That's why players like Weeden get drafted higher than they should and players like Rodgers fall. People often put far more consideration into the big arm, the big QB and overlook the smarts of a QB. IMO you can't teach reading D's pre snap or staying calm under pressure. Those are skills you have or you don't. Seeing a play develop or as they put it "when the game slows down for you" simply may never happen for QB's that don't have the football smarts.
Quote:
At this time I'd still take Watkins myself and stick to Hoyer, Watkins, OL upgrade is a bigger immediate impact than Rookie QB, 4th/5th best WR in the class and the same OL.I'll happily watch any links to footage on TB if you post it though.
I'm not a Watkins hater. I just believe with having Gordon, this is a very deep draft in skilled WR's. I believe a very good WR can be found in the late first or second where as you will find that far more difficult at the QB position. I just don't see "Megatron" in Watkins and that's what it would take for me to spend such a high draft pick on a WR.
I like what I saw in Hoyer and feel he's earned the right to compete for the staring QB position. I just simply feel it would be short sighted to put all of your eggs in one basket based on such a small sample size.
I'm not like some who advocate drafting more than one QB this high. To me, if you can't land Bridgewater, you don't invest that high at QB.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Quote:
Quote:
What were Tom Brady and Carson Palmer doing?
TI84+....thank you...great example of what I'm trying to say...QBs who do what QBs are hired to do...pass the football...seem to have long, productive careers.
I'm pretty sure you misunderstood
I assume he was referring to what Brady and Palmer were doing when they were both severely injured.
The answer. Is standing in the pocket.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 189
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 189 |
Quote:
The QB position is evolving. It's not a prediction anymore. It's already happening.
FWIW I hate the spread. But I'm old.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Quote:
Quote:
The QB position is evolving. It's not a prediction anymore. It's already happening.
FWIW I hate the spread. But I'm old.
Theres something to being able to grind down a team and win in the trenches etc.
But being able to throw the ball around and move the ball quickly is also a great skill..
I prefer balance...
I think Seattle has good balance..
I don't think Dever does. They can run the ball, but for example, when they blew the lead against NE, they were running the ball all over them in the first half, and then never really tried in the second half...
Balance is key...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
I don't like the Spread offense either. It hampers QBs when they come to the pros because they typically only have one read in college. That's why you see guys like Weeden bust when they are asked to read coverages and go through their progressions.
But, that isn't what I was talking about. I was talking about guys who can buy time in the pocket, keep their eyes down field and throws first---run second.
Have you ever been frustrated watching the Browns try to tackle Ben or Rodgers? Heck, Sanchez gave us fits a few years ago by shaking off tacklers and then throwing down the field.
I think the days of having a statue in the pocket are coming to an end.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 189
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 189 |
Quote:
I don't like the Spread offense either. It hampers QBs when they come to the pros because they typically only have one read in college. That's why you see guys like Weeden bust when they are asked to read coverages and go through their progressions.
But, that isn't what I was talking about. I was talking about guys who can buy time in the pocket, keep their eyes down field and throws first---run second.
Have you ever been frustrated watching the Browns try to tackle Ben or Rodgers? Heck, Sanchez gave us fits a few years ago by shaking off tacklers and then throwing down the field.
I think the days of having a statue in the pocket are coming to an end.
I agree with all that.( Bridgewater is the only one I hope for out of the top three) Justsaying the spread is watered down football to me, kind of a basketball version.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,342
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,342 |
Quote:
Wow, I bet all that helmet contact REALLY torn his knee up!
The helmet-to-helmet contact in meaningless; like mgh88 pointed out, Hoyer hurt HIMSELF.
Yep.
I don't know if they teach QB's a proper technique on sliding or not but his was all wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Not sure how much it changes now that Lombardi and Banner are gone. I think Manziel is Haslam's idea.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,901
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,901 |
Quote:
Not sure how much it changes now that Lombardi and Banner are gone. I think Manziel is Haslam's idea.
Erik...welcome to the board... 
You have a point...it might be Haslam who is most interested in Manziel...and hopefully the new coaching staff is willing to voice their opinion to the boss. Pettine puts me in mind of someone who has a pretty good handle on draft talent and more than willing to share his opinion with all involved.
Hopefully Haslam will not try to pull rank on Farmer, the scouts and coaches.
Last edited by mac; 03/02/14 08:35 AM.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,830
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,830 |
Quote:
Wow, I bet all that helmet contact REALLY torn his knee up!
The helmet-to-helmet contact in meaningless; like mgh88 pointed out, Hoyer hurt HIMSELF.
I don't know. I am not going to comment on the helmet to helmet because that clearly wasn't the reason Hoyer hurt his knee.
The slide was late, but it is my opinion that the hit changed Hoyers ability to slide properly and that is what caused his leg/knee to get up under him. Had he started the slide a split second sooner, I doubt he gets hurt.
I am not even saying it was a late hit or anything like that. The hit just before Hoyer would have been in a good sliding position caused his body to shift in to a bad position.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 919
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 919 |
Quote:
Quote:
Wow, I bet all that helmet contact REALLY torn his knee up!
The helmet-to-helmet contact in meaningless; like mgh88 pointed out, Hoyer hurt HIMSELF.
I don't know. I am not going to comment on the helmet to helmet because that clearly wasn't the reason Hoyer hurt his knee.
The slide was late, but it is my opinion that the hit changed Hoyers ability to slide properly and that is what caused his leg/knee to get up under him. Had he started the slide a split second sooner, I doubt he gets hurt.
I am not even saying it was a late hit or anything like that. The hit just before Hoyer would have been in a good sliding position caused his body to shift in to a bad position.
That was a close no call for a late hit. Hopefully a full recovery is in order and we can see what Hoyer can or can't do to lead this team to the playoffs.
GO BROWNS!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,671
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,671 |
Quote:
Quote:
Not sure how much it changes now that Lombardi and Banner are gone. I think Manziel is Haslam's idea.
Erik...welcome to the board...
You have a point...it might be Haslam who is most interested in Manziel...and hopefully the new coaching staff is willing to voice their opinion to the boss. Pettine puts me in mind of someone who has a pretty good handle on draft talent and more than willing to share his opinion with all involved.
Hopefully Haslam will not try to pull rank on Farmer, the scouts and coaches.
As much as I love watching JF play in his college games - and as much of a competitor as he is and undoubted college talent - I have decided I want no part of Johnny Football. Even at #26 I would pass on him. [1] I don't think his game translates to the NFL. You can't take off running as quickly as he does. I think its a combination of not being able to go through his progressions and his height. [2] If he cannot break his habit of a lifetime (scrambling to make plays) he's going to get injured.
I think JF is this years Brady Quinn.... he's going to fall.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Come on...have you NO IDEA on the extra pressure the hit...Helmet to Helmet just means it was an ILLEGAL hit that we got nothing from the NFL REFS!!! But it was right when his cleat got hung up with the force of a 230 lb LB running full speed on top of Hoyer momentum...could have been the difference of a 2-3 game sprain to the torn ACL needing surgery.
Man I can't believe you see that? I agree helmet to helmet or not had nothing to do with it except to show how we get jobbed by the refs regarding our QB and everyone else.
But the blow of the force at the exact moment of the cleat getting caught...true if he slid on his back more with the heals sliding on the ground much better... this was more like the slide and standing up at the bag slide where you put one leg under the body.
That's what happens when you learn as Tom Brady's back up who never ran and never slid to copy him...lol 
But the impact definitely had something to do with the severity of the injury. More likely than not.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,829
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,829 |
I can't say which way the hit impacted the injury. But I do remember thinking "ooh, that looks ugly and I think he's hurt" before the hit ever occurred.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 Johnny Manziel (Again)
|
|
